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Wario Video & Critique Thread -- Diamond City Theater

Lord Chair

Lord Chair

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Just avoid platforms against Wolf, really. I don't think Halberd and Delfino are all that good, either. I could see PS1 and Frigate do well, as well as CS.
 
Croi

Croi

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I've been meaning to say, Reflex: who records the Alabama Smash League videos? Tell them that if they absolutely must record the audio in only one channel, to make it mono instead of stereo. **** is disproportionately annoying.
 
CsxMark

CsxMark

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TheReflexWonder said:
Help me to lose fewer times--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuHEp0mTfA
Click to expand...
Lord Chair said:
dont ever end up on BF against wolf (or yoshis :p)

doesnt the CG on wolf work from 20%+?

note that whenever he did a ground>air transition (FH aerials, FH shine) he'd airdodge back to the ground, you kept trying to punish it when you were in a position in which that just wasnt realistically possible, this is what bothers me about the wolf MU too: too often its too difficult to punish something you hard read because you have to space away so much you cant actually punish mistakes all that well

jump less

generally i feel like you played the MU too fast considering the stages you were playing on, platforms are especially bad because a main strength of wario is threatening with committed dair approaches, if wolf is given cover against that he becomes really hard to touch, his fair is really broken and the character seems designed to be frustrating to punish

the gameplay seemed very linear and not really respecting the different aspects of the MU, you didnt even get to the point of getting frustrated with certain walls (like fair) or wolfs shield pressure game (which should at some point have to be faced, you cant keep jumping!)

its actually a really hard and tedious matchup to play and learn, ending up on sv/lylat/fd wouldve done a lot for your and i dont know why you ended up counterpicking yoshis (provided this is a tournament set, i guess it isnt?)
Click to expand...
In certain parts of that vid it looked like you over committed to something while in the air and froze your aerial mobility. And he punished you a lot from it.

When I play wario (which I haven't played a lot of) I always take them to stages with platforms considering the air is where wario dominates, and make a wall of bair/fair/lazer.

Stay on the ground more and bait wolf into the air. This is something I recently managed to overcome since I got destroyed in the air by everyone and I was wondering why... Punish Wolf's landing. It's terrible. Only thing he can really do is nair and shine which both suck against Wario/MK grab range if it's PS'd or OoS. Also depending on the direction he's facing he can do bair but meh that's not a very punishable situation so just back out.
Jump approaching wolf isn't smart either since we have a SH Fair and it works wonders on jumpers.

Idk what else to say. I don't have much experience on both sides of this MU even if I main and use both of these characters in tournament.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Yeah, I suck at landing farts.
I thought you had to airdodge/spotdodge alot with Wario while jumping until you land a hit.

Thanks.
 
Waymas

Waymas

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i got a tourney this weekend wish me luck im gonna fight TKD ,addy and some others finest from my country mexico :)
 
Waymas

Waymas

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jnig you need to add the cg (for falco) on your game this will give you more advantage on this MU . Camp the hell out of him if u can at early % so u dont get tons of damage . Also keep in mind he can only kill u with usmash or fsmash since bair will kill you at 160%. Forgot to add something also.. di those jabs and the spike too :)
 
DMG

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Only have a few comments:

I didn't like the first CP to BF. I dunno what your stage list was, but that stage is not good for Wario vs MK Marth in teams. I tend to ban BF vs Marth in teams because there's not a lot of room to deal with how safe he is, and the platforms get in the way. It wasn't too bad because your partner was a MK, but yeah.

You had a few kills on MK where he was open during tornado to die from fart. After you lost your first stock, around 1:30 he's sweeping near you with Tornado and you're respawning. He doesn't have enough time to get away, if you dropped down and farted or Fsmashed him he was toast. A big thing in general is to punish Tornado vs MK at kill % if he's not doing it in an incredibly safe manner. Say trying to Tornado your partner for more damage. You notice that, get close, chances are he's not gonna realize what you're thinking and you swoop in BAM whack him good. I have to do that a lot vs Dojo for example to keep things close in teams when he's too busy ****** Dphat lol.

Also vs Marth in teams, even though his partner is MK, I think your best strat is to double team Marth. You guys had too much 1 v 1 with you getting Marth and him getting MK. Even if you don't have a ton of time, you gotta try to pick on Marth a bit imo. It sucks because Wario doesn't do that great vs either character in teams, you'd probably rather face G&W in teams than Marth if he's got MK behind him.
 
TheReflexWonder

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Croi said:
I've been meaning to say, Reflex: who records the Alabama Smash League videos? Tell them that if they absolutely must record the audio in only one channel, to make it mono instead of stereo. **** is disproportionately annoying.
Click to expand...
Is there a way to do that that doesn't involve copying and modifying it as an audio file, muting the video, and putting the new audio file over it?
 
Croi

Croi

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Yes, you record with both the white and red audio jacks in the capture card :I

Otherwise I don't really think so...what do you do, just record the video and then post it onto Youtube raw, without any editing other than splicing them together?
 
Croi

Croi

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xzx

xzx

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> Never ever land near Olimar. (You tended to air dodge into his (pivot) grabs a lot.)

> Tires and the bike are great as projectiles against Olimar. The tires will kill all "Pikmin tossed" Pikmin and refresh your moves too! That's not all. The tires will keep bouncing if they hit Pikmin after Pikmin! However, I think the purple Pikmin eliminates the tires... Bike are good for edge guarding Olimar.

> Use more fair! Weave in and out with it. Its hitbox placement is really good against Olimar, since he's so small. Approach more with fair.

> D-tilt is a surprise frame 5 move that will surprise your opponent. It's quick. Use it after a nair, for example. (You grabbed instead which is also good.)

> Waft is #1 kill move. Olimar is hard to hit otherwise so every waft should be taken into account. I saw one opportunity where you could have used waft. But yeah, it's a hit or miss move.

> When you are covered with Pikmin, don't use up-air. =P Staling it is not good. Use up-tilt instead. Up-tilt will remove every Pikmin effectively from your body! Well, not if they are on Wario's feet maybe...

> DACUS. I saw you used it only once, and it was a success. DACUS is a quick ranging attack on the ground that covers up much room. Use it more often! Don't be too predictable with it though, since Olimar can grab you out of it.

> Olimar hates being in the air and offstage. When you grab him, use up-throw and then "chase" him in the air and try to bait his air dodges and use a waft/up-air to punish it! However, f-throw is the most damaging throw Wario has, so inflicting as much damage as possible is quite important against Olimar too.

> The most important thing is that you discover things on your own. I'm not saying that asking for help is bad, but for me experience is more important than reading what you should do in a MU. Gain experience! =)
 
Tesh

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Yea, I would say you definitely don't want to Dthrow Olimar under normal circumstances. You are gambling away your advantage because if he picks the right option he is back on the ground where he loves to be. I would always fthrow or bthrow him, so he is offstage and above you.

When you get him offstage, you can edgecrash your bike to stop him doing that uair nonsense. If he tries it even once, you will have plenty of time to just go around him and stagespike without a read.
 
Iota

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xzx said:
> Never ever land near Olimar. (You tended to air dodge into his (pivot) grabs a lot.)

Agreed.


> Tires and the bike are great as projectiles against Olimar. The tires will kill all "Pikmin tossed" Pikmin and refresh your moves too! That's not all. The tires will keep bouncing if they hit Pikmin after Pikmin! However, I think the purple Pikmin eliminates the tires... Bike are good for edge guarding Olimar.

Tires are an ineffective pressuring tool vs Olimar unless he's on the ledge. They're useful for increasing your options for punishing him though. Second statement is correct, and purple pikmin do eliminate tires. Agreed about bike, it's somwhat situational though.

> Use more fair! Weave in and out with it. Its hitbox placement is really good against Olimar, since he's so small. Approach more with fair.

Agreed.

> D-tilt is a surprise frame 5 move that will surprise your opponent. It's quick. Use it after a nair, for example. (You grabbed instead which is also good.)

Agreed.

> Waft is #1 kill move. Olimar is hard to hit otherwise so every waft should be taken into account. I saw one opportunity where you could have used waft. But yeah, it's a hit or miss move.

Agreed.

> When you are covered with Pikmin, don't use up-air. =P Staling it is not good. Use up-tilt instead. Up-tilt will remove every Pikmin effectively from your body! Well, not if they are on Wario's feet maybe...

U-tilt doesn't get rid of all Pikmin, and it's slower than uair so you'll still end up taking damage from the pikmin and possibly frame lock yourself into a punish from Olimar. In situations where uair is useful, you'll probably have already refreshed it with pummels.

> DACUS. I saw you used it only once, and it was a success. DACUS is a quick ranging attack on the ground that covers up much room. Use it more often! Don't be too predictable with it though, since Olimar can grab you out of it.

Olimar can also f-smash, and d-smash you out of it. If he shields it's a free JC u-smash for him, and if he SDI's it it's a free bair for him. Most Olimar's won't react to so don't be too worried about getting punished though.

> Olimar hates being in the air and offstage. When you grab him, use up-throw and then "chase" him in the air and try to bait his air dodges and use a waft/up-air to punish it! However, f-throw is the most damaging throw Wario has, so inflicting as much damage as possible is quite important against Olimar too.

U-throw is definitely a useful mix-up vs Olimar.

> The most important thing is that you discover things on your own. I'm not saying that asking for help is bad, but for me experience is more important than reading what you should do in a MU. Gain experience! =)
Click to expand...

Made corrections or added on to things that I disagreed with or that I thought needed more to it. To add to what Tesh and xzx said...you don't camp enough. You were basically constantly approaching Olimar after the first few seconds, which is a generally bad idea. Basically in this MU you want to weave inbetween this side-bs and wait for the right oppurtunity in your opinion to poke at him with nair, dair, or fair. If he tries to hit you with uair when you're camping, SDI out of it then punish him with w/e aerial you want. There's more to then this but I'm too lazy to state the rest. lol
 
Tesh

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Yea I wouldn't worry about staling Uair. Its slow enough for Olimar to whistle it if you are trying to kill with it, and pikmin give you plenty of chances to unstale whatever you want.

I'd never use a ground move to remove pikmin unless olimar is really far away. Hitlag= free grab.


But yea, just be more patient for openings. It got to the point where he was just pivot grabbing and throwing stuff out and you were like gravitating towards him. Olimar is NOT a combo character. If you are past 50%, he shouldn't be hitting you consecutively often.
 
Iota

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Dacus has the same problem getting pikmin off as u-tilt. Seriously you should only be trying to use uair or tires for pikmin. Pretty much every other option is too valuable to stale or doesn't get all the pikmin off of you.

:phone:
 
xzx

xzx

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But what - I use up-tilt (on a safe spot) to remove Pikmin and almost always every Pikmin will get off after one or two up-tilts. I don't see a problem with using up-tilt, since it will refresh your moves too. Just air dodge to the ground and up-tilt them away. If Olimar is throwing more Pikmin at you (while you are on the ground), just spot dodge to up-tilt. At least, it works for me.
 
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