Wario's Match-Ups!

Lord Chair

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With proper SDI, Blizzard doesn't lead into grab unless IC somehow expect you to jump right into it and have the available Ice Climber rush straight in to grab you right away. Misread means free heavy punish.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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Again, it is +1 or +2 depending on the stagelist, there is no way in hell it is even. The only stages Wario can effectively run away are SV, Lylat, and Castle Siege (Maybe PS1). If you are in a stagelist with 3 neutrals (FD, BF, SV) ICs should be winning game 1 and counterpicking SOMEWHERE to win game 3. If it is a 5 neutral list, we still get an advantage with either FD, BF, or Yoshis, but less so than if it was just FD or BF. ICs should be winning game 1 either way.

I'll go to +1 for now, but I'm not saying it's even...because it isn't.
 

Lord Chair

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I don't see how he cannot camp on BF, Halberd, Yoshi's and Delfino. I'd say Lylat is even harder than those stages considering the limited amount of space each platform offers him to land on (whereas on BF he can always opt to skip a platform and take the next one, smart biking even means his bike bounces offstage whereas on Lylat it's often not possible to bike away without giving it up until it's destroyed).
 

Player-1

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Jebu: +1
xzx: -1
Croi: +1
FreESAM: -2
TheSaintKai: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Lord Chair: -1
Ruinn: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Iridescent: -1
Iota: 0
BPx: -1
Labernash: -1
LzR: -1
Anragon: 0

you forgot me xzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx
 

-LzR-

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Actually, Blizzard rarely leads to grab thanks to it's freezing and SDI stuff. It's simply a strong wall that is kinda hard to beat and does a lot of damage. Use tires for this one imo.

And I almost always punish Jebu trying to bike through my Blizzard since I do a nair or bair with the other climber to hit you out of the bike. You shouldn't get grabbed this way, but you still get hit and lose your bike.

Edit: oh this was posted to xzx. I didn't notice there was another page already. Sorry guys.
 

xzx

Smash Lord
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@Player-1: More than that please! =P But are you saying that Wario has +1 in this MU? I can't see why...

@LzR: Yeah, but if ICs are desynching their blizzard Nana could easily grab Wario out of it. If both ICs are using blizzard then Wario should use the bike, otherwise no.

Jebu: +1
xzx: -1
Croi: +1
FreESAM: -1
TheSaintKai: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Lord Chair: -1
Ruinn: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Iridescent: -1
Iota: 0
BPx: -1
Labernash: -1
LzR: -1
Anragon: 0
 

Tesh

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Again, it is +1 or +2 depending on the stagelist, there is no way in hell it is even. The only stages Wario can effectively run away are SV, Lylat, and Castle Siege (Maybe PS1). If you are in a stagelist with 3 neutrals (FD, BF, SV) ICs should be winning game 1 and counterpicking SOMEWHERE to win game 3. If it is a 5 neutral list, we still get an advantage with either FD, BF, or Yoshis, but less so than if it was just FD or BF. ICs should be winning game 1 either way.

I'll go to +1 for now, but I'm not saying it's even...because it isn't.
Will you be going to SKATAR? I don't think the US knows how good Wario can be. The best Warios are in Japan and Europe.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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I'll be at SKTAR. However, I'ma go PIkachu since I'm more in control with that character as a whole and I'm godlike, + People keep *****ing I don't go PIkachu enough @_@
 

-LzR-

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@LzR: Yeah, but if ICs are desynching their blizzard Nana could easily grab Wario out of it. If both ICs are using blizzard then Wario should use the bike, otherwise no.
No. That doesn't work. You cannot really expect to be able to grab someone out of Blizzard. And who uses synced Blizzard?
 

Lord Chair

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Will you be going to SKATAR? I don't think the US knows how good Wario can be. The best Warios are in Japan and Europe.
I would dare say that unless Glutonny decides to step it up after his last performance, Reflex is the best Wario in the world.

He'll step it up though. Japan is too smart to play Wario and besides Glutonny, Europe doesn't have top level Warios. The States should be most experienced with the character considering every other top player seems to have a Wario secondary.
 

xzx

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No. That doesn't work. You cannot really expect to be able to grab someone out of Blizzard. And who uses synced Blizzard?
Yep, that do work. I saw Vinnie C do a Nana fair > Popo blizzard > Nana grab > Cg. Ice Climbers can grab you in a blizzard. Oh, and Vinnie C sometimes desynch blizzard.
 

Croi

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Isn't there, like, just one Japanese player that uses Wario in singles? I heard they like him for doubles but he's very rare for singles.
 

Pwneroni

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Abadango is a pretty legit Wario player. Just wished he used tires more! Japanese + smart tires..... ohhh baby that would be sexy.
 

-LzR-

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Yep, that do work. I saw Vinnie C do a Nana fair > Popo blizzard > Nana grab > Cg. Ice Climbers can grab you in a blizzard. Oh, and Vinnie C sometimes desynch blizzard.
Well then that is something I don't understand. My opponents just SDI out of it or simply freeze.
 

One-Up

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Japan doesnt use wario in singles... thats just dumb. u cant ban FD.and theres barley any good CPs for him :/ In Arizona(where i live) we use japanese ruleset, it sucks... thank god we have only a few good players so i have more of a chance to do well in tournies. ahahahah
 

xzx

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Well then that is something I don't understand. My opponents just SDI out of it or simply freeze.
I think when someone is struck with it in the most inner part, it is very hard to SDI out of it. Or, I don't know.

But do everyone agree that I put the ICs as -1 for us? The next one we will be discussing is Falco.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Even overall, probably. Chaingrab is nice for both sides; we can deal hefty damage to him on individual hits, and getting him in a position to have to make a decision isn't terribly difficult. Lasers are a threat to approaching him, but not to our health.
 

xzx

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Can you please link me that one video when you Chain grabbed a Falco? I find buffering Wario's broken D-throw really difficult... especially on Falco.

TheReflexWonder: 0
 

Jebu-95

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His main killers are Up-Smash and Bair. Learn to avoid them and be sure to space outside of his hyphen u-smash range if you're at kill %. If he CG's you, get ready to SDI the spike. Having to recover with the bike from below is a terrible place for Wario to be in this MU.
Learn to CG (I should do this too. LzR you need to help me with this D: ) and practice different set-ups that can lead to the grab.
If you know that he is going to recover with side-B to the stage, use Dair. Dair always beats his side-B. You could even try to f-smash if you're good at timing it (it wont beat the first 1/4 of his side-b range though). If he fully jabs you then SDI behind him and do whatever you like.
Yeah like Chair already said, Bike goes through his SHDL. Don't get too predictable with it though !

You once claimed that it was easy and that you knew how it is done or something like that.
 

-LzR-

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How could I help you with chaingrabbing Falco? o_o
I can only use the cool chaingrabs you know...
/ontopic
 

xzx

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^why not a fart?

Okay. Falco has many ways of dealing with Wario. He's got many, and I'm really meaning MANY good moves to dust Wario off. He has a really quick and disjointed jab, really good up-tilt to knock us back (if we are approaching from above) and a really annoying nair which is hard to beat/escape. I find those moves really good to keep Wario off Falco. Both can CG but it's easier for Falco to CG than it is for Wario. Falco's grab is a plain pain because it is disjointed. Falco's lasers makes us approach him, but the bike can suck them up. But it's a downside with that too since Falco can just use his annoying reflector to knock us of the bike. So we must approach smartly. Getting Falco offstage and in the air is good, so we don't have to deal with his ground game so much. Try to gimp him and read him for punishes. Btw, Falco can CG us to the edge, grab-release us to dair, so be sure to NOT let the bike be on the ground!

The tires in this MU isn't that great since Falco can easily reflect them, and if Falco gets the tires then we really have a serious problem. However, they are good at blocking Falco's phantasm and get those glide toss thingies!

For me it seems like the MU goes often like this: Falco lasers camps > Wario approaches > Falco's quick attacks like jab, up-tilt, nair, grab etc will dust us off > Wario must find a new way to approach or punish it. This MU is more for the poking/punishing game I think. I really hate his up-tilt and nair (and CG obviously). Falco is one of the most cheap and annoying characters in the game. Falco's (disjointed) range and quick attacks is a problem for Wario. Thank goodness for the great dair and fair Wario got, they are great tools for Wario. -1 for Wario.

EDIT: Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14500937#post14500937


TheReflexWonder: 0
xzx: -1
 

Labernash

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^why not a fart?
Perfect shield. :(


I hate Falco. Every character I play, I hate Falco.

So I'll say 0 because we don't do anything awesome that he doesn't do to us. Also, we don't die, and we can't get an easy set up to get kill, ourselves.
 

xzx

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But not if Falco is continuing or we SDI really fast! ;P
Yeah, I feel your pain, I hate him too.


TheReflexWonder: 0
xzx: -1
Labernash: 0
 

Labernash

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,674
Well, like Chair said, if our SDI isn't super awesome, bite is ideal. If you pop behind him as soon as the Turbo Jab starts, do what you want!
 
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