Vote for Melee at Evo 2015!

[Elegant]

You're honestly just taking it upon yourself to be offended; the closest I have every come to insult you is purely through implication or speculation. The question your are asking is very non sequitur and, furthermore, doesn't apply to my quote when it is in its correct context.

Lol okay, whatever makes you sleep better at night.

 

[81u3]

Voted for melee!!

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Melee is a very developed game. Melee, IMO, deserves the spot. Project M doesn't have as big of a charm is the official entries, as everything is intentional and there is nothing to discover. A new smash game with mechanics crossed over from melee, and some new ones on top of that, would be amazing.

 

[Walbytamer11]

I honestly cannot see the validity of supporting Smash 4 at EVO. It's way too difficult to wrap my head around. Let me firstly say that I play Melee mostly but have bought a new 3DSXL just to experience Sm4sh (This might not seem like it matters but I'm a kid without a job and emptied my wallet for it lol).

I love the smash series (shoutouts to Sakurai), but there is no reason for Sm4sh to be at EVO from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. Business wise, you can't go wrong; it's an opportunity of gold. Nintendo is sponsoring these tournaments left and right for a reason. It's not for the community, it's for the paper $$.

Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO so it can shine? Is that seriously a point that is attempted to be backed up? I was a late bloomer compared to the vets, starting in early 2012, but if my memory serves correctly the SSBM community didn't develop overnight. If Smash 4 is a game with competitive viability, the community can (and will) make it thrive. Brawl was featured at EVO and even if there are an amount of players that still play, it's just another piece of evidence that eradicates the reasoning that EVO can make a game, less fit for competitive play, viable.

The entire point of having a tournament is to see who's the best, right? We have our share of "Gods" but you don't think that this new, undeveloped meta will make due for any kind of skewed results either? Without a developed meta people certainly have a one up on others, the gap is HUGE. Everyone might think they have a decent chance in the tournament, but there have been numerous tournaments with a pattern. Dabuz, Vinnie, Nairo (all Brawl veterans...weird) have done well. This could (MAYBE) be a valid point if the tournament was held day one, prior to any gameplay being released. Now you might argue that matchup knowledge and adaptation are required to gain an advantage in the competition but there isn't any sense of stability with Sm4sh. What if a technique as controversial as wobbling comes out? How will EVO deal with that? It's way too risky to put a game with such limited knowledge and entertainment value at this point to take a main spot in the biggest fighting game tournament series.

Baseball? Invented in 1839
Chess? Well a simple Google search says it was invented in the 6th century AD.

People still get into these games and develop plans and strategies and mindgames and everything else we find in Smash.

IDK how people can become frustrated that we play a game that we ENJOY which also just happens to be old. 64 players, play 64! Melee players, play Melee! Brawl players, play Brawl!, PM players, play PM damn it! And those of you who are excited for Smash 4, play it! Give it time and everything will be okay.

 

[Elegant]

I honestly cannot see the validity of supporting Smash 4 at EVO. It's way too difficult to wrap my head around. Let me firstly say that I play Melee mostly but have bought a new 3DSXL just to experience Sm4sh (This might not seem like it matters but I'm a kid without a job and emptied my wallet for it lol).

I love the smash series (shoutouts to Sakurai), but there is no reason for Sm4sh to be at EVO from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. Business wise, you can't go wrong; it's an opportunity of gold. Nintendo is sponsoring these tournaments left and right for a reason. It's not for the community, it's for the paper $$.

Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO so it can shine? Is that seriously a point that is attempted to be backed up? I was a late bloomer compared to the vets, starting in early 2012, but if my memory serves correctly the SSBM community didn't develop overnight. If Smash 4 is a game with competitive viability, the community can (and will) make it thrive. Brawl was featured at EVO and even if there are an amount of players that still play, it's just another piece of evidence that eradicates the reasoning that EVO can make a game, less fit for competitive play, viable.

The entire point of having a tournament is to see who's the best, right? We have our share of "Gods" but you don't think that this new, undeveloped meta will make due for any kind of skewed results either? Without a developed meta people certainly have a one up on others, the gap is HUGE. Everyone might think they have a decent chance in the tournament, but there have been numerous tournaments with a pattern. Dabuz, Vinnie, Nairo (all Brawl veterans...weird) have done well. This could (MAYBE) be a valid point if the tournament was held day one, prior to any gameplay being released. Now you might argue that matchup knowledge and adaptation are required to gain an advantage in the competition but there isn't any sense of stability with Sm4sh. What if a technique as controversial as wobbling comes out? How will EVO deal with that? It's way too risky to put a game with such limited knowledge and entertainment value at this point to take a main spot in the biggest fighting game tournament series.

Baseball? Invented in 1839
Chess? Well a simple Google search says it was invented in the 6th century AD.

People still get into these games and develop plans and strategies and mindgames and everything else we find in Smash.

IDK how people can become frustrated that we play a game that we ENJOY which also just happens to be old. 64 players, play 64! Melee players, play Melee! Brawl players, play Brawl!, PM players, play PM damn it! And those of you who are excited for Smash 4, play it! Give it time and everything will be okay.

You've completely missed the mark on this and are now contributing to a post that is dead trying to stir more **** up.

"Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO"
And your last paragraph.

Reread then repost and I'll post back to fill you in on all the **** you obviously still won't have read.

 

[MookieRah]

Or perhaps Elegant that's just his opinion that was unmoved by your opinion? You seem to act as if you are right and/or there is a "right" way to do this.

 

[Elegant]

He

Or perhaps Elegant that's just his opinion that was unmoved by your opinion? You seem to act as if you are right and/or there is a "right" way to do this.

Whatever you say. He's trying to put words in my mouth and start **** like 1Mach, and look at how that went for him.

"Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO"
I never said this.

"IDK how people can become frustrated that we play a game that we ENJOY which also just happens to be old. 64 players, play 64! Melee players, play Melee! Brawl players, play Brawl!, PM players, play PM damn it! And those of you who are excited for Smash 4, play it! Give it time and everything will be okay."
I'm not frustrated that people play games they enjoy. But the unwillingness to try something new is absurd.

You have the wrong opinion of me, I'm not acting as if I'm right, I'm trying to say that not giving a game a CHANCE is the wrong way to look at things.

 

[MookieRah]

Whatever you say. He's trying to put words in my mouth and start **** like 1Mach, and look at how that went for him.

Did something happen that I'm not aware of? I'm a bit confused as to what you are referencing here. If you are insinuating that you out-debated him or something... no, you didn't.

"Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO"
I never said this.

He never said you did.

I'm not frustrated that people play games they enjoy. But the unwillingness to try something new is absurd.

Where does it show his unwillingness to try something new? He spent all of his allowance to buy Sm4sh 3DS. Your unwillingness to see anything outside of your own perspective is the thing that's absurd.

You have the wrong opinion of me, I'm not acting as if I'm right, I'm trying to say that not giving a game a CHANCE is the wrong way to look at things.

On one hand you say that you never claim that Sm4sh deserves to be at EVO, but on the other hand you basically say that everyone else is wrong to not give it a chance. You constantly defend Sm4sh in this thread and calling people absurd for their opinions, but the moment anything is directed at you (or in this case that you just thought they directed it at you) you are quick to say you never said it deserves a spot and that they are putting words in your mouth. You are either very confused about your actual position, or you are a troll. Either way, your posts are full of crap.

 

[Walbytamer11]

He

Whatever you say. He's trying to put words in my mouth and start **** like 1Mach, and look at how that went for him.

"Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO"
I never said this.

"IDK how people can become frustrated that we play a game that we ENJOY which also just happens to be old. 64 players, play 64! Melee players, play Melee! Brawl players, play Brawl!, PM players, play PM damn it! And those of you who are excited for Smash 4, play it! Give it time and everything will be okay."
I'm not frustrated that people play games they enjoy. But the unwillingness to try something new is absurd.

You have the wrong opinion of me, I'm not acting as if I'm right, I'm trying to say that not giving a game a CHANCE is the wrong way to look at things.

I don't think I...quoted you?

Perhaps the thread derailed, sure, but I can't help but post about SSBM vs Sm4sh in a "Vote for SSBM (as opposed to Sm4sh)" thread. I don't see a parallel between sending a game to EVO and giving it a shot. My post was made entirely to elaborate on that thought in case the Sm4sh@EVO supporters stumbled upon it.

 

[Elegant]

@ MookieRah
1MachGO's problem is reading comprehension. He's said that I've said things that I haven't, and I've quoted myself and him each time, so I have nothing else to say to him.

I said this on page 1 and I'll say it again. Did I outdebate him? I never said I did but looking back I'm pretty sure I did since he stopped posting because he realized I didn't say the things he accused me of saying.

"You basically say that everyone else is wrong to not give it a chance."
I don't understand how many times I have to repeat this, and again you aren't looking at what I said. Did I say that WALBY was unwilling to try something new? NO! I said if PEOPLE are unwilling to try something new, that's absurd. Maybe you need to learn reading comprehension like 1Mach.

"You are quick to say you never said it deserves a spot and that they are putting words in your mouth."
Because they ARE putting words in my mouth. I've quoted things on the first page to prove it, and you're doing the same thing as I stated from your last post.

When Walby says "Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO so it can shine? Is that seriously a point that is attempted to be backed up?" He's obviously talking about me. Its not too hard to figure out.

If I was a troll I wouldn't keep posting here now would I. My posts aren't full of crap, I started with a ~This is what I think~ post, and now I'm having to defend myself for saying something so simple because you, along with most of the people in this thread have attacked me. If you still think I'm wrong about people attacking me you're delusional, go ahead and reply back about it if you want but then it means that you haven't followed the conversation on this thread at all.

 

[MookieRah]

The refusal to post doesn't indicate that you won in any way. His refusal to post could simply mean that there is no point in arguing with you anymore. If you think chasing someone out of a thread == winning, wow...

I don't understand how many times I have to repeat this, and again you aren't looking at what I said. Did I say that WALBY was unwilling to try something new? NO! I said if PEOPLE are unwilling to try something new, that's absurd. Maybe you need to learn reading comprehension like 1Mach.

OK, so you just spend your entire rant trying to address his post and then randomly insert something in a general sense. This is what I meant in regards to it being how you are actually constructing what you write, and that it is not the fault of people's reading comprehension. If you want to get your point across in a forum, you need to realise that you need to be very concise and clear, because most people aren't trying to read this like they would a book, they are going to skim and bounce around. You are doing that too, which is why you are attacking people on things they never said too.

Because they ARE putting words in my mouth. I've quoted things on the first page to prove it, and you're doing the same thing as I stated from your last post.

No, I'm not. I quoted things you said directly and took them point by point. I pointed out that there is some flaw in your whole viewpoint, because you are basically having your cake and eating it too. You obviously feel that Sm4sh should be at EVO, to say otherwise is pretty derp at this point, because you've done nothing but lash out at people that think it doesn't deserve a spot.

And yes, you are full of crap and everyone here knows it. The last several posts you made haven't added anything new to the discussion, and you still don't seem to understand what I and others have said regarding this. If you can't see where your logic is faulty by now, nobody can help you, and you are best just ignored.

 

[Elegant]

The refusal to post doesn't indicate that you won in any way. His refusal to post could simply mean that there is no point in arguing with you anymore. If you think chasing someone out of a thread == winning, wow...

OK, so you just spend your entire rant trying to address his post and then randomly insert something in a general sense. This is what I meant in regards to it being how you are actually constructing what you write, and that it is not the fault of people's reading comprehension. If you want to get your point across in a forum, you need to realise that you need to be very concise and clear, because most people aren't trying to read this like they would a book, they are going to skim and bounce around. You are doing that too, which is why you are attacking people on things they never said too.


No, I'm not. I quoted things you said directly and took them point by point. I pointed out that there is some flaw in your whole viewpoint, because you are basically having your cake and eating it too. You obviously feel that Sm4sh should be at EVO, to say otherwise is pretty derp at this point, because you've done nothing but lash out at people that think it doesn't deserve a spot.

And yes, you are full of crap and everyone here knows it. The last several posts you made haven't added anything new to the discussion, and you still don't seem to understand what I and others have said regarding this. If you can't see where your logic is faulty by now, nobody can help you, and you are best just ignored.

I can't believe I STILL have to repeat this. HE STOPPED POSTING BECAUSE HE REALIZED THE THINGS HE SAID THAT I SAID WERE COMPLETELY WRONG.

I didn't randomly start inserting something in a general sense. His post was as follows:
"IDK how people can become frustrated that we play a game that we ENJOY which also just happens to be old. 64 players, play 64! Melee players, play Melee! Brawl players, play Brawl!, PM players, play PM damn it! And those of you who are excited for Smash 4, play it! Give it time and everything will be okay."
This is a general statement so I supplied a general answer. Its not too hard to understand.

You are putting words in my mouth, as quoted here: "You basically say that everyone else is wrong to not give it a chance."
I'm not saying that everyone is wrong, I'm saying its absurd that people won't give a new game the chance it deserves because they still want to play an older game because people hate change. IN MY OPINION, THIS IS STUPID.

I'm not full of crap, I've defended my argument each time with multiple people attacking me, so for you to call me a load of crap is funny because I've stuck to what I've said and I haven't gone back on anything because no one here has given a valid argument, only attack what I think to be true. I haven't added anythign new to the discussion? The discussion now is a witch hunt against me lol, and I've been defending myself, what else do I need to add? My logic isn't faulty, as I said earlier you have the wrong persona about me.

I'll quote myself from earlier, "I'm not acting as if I'm right, I'm trying to say that not giving a game a CHANCE is the wrong way to look at things."

My logic isn't faulty. If a game is never given a chance to prove itself, it will never be played at a competitive level. if you disagree with that by all means tell me why, but if you want to ignore me I'm fine with that too. Unless you want to enlighten me with facts, I'm going to continue to believe that I'm right.

 

[Strong Badam]

Smash 4 should be given a chance to prove itself. That chance should not be EVO 2015.

FYI most people here have indeed tried Smash 4 and judged it more or less fairly based on its merits as a competitive fighter.

 

[MookieRah]

My logic isn't faulty. If a game is never given a chance to prove itself, it will never be played at a competitive level. if you disagree with that by all means tell me why, but if you want to ignore me I'm fine with that too. Unless you want to enlighten me with facts, I'm going to continue to believe that I'm right.

What facts? This whole thing is an OPINION thread. You either think my position has merit or don't, and that goes the same with everyone else. I can't tell you what will happen if we choose one or the other, that is speculation. I think Sm4sh doesn't deserve a spot over melee for many reasons that have already been posted.

HE STOPPED POSTING BECAUSE HE REALIZED THE THINGS HE SAID THAT I SAID WERE COMPLETELY WRONG.

Or he stopped posting because he thinks there is no point in talking to you, as you don't listen and don't understand our complaints regarding your position, attitude, and overall behaviour? To that end, I will cease debating with you as well, because it's utterly pointless. Take that as a win if you'd like, but nobody else will recognise it as such.

 

[The Soap]

"Smash 4 DESERVES to be at EVO"
I never said this.

people won't give a new game the chance it deserves

Huh

 

[Frolossus]

What audience was Melee made for? Lol. Smash 4 isn't made for a less competitive audience than Melee, they were both made for the same audience. It just so happens that Melee there were many glitches that caused the playstyle that you see now. Smash 4 isn't tailored to be less competitive, it has a different style of gameplay then you are used to.

Again an example of someone still stuck in old games not willing to try new things.

Keep the hate coming please.

how can you even begin to make the claim that we are stuck in old games?
maybe you are forgetting that brawl existed. that game was a thing at one point and there is a reason that we still play melee over it.

we've seen this entire cycle happen once already and melee won out so i fully expect it to do so again. regardless of whether or not it ends up at evo this year.

 

[1MachGO]

I said this on page 1 and I'll say it again. Did I outdebate him? I never said I did but looking back I'm pretty sure I did since he stopped posting because he realized I didn't say the things he accused me of saying.

vvvv Your last reply to me vvvv

Lol okay, whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Yep, what an argument winner. Really covered all the facts with this one. /sarcasm

I also love the irony behind accusing others for putting words into your mouth; especially when you make speculative claims about why a person stopped posting and portray them as facts.

 

[ShrieK1295]

This Elegant guy really should be banned. He's obviously trolling. No one is playing Melee because they hate change and are sticks in the mud. They play it because it offers them something that the newer Smash titles don't. To make it sound like people want Melee at Evo out of nostalgia or fear of change is laughable. To say Sm4sh should be at Evo because it deserves a chance to prove itself is also laughable. Apex is in 2 months. It's going to have plenty chance to prove itself. It's disappointing to see almost any thread about liking/supporting Melee devolve into one person or a small group of people trolling Melee fans.

 

[Elegant]

Smash 4 should be given a chance to prove itself. That chance should not be EVO 2015.

FYI most people here have indeed tried Smash 4 and judged it more or less fairly based on its merits as a competitive fighter.

This makes sense since EVO is one of the biggest events of the year. But if Smash 4 does well beforehand, it should still have a chance to make the lineup.

I think I heard Nintendo was going to sponsor EVO 2015, if this is the case they may showcase Smash 4 anyways but who knows, it would be cool to get both.


Moving to everyone else,


@ MookieRah :
You haven't debated anything really tbh, so for you to stop arguing is just doing everyone a favor. You're just flaming me just like 1Mach did.


@ The Soap :
You're taking things out of context due to not listing my whole sentence or reading previous posts. In my first post I posted,

"Although Smash 4 is the new upcoming game, I don't think that it should automatically have a spot at EVO 2015. SSBM has been growing the last few years and to throw that out the window would be ridiculous and would only push the game back farther."

And in my other post,

"You are putting words in my mouth, as quoted here: "You basically say that everyone else is wrong to not give it a chance."
I'm not saying that everyone is wrong, I'm saying its absurd that people won't give a new game the chance it deserves because they still want to play an older game because people hate change. IN MY OPINION, THIS IS STUPID."

I don't really need to explain anything else about this portion.


@ 1 1MachGO :
I won the argument after you said that I stated things, then quoted exactly what I said to prove you wrong. Then you came out with some other bull**** trying to mock me and then I said that.

"I also love the irony behind accusing others for putting words into your mouth; especially when you make speculative claims about why a person stopped posting and portray them as facts."

I've shown you guys putting words in my mouth multiple times, I don't think I have to do it again since there is already so many times I've shown this.


@ S ShrieK1295 :
"No one is playing Melee because they hate change and are sticks in the mud. They play it because it offers them something that the newer Smash titles don't."
And how do you know that it offers them something the newer Smash titles don't if no one has even played the Wii U version?

"To make it sound like people want Melee at Evo out of nostalgia or fear of change is laughable."
This is how it is for almost every new game that was picked up by MLG, or any other big event.

"This Elegant guy really should be banned. He's obviously trolling."
I'd love to know why you think that I should be banned. I'm sticking up for myself and my thoughts when I'm basically being bullied on this thread. To say that I should be banned, that's hillarious. If I should be banned, that means that everyone else on this thread should be banned as well for starting a witch hunt against me.

Great logic.

 

[1MachGO]

@ 1 1MachGO :
I won the argument after you said that I stated things, then quoted exactly what I said to prove you wrong. Then you came out with some other bull**** trying to mock me and then I said that.

"I also love the irony behind accusing others for putting words into your mouth; especially when you make speculative claims about why a person stopped posting and portray them as facts."

I've shown you guys putting words in my mouth multiple times, I don't think I have to do it again since there is already so many times I've shown this.

Haha no, I never agreed with you. You can pretend I did, but I didn't, and specified why this was the case.

Anyway, Shriek is right. Entertaining anything you have said in this thread is pointless. Either you are trolling or the most disillusioned person I've every encountered on the internet.

 

[Tagxy]

Analysis of smash 4 from E3 onwards has been hilariously bad all around. Certain game exclusive player analysis has only been worse because they like to compare smash 4 to other smash games they have little to no understanding of at a competitive level.

I'm cool with supporting melee at EVO, Im supporting the movement as well and hope to see both games there. But lets not pretend that Melee having years of development isnt the exception (not the norm) for EVO's. USFIV was let in a few months after release in spite of being less developed than its predecessor, and even Injustice a brand new series was put in a few months after release. In reality smash 4 is exactly the type of game that gets into evo, and I didnt hear any of these complaints when any of these other games were making it in. I also doubt anyone would feel these were valid complaints if they knew melee was certain to get in as well. In that sense, poking at smash 4 for this is contradictory and sidesteps the real though more difficult problem the smash community is being forced into, that EVO might force us to include only one game just because were part of the same series.

And yes Mookie game discrimination and toxic behavior is bad all around. But listening to the melee exclusives play victim when its pointed out is like listening to a white man complain about racism and sexism against white males to shake of their guilt. I mean yeah its there and its bad, but cmon now.

 

[Elegant]

Haha no, I never agreed with you. You can pretend I did, but I didn't, and specified why this was the case.

Anyway, Shriek is right. Entertaining anything you have said in this thread is pointless. Either you are trolling or the most disillusioned person I've every encountered on the internet.

You're still trying to argue and you're ignoring the post I just said because you know I'm right. You accused me of saying things that I didn't and you got served.

"Anyone interested in competitive smash PERIOD should give all the games a shot, TBH."
-1MachGO

You agreed with me.

 

[MookieRah]

Certain game exclusive player analysis has only been worse because they like to compare smash 4 to other smash games they have little to no understanding of at a competitive level.

What else is there to compare it to? Also, what competitive level do you speak of? Of course nobody can see into the future of this game, so to suggest that any sort of analysis as to how the game will play out competitively in the near future is all anyone has done or can do. That said, the core mechanics of Sm4sh do not translate into a very exciting spectator e-sport, and it is much more like Brawl than Melee. Which is why nobody in the melee community is surprised to hear that the some of the best Brawl players are now the best Sm4sh players.

But lets not pretend that Melee having years of development isnt the exception

They also received tons of support from the developers of said games. They had a financial incentive to switch. It remains to be seen if melee will have this kind of support, although I suspect it will for this one event at least. They want to push the Wii U, this would give it some exposure for very little money. It's just good marketing.

And yes Mookie game discrimination and toxic behavior is bad all around. But listening to the melee exclusives play victim when its pointed out is like listening to a white man complain about racism and sexism against white males to shake of their guilt. I mean yeah its there and its bad, but cmon now.

I never invoked racism or sexism in my post. To do so would make light of all those affected . I simply used the words minority and majority, but I'm in no way comparing this situation to those that you have mentioned.

This next part is tangental to this discussion, but I have included it in spoiler tags for those who are willing to see it.

Spoiler

Inequality is everyone's problem, and everyone should be doing their part. The majority should speak out against those who are oppressing others, but they shouldn't speak for those who are treated unjustly. For example, a man can address sexism within a community, but he shouldn't take the pedestal from a woman, or etc.

Speaking of guilt, it should be acknowledged. Guilt isn't the only motivator here. There are tons of reasons for people to try to do what they can to make the world a better place for everyone. Compassion, empathy, a strong sense of justice or fairness, are all motivators for people within the majority to want to change things. While guilt isn't the primary motivation for myself to feel the way I do, why shouldn't I feel bad for being awarded perks over others just because of some arbitrary reason? Why is that emotion considered bad? I can assure you the alternative is far worse. What if every advantaged person simply went around not caring that they have advantages over others or even gloating about their advantages more often? I don't think people would enjoy that so much.

 

[Tagxy]

What else is there to compare it to? Also, what competitive level do you speak of? Of course nobody can see into the future of this game, so to suggest that any sort of analysis as to how the game will play out competitively in the near future is all anyone has done or can do. That said, the core mechanics of Sm4sh do not translate into a very exciting spectator e-sport, and it is much more like Brawl than Melee. Which is why nobody in the melee community is surprised to hear that the some of the best Brawl players are now the best Sm4sh players.

Than how do you explain Brawl players womping on melee players in PM :kappa:. Half kidding, in seriousness its not the smooth transfer youre implying, Brawl's best players havent translated to smash 4's best players. In fact its hard to say who the best smash 4 players really are. And thus far melees players havent tried as far as I know. Even if the transfer happened to be smooth, theres also the alternative explanation that those coming from Brawl simply have better fundamentals for new games. Not that that's necessarily true either it goes both ways, the point being that it puts scrutiny on your bolded statement.

Also im not talking about years down the line I mean including the near future as well. I mean analysis from even last week, much less a month ago or since e3, has been at best inconsistent and at worst outright laughable.

As for the rest, compare it to what you know, which means at bare minimum an understanding of how the game's current meta-game functions. Using your paragraph as an example, peeps want to create some sort of melee-brawl spectrum for the game when they dont understand competitive melee and/or Brawl in the first place. If melee players want to compare it to melee sure. If brawl players want to compare it to brawl cool. But comparing it to a game we dont know because its not close enough to ours is naive. With this in mind, I find no point in the judgement you've made on its core mechanics translating well for spectator e-sports unless you have this understanding of multiple games as well as smash 4.

They also received tons of support from the developers of said games. They had a financial incentive to switch. It remains to be seen if melee will have this kind of support, although I suspect it will for this one event at least. They want to push the Wii U, this would give it some exposure for very little money. It's just good marketing.

Nothing to add to this. The facts will speak for themselves.

I never invoked racism or sexism in my post. To do so would make light of all those affected. I simply used the words minority and majority, but I'm in no way comparing this situation to those that you have mentioned.

I know I dont mean to imply you did, I was the one who mentioned racism and sexism in order to draw an analogy. As a minority I find the comparison accurate.

 

[ezm1100]

I voted for melee, but if both can be there that would be great

 

[610]

I voted for melee. Simply becuase no other game brings the hype like melee does.

 

[Zotis]

I'm glad to see Melee has a huge lead. I think Melee is a better game. It's certainly much more competitive, and it's advanced technical gameplay allows for a higher peaked skill level. When two extremely talented players match up it leaves me breathless thinking, "How did they do that?" Brawl and Smash 4 can't give me that feeling. I'd rather see Smash 64 at Evo than Smash 4.

 

[Kuraudo]

I'm disappointed that there's a good chance that Smash 4 won't get a chance at EVO the first time around (if ever if the Melee community has anything to say about it; but that's up to the Smash 4 scene to step it up and outnumber the Melee voters in the future), but I can see why Melee is getting the leg up. If EVO 2015 has Melee as the main Smash game once again, for Smash 4 to get the opportunity in the future, the publicity for the game needs to be huge and organizers everywhere will need to push the game and encourage the numbers. That gives a year of development in the scene once the Wii U version hits.

If Melee gets into EVO, that's fine. Smash Bros. in general being at EVO is awesome. But my only concern (read inevitable IMO) is that when it boils down to trying to give Smash 4 a chance? It's going to breed yet ANOTHER war.

You guys think that Brawl vs. Melee was bad? With Melee in the spotlight with sponsors and more, sharing tourney limelight with places like CEO and EVO, for those excited for Smash 4 and wanting to be the best in that game, that's some serious territory that players will be refusing to give up. So where does that leave the Smash 4 players? That blatantly leaves them with only one option.

Fight. Fight for their game, and unfortunately, it'll be at the expense of Melee. Or if Melee players win outright for years to come, at the expense of Smash 4 and it'll be the death of the game in the public eye where fame and glory come to life. I don't want that to happen. But it stands an astoundingly high chance of happening.

And really, it's both our faults for this. We both wanna fight for our game to be noticed (unfortunately for Smash 4, it's so young that it's getting curbstomped by Melee which irritates me in a way), and in a world where one main game in a series typically gets the spotlight (hence why Street Fighter III and II are side tournaments at most places while the latest Street Fighter IV is in the spotlight; or Marvel 3 over Marvel 2), it's funny how Melee tends to be the one that sticks around. I don't want any responses like "well duh there's a reason Melee is still around it's better hurr durr" please.

 

[Illuvial]

I'm worried of how Nintendo will react to their newest game that's still making them money through sales not even making it to EVO

 

[MookieRah]

If Melee gets into EVO, that's fine. Smash Bros. in general being at EVO is awesome. But my only concern (read inevitable IMO) is that when it boils down to trying to give Smash 4 a chance? It's going to breed yet ANOTHER war.

Why does this have to be the case? Why does one side getting their way = we go to war about it? If more people are interested in melee, why is that something that the melee scene should be punished for or vice versa?

So where does that leave the Smash 4 players? That blatantly leaves them with only one option.

Fight. Fight for their game, and unfortunately, it'll be at the expense of Melee. Or if Melee players win outright for years to come, at the expense of Smash 4 and it'll be the death of the game in the public eye where fame and glory come to life. I don't want that to happen. But it stands an astoundingly high chance of happening.

My question here is why would Sm4sh deserve the limelight at the expense of melee if what you say here is true? Why would Sm4sh deserve a shot if melee is more popular and considered the better game? Why are we talking as if there can only be one or the other here? EVO is just one tournament, a very important one, but it's only one tournament. There is plenty of space in this community for more than just Melee, and there have been plenty of tournaments hosting Melee, PM, and Brawl.

And really, it's both our faults for this. We both wanna fight for our game to be noticed (unfortunately for Smash 4, it's so young that it's getting curbstomped by Melee which irritates me in a way), and in a world where one main game in a series typically gets the spotlight (hence why Street Fighter III and II are side tournaments at most places while the latest Street Fighter IV is in the spotlight; or Marvel 3 over Marvel 2), it's funny how Melee tends to be the one that sticks around. I don't want any responses like "well duh there's a reason Melee is still around it's better hurr durr" please.

Like I've stated many times, the reason for the switch despite the older games being considered better is due to financial backing by the companies that make them. If there is not a financial incentive to switch to a game that people feel is worse, why make the switch? People seem to assume that the precedent was that new games always make the cut because they are new, but that simply isn't true.

The thing that many don't seem to understand that are on the side of Sm4sh is that melee was underground for so long, dogged by everyone but our own scene. Despite that, as a community, we came together and outnumbered the combined total of every other fighting game community. Over time, everyone else slowly began to realise,"Holy ****, this isn't a kids game, this is serious business." and melee finally started getting attention from outside it's own community. Then Brawl happened, and set everything back terribly, largely due to the debacle that was EVO.

Nobody knows what would happen if Sm4sh is at EVO and melee is not, but for those that have been in the melee community for 10+ years, and seeing how melee had record numbers the past two EVO tournaments, it doesn't make sense that melee would be trumped by Sm4sh just because it's a new glossy game. Honestly, to me it's a no brainer, clearly you host both at EVO. Host them both this year and see what happens next.

Sadly, I doubt they will see it that way, as I really don't trust Mr Wizard's judgement, as it was his decisions to ignore the smash community that led to the Brawl EVO tournament which ejected smash from EVO. I don't really suspect that any poll or opinion thread here will affect him enough, and I feel that, whatever his decision is, it was more or less decided before he posted here.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

@kuraudo
Melee isn't still around because it's better. Melee is still around cause brawl (and from what is known so far)sm4sh are worse.

If pm was the official sequel (doesn't matter what version) people would have moved on most likely because it kept the elements that made melee competitively great. Brawl actively searched for anything competitive melee ers used to gain an edge and destroy it.

Sfiv is most likely worse than the other street fighters but you can still play it like the older street fighters. If I play brawl the way I play melee I'll trip for excessive dashing. (If I don't get punished for the brawl dashdance first) or I'll have my shffl nair being intercepted and punished no matter how well I space it since there is no fastfall/fastfallers. I'd personally compare it more to sfxt vs sfiv in that sense.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm worried of how Nintendo will react to their newest game that's still making them money through sales not even making it to EVO

Well, why should they be surprised? Sakurai has stated in several interviews that smash titles were not made for competitive play in mind, that they were targeted to novices. Why would Nintendo be surprised that their new game doesn't make it into the biggest fighting game tournament in the world when it clearly was not designed with them in mind?

If Nintendo was angry by this hypothetical situation, then they would be hypocrites. They would want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Illuvial]

Well, why should they be surprised? Sakurai has stated in several interviews that smash titles were not made for competitive play in mind, that they were targeted to novices. Why would Nintendo be surprised that their new game doesn't make it into the biggest fighting game tournament in the world when it clearly was not designed with them in mind?

If Nintendo was angry by this hypothetical situation, then they would be hypocrites. They would want to have their cake and eat it too.

I think as a company that is hosting official tournaments and actually embracing the competitive side of Smash by sponsoring EVO itself I'd be a little upset that the community doesn't choose our current cash cow in the series for EVO. I mean, I'm not saying that they'd try cancelling anything (because we all know how long that decision would last) but honestly I think it would hurt their viewpoint on the scene as a whole. They watch us closer than we think and I think that Smash 4 being at EVO would be a big step forward getting even more support from them.

Then again I really don't care since I love both games and would be hype to watch either game at EVO

 

[Bones0]

I think as a company that is hosting official tournaments and actually embracing the competitive side of Smash by sponsoring EVO itself I'd be a little upset that the community doesn't choose our current cash cow in the series for EVO. I mean, I'm not saying that they'd try cancelling anything (because we all know how long that decision would last) but honestly I think it would hurt their viewpoint on the scene as a whole. They watch us closer than we think and I think that Smash 4 being at EVO would be a big step forward getting even more support from them.

Then again I really don't care since I love both games and would be hype to watch either game at EVO

I think you overestimate how much attention Nintendo gives the competitive aspect of a single game series. Their understanding doesn't seem to exceed the most superficial surface of the community. People get excited by Reggie saying "no johns", but then you look at them acting the same way about For Glory being all FD with FD versions of multiple stages and it becomes pretty clear they don't know WTF is going on. I'd also be AMAZED if they were working with or supporting the competitive scene very long after release.

 

[Tagxy]

Sakurai and Nintendo of America are different entities. As for the FD thing, Brawl free play was played at a ridiculous proportion on FD. I cant remember the numbers anymore, but theres a reason FD was chosen as the base. Im not sure if they would or wouldnt entertain a BF version for every stage were it possible, but I doubt it was considered at all since smash 3ds was pushing its limit on space.

I do agree with Mookie though, kinda feel this was already decided and Im FAIRLY SURE if they choose one game itll be smash 4 but who knows. Melee community couldve been nicer about this whole thing though since making a push to have melee there may come down to having the full smash communities support and melee community certainly knows how to burn a bridge between other games. Not applying it to everyone but yknow. If it does come down to that Ill be helping anyways.