Welcome to the #AssistAlliance: AT and Spirit Character Promotion Discussion (What Does Pass 2 Mean for Spirits or Assists?)

[fogbadge]

i think our main problem (with any character) is that quite often it seems that the rules of inclusion change for each one

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Can I help with anything? I think that a lot of Assist Trophies and Spirits deserve inclusion. Just imagine some of the moveset potential of characters like Zero, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Knuckle Joe, Akira, Skull Kid and Takamaru… To be honest, I'm surprised Bomberman isn't in yet. He was in that Japanese game, the TV World Fighters thing with Snake, Beyblade Kid and Optimus Prime. AssistAlliance, I will do anything I can to Assist.

 

[PhantomShab]

That, and the fact that Young Link's Final Smash had remained hidden until the very end for... no reason at all.

I'll never understand why Sakurai kept so many disappointments a secret right to the very end.

 

[fogbadge]

I'll never understand why Sakurai kept so many disappointments a secret right to the very end.

spite?

 

[pupNapoleon]

The only person I feel more validated than Isaac in getting a promotion from Assist Trophy is Bomberman. That dude is legend.

I'd gleefully accept a Frogger playable character from Konami as well.

 

[osby]

I'll never understand why Sakurai kept so many disappointments a secret right to the very end.

Because disappointment is subjective.

 

[fogbadge]

The only person I feel more validated than Isaac in getting a promotion from Assist Trophy is Bomberman. That dude is legend.

he all ways seemed to me to be the most popular choice after sonic, mega and pac

 

[PhantomShab]

Because disappointment is subjective.

Every single reaction to Young Link's final smash I've seen was disappointment. Every single one.

 

[Lenidem]

Because disappointment is subjective.

If we go this way, everything in art is subjective. How can anyone honnestly be happy to discover that Young Link's Final Smash is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game?

 

[Idon]

I'll never understand why Sakurai kept so many disappointments a secret right to the very end.

It's most likely he doesn't exactly plan on showing disappointing or cool changes to characters. It seems things like that just got shown off arbitrarily.

 

[osby]

If we go this way, everything in art is subjective. How can anyone honnestly be happy to discover that Young Link's Final Smash is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game?

I'm not happy, but I'm not upset either, I simply don't care that much. It's generic but fits him, like Samus and Mario's Final Smashes.

 

[Lenidem]

I'm not happy, but I'm not upset either, I simply don't care that much. It's generic but fits him, like Samus and Mario's Final Smashes.

That's not wrong, but if they had done the exact same thing with only the Fierce Deity Mask, it would have been ten times better. That's what everybody was expecting. And when the result is not as good as your expectations, you're disappointed. That's what PhantomShab was saying.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I'm going to be honest here, I think Young Link could have been a much more interesting character if he hadn't been in Melee. Imagine this; what if Young Link had a Neutral B with a menu, like Shulk's, that allowed him to transform into the different masks from Majora's Mask, have Fierce Deity as a Final Smash, and slightly different movesets for each one (like Pokémon Trainer?) Say, the Deku Mask would make Link really light, somewhat similarly to Squirtle, the Goron Mask would make him really heavy, but also have really powerful attacks, like Charizard, and the Zora Mask would be a kind of middle ground (like Ivysaur.) Could that work, perhaps?

 

[fogbadge]

If we go this way, everything in art is subjective. How can anyone honnestly be happy to discover that Young Link's Final Smash is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game?

bar using the triforce of courage

 

[UserKev]

I'm going to be honest here, I think Young Link could have been a much more interesting character if he hadn't been in Melee. Imagine this; what if Young Link had a Neutral B with a menu, like Shulk's, that allowed him to transform into the different masks from Majora's Mask, have Fierce Deity as a Final Smash, and slightly different movesets for each one (like Pokémon Trainer?) Say, the Deku Mask would make Link really light, somewhat similarly to Squirtle, the Goron Mask would make him really heavy, but also have really powerful attacks, like Charizard, and the Zora Mask would be a kind of middle ground (like Ivysaur.) Could that work, perhaps?

This is a known suggestion within the community but its safe to assume Sakurai isn't aware of the concept, its incredible.

 

[PhantomShab]

If anything, I'm glad Young Link plays the way he does. At least I had a new main to fall back on after regular Link got his moveset meddled with in ways I really don't like all for the sake of shilling the newest game.

Absolutely no excuse for not giving him the Majora's Mask designs for his equipment though, especially since his model was remade from the ground up instead of being ported.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Can I help with anything? I think that a lot of Assist Trophies and Spirits deserve inclusion. Just imagine some of the moveset potential of characters like Zero, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Knuckle Joe, Akira, Skull Kid and Takamaru… To be honest, I'm surprised Bomberman isn't in yet. He was in that Japanese game, the TV World Fighters thing with Snake, Beyblade Kid and Optimus Prime. AssistAlliance, I will do anything I can to Assist.

Oh you want to help?

We are open to anything really. Depends on what methods or ideas you have really.

A good portion of diplomats are doing their own thing, whether it's handling their own charactercords or Twitters to do things fans of that character would like.

All up to you. And you are right that the characters you mentioned are full of moveset potential. Shows that they are definitely ripe enough to be fighters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If we go this way, everything in art is subjective. How can anyone honnestly be happy to discover that Young Link's Final Smash is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game?

...because these were the same people who happened to be excited to see Young Link- who is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game.

 

[fogbadge]

...because these were the same people who happened to be excited to see Young Link- who is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game.

ignoring your insults, what do you mean has nothing to do with his own game?

 

[pupNapoleon]

ignoring your insults, what do you mean has nothing to do with his own game?

Repetition in the comedic effect.
Young Link is derived from Link, not from Young Link's appearances.
It's all good man.

 

[fogbadge]

Repetition in the comedic effect.
Young Link is derived from Link, not from Young Link's appearances.
It's all good man.

well young link does use things from oot/mm to separate him from the other links, as for the other two parts of that comment, what?

 

[Lenidem]

...because these were the same people who happrened to be excited to see Young Link- who is generic, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his own game.

That's not true. As a young teenager, I was very excited when I learnt that Young Link was going to be in Melee, even knowing that he would only be a smaller, faster version of 'Adult Link'. He had his Kokiri Sword, his Deku Shield... and he was even drinking Lon Lon Milk! That was great.

Now, as an adult, I understand why he is a clone, and I accept it. The masks-moveset we've all fantasized about would require much more time and ressources than a regular character, which goes against the very reason why Young Link is there in the first place. So I totally accept it. However, I think the final smash is a wasted opportunity, especially when you see that some echoes - not even clones - have a different one.
Like many others, I thought that they were keeping this final smash secret for a reason, and that reason would be a badass Fierce Deity Link revealed in the Skull Kid trailer. But it was overestimating Nintendo's communication skills.

That being said, we're not on Young Link's topic.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

This topic is now near 10k views. Close, but not the exact number.

I guess this goes to show that even people want to talk about their favorite characters, regardless of what status they already have in the game. This is what I was looking for and I am glad we somewhat helped with things here.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

This topic is now near 10k views. Close, but not the exact number.

I guess this goes to show that even people want to talk about their favorite characters, regardless of what status they already have in the game. This is what I was looking for and I am glad we somewhat helped with things here.

Shows that we got a lot of people who are still sticking to their most wanted, even if they got a role in some form. That's why I am proud of this fandom.

Speaking of which, it is GoldenSunday, I hope some of you got some stuff planned. It's pretty big to support the Golden Sun fandom in times like this.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So #GoldenSunday, it all turned out well. We did everything we could to help spread the word, unfortunately it was weaker in terms of word from mouth than the last time sadly. However, more was done this very day and the Golden Sun fandom really intertwined with the alliance. So it's all good either way.

Glad we all helped in some ways.

 

[Bonnelle D'Arc]

Even though Golden Sunday was weaker this time around, as long as we keep doing it, I doubt it will die off so quickly.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

We got two important anniversaries coming up.

The anniversary of Majora's Mask for the Skull Kid fans (April 27th) and the anniversary of Fire Emblem Blazing Sword for the Lyn fans (April 25th).

The diplomats for those two characters got some things planned. Lyn's will have a special anniversary Twitch stream of FE7 and Skull Kid's has the #FreeSkull tag movement for most of the day while people talk about what they love about Majora's Mask as a game.

We can hope to support these two on their big days next week. It will be important for them.

 

[Idon]

We got two important anniversaries coming up.

The anniversary of Majora's Mask for the Skull Kid fans (April 27th) and the anniversary of Fire Emblem Blazing Sword for the Lyn fans (April 25th).

The diplomats for those two characters got some things planned. Lyn's will have a special anniversary Twitch stream of FE7 and Skull Kid's has the #FreeSkull tag movement for most of the day while people talk about what they love about Majora's Mask as a game.

We can hope to support these two on their big days next week. It will be important for them.

Aw man those are two of my favorite games from those respective franchises.

I'm excited to see what happens then.

 

[SmashChu]

I'll never understand why Sakurai kept so many disappointments a secret right to the very end.

Think there is a disconnect between Sakurai and the fans. I mean, look how long it took to add Ridley or get Ganondorf to have a sword. You could say the same for assist trophies. Sakurai LOVES assist trophies so much so that there are now 59 assist trophies. But fans hate them because they see them as the "never-ever" club. A lot of people don't even play with items so a sizable chunk of the player base will never see them. Its a concept that has over stayed its welcome but Sakurai hasn't figured it out yet.

Also, thread needs more love for Spring Man!

 

[Guynamednelson]

A lot of people don't even play with items so a sizable chunk of the player base will never see them.

Well, this is definitely true for online Smash communities. The silent majority probably plays with them. Although, even this silent majority has a problem with ATs seeing how big the Waluigi backlash was.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Think there is a disconnect between Sakurai and the fans. I mean, look how long it took to add Ridley or get Ganondorf to have a sword. You could say the same for assist trophies. Sakurai LOVES assist trophies so much so that there are now 59 assist trophies. But fans hate them because they see them as the "never-ever" club. A lot of people don't even play with items so a sizable chunk of the player base will never see them. Its a concept that has over stayed its welcome but Sakurai hasn't figured it out yet.

Also, thread needs more love for Spring Man!

Did someone say Spring Man?

I would unironically make a movement for him if I want

And all of this is actually true. It's clear that Sakurai loves Assists Trophy since it is a way to give a character a meaningful role without them being fighters. But at the same time, which you said, not many people really use items unless they love casual fun matches or they just think that character not being playable is a death sentence.

 

[Ovaltine]

We got two important anniversaries coming up.

The anniversary of Majora's Mask for the Skull Kid fans (April 27th) and the anniversary of Fire Emblem Blazing Sword for the Lyn fans (April 25th).

The diplomats for those two characters got some things planned. Lyn's will have a special anniversary Twitch stream of FE7 and Skull Kid's has the #FreeSkull tag movement for most of the day while people talk about what they love about Majora's Mask as a game.

We can hope to support these two on their big days next week. It will be important for them.

That is going to be a big deal for those guys. I doubt I'll be well enough this week to do anything for the day, but I encourage everyone to show their passion and show it proud!

Do we have any other important dates coming? I know Geno's will be on May 13th with SMRPG's North American release. I'll definitely have to draw something for that day and show it off.

 

[PhantomShab]

Think there is a disconnect between Sakurai and the fans. I mean, look how long it took to add Ridley or get Ganondorf to have a sword. You could say the same for assist trophies. Sakurai LOVES assist trophies so much so that there are now 59 assist trophies. But fans hate them because they see them as the "never-ever" club. A lot of people don't even play with items so a sizable chunk of the player base will never see them. Its a concept that has over stayed its welcome but Sakurai hasn't figured it out yet.

Also, thread needs more love for Spring Man!

Yeah he's definitely out of touch considering how long it took to get things we should have gotten years ago. But even then he has to be at least a little bit aware of how disliked assist trophies are at this point. Every single time a highly requested character is made into an AT the internet treats it like a damn funeral with all the "r.i.p" posting. Like what feedback is he even reading that he thinks people will like him just doubling down on the assist trophies every single game?

Take Bomberman for example. He has as much history with Nintendo as Mega Man does, yet he's an assist trophy while 2 obscure and niche 3rd party characters (Bayonetta and Joker) are made into fighters for no other reason than Sakurai being a fan of their games. Not to mention Piranha Plant, a character who actually should have been an AT, was revealed after what might have been the biggest hopes and dreams massacre in Smash history. Now thanks to the very contradictory and stupid rule people (understandably) think Sakurai has about upgrading assist trophies, we'll have to wait another 5+ years for Bomberman to even just have a chance of being an actual fighter, and that just freaking sucks. Then you're called ungrateful for being disappointed.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

That is going to be a big deal for those guys. I doubt I'll be well enough this week to do anything for the day, but I encourage everyone to show their passion and show it proud!

Do we have any other important dates coming? I know Geno's will be on May 13th with SMRPG's North American release. I'll definitely have to draw something for that day and show it off.

Shadow's anniversary is in June and Waluigi's is in July. Those are the two biggest dates so far.

Others include Rex (December), Spring Man (June), Saki (November), Starfy (September), Midna (November), Ashley (December), Yuri Kozukata (September), Prince Sable (September), Bomberman (July), Krystal (September), Shovel Knight (June), Zero (December), Andy (September), Lip (August), Eggman (June), Tails (November), Knuckles (October for the Knuckles part of 3 & Knuckles), Dixie Kong (November), Captain Toad (November), Jeff and Porky (August), Shantae (June), Rayman (September), Yuyuki Goku (October), and Octolings (May).

I left out characters who were too late, like earlier this year or lack a real movement behind them (Twitter, Discord, etc).

 

[fogbadge]

I would unironically make a movement for him if I want

how would you make a moveset ironically anyway?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

how would you make a moveset ironically anyway?

Because let's be honest, a lot of ARMS fans had given up and left him.

I could make that chance since I may be the most passionate Spring man fan left in existence.

 

[fogbadge]

Because let's be honest, a lot of ARMS fans had given up and left him.

I could make that chance since I may be the most passionate Spring man fan left in existence.

well id still like to see him so if nothing else youre not alone

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I think enough people want Spring Man.

Thing is ARMS fans went silent, thinking the AT and spirits is all they will get until the next game. If they can maybe still express desire for him, even if it's not big enough, it could make a difference.

Or else you will just show that he is unwanted in the end. Using the Mii Costume online or making good Spring Miis also helps. It's good promotion for Smash online.

 

[fogbadge]

I think enough people want Spring Man.

Thing is ARMS fans went silent, thinking the AT and spirits is all they will get until the next game. If they can maybe still express desire for him, even if it's not big enough, it could make a difference.

Or else you will just show that he is unwanted in the end. Using the Mii Costume online or making good Spring Miis also helps. It's good promotion for Smash online.

i suppose we can but try

 

[SmashChu]

how would you make a moveset ironically anyway?

Basically Dhalsim. He has a ton of different ARMS that could be made into moves. For instance

-Hammers as Down smash
-Slapamander and a multihit
-Megaton as a F Smash
-Chakrums as his normal air (circles around him)

And the special moves can be more unique ARMS. There is a lot you can do.

I think enough people want Spring Man.

Thing is ARMS fans went silent, thinking the AT and spirits is all they will get until the next game. If they can maybe still express desire for him, even if it's not big enough, it could make a difference.

Or else you will just show that he is unwanted in the end. Using the Mii Costume online or making good Spring Miis also helps. It's good promotion for Smash online.

I think a lot of his fans were general Nintendo fans. ARMS was decently popular on the Nintendo Switch subreddit. I don't these people are sitting around in these kinds of threads. That said, totally plan to get the Graphic Novel whenever it comes out to support the series.

Yeah he's definitely out of touch considering how long it took to get things we should have gotten years ago. But even then he has to be at least a little bit aware of how disliked assist trophies are at this point. Every single time a highly requested character is made into an AT the internet treats it like a damn funeral with all the "r.i.p" posting. Like what feedback is he even reading that he thinks people will like him just doubling down on the assist trophies every single game?

Take Bomberman for example. He has as much history with Nintendo as Mega Man does, yet he's an assist trophy while 2 obscure and niche 3rd party characters (Bayonetta and Joker) are made into fighters for no other reason than Sakurai being a fan of their games. Not to mention Piranha Plant, a character who actually should have been an AT, was revealed after what might have been the biggest hopes and dreams massacre in Smash history. Now thanks to the very contradictory and stupid rule people (understandably) think Sakurai has about upgrading assist trophies, we'll have to wait another 5+ years for Bomberman to even just have a chance of being an actual fighter, and that just freaking sucks. Then you're called ungrateful for being disappointed.

My biggest criticism of Sakurai is that he tends to add what he wants rather than what fans want. Let's be honest, why is Joker in Smash Bros beyond the fact Sakurai likes Persona 5? The same can be said about Incinaroar (he wanted to make a unique moveset) and Ken (when Shadow was far more popular and Street Fighter has never been popular among Smash Bros fans).In fairness, Simon was from the Ballot so it's hard to say Bomberman should have been in; nonetheless, there is still a president for Sakurai doing this. On assist, I wonder if it will matter. I mean, look how hard it was for Sakurai to give Ganondorf a sword. I've said that Smash needs a new Director after Ultimate and this is kind of why.