Well, there is a new thread that will be CONSISTENTLY UPDATED(I hope), so go there.

[trojanpooh]

If you ask me, it was stupid for any of the Melee characters to be dropped and we should bring back as many as possible. So Doc, Roy, and Pichu (T. Link is Young Link is spirit and Mewtwo can't be done well).

I know a lot of people don't like Pichu, but we have total control over how he turns out, so we can meld him to our liking.

I also support Bowser Jr.

 

[Slashy]

If you ask me, it was stupid for any of the Melee characters to be dropped and we should bring back as many as possible. So Doc, Roy, and Pichu (T. Link is Young Link is spirit and Mewtwo can't be done well).

I know a lot of people don't like Pichu, but we have total control over how she turns out, so we can meld her to our liking.

I also support Bowser Jr.

The point must be driven.

 

[Rudra]

Why are you guys discussing gender? I thought you were looking to add more changes to further differenciate Pichu? lol

Spoiler

I vote female anyways

A ground hit Dair that sends them up and/or combos into an fsmash.

So what happens should you hit with the aerial version instead of the grounded one? Will you keep Pikachu's original Aerial Dair trajectory or will that be changed?

EDIT: Also, I think I've though of something: Perhaps it could be changed that an aerial TJolt can knock the opponent up slightlyor ground them (like an insta-knockdown to set up a tech chase)? (Just throwing that out there)

 

[smashbro29]

I don't understand why we want smaller pikachu who damages himself.

 

[Roxas215]

I don't understand why we want smaller pikachu who damages himself.

I dont either but supposedly pichu will have distinct changes that separates her from pika. Like i said i could care less about pichu but if the coders promises it will be done right then let the pichu fans(all 3 of yall) have their fun.

 

[superyoshi888]

I don't understand why we want smaller pikachu who damages himself.

Why did we want a Doc who didn't have his tornado? Or a Roy that supposedly feels like Marth? Why do we want Bowser Jr. to be a clone of Bowser, which wouldn't be anything like how Bowser Jr. actually would fight? Or why would we want Bowser Jr. over the other Koopalings?

Seriously, get out if you won't help. This is for discussing how Pichu will be made, not why it should be in.

 

[smashbro29]

Why did we want a Doc who didn't have his tornado? Or a Roy that supposedly feels like Marth? Why do we want Bowser Jr. to be a clone of Bowser, which wouldn't be anything like how Bowser Jr. actually would fight? Or why would we want Bowser Jr. over the other Koopalings?

Seriously, get out if you won't help. This is for discussing how Pichu will be made, not why it should be in.

Because smash aside they MATTERED to their franchise.

 

[urdailywater]

I'd really like to see Pichu in. He's probably my favorite character in Melee. And would give me a reason to use brawl+

Are there any plans for making him damage himself through electric attacks? I couldn't really see this as possible, or wanted, but just wondering.

With the uair spike gone, it would make a thunder to uair combo really great(like mentioned), or maybe just any uair combo overall. It shouldn't send the opponent to high though obviously (I can't exactly remember how high it sends them in melee, but I might play sometime tonight and play pichu)

Pichu matters to the HeartGold and SoulSilver addition in Pokemon, and including the upcoming movie. Just saying. He's a pretty big character in 2nd gen (from what I've seen in the franchise at least). But yah, it's kind of stupid to discuss why he should or should not be in. He was in Melee, and as were the other characters that are trying to come back.

 

[superyoshi888]

Because smash aside they MATTERED to their franchise.

Roy was the main character of ONE game. Dr. Mario is just from a spin-off game. Bowser Jr. apparently doesn't matter that much, considering he isn't in NSMB Wii. Pichu, meanwhile, is the baby form of the mascot of the series, has the signature attack Volt Tackle(it only gets associated with Pika because of the anime), and plays a major role in HG/SS.

Of the four, I can only see Bowser Jr. being important besides Pichu.

 

[Roxas215]

Why did w)e want a Doc who didn't have his tornado? Or a Roy that supposedly feels like Marth? Why do we want Bowser Jr. to be a clone of Bowser, which wouldn't be anything like how Bowser Jr. actually would fight? Or why would we want Bowser Jr. over the other Koopalings?

Seriously, get out if you won't help. This is for discussing how Pichu will be made, not why it should be in.

Beacuse Roy actually mattered(also ic's only had one game too.) Doc actually mattered(there were way more doc mains then mario) Bowser Jr is just a idea thrown around and i think everyone would agree original chars are alot more entertaining then clones.

And the most important part. Pokemon already have 8 different reps. Pokemon has more then mario does.(including doc)

i
And why are u discussing nsmb wii? The game isn't out yet. How do you(or anyone) know who is in or out?

 

[Luur3]

Roy was the main character of ONE game. Dr. Mario is just from a spin-off game. Bowser Jr. apparently doesn't matter that much, considering he isn't in NSMB Wii. Pichu, meanwhile, is the baby form of the mascot of the series, has the signature attack Volt Tackle(it only gets associated with Pika because of the anime), and plays a major role in HG/SS.

Of the four, I can only see Bowser Jr. being important besides Pichu.

I'm gonna break this down a bit

Roy was the main character of ONE game

You can say the same about Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike (I'm just guessing on these 2, not a FE fan), and Toon/Young Link. Dont see why this matters

Dr. Mario is just from a spin-off game

Technically, Dr. Mario has had a few games, and a few appearences in other Mario games

Bowser Jr. apparently doesn't matter that much, considering he isn't in NSMB Wii.

You're talking about a game that has had little to no information about it. I dont think you should be using games that are still in development as an argument point

Pichu, meanwhile, is the baby form of the mascot of the series, has the signature attack Volt Tackle(it only gets associated with Pika because of the anime), and plays a major role in HG/SS.

See above for the HG/SS comment, unless there's something I missed. The anime is just as much of a part of the franchise as the game, so the Volt Tackle thing can be somewhat overlooked

 

[superyoshi888]

You can say the same about Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike (I'm just guessing on these 2, not a FE fan), and Toon/Young Link. Dont see why this matters.

Marth and Ike had a couple of titles each. Toon Link and Young Link also had multiple titles. Ness and lucas's games were more important, as far as I can tell, to their franchise than Roy's title.

Technically, Dr. Mario has had a few games, and a few appearences in other Mario games.

True, I guess.

You're talking about a game that has had little to no information about it. I dont think you should be using games that are still in development as an argument point.

Maybe I shouldn't, but if he is in it, then that would be awesome.

See above for the HG/SS comment, unless there's something I missed. The anime is just as much of a part of the franchise as the game, so the Volt Tackle thing can be somewhat overlooked

http://serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pichu.shtml

Maybe not THAT big of a role, but it is still a major event in game.

EDIT: Oh, if you want to mention the anime then I should also mention that a Pichu plays a major role in the next Pokemon movie.

 

[wiiplaya09]

You can say the same about Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike (I'm just guessing on these 2, not a FE fan), and Toon/Young Link. Dont see why this matters

iirc ness and lucas were the mains of 3 great games

edit btw if its possible we should make the fsmash from pichu proportioned to his size making the fsmash that much more satisfying to land

 

[Rudra]

iirc ness and lucas were the mains of 3 great games

Earthbound 0: Ninten
Earthbound: Ness
Earthbound 2/Mother 3: Lucas iirc

 

[FSLink]

To be technical, Roy was really in Melee just to advertise his game. More so than just Ike "advertising" the newer FE games, since Roy's game came out the same day as Melee I believe...
He's far from a popular FE lord, his popularity really came from his inclusion in Melee as a walking advertisement (note: I like Roy, and I'd wish his moveset reflected more of his form with the Sword of Seals with tossing fireballs around, but anyway...)
I really don't think it matters why they're important to their franchise or to the Smash franchise. As long as they can be an interesting character with some depth, I'm for their inclusion. Though it really makes me wonder if you're replacing CSS icons with these characters, there will be a limit...I don't think Pichu is important enough to be put in over characters like Isaac. But hey, I enjoyed Pichu in Melee and will follow this topic closely...

 

[wiiplaya09]

Earthbound 0: Ninten
Earthbound: Ness
Earthbound 2/Mother 3: Lucas iirc

ok that seems about right

 

[Boo Mansion]

You can say the same about Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike (I'm just guessing on these 2, not a FE fan), and Toon/Young Link. Dont see why this matters

Actually, Marth appeared in FE1 and FE3. Ike appeared in FE9 and FE10. Both are rather popular among FE fans, as are Hector and Sigurd.

Roy appeared in FE6 as the main and made a small cameo at the end of FE7 (if you get the complete ending, you'll see Eliwood and Hector with their children Roy and Lilina.) FE7 was after Melee though, so can't really go with that counting towards his inclusion in Melee. He was only put in to promote the upcoming release of FE6. Even so though, I think he deserves a spot in Brawl+.


On the Pichu discussion, is it going to hurt itself again? If so, I don't really see Pichu as being all that useful unless it can combo exceptionally well to make up for it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

u guys r dumb

if someone wants to make a pichu codeset, then they'll do it. anyone who 'makes' a character simply does it because they want to. neither thecape's or goodolganon's character codesets have anything to do with the plussery; the chances those characters will even make it into an official brawl+ build is extremely low especially when we have characters that already exist that need attention. if you pichu players want pichu so bad, get a hold of some coding data and do it yourselves; otherwise you can sit around and speculate about what he'd play like in brawl+ to no avail unless someone gets bored enough to do it for you.

i personally believe a character shouldn't be made just because of a fanservice or just because they "deserve it" (so stupid). a character should be made because it provides a unique experience, or a radically different flavor of an existing character. so all you people who want cloud/goku/hello kitty in the game; ask yourself.. would the character actually provide something new to the game? (or would said features even be possible with the current codes we have at our disposal?) or am i just trolling the forums about characters that need to be in brawl to satisfy my fanboy urges?

a few weeks ago i put together a dark samus codeset; i never even played metroid prime, i just watched a few boss fights with her to get some inspiration, and then thought about what would make her interesting to play.

 

[smashbro29]

While I will admit pichu had a role in some anime he's just one of the 700+ (I could be wrong on the number) little animals you can pick
Pikachu was on the cover of yellow
Lucario had his own movie and is one of the most used non-ubers
PT-given
Mewtwo-had his own movie final boss and in my opinion best final pkmn EVER
Pichu-no game no exclusive movie very generic in my opinion

But as you mentioned this is about how/why and helping making this happen so I'll stop now.

 

[Wolf of Ice]

While I will admit pichu had a role in some anime he's just one of the 700+ (I could be wrong on the number) little animals you can pick
Pikachu was on the cover of yellow
Lucario had his own movie and is one of the most used non-ubers
PT-given
Mewtwo-had his own movie final boss and in my opinion best final pkmn EVER
Pichu-no game no exclusive movie very generic in my opinion

But as you mentioned this is about how/why and helping making this happen so I'll stop now.

Pichu may not have a full length movie but the Pichu Brothers star in tons of shorts before the movies, right?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Smashbros29, there are 480-something pokemon, not 700 something. Way to exaggerate and be a Pokemon hater.


But my main point of this post: Do you plan on having Pichu's down smash have super armor at the start like it was in melee?

 

[Rudra]

Smashbros29, there are 480-something pokemon, not 700 something. Way to exaggerate and be a Pokemon hater.


But my main point of this post: Do you plan on having Pichu's down smash have super armor at the start like it was in melee?

From what I can recall, it has been said that SA and Invincibility frames cant be added to a move. (Also, I didnt know it has SA frames in Melee...! o_o)

 

[superyoshi888]

Pichu is playing a very, VERY important role in the Arceus movie, and he got his own special event in HG/SS.

And we are not asking anyone to do it for us. Someone already has the plans for the first codelist of Pichu. We just need the frame data in order to move foward with it.

I actually plan on making a character myself, though it won't be anything new. Just a modified Kirby, really. That I know won't ever be official, just for fun, because of the nature of the changes I want to make.

Pichu, however, has a shot at being official. All we need is to actually start work on it and wait for the other characters to go gold and for the clone engine to be released.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

@Rudra: yeah, it had superarmor frames at the start. Well, it might not have been CALLED SA, but he was invincible for a little bit at the start of his dsmash.

 

[Arkaether]

493 pokemon, to be exact.

 

[Slashy]

Pikachu is the unevolved version of Pikachu. It is one of the most recognizable Pokemon outside of 1st generation.

I met a Melee player who mained Pichu, so for her to return in Brawl+ might draw some more players.

 

[Rudra]

@Rudra: yeah, it had superarmor frames at the start. Well, it might not have been CALLED SA, but he was invincible for a little bit at the start of his dsmash.

Interesting. I'd be a nice feature to give it, but I dont think it's possible at the moment at least.

 

[5ive]

It's stupid to think a character doesn't deserve a spot. I mean, that's all subjective at the end of the day.

Now stop arguing and just let this thing happen. We have great plans, and judging Pichu without an open mind and without even trying it isn't even worth posting over.

Seriously people <_<

Also, I vote female. Any input on the second post on this thread? I think it would work.

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

Bowser Jr. = WIN

 

[Rudra]

Spoiler

I vote female anyways

So what happens should you hit with the aerial version instead of the grounded one? Will you keep Pikachu's original Aerial Dair trajectory or will that be changed?

EDIT: Also, I think I've though of something: Perhaps it could be changed that an aerial TJolt can knock the opponent up or ground them (like an insta-knockdown to set up a tech chase)? (Just throwing that out there)

From earlier.

Another interesting possibility would be for his ATJ to do no damage but have a stun effect akin to Zamus's Paralyzer. Since its relatively slow, its readable, and he'd still be taking damage for using it to balance it out.

 

[superyoshi888]

Here we go. I have conjured up some major but unique changes that both stem from Melee, but make Pichu incredibly different from Pikachu.

Here are changes based off of Melee

Upsmash is weaker than Pikachu's
Fsmash is stronger, and is a multihit move
Dsmash isn't electric and is a 1/2 hit move
Uair tail spike is gone
Utilt has less knockback
Dtilt has less knockback
Less range overall
Shorter Short hop
Up B gains slightly more distance but less controllable
1 or 2 frame lag on QA
Less killing potential on nair

Here are major changes that makes Pichu unique from Pikachu:

You can no longer kill with thunder from the top. Thunder is now a weak spike that is consistently recoverable until at a very high percent; in other words, it sends you down, but isn't strong enough to gimp until a high percent. The thunder will set up into a combo (upsmash? uair?) if the opponent is hit lower on the bolt.

The base hit thunder (a thunder that hits Pikachu/Pichu), will also not kill until higher percents. I see this having an upward hitbox. I am not sure whether it should be combo able into a bolt hit thunder. Of course, proper hitstun and knock back would have to be tested. This can kill at extremely high percents (170?)

Shorter double jump for a SHFFL-esque QAC. I see this having much combo potential, but in return has a worsened recovery with the shorter DJ. To balance things out even more, 2 or 3 percent self damage on each QA.

Some one mentioned this on the IRC. I'm not sure, but a 3 part QA that has shorter distance on part.

Dtilt that hits up.

A ground hit Dair that sends them up and/or combos into an fsmash.

Fsmash setups are needed, as I think it needs to be similar to Melee, where Fsmash was incredibly good, and probably one of the only consistent ways of killing at a lower percentage.

Basically, I see Pichu as an extremely good damage racker, but when it comes to killing, you have to rely on Fsmash. Killing options from thunder are gone, but thunders now can start combos, combined with better QACs (with a trade off). Of course, usmash will also be able to kill, but to a lesser extent. I also think combos should not stem from uair, or utilt to differentiate them even more.

Also, I have contacted BigSharkz, and making a Pichu is his first priority now. I have him on MSN, and it looks like he says it is very possible.

Looks great so far. If we made Pichu's electrical attacks stronger with higher percent, would that make the Fsmash broken? If so, could we maybe make the non-electrical attacks stronger that way? It would be a way to make his weakness a strength.

 

[superyoshi888]

Slight Bump, but anyways....

Could we have a faster but weaker Fair? I think having a faster Fair could possibly help with setting up combos and stuff, though I maybe wrong about that.

 

[bajisci]

I say +1 for bowser jr, u could make like a super fast bowser thatd be sick doing crazy **** like squirtle or sum crack

 

[Deleted member]

There's no way to differentiate male Pichu from female, and it has a 50% gender ratio, unlike Pikachu, who is obviously male.

 

[Roxas215]

Slight Bump, but anyways....

Could we have a faster but weaker Fair? I think having a faster Fair could possibly help with setting up combos and stuff, though I maybe wrong about that.

pika's fair is already pretty fast and has no problem comboing in brawl+ u want to make it even faster?

The aerial tjolt having no damage but stunning like zss paralzeyer is a neat idea. You cant spam it like pika since she will do damage to herself but if u time it and land it it will set up for a nice string. But isn't aerial tjolts and grounded tjolts the same thing? How would u program a aerial tjolt to act differently from a grounded one?

 

[Slashy]

pika's fair is already pretty fast and has no problem comboing in brawl+ u want to make it even faster?

The aerial tjolt having no damage but stunning like zss paralzeyer is a neat idea. You cant spam it like pika since she will do damage to herself but if u time it and land it it will set up for a nice string. But isn't aerial tjolts and grounded tjolts the same thing? How would u program a aerial tjolt to act differently from a grounded one?

I think that is a great idea.

 

[Rudra]

The aerial tjolt having no damage but stunning like zss paralzeyer is a neat idea. You cant spam it like pika since she will do damage to herself but if u time it and land it it will set up for a nice string. But isn't aerial tjolts and grounded tjolts the same thing? How would u program a aerial tjolt to act differently from a grounded one?

To be honest, I'm not certain. I was thinking that the ATJ (in its spark ball form) would have the effect, but when it travels along the ground, its just a regular one. I'm not sure if it can be done, but it would be neat if it could be.

 

[superyoshi888]

pika's fair is already pretty fast and has no problem comboing in brawl+ u want to make it even faster?

Hmm....really? I haven't played B+ in a LONG time, so I'm just posting based on what I have seen of the recent codesets.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe making fair a single hit kill move and dair a multihit combo move?

 

[mofo_]

Maybe making fair a single hit kill move and dair a multihit combo move?

that would be good. hmmm maybe d-tilt should be like vBrawl Snake's first f-tilt hit, its makes them cringe in pain