Video Critique Thread

[zDuck]

Vanz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIen19D6hfc
Mango
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmGpjHJGLlQ

critique and stuff please, falcon is gay

 

[Geist]

Not bad to do that well against Mango, good stuff duck lol
I'll go through an unordered list of observations I guess

Falcon's nair and knee approach gets stuffed hard by utilt. You hit him once with it but you started late and you traded. utilt is just nice because it makes the falcon a little more skittish on his approach to you and it's easier to keep your stage positioning rather than get pushed to platforms, which samus has a distinct disadvantage on. Basically it just keeps everything on the ground longer

Mango kept baiting your dsmash on his shield and punished you in kind of nasty ways.
I actually use dtilt rather than dsmash as a personal preference, mostly against fastfallers. The two moves are almost identical down to the frame, but dtilt actually has less ending lag (only by a few frames), plus it leads more consistently into extra followups with aerials or fsmash, platform followups, which you're really good at, etc.
Though it's probably not reccommended to use either against his shield.

Those were some nice grabs on first match lol
You stopped going for them after game one though :C

uair is actually really nice against falcon if he's positioned himself over you in the air. It's one of those moves that's a lot larger than it looks, it has a fast startup, pokes great, and has virtually no landing lag. Falcon is really momentum based and even if utilt doesn't lead to anything through hit-confirm, you can usually startle the falcon into reacting in someway, probably with a shield. At the very worst, it screws with their timing.

Same with jabs and jab cancels. You were throwing out a lot of double jabs, which against falcon is actually surprisingly good at setting up edgeguards, but he was just shielding in between jabs and then taking full advantage of his frame advantage over you. I think you should add jab cancelling to your arsenal, falcon doesn't have much oos that's fast enough to take advantage of properly spaced jab>jab>wd back ftilt mixups


also yeah sheik >_>
her shield comes out too fast, everything combos into everything, and the best way to get a surefire hit/followup is with a super risk move (grab)
well you were edgeguarding properly
and reacting properly
You might have been leaving yourself a bit too open by not staying grounded here and there
I think it was a timing issue for you in that match. imo you just need a bit of tweaking to be more effective, as lame and unhelpful as that sounds, but that's all I got lol

 

[bubbaking]

Going to another fest today + tourney tomorrow, probably to meet another Sheik. I will see how this goes, but I seriously think we all should consider just picking up secondaries for that char. I can threaten our region's best player (Redd) when he plays his mains but then he just goes Sheik and ***** me.

Who here knows how to fight against Sheik? I'm begging every single Samus here for help in that MU.

 

[iRobinhoood]

You must ascend past an already ascended super saiyan to beat Sheik.

 

[ycz12]

If you airdodge while recovering and see that you're about to get hit by a needle, DON'T USE YOUR GRAPPLE. It helps to save your jump too.

 

[zDuck]

Going to another fest today + tourney tomorrow, probably to meet another Sheik. I will see how this goes, but I seriously think we all should consider just picking up secondaries for that char. I can threaten our region's best player (Redd) when he plays his mains but then he just goes Sheik and ***** me.

Who here knows how to fight against Sheik? I'm begging every single Samus here for help in that MU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyMx2jpoqJs#t=6m55

thanks geist, i don't like using u-tilt in the falcon matchup as much cause if they're patient it's just a free punish

 

[Litt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91tTLPUwXPA

Samus 100% edgeguard, can use to even spike Marth/Roy when they are using their Up B to recover if done correctly, I have not seen this technique before, so if it actually is original let me know so it can be dubbed after me xD

 

[Geist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyMx2jpoqJs#t=6m55

thanks geist, i don't like using u-tilt in the falcon matchup as much cause if they're patient it's just a free punish

yeah, but thankfully falcon has to commit pretty hard once his feet leave the ground
Utilt does have some decent IASA and is a lot safer after it ends than it gets credit for though. it's a joke between violence and I that utilt covers utilt.

of course I don't think there's any actual patient falcons ANYWHERE in my scene, they're all greedy *******s so I could see why I'm a bit less cautious about using it lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91tTLPUwXPA

Samus 100% edgeguard, can use to even spike Marth/Roy when they are using their Up B to recover if done correctly, I have not seen this technique before, so if it actually is original let me know so it can be dubbed after me xD

well I don't know if it'd fall under the domain of 'technique' exactly
bombs have always been good for disrupting marth's recovery since he's very particular about his sweetspot. It's usually better to drop a bomb off the ledge so it meets him on the way down, making him either panic or misjudge his next sweetspot, allowing for something slightly more reliable along the lines of an fsmash punish

I mean I see what you're going for - forcing marth to land on the stage and run into the bomb - and as decent a coverage as that is in theory, a good marth would totally be able to grab the edge while you place the bomb on that stage. There's a lot of frames where you're not invincible, and you'd just be slapped away from the edge with the tip of his ubB.

a lot of the times a simple walk off nair will do just as good of a job, with less chance for goofing it

 

[Pi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91tTLPUwXPA

Samus 100% edgeguard, can use to even spike Marth/Roy when they are using their Up B to recover if done correctly, I have not seen this technique before, so if it actually is original let me know so it can be dubbed after me xD

i've known about it, plup does it to show off
never really thought about it's edgeguard potential
there's definitely space to be explored

the question that has to be asked is;
this takes a lot of setup time, and is rather situational so
1) is this TOO situational to sacrifice other more grantee'd options to edgeguard?
i put a LOT of weight on the edgeguard, that's a whole stock, when looking at optimal edgeguards, imo, you need to look for that which will most assuredly get the kill

bombs have notoriously low hitstun, to effectively 'combo' out of them you need to know precisely where and when your opponent is going to get hit, and have your move out there asap

i think it does have poential, and you've shown that it can be practiced without a human opponent, so keep exploring it

but if we're going to theory craft it's usability, that's a good place to start;
weigh how reliable the kill is from it with how situational it is, with how many options you give up by setting up for it

it may end up being very good at certain %'s to cover a lot of options, or it may end up that the followup hit is too unpredictable in the direction it sends them, and overall worse for finishing the stock off than other options

 

[Litt]

I have been using this against; Marth, Mario, Roy, Gannondorf, Doc, and it is useful for both spikes, and a set up for a 100% nair to hit them once stunned by the bomb, it doesn't take much time to set up, but the timing need to be perfect

 

[Pi]

video request of the bomb -> spike and the bomb -> nair which sends them off the stage

 

[Litt]

Ok lol

dont have a great camera, but ill try my best for you lol

 

[Litt]

This is all I got atm, hope its what you were looking for, my friend wasnt around so I had to do this against CPUs in training mode :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKvIPdXpBIc

 

[Pi]

This is all I got atm, hope its what you were looking for, my friend wasnt around so I had to do this against CPUs in training mode :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKvIPdXpBIc

says vid is private

 

[Litt]

sorry bout that, here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKvIPdXpBIc

 

[Pi]

hmmm
i just don't think it guarantee's the kill the way a good edgeguard should
a well time utilt/ftilt keeps them off the stage, or kills them
an edgehog into a ledgehop reverse nair does the same thing
the bomb -> nair looks pretty guarantee'd but again isn't setting up for kills which is what edgeguarding should do
maybe drop bomb -> fair -> combo out of fair since they might not have their jump would be good
or at certain %'s where you can follow up the nair on certain characters

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I mean you could just grab the ledge with timing and waveland on stage and like f-smash them back out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAoda88z20w&feature=youtu.be

 

[Knut]

awesome esam. i was so upset when i found out i missed this. glad most of it got recorded. still, i wish i was there when you guys were playing.

and i got vids too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ycmCViQ2uY
pewpewu sorta bodied me at apex. u_u

http://www.twitch.tv/robinhooodgfx/b/363413986?t=7m34s
and this is from no johns yesterday. DJ played samus a few times in this tourney as well, so theres more samus play in this stream after my matches if you guys wanna check it out.

critiques and stuff would be cool. thanks in advance guys.

 

[Litt]

thoughts on this please: dont have a good video yet because I never really tape my match play

Samus the Fire Juggler....

Marth can juggle people with his aerials.... why cant samus do it with her forward air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNDszSmyQF4&feature=youtu.be

my best juggle so far took marth from 45-126 damage during a match, key is you have to look like you are going under them but you slightly go to the side of them so your fire catches them before their down A is completed, you have to start you jump going backwards though, so under pressure its difficult to pull a number of these in a row

 

[Knut]

she can! fair> fsmash and nair> fair> nair are 2 of my favorite combos. its pretty situational though. the ability to "juggle" with it is all dependent on both you and your opponents DI, and when you decided to FF, which makes it a relatively hard move to use. sometimes your better off going for guaranteed knock back with a nair, or even uair, rather than attempting to combo into a stronger move from fair.

 

[Litt]

no i just meant to continually fair the opponent, like how pikachu can continually throw and catch falcon, i think its possible if you are fast enough and good enough

 

[Geist]

Good stuff, esam

no i just meant to continually fair the opponent, like how pikachu can continually throw and catch falcon, i think its possible if you are fast enough and good enough

unfortunately computers don't have the knowledge to DI out of combos like people do, as cool as it would be for samus to have legit juggles.

A well placed fair on a grounded opponent, however does actually lead into a grab, or as knut mentioned, Fsmash or Nair
The quality of a combo or technique is usually judged on its risk/reward. A simple combo like fair -> fsmash is easy to pull off, does decent damage, and usually sets up for an edgeguard or a kill.
Juggling with the first two hits of fair however, is DI dependent, low damage, and easy for your opponent to break from (like with peach's nair or falco's dair)

 

[bubbaking]

@K_Litt: I'm pretty sure the bomb would actually mess up the edgeguard in most forced on-stage recovery instances. When Marth lands on-stage, it's really easy to ledgehop dair > nair/bair/Charged Shot, ledgehop nair/bair/Charged Short, WL fsmash, or get-up (below 100%) dsmash during his long upB landing lag. The bomb literally 'resets' his state so that his lag can't be taken advantage of anymore, so now, you're struggling to combo/follow-up from the short hitstun of the bomb with something that's probably not optimal (I watched your video and most of your attempts sent Marth back across the stage or into the ground, thus helping his recovery) when you could have just gone for something easily guaranteed that is also very effective. On top of all the things I mentioned above, you can also try to utilt, dangled ftilt, dsmash, dangled fsmash, or dair Marth's recovery since it's surprisingly hard to sweetspot outside of those moves', especially utilt's, ranges, even for top players. Additionally, you can go for dropzone/ledge-release nair to directly intercept his upB, getting yourself a trade, which will usually kill him while leaving you high and dry, or simply beating him out due to ledge invincibility (if you ledge-released appropriately). If you're ever going to bomb, I suggest you do so right off the stage next to the ledge to mess with Marth's sweetspot timing. It also makes all of the aforementioned techniques more effective.

Tl;dr - Your method works, as in it hits the opponent for more damage or a kill on the other side of the screen, but it's kinda inferior to nearly all of Samus' other edgeguarding options. I might go with your method if I had a Marth living to 150% for some reason, though.

 

[Pi]

fire juggle works better on large characters
gannon on platform = rising fair, l cancel, drop down fair, rising fair, repeat

50% of the time it works 100% of the time

 

[bubbaking]

50% of the time it works 100% of the time

I like Samus' fair a LOT, but I don't think it's that reliable. Most opponents just don't know how to deal with it (CC, etc), and for those very opponents, I like fair > dsmash when I'm recovering/at the ledge. It's one of the jankiest 'combos' you'll ever see and it always leaves my FFing opponents wondering, "How the heck did this happen? I was SURE I was just edgeguarding this Samus a second ago..."

Fun fact: Marth can CC Samus' fair and Counter in between the hits. It's happened to me multiple times.

 

[Violence]

Psh, bubba, just Amsah tech -> dsmash the counter on reaction.

Basic.

 

[Geist]

I like Samus' fair a LOT, but I don't think it's that reliable. Most opponents just don't know how to deal with it (CC, etc), and for those very opponents, I like fair > dsmash when I'm recovering/at the ledge. It's one of the jankiest 'combos' you'll ever see and it always leaves my FFing opponents wondering, "How the heck did this happen? I was SURE I was just edgeguarding this Samus a second ago..."

Fun fact: Marth can CC Samus' fair and Counter in between the hits. It's happened to me multiple times.

Sheik can do it with her dsmash
KK does it
it sucks

 

[Violence]

Amsah tech dsmash.

 

[bubbaking]

What is the "Amsah tech" exactly?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Double stick DI down and tech.

 

[bubbaking]

Ohhhh THAT? I just called it.......the double stick tech, lolz! I didn't know it actually had a legit name.

 

[Pi]

ITT: confusion about how DI works

 

[abcool]

Hey guys i need some Falcon help. HugS told me i need to learn the intangibles. I need someone in here to teach me more about it. Sounds like the next step to becoming a high level player. http://youtu.be/YH3fHgW2hog

Edit: An also this. I know the Fox matchup, but just a few things i could do to punish Fox better would be appreciated. ShounenKel is a Peach main using Fox for Sh*ts an giggles http://youtu.be/4jP-WzzE_Dk

 

[ycz12]

Here's me vs. T.Webb. Anyone advice on dealing with campy Foxes would be appreciated; otherwise, got some decent mileage out of Extender in game 1, so check that out if you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpVUV26RUeo

There's also this teams match, which includes heroic 1v2 attempts by both me and Slox and some other good moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2uCeo9L2B8

 

[abcool]

These boards are kinda dry nowadays or is it just this thread?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Give it some time, people need to adjust to the new boards.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Here's some up to date tournament matches of my Samus, hope you guys like it:

vs. Sheik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1-5S82Kv0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFW42XMdk9k

vs. Ganon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sXXCtgtLc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W26M5o68qY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNSBdtMqFQI

vs. Falcon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6B2181zLAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APjpdy_aJvU


I think I could have played much better with more practice prior to the tournament but I'm super stoked to start working on getting better at all the little things. I personally think I'm pretty good at returning to the stage with Samus.

 

[Violence]

The main gripe I have with your vs Falcon game is that you're letting him get back for free. You aren't pouncing on your opportunities. Whenever Falcon is recovering, that's your chance to get ahead, and whenever you got that chance, you just kinda shot missiles or halfheartedly utilted. Recognize when Falcon is going to sweetspot, and grab that ledge. Otherwise, shutdown his recovery options systematically and get him back off stage at all costs. Letting him get back is giving him another chance to combo you into oblivion.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Got it, more focus on recognizing Falcon's recovery options and shutting them down more efficiently.

 

[Knut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF03gDSjQcQ