Wavedashing without Y or X (Control Stick)

[JKJ]

I, as far as I know, am the only person to wavedash without the use of Y or X. I learned it this way, and have used this method with great success. My wavedashes are full length ( I mean, not perfect, but whose is?) and I can waveshine with Fox/Falco with relative ease and can link multiple waveshines/wavedashes together with no problem. I will go over the method quickly for those who don't get it:

I start by smashing the control stick up, and then rolling it down (left or right depending on which direction I want to go) and pressing R just as the control stick reaches a slight downward angle for a lengthy wavedash.

I have been regarded with disbelief from fellow smashers, who all claim that it is a bad habit that needs to be unlearned. Many people tell me that I am limiting my options, but for me, it works just fine. I have only been to three tournaments, but have been improving every time, faring well against well known smashers like G$ and The Moon. Not winning, mind you, but getting much better each time. I feel as though this is in no way holding me back but I would like to hear from others in the community. So tell me:

1) Does anybody else wavedash this way?
2) Is this actually limiting my options? (I am a Falco main)

Thanks in advance for any input. Been bugging me for a while.

 

[Izuhu]

Question is how fast can you wavedash under pressure ?

 

[PGH Carroll]

I think h box does this also?

i dont think its a terrible thing, i just think your control stick might go quicker and it may be hard to keep doing that way consistently

 

[JKJ]

Lol yes I can consistently wavedash under pressure. I can wavedash out of shield, and all that other crap. I can dash dance to reverse wavedash edgehog/grab, all that crap. And if Hbox really does this, that's pretty awesome. And I haven't found the controller problem an issue. I've been using the same controller for about a year now (when I entered the melee scene) and have seen no recognizable decay in stick accuracy, sensitivity, or ability to register a neutral position.

Thanks for the input, much quicker than expected.

P:S: I heard the Hbox uses z for his aerials. Just sayin'.

 

[Izuhu]

Stick with it I love seeing diverse playstyles. I use Z to cancel too

 

[JKJ]

Thanks :D And I have to admit, I kinda love the faces I get when people ask about it. Mostly it stems from the extra noise the control stick smashing makes; that's how people notice. So glad somebody finally thinks I should stick with it :D
Also, I meant that instead of using the C-stick, or A+directions, he uses z+directions to do the normal fair, bair, dair, uair, and nair. He uses z to cancel as well, I think.

 

[Izuhu]

Oh I misread that, my bad, I have no idea about Hbox using the Z button for aerials.

 

[PGH Carroll]

I know some people that do that. (Z aeriel) mostly spacies

 

[rawrimamonster]

I've been doing this since I learned how to wavedash, X/Y just feels unnatural to me.

 

[fatman667]

Tried it this way, when I first learned. Then X/Y just felt comfortable.

 

[Vkrm]

Imma try it. See if it helps the my length. 1 question, are your wd's clean and crisp, or are they herky jerky? You know, does it look like falco is coughing when you do it?

 

[Morin0]

You're not the only one. I use the analog stick to wavedash as well.

I've had people tell me that it's really uncommon, but eh, that's just how I learned to wavedash and attempting to use X/Y feels awkward.

 

[JKJ]

@rawrimamonster - Awesome! Stick with it, I'm so glad somebody else does it!
@Fatman667 - Hey, whatever works for you.
@Vkrm - Definitely give it a shot. I feel like I can link it into moves better, as it leaves my right thumb open for input. And yes, my wavedashes are crisp and clean, there is no "coughing" motion from falco.
@Morino - Sweet! Analog stick wavedashers against the world! Lol

 

[Vkrm]

It's kinda hard.... Tried with fox, flako, and marf. I think it's borderline impossible with chars that have few frames of jump squat. I think Ill be using this with falco so I can mess around with multiple characters and have fewer tech hiccups. Didn't really notice any change in length but I kinda already had slick movement. @JKJ I was wondering how in the Christ do you wave land on the stage from the ledge? Seems really difficult.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I play ice climbers but i practice waveshines and shine sh nair with fox and the only way i can waveshine is with analog. If your thumb is placed almost exactly straight down it is much easier and I have two controllers.
I use my old 1 for fox cause the joystick is actually looser and more worn in and i can flick up to sh out of shine. My new 1 is tight and i like using it for ice climbers but i cant even do a waveshine with it. I use x sh for shffls and y for shdl. my fox is hella inconsistant and short hopping with control stick is different on every controller, you might want to have several controllers to see if you can do it only with yours

 

[VietGeek]

this is what i use

regardless of what you say

it works well for me

sou desu ne.

 

[victra♥]

i'm convinced that whoever can wavedash without x or y is a wizard

a wizard with a severely callused left thumb haha

 

[BluEG]

Hbox wavedashes like this.

He also uses Z for everything. You can do an aerial and L-cancel with the same button.

 

[Lovage]

other ppl who do this include rockcrock, QDVS and remen

i do most stuff with the control stick but i wouldn't recommend anyone do their wavedashes with the stick. if it works COOL but thats so much more work than it has to be lol.

 

[BluEG]

Wavedashing with the control stick require two inputs with the same finger, where as if you use control stick for direction, one finger for x/y and the other for a bumper, you can push the limits of the time in between each button input.

 

[JKJ]

@Vkrm
I don't know how ledgedashing works for me lol but it does. It just requires good timing, I use down, then Y to waveland with most characters, except falco. With falco I press down, then up and then down and diagonal and r to waveland. Works pretty well for me. But with characters like Marth, falcon, DK, or Ganon, I use down then y then diagonal down and r. Their double jumps are too short to succeed with my normal method.

 

[Lech Walesa]

Ya' know, I've tried wavedashing like that and to no avail. Lol. I commend you. :D

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

How about wavedashing in place? Does it feel easier or harder compared to sideways wavedash with your method?

 

[Ryobeat]

I do the same thing, it feels easier to control in my opinion.

 

[Zoler]

Why would you do more things with one finger instead of spreading it out over different ones, effectively giving more control, speed etc.

Javi uses a different finger for every button, that is amazing. This is just backwards....

 

[Ryobeat]

Why would you do more things with one finger instead of spreading it out over different ones, effectively giving more control, speed etc.

Javi uses a different finger for every button, that is amazing. This is just backwards....

I play peach, and doing FC Aerials involves alot of twists of the analog stick, so its not new to me. And im using only that one finger, and its like spinning it so it feels like the same thing. I still use X to short hop, this is just for wavedashing.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Cstick is a thing.

 

[1048576]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYhOONHF6E

0:50

All control stick. 6 years ago.

 

[hungrybox]

I use control stick to jump

I wavedash with control stick and R

I do aerials with Z and occasionally C-stick

I L-Cancel with Z

I shield with R

I SHFFL with control stick

etc etc

 

[1048576]

MAN YOU GOTTA WORK ON THAT SO U CAN L2PLAY SHEIK AND BEAT ARMADa

 

[1048576]

I HERD PP STEPPIN UP THAT YOUNG lINK

 

[JKJ]

@_Novi Wavedashing in place feels easier, as does wavedashing at variable lengths (i.e. setting up spacing) than it does with Y or X.
@Zoler In my opinion this actually frees up my other hand. I'm free to press any buttons I want instead of being stuck to the X or Y button with my right hand.
@Ryobeat Yeah I use Y to shorthop, this is simply for wavedashing. Right on.
@Hungrybox I wavedash with control stick and R and jump with up too! I shield with R as well. So happy to hear that at least one high level player does this with success. Thanks for clearing up all our "I heard Hbox does _____ for ______ speculations."

 

[Bones0]

What does it free your hand up for? If you are WDing there's nothing you could possibly doing with your other hand. The soonest you're going to have to press B, or C-stick after WDing is 13 frames, which is plenty of time. With the same consideration, you often have to FF or dash out of WDs meaning making minimal control stick inputs would help improve consistency for post-WD stuff.

 

[Achilles1515]

Technically speaking (just like how there is a tier list), it is better to do things with different fingers, as it allows you to do the same amount of work but with less finger movement. This goes along with using the z button also. If you are doing an aerial in the direction you are moving and you want to stay moving in that direction, you should use the z button because it uses a different finger than the one you jumped with, whereas using the c stick requires it to be pressed with the same finger you jumped with (assuming you use x or y to jump). But since using the z button for aerials requires direction input from the control stick, if you are not going full go in one direction, the c stick may be a better option for spacing. Ex. Doing a shffled double fair while jumping as far backwards as possible with marth using the z button would be….well…hard. Using different fingers also allow the other ones to be ready in place for the next move, like using z for a shffled back air and then having your thumb ready on b for the shine already. All nairs should be done with the z button also, and not the a button as one can press 2 buttons (jump--> nair) with 2 different fingers in succession faster than they can press 2 buttons in succession with the same finger. But as always, everyone has their own style and people can still be frame perfect in executing things without doing it the most efficient way because most move combinations cannot be accomplished on frame 1.

 

[JKJ]

@Bones0 I feel limited with my right hand, like it is *stuck* to the y button or x button. For me, doing multiple wavedashes interspersed with shines is impossible using y. In order to do this I have to constantly switch between y and b with my right thumb. My way, I can keep my thumb on b and still wavedash the whole time. I'm sure I could do it if I tried really hard, but my playstyle is working for me, and I haven't hit any tech skill that I could not do because of this. In short, not using y frees up my right thumb to press whatever I want out of the wavedash: c-stick, b, a, anything really. I understand your point, that's just not how it feels to me.
@achilles1515 I see what you're saying about using different fingers for different buttons to achieve frame perfection, but I find this to work for me. I simply cannot seem to implement y+L wavedashing into my playstyle. For me, it doesn't work. And hey, my wavedashing/ledgedashes/waveshines/shffl-shine combos and shield pressures are on point, so I don't see it as a pressing issue.

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I mean like I said, you have at least 13 frames to go to B for waveshines, so anyone who practices even a little should be able to do it fine. If the control stick works for you though, go for it.