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Wavedash - DISCONFIRMED!

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Zauron

Zauron

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Salaad said:
I'm kinda confused on the Auto L-cancel. Am also wondering about DDing.
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Basically, any time you land an air attack, it has the same lag as if you L-Cancelled it, but you don't have to actually press L or R to do it. They just cut the air attack lag down to a much smaller amount across the board and made pressing L/R before landing no longer have any effect on the lag time. This helps with Wi-Fi issues as well as making the advantage of L-Cancelling accessible to all players. Now to SHFFL, you only have to SHFF, and the result will be the same. Its not really auto L-cancel, its just that L-cancel was removed but at the same time rendered unnecessary.

At least, that's the theory, but its well supported by video evidence and makes a lot of sense as explained in my large post a bit ago about why the removed WD'ing and likely L-Cancelling.
 
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sHy)(gUy

Smash Ace
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Metairie LA
If wavedashing is gone the only thing thats gonna suck is having to relearn a whole new control scheme, i can imagine playing people trying to wavedash and just standing there getting hit by someone..... so all the pros are gonna be messing up while the noobs beat the cr@p out of them, i remeber back before i knew about the wavedash i would use roll alot to dogge and such but luckily i still use roll alot so i guess its back to the roll, if wd is deconfirmed im gonna start playing melee without wd to get used to things..... What i dont understand is if sakuri really does know about smashs cmpetitive scene doesnt he realize all the people hes gonna piss off by removing wavedashing.....
 
K

KirbySSB

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Zauron said:
Basically, any time you land an air attack, it has the same lag as if you L-Cancelled it, but you don't have to actually press L or R to do it. They just cut the air attack lag down to a much smaller amount across the board and made pressing L/R before landing no longer have any effect on the lag time. This helps with Wi-Fi issues as well as making the advantage of L-Cancelling accessible to all players. Now to SHFFL, you only have to SHFF, and the result will be the same. Its not really auto L-cancel, its just that L-cancel was removed but at the same time rendered unnecessary.
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there's no proof of this at all, its all speculation.
 
S

Salaad

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It's not like the knoobs even know how to SHFF...so I guess we still do have advanteages over them. xD
 
Zauron

Zauron

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There is proof in the simple fact that every air attack that is landed in every video we've seen has the same lag as an L-Cancelled version of it from Melee. We can see this clearly. There'd be no POINT in L-Cancelling the vast majority of air attacks because the land lag is virtually non-existant now anyway. I've done frame-by-frame analysis on every video now, and every air attack has the same or even less lag on landing than the same move did on Melee (for moves that were in both), and none of the new air attacks (that aren't B moves) have any noticable recovery time at all.

If L-Cancelling still does something, its not going to be anywhere near as necessary to use because the lag time is so low anyway it would be pointless to bother pressing the button for it in all but the laggiest of air attacks (like Link's DAir or some of Bowser's moves). All the normal-speed air attacks have practically no recovery lag at all. For example, look at the times Mario lands during his UAir (while he is still upside down even) and notice that he's instantly on his feet. If you are familiar with Mario at all, you'd know that recovery is L-Cancelled speed, but this is being seen by level 3 CPU's and reporters that don't seem to even know how to block.
 
K

Kryptonite X

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
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sHy)(gUy said:
If wavedashing is gone the only thing thats gonna suck is having to relearn a whole new control scheme, i can imagine playing people trying to wavedash and just standing there getting hit by someone..... so all the pros are gonna be messing up while the noobs beat the cr@p out of them, i remeber back before i knew about the wavedash i would use roll alot to dogge and such but luckily i still use roll alot so i guess its back to the roll, if wd is deconfirmed im gonna start playing melee without wd to get used to things..... What i dont understand is if sakuri really does know about smashs cmpetitive scene doesnt he realize all the people hes gonna piss off by removing wavedashing.....
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1. You can use the gamecube controller, you don't have to relearn a new control scheme.


2. Competitive smashers make up a fraction of the target audience. Looking at it from a business angle, it wouldn't even matter if he pissed off every single competitive smasher.
 
Zauron

Zauron

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sHy)(gUy said:
im talking about playing with wavedashing and playing without, it tottaly changes how the game is played
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Well, from what we've seen and heard, the game will feel quite different anyway even if WD'ing were still in. So many changes that all add up to a completely different feel, even if it looks familiar at first.
 
5

5@/\/\U5

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
152
Kryp is right on both counts, and lol at most of you guys.

New Game = New Gameplay = New Advanced Strategies/Techniques

it's really that simple. Melee will always be there, but I'm confident that Brawl will have the same spark of genious and depth that will lend itself to an active competitive community, and legs that keep it fresh and fun for a least another 6 years.
 
S

Shuma

Smash Hero
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May 12, 2007
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5,407
Well... if this is true...

*Dances on top of Wavedash tomb*

I always hated Wavedashers with a pasion, they're always cocky and arrogant.
 
V

Vortok

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Washington
Zauron said:
and reporters that don't seem to even know how to block.
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The Remote blows balls for blocking. Try holding it sideways and tell me that pressing B like that is comfortable and easy to do as a second nature. It's not.


Also, I think this video confirms crouch canceling right at the 2:00 mark. Diddy just comes back, after dying, and hits Samus while Samus is clearly crouching. Samus moves like... the length of a roll (but takes damage and it looks pretty clear that she got hit and the animation looks a bit different from a roll which you see about 15 seconds later). Samus is at 95% after the hit. And if you look just before that, Samus gets hit by a weak hit from Diddy and flies through the air about half the stage length.

So it -appears- to confirm crouch cancelling in some way, shape, or form.
 
Zauron

Zauron

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Vortok said:
The Remote blows balls for blocking. Try holding it sideways and tell me that pressing B like that is comfortable and easy to do as a second nature. It's not.
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Exactly, which means that its very unlikely they somehow managed to L-Cancel every single airial seen in the videos.
 
T

Thrull

Smash Cadet
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Oct 10, 2007
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5@/\/\U5 said:
Kryp is right on both counts, and lol at most of you guys.

New Game = New Gameplay = New Advanced Strategies/Techniques

it's really that simple. Melee will always be there, but I'm confident that Brawl will have the same spark of genious and depth that will lend itself to an active competitive community, and legs that keep it fresh and fun for a least another 6 years.
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I tend to agree. For one, an air dodge with no recovery penalty aside from the brief loss of control during the dodge has some interesting implications. Offensive dodges that maintain your momentum could be used to get past someone's attack and then quickly counter once the dodge ends without needing to land. You could mix your dodges into your normal aerial movement and fake people out without sacrificing your offense.

If they allowed the air dodge to move, plus no recovery penalty, it would be like a third jump. Something of a trade off...
 
S

Shuma

Smash Hero
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Dear god... everyone here has theyr sarcasm detector broken... I am happy that Wavedash is gone, but that was directed at the "OMG WAVEDASH IS GONE IM GONNA PWN ONLINE" n00bs.
 
S

sHy)(gUy

Smash Ace
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558
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Metairie LA
so what was that thing wario was doin in that movie, it looks like a waveland i dont know where the video is but i think it would disprove this topic. Uless it a move that is unique to wario where he slides on the ground while coming down???
 
Gimpyfish62

Gimpyfish62

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NES n00b said:
I see what he is talking about now. You are such a horrible cocky person and you waveland with Bowser so it correlates perfectly. :laugh:;)

I love you post. lol
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wow you earn special gimpyfish brownie points, i seriously didn't think anyon would catch onto that at all XD
 
NES n00b

NES n00b

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Gimpyfish62 said:
wow you earn special gimpyfish brownie points, i seriously didn't think anyon would catch onto that at all XD
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haha, yes.

Tony_ said:
I love it when Tourney***s bawwww about losing WaveDashing.

This only makes characters more balanced if anything. Stop whining.
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Explain to me how it will balance the game more. I understand if you don't like wavedashing, but don't pull things out of your *** and state them as facts. I hate that directional airdodging is gone instead of wavedash really (I use Link and CF, both not that big on wavedashing).
 
M

Mama

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776
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Richmond California (northern)
Its not simply techniques that make pros great. Its the mental game and state of mind. We actually try to make our game better by learning techniques and fighting on a higher level. Like I said before even if wave dashing is out it wont be that big of a deal. This game will have many new things and play styles were bound to change anyway. Wave dashing may even be obsolete.

Stop with the wave dash topics. Its way too ever rated for its own good. You people are just going to make noobs think they stand a chance due to the absence of a single technique.
 
D

Dacvak

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
523
So, effectively we can no longer directionally air dodge? I'm a heavy wavedasher, but I think not being able to directional air dodge causes more problems than just WDing. I mean, directional air dodges are a key part in Smash! I can't begin to list all the uses of them, because it's like trying to list all the uses for grabs or smash attacks!

I just can't accept that directional airdodges are gone. I'm going to need proof in 2 days.

Dammit... I'm in stage 1: Denial.

~Dac
 
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