Vs. IC

[riocosta123]

Since the guide hasn't finished this part I thought I'd ask you guys about what to do against Ice Climbers.

This is probably harder for me than any of the other people because I can't grab them + combos and they play extremely low to the ground which makes aerials a little harder to hit and let's not forget grab ****.

Also, I think nearly all of their attacks beat yours with the the disjointed hitbox, but I guess that's nothing new for Falcon -_-;

So yeah, I don't really know what to do in regards to approaching them. Camp?

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

Basically, he doesn't stand a chance. =)

 

[SaltyKracka]

You have no chance to survive make your time.

Hahahaha.

 

[Zeallyx]

number one concern against IC:
Don't get grabbed

 

[wangston]

Run from them. Jabbing works unless they power shield then you are gong to get grabbed. If the do the fair spike off the edge, jump cancel, then use upb and you will survive until around 60+ I think. If they grab you at high % and you see them charging up a smash try to break out of the grab but also make sure you use proper DI and you will live to 150+. Also if you can camp at the edge of the stage do it, that way they can't roll behind you. Your multi jab is great but if you get power shield you are out of luck. You can SH over them and dairing while you do it. But really all this match comes down to is not getting grabbed, and making sure not to get killed from bad DI or messing up a jumpcancel.

 

[riocosta123]

If you're playing against a campy IC do you try and approach somewhere or do you just pray they finally give up and go after you?

I say this because the main person I play is one of the most campy people I've known, and will literally remain in his stance for minutes. Even if he as a ridiculous matchup like playing Wolf against Ganondorf or something, if he feels he's about to lose he goes into omni-camp mode.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

First check for any approach openings. If not (which is likely) wait until they give in and approach you. Brawl seems to be a test of patience and timing. If you have both of these the ICs should be a little less painful.

 

[riocosta123]

Thanks. I really hate being on the defensive, since my nature is to be very aggressive, but I guess I'll just bite the bullet on this one.

 

[Rapzz]

Eliminate Nana.

 

[Wogrim]

Eliminate Nana.

If at all possible, do this.

The best thing to do is to separate them. Note that although you can only grab one of them, the grab hit and throw hitboxes will hit the other one if nearby. The best ways to separate them are usually throws. Once you get them to different percents (Nana's shield seems to come up after Popo's so you'll usually get her to higher percents easier) the same hit on both of them will give different knockback and they'll get separated. At this point, you can't completely ignore Popo (fend him off with UAirs and stuff) but you should mainly try to smash/gimp Nana. If Popo does something stupid while trying to get back to Nana you can kill him pretty easily, otherwise make sure to kill Nana and then with a safe game (it's not easy yet) you can knock off Popo and he'll have poor recovery besides side-B. Falcon Dive is really awesome against that move and will help you kill him pretty easily once you get him offstage.

In this matchup grabbed = die (unless you get lucky but don't count on it)

Also, Frost Breath basically ***** any approach so I don't really know what to do about it.

 

[Ville]

As mentioned already, the key is to seperate them.
This either works with throws or, as i experienced with the Nair.
If you Nair while they are in the air, it's likely to happen that one just drops off and the other one gets juggled.
When seperated, it's really easy to gimp Nana, since her movement is pretty robotic and farseeable.
There's one golden attack vs the IC's anyway: the Utilt.
It has a great range and if spaced correctly you can attack without the risc of being shieldgrabbed.
Another very useful attack is the Dtilt, it has good range, but the main point is that it throws them into the air directly in front of you, like some Dthrow (what you won't pull off very often against them).
Never, or maybe with some exceptions, use Falcon Kick or Raptorboost because they are SO easily shieldgrabbed and have low priority.

 

[Z1GMA]

Falcon pawnch Nana when they're separeted!

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Ok, get them desynced and then toss nana away. Try to knock either nana up high, or popo onto the ground so he has to get up. This way, you can attack nana far easier. Make sure to keep juggling nana, she rarely ever airdodges. If popo gets close, DON'T LET HIM GET CLOSE TO NANA or his airdodge may trigger hers as well, and they'll be synced again.

As for Ice Breath thingy, I like to drop a DAIR on them. This is one of the few matchups I've used dair alot successfully.

And if you're playing a good IC... don't get grabbed. *shudders at the thought*

 

[riocosta123]

I beat him today. thx doodz

I found SH dair to be pretty good at punishing their attacks, plus it desynched. I like that better than nair or bair at low percents against this person.

I still haven't been able to work in the up tilt because it has a long start up time but I'll try to use it. Dtilt worked pretty well though.

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Eliminate Nana.

I agree with this strongly, as the original power of the IC's will be halved! You could try and stay above them to attempt variations of Dairs then Knee, works very good on high percentages! I cannot garuntee this 'stay above' concept, but I'm sure it will work wonders if you try. Just take the Dair lagg into account.

 

[Ayaz18]

I get TONS of IC practice from millar and my bro

first thing to do is to counter pick (if you can) to a good stage like norfair. If you can't just remember to do nothing stupid. If you have platforms, keep the icies on them and don't let them off. In terms of an approach use Dair or the SHAD, seriously zero lag is what you need for the match-up. when they are separated f*ck trying to kill popo, just gimp the **** out of nana, then own popo, it's worth it

 

[Stafy]

I usually kill Nana first, but i HAVE been exposed to their infinite grab. They're still not a problem to me if you keep running and gimping them as fast as you can.

EDIT: Plus I heard from my friend FD is the worse place to face IC.

 

[Thirtyfour]

Without stating the OBVIOUS.
Use falcon punch versus them when paired AND some of thier shield is DIMINISHED

SERIOUSLY the Punch goes through to the IC in the back shield half the time.
Since its two people blocking the punch at once, unless power shielded, one IC will be shield poked if your inside enough on the punch.

Going down his move set Vs ICs....

Jab.... in pairs dont try to unless you can get the pummel out. They're swordsmen with range of course they'll easily punish. FOR SPACING most of the time. After you pummel Roll back and hold your ground.
Ftilt... pretty quick, hard to land... I only use this tilt vs ICs to punish if the move is undimished and scores the 10%. Its great vs the partner since it keeps the main one busy either trying to get to you or trying to save the partner depending on the %.
Dtilt... a great set up vs single or paired ICs at high %. Great range also hits behind Falcon for rolling ICs and already seperated ICs.
Utilt... Great move thanks to thier height and size. Use versus an airborne IC or to edgeguard. it outranges thier attack from the edge if spaced right and punishes them when jumping. It also hits through thier single and duo'd tornado If spaced right.

Bair.... leads to actual combos and great for juggling. the Knee is a great finisher for paired ICs on the defense. If desynced it'll hit one and probably stay out long enough for the other to get hit as well depending on which is hit leader or partner.
Uair... I shouldnt have to get into Uair... great for edgeguarding... damage... platforms.... Uair a good falcon knows what to do with it...
Dair.. Use to diminish the shield vs grounded ICs can lead to falcon punch. The Knockback on Dair is similar to his dsmash. Use from beneath a platform and to keep an already seperated partner at bay.
Knee... GREAT if ICs are recovering from below at low %. It has sex kick properties of course either RAR it facing the stage you can can get them underneath, or use it to separate them before their recovery.
Nair... I tend to use the first hit fast falled to lead to a grab or ftilt. I dont have good times with this vs swordsmen besides DDD.

Usmash... use vs Paired ICs with diminished shields the first hit can at least separate them. Use towards landing ICs or from under a platform most of the time.
Fsmash.... The speed... Use this smash attack to rack up damage vs a partner since it cant shield when separated.
DSMASH.... I cant put into words. If you know this match up and know when to use this attack you should be fine. If not abuse this attack if your dealing with an IC that has powershielding down. It's range gives you time to avoid being grabbed afterwards. Also versus the partner when he's running past you charge the dsmash facing him/her so he's hit by both attacks at low %. Easy.... 40+ damage?

Raptor Boost... ICs can punish this one easy with just about anything. Very situational. Use vs Landing ICs or vs the partner...
Falcon Kick.... coming down from an angle airborne from a high height or low can lead to separating the ICs since up close this can hit right beneath thier shields if the first attack is blocked. From the ground falcon kick is great is used after a missed grab or towards the partner since the distance traveled after this attack lands is great for chasing after ICs after they're hit by this.
Falcon Dive.... great move.... versus airborne ICs or... again from under a platform. Not great out of shield since they're swordsmen and arent easy to hit with this if you dont powershield. Also good for using while they're recovering with the tornado you can grab one of them with the start of the dive easily if spaced right of course.

This match up isnt impossible if you know how to pressure them into shielding and how to BRAWL COMBO using the partner for extended hitbox time.