Croi
Smash Lord
I'm about ready to move on to the next matchup imo. Who's next, Marth?
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Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
- Start date
Lord Chair
Smash Master
With proper SDI, Blizzard doesn't lead into grab unless IC somehow expect you to jump right into it and have the available Ice Climber rush straight in to grab you right away. Misread means free heavy punish.
I'd still like to see if I can get ESAM to budge on his moderate advantage.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Again, it is +1 or +2 depending on the stagelist, there is no way in hell it is even. The only stages Wario can effectively run away are SV, Lylat, and Castle Siege (Maybe PS1). If you are in a stagelist with 3 neutrals (FD, BF, SV) ICs should be winning game 1 and counterpicking SOMEWHERE to win game 3. If it is a 5 neutral list, we still get an advantage with either FD, BF, or Yoshis, but less so than if it was just FD or BF. ICs should be winning game 1 either way.
I'll go to +1 for now, but I'm not saying it's even...because it isn't.
I'll go to +1 for now, but I'm not saying it's even...because it isn't.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I don't see how he cannot camp on BF, Halberd, Yoshi's and Delfino. I'd say Lylat is even harder than those stages considering the limited amount of space each platform offers him to land on (whereas on BF he can always opt to skip a platform and take the next one, smart biking even means his bike bounces offstage whereas on Lylat it's often not possible to bike away without giving it up until it's destroyed).
That's all I wanted. I respectfully disagree. Thank you for your input.
Player-1
Smash Legend
Elaborate on why, and we'll add you.
Player-1
Smash Legend
cuz wario is hard to grab and is always in the air and ICs are on the ground
Labernash
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,674
Works for me!
Actually, Blizzard rarely leads to grab thanks to it's freezing and SDI stuff. It's simply a strong wall that is kinda hard to beat and does a lot of damage. Use tires for this one imo.
And I almost always punish Jebu trying to bike through my Blizzard since I do a nair or bair with the other climber to hit you out of the bike. You shouldn't get grabbed this way, but you still get hit and lose your bike.
Edit: oh this was posted to xzx. I didn't notice there was another page already. Sorry guys.
And I almost always punish Jebu trying to bike through my Blizzard since I do a nair or bair with the other climber to hit you out of the bike. You shouldn't get grabbed this way, but you still get hit and lose your bike.
Edit: oh this was posted to xzx. I didn't notice there was another page already. Sorry guys.
I agree 100% with this
@Player-1: More than that please! =P But are you saying that Wario has +1 in this MU? I can't see why...
@LzR: Yeah, but if ICs are desynching their blizzard Nana could easily grab Wario out of it. If both ICs are using blizzard then Wario should use the bike, otherwise no.
Jebu: +1
xzx: -1
Croi: +1
FreESAM: -1
TheSaintKai: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Lord Chair: -1
Ruinn: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Iridescent: -1
Iota: 0
BPx: -1
Labernash: -1
LzR: -1
Anragon: 0
@LzR: Yeah, but if ICs are desynching their blizzard Nana could easily grab Wario out of it. If both ICs are using blizzard then Wario should use the bike, otherwise no.
Jebu: +1
xzx: -1
Croi: +1
FreESAM: -1
TheSaintKai: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Lord Chair: -1
Ruinn: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Iridescent: -1
Iota: 0
BPx: -1
Labernash: -1
LzR: -1
Anragon: 0
Will you be going to SKATAR? I don't think the US knows how good Wario can be. The best Warios are in Japan and Europe.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
I'll be at SKTAR. However, I'ma go PIkachu since I'm more in control with that character as a whole and I'm godlike, + People keep *****ing I don't go PIkachu enough @_@
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I would dare say that unless Glutonny decides to step it up after his last performance, Reflex is the best Wario in the world.
He'll step it up though. Japan is too smart to play Wario and besides Glutonny, Europe doesn't have top level Warios. The States should be most experienced with the character considering every other top player seems to have a Wario secondary.
Yep, that do work. I saw Vinnie C do a Nana fair > Popo blizzard > Nana grab > Cg. Ice Climbers can grab you in a blizzard. Oh, and Vinnie C sometimes desynch blizzard.
Croi
Smash Lord
Isn't there, like, just one Japanese player that uses Wario in singles? I heard they like him for doubles but he's very rare for singles.
Yukke was a Japanese Wario at APEX.
I remember Kite from years back.
I remember Kite from years back.
One-Up
Smash Apprentice
Japan doesnt use wario in singles... thats just dumb. u cant ban FD.and theres barley any good CPs for him :/ In Arizona(where i live) we use japanese ruleset, it sucks... thank god we have only a few good players so i have more of a chance to do well in tournies. ahahahah
I think when someone is struck with it in the most inner part, it is very hard to SDI out of it. Or, I don't know.
But do everyone agree that I put the ICs as -1 for us? The next one we will be discussing is Falco.
The average seems to suggest -1. That's all that matters.
Even overall, probably. Chaingrab is nice for both sides; we can deal hefty damage to him on individual hits, and getting him in a position to have to make a decision isn't terribly difficult. Lasers are a threat to approaching him, but not to our health.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Fair is king.
Bike beats lasers. Don't get it baited. k
Bike beats lasers. Don't get it baited. k
His main killers are Up-Smash and Bair. Learn to avoid them and be sure to space outside of his hyphen u-smash range if you're at kill %. If he CG's you, get ready to SDI the spike. Having to recover with the bike from below is a terrible place for Wario to be in this MU.
Learn to CG (I should do this too. LzR you need to help me with this D: ) and practice different set-ups that can lead to the grab.
If you know that he is going to recover with side-B to the stage, use Dair. Dair always beats his side-B. You could even try to f-smash if you're good at timing it (it wont beat the first 1/4 of his side-b range though). If he fully jabs you then SDI behind him and do whatever you like.
Yeah like Chair already said, Bike goes through his SHDL. Don't get too predictable with it though !
You once claimed that it was easy and that you knew how it is done or something like that.
Learn to CG (I should do this too. LzR you need to help me with this D: ) and practice different set-ups that can lead to the grab.
If you know that he is going to recover with side-B to the stage, use Dair. Dair always beats his side-B. You could even try to f-smash if you're good at timing it (it wont beat the first 1/4 of his side-b range though). If he fully jabs you then SDI behind him and do whatever you like.
Yeah like Chair already said, Bike goes through his SHDL. Don't get too predictable with it though !
You once claimed that it was easy and that you knew how it is done or something like that.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
btw if your SDI on his jab isnt super awesome and only decent dont try to punish with aerials but instead turnaround a bite
^why not a fart?
Okay. Falco has many ways of dealing with Wario. He's got many, and I'm really meaning MANY good moves to dust Wario off. He has a really quick and disjointed jab, really good up-tilt to knock us back (if we are approaching from above) and a really annoying nair which is hard to beat/escape. I find those moves really good to keep Wario off Falco. Both can CG but it's easier for Falco to CG than it is for Wario. Falco's grab is a plain pain because it is disjointed. Falco's lasers makes us approach him, but the bike can suck them up. But it's a downside with that too since Falco can just use his annoying reflector to knock us of the bike. So we must approach smartly. Getting Falco offstage and in the air is good, so we don't have to deal with his ground game so much. Try to gimp him and read him for punishes. Btw, Falco can CG us to the edge, grab-release us to dair, so be sure to NOT let the bike be on the ground!
The tires in this MU isn't that great since Falco can easily reflect them, and if Falco gets the tires then we really have a serious problem. However, they are good at blocking Falco's phantasm and get those glide toss thingies!
For me it seems like the MU goes often like this: Falco lasers camps > Wario approaches > Falco's quick attacks like jab, up-tilt, nair, grab etc will dust us off > Wario must find a new way to approach or punish it. This MU is more for the poking/punishing game I think. I really hate his up-tilt and nair (and CG obviously). Falco is one of the most cheap and annoying characters in the game. Falco's (disjointed) range and quick attacks is a problem for Wario. Thank goodness for the great dair and fair Wario got, they are great tools for Wario. -1 for Wario.
EDIT: Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14500937#post14500937
TheReflexWonder: 0
xzx: -1
Okay. Falco has many ways of dealing with Wario. He's got many, and I'm really meaning MANY good moves to dust Wario off. He has a really quick and disjointed jab, really good up-tilt to knock us back (if we are approaching from above) and a really annoying nair which is hard to beat/escape. I find those moves really good to keep Wario off Falco. Both can CG but it's easier for Falco to CG than it is for Wario. Falco's grab is a plain pain because it is disjointed. Falco's lasers makes us approach him, but the bike can suck them up. But it's a downside with that too since Falco can just use his annoying reflector to knock us of the bike. So we must approach smartly. Getting Falco offstage and in the air is good, so we don't have to deal with his ground game so much. Try to gimp him and read him for punishes. Btw, Falco can CG us to the edge, grab-release us to dair, so be sure to NOT let the bike be on the ground!
The tires in this MU isn't that great since Falco can easily reflect them, and if Falco gets the tires then we really have a serious problem. However, they are good at blocking Falco's phantasm and get those glide toss thingies!
For me it seems like the MU goes often like this: Falco lasers camps > Wario approaches > Falco's quick attacks like jab, up-tilt, nair, grab etc will dust us off > Wario must find a new way to approach or punish it. This MU is more for the poking/punishing game I think. I really hate his up-tilt and nair (and CG obviously). Falco is one of the most cheap and annoying characters in the game. Falco's (disjointed) range and quick attacks is a problem for Wario. Thank goodness for the great dair and fair Wario got, they are great tools for Wario. -1 for Wario.
EDIT: Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14500937#post14500937
TheReflexWonder: 0
xzx: -1
One-Up
Smash Apprentice
I use bike alot agaisnt falco, but i try not to be predictible. also bite...