• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Video Critique Thread

iRobinhoood

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
Knut we have pretty similar crews and face similar characters often. Mine consists of a Samus main(me), a Peach main, a Falco/Falcon, and a Fox lol.

It seems like Ben baited a lot of attacks out of you from the ledge which were simply countered by him with retreating floating fairs. The last time we played you kept doing this like instant getup Utilt or Ftilt against me which worked well because it came out fast and created a distance. I wonder if it would work against Peach in those situations(example you did it at around 2:20 on Battlefield from the edge. I find it Utilt hard to land on Peach's because they can just float wait until the move finishes or after the upward hitting part of the tilt has passed giving them a free float canceled fair = / I still abuse it though in that matchup but it's a free hit if the Peach is expecting it. In the Peach match up I love using Ftilt. I find the upward angled Ftilt can sometimes catch Peach out of her float. And as I'm watching further I realized you used Ftilt a lot too soooooo disregard what I said lol

Ben seems really good and knowing precisely when to weave attacks in between Samus' attacks/jank. That and he seems to know the timing of our bomb recovery enough to interrupt it with turnips. Don't forget you can safely shield grab a Peach dash attack if I'm not mistaken. I think generally better timed attacks and out-of-dsmash-range tilts could keep Peach at bay.

This ESAM/Nintendude set helped me a bit out with the Peach matchup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmhOVqzs9L8

I'm still novice! But working to improve so I'm sure a more experienced Samus could go a bit more in depth and maybe critique my critique! lol Also nice job at 2nd place at Crossfire, highest placing yet?


Annnnnnnnnd I have some friendlies/seriouslies from one of our weeklies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=087--9RQfbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As1SduTBKoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaOVVaJOkU
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
First game you played pretty damn well, you had some nice moments
I felt like your platform game needs to be refined, because Tope managed to consistently get below you and send never-ending aerials down your throat. You shouldnt be there thats your one way ticket to getting comboed. If I were in that situation Id do my best to run away and get back on the ground - double wavelanding right/left plat to the top plat or the ground depending on the sit.
Really watch for grab spacing too. I remember at the first stock you were right at range and didnt wd back or anything and you got grabbed. You did a good job not letting Tope continue any more damage after the grab, whether that was your DI or his mistake, I'm honestly not sure
Also spacing in general, in regards to missles and charging up. Is this safe? Am I better off wd/wavelanding away?

That's all I got for now, and I only watched the first game once so take the advice with a grain of salt
 
iRobinhoood

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
First game:

- dash attack is not the only approach
- you dash attack A LOT especially against one of the few characters who can threaten us with a grab/shield-grab
- try adding jabs to your game. there's a trick where if you hold a unique angle with the control stick you can jab at a faster rate without triggering the second jab animation
- when Sheik returned to the stage a few times at a high percent you opted to utilt her to a point where you couldn't followup with anything. try wavelanding onto the stage and dsmashing or fsmashing them back off stage again

Second game:

- i think you overfocus on your movement through the stage and by doing so you over complicate things for yourself and sometimes even put yourself in a bad stage position




I saw your missile canceling looked good on Battlefield. I don't know which technique you use but I use the technique Knut showed me which is to like swipe your thumb from left to right across the Y and X buttons to do a rapid double jump missile cancel. There is also the rising homing missile cancel on Battlefield which is a little harder. I also had the same problem before with wavedashing with no purpose. Use it as a tool to space yourself from your opponent. Different characters will force you to change up your spacing. It seems you wavedash as a primary means to move about the stage and only do long wavedashes, sometimes when not even necessary. Plup is an excellent player to watch as he is constantly re-adjusting his spacing while he's pressuring shields. Wavedash forward ftilt >>>>>>>>>>> dash attack. Also on recoveries use your grapple more. It's a good mixup and if your new it'd be a really good idea to start becoming comfortable with it and the different properties associated with it like knowing when it will sweet spot etc. You can also dash dance with Samus(which I don't do enough as is). Once you know Sheik has lost her double jump, take advantage of it. They feel helpless. Just grab ledge, nothing else. Oh and UpB out of shield is amazing.




Would like follow up videos, without the ****ty Youtube music, I'll take the static.



Plup vs KirbyKaze Game 2 @ Apex 2013. Disregard first match, Plup would not be happy with that result lol. But the second match watch how he is RARELY EVER at a distance to which KK can shieldgrab him or grab him after a jab/tilt. Notice his use of jabs. It's a fishing game, he's waiting for his opponent to do something dumb after being jabbed so he can punish it. Even though he is missing the majority of his jabs his spacing allows him enough time to throw out a ftilt of KK tries to come in. Utilt is also a great tool. When he takes KK's double jump on the first stock all he does is grab ledge and follow up/punish when KK is forced to land on stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0CN_DegRzTs#t=162s


Hope it helps, kinda inspired me to be a better Samus.
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
-Yeah those dash attacks were out of desperation, and out of dashing so i had nothing else to do. Im not a fan of dash attacking esp at low percents
-I know about that jab trick! i really like it reminds me of street fighter lol. I actually used that more in an unrecorded game that same day. I got in like 5 good jabs before i had to reposition myself via wavedash, but i'm unsure about WHEN to use it, and for how long. For eg. in the plup vs KK game he doesnt spam jab on kaze's shield but opts for a ftilt instead, which allows kaze to move back and away. was that the right call, should he have kept jabbing more? (oh he ftits so he can wd back and be safe, got it)
-'ll have to think about your opinion of my movement. I havent noticed it myself, thats all, because after all moving around in this game is so fun. I do think samus benifits a ton from staying static
-yeah i use the YX slide, i have lots of time to practice tech so im pretty comfortable with it
- i screwed my recovs a lot because...idk but usually im ok with grappling. but i want to be very selective about which way i recov because grappling, like all recovs can be exploited. So if my opponent is letting me take the ledge like he did, then i will sweetspot. I gotta practice the...distance of where i can grapple, or if i can do a rising grapple or not.
I think if i play a stronger static game,less movement and use those jab baits i might get more success. i'll try that today thanks
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
I've got the same problem with dash attacking... :/
Another thing I noticed was you're not always sweetspotting your upB. The Sheik didn't punish you for it though.
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
First of all, better players won't get hit by random charge shots. You need to condition them into situations when they've got limited options, like edge guards, tech chases and in comboes.
Second, learn to wave dash out of shield. I saw the Marth hitting your shield several times with laggy moves such as Fsmash and dash attack. Learn to counter them.
Third, always land with a missile when you're at a distance. They auto cancel, so there's no loss.
Fourth, you can air dodge before you use your grapple to recover. This helps you aim your Zair better to sweet spot the ledge.
Fifth, don't spam grabs. It is a very laggy move which should be used rarely. Example of grab setups are tech chases and after they shield a missile. If you notice then shield your tilts a lot, you can mix up with grabs. I think Samus should always throw Marths down.
Sixth, always grab the ledge from a recovering Marth, or get out there with an aerial. It's hard to edge guard them while standing on the stage.
Seventh, I loved your last KO! :)
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
1.Watch those up tilts on Dream Land - the hitboxes don't reach far enough to hit anyone on the platform
2.Try to edgeguard and look for gimps for easy stocks. At around 1:15 you choose to charge instead of chasing the marth, which means he gets back on the stage free. That's not ok, Samus really needs those edgeguards and gimps when you play better players
3. 2:22, you DJ and slowly fall to the ledge. thats extremely punishable because you fall straight down in a place where you could get hit easily by any move. Imo the better decision would be to bomb jump to center platform, and try to avoid marth
4.Watch how you cut your dash attack and then you go into an animation where you can't do anything. Don't give your opponent free openings! End your dash with a wavedash or hold down to cancel the dash
5. 3:08, you try a ftilt and get f smashed. This is a good example of "counter-poking" where moves you throw out get stuffed out with moves with a longer range. Usually samus wants to be doing the counter poking, not the enemy. If you want to approach do it with a missle in front of you

I only watched the first game but that should be enough to get your mind working, along with Phil's comments. Keep practicing your tech 15 mins a day at least. Post more videos, especially ones where you get stomped - that marth wasn't good enough for learning to happen. Everyone gets stomped so don't be afraid to post em up : )
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
I'm gonna post a vid of me later from a local tourney if I can get my hands on it. I did some sweet work with SWD. I'd like to hear some critique around the games anyway as I think I played at my top level. Stay tuned!
 
Goast

Goast

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
285
Location
Garfield Ohio
Thanks for the tips =)
I need to get some of my matches recorded where I get bodied.
I've played Vanz and SilentSwag a few times and it made me better.
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
video 1 game 1 I thought you did fairly well. But oftentimes your downfall was losing your neutral game cause peach got the hit first. Or just being too overzealous and getting punished, like peach getting you after you tried the f-shash and he killed you. The platform game didn't work out for you well on the first stock, but thankfully you switched gears. Also, lots of times where you couldve wavedashed OOS to get away from pressure but you didnt

Personally I wouldve counterpickd to fd (did he ban?) just to make things more linear. This makes it harder for peach to find an opening to approach you and the vastness of the stage is very good for you.

video 1 game 2. Work on the shield pressure. I truly believe that if you were quicker on the draw at 7:39 you couldve landed the f-smash. I also noticed around that time was when you suddenly decided to start pressuring the shield. Was that a conscious decision - "Alright let's try shield pressure?" or did it just happen?
you could've punished at around 8:16. But damn at 9:20ish that was so perfect!...almost. But the shield pressure at 10:23 was amazing, i learned a lot from that.
That last stock was heartbreaking. A lot can be said about why you lost, but one thing for sure is that you were trying to read to hard with the grabs. the missle spam at 11:44ish. When peach dropped down, that couldve been a drop platform-uair or something

I think if theres one thing you can take from that match is that you have to work on is not being able to give your opponent so many opportunities to get hits in. So improvement on neutral game bc thats where peach rly outplayed you imo. You took too many loses from peach being able to get the first attack. Did you see that video of ESAM basically spamming missle against a peach? If theres one thing we have over top tier floaties is that we have better projectile. implement soul fisting and counterpicking ps1 or fd to make peaches approaches much more difficult, and when she comes to close stuff her out
 
abcool

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
I think I need to pull an Esam and just camp, but it's not my style. Here is a vid of me playing in Winners Finals against an aggressive Peach. I know I played terrible the first 2 matches. I started to remember how to play by match 4 which is hella laggy for some reason. ShounenKel vs Abcool
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
Ow I hate this matchup... The only Peach in my area is Armada.
I wonder if that turnip recovery (upB into turnip) works in PAL. It looks great!
I've found random grabs are not very useful in the neutral game. The Peach is often in float. If you want that grab badly, try missile-grabs, or grab as tech chase.
There were several opportunities for you to edgehop charge shot, I think.
I wonder what stages are the best in this matchup. Peach's edge guarding is better than Samus, so I think smaller blast zones are good for us.
FoD is a great Peach stage, but I think we can benefit from it more, if we're just careful of the platform Dsmashes.
PS has low ceiling, so we die early from Peach's Uair. It could still work if we just keep our distance (but that might give them time to draw stitchfaces or bombs...)
I do like FD as well. With no platforms, and slow vertical speed, it's harder for Peach to go through our barrage.
 
abcool

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
Did Armada give you any solid tips? I think his insight might help a bit. I will play that Peach again at the next Weekly and hopefully capitalize off of my bad habits. I like Pokémon Stadium. Yoshi Story isn't bad either. I guess it comes down to personal preference,
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
Well he told me I have to hit Peach out of her float. Our Fair, Nair and Uair are all fast enough. Fair is even disjointed. Peach's only move with long enough range to beat us in the air is Fair, really, and it's pretty slow.
Other than that, it's possible to upB OoS after her FCed aerials. I was practicing Nair OoS from pressure when I played him last time, but I noticed it didn't work out. I guess we don't have the frames.
YS can work fine too.
 
abcool

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
How much of Samus moves are + on shield. I hear Violence mentioned that Nair puts us in a good position. We did I never know about this before? What other move is positive on block.
 
-Philip Coast Philip-

-Philip Coast Philip-

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
Alright, so... I started playing smash again recently. And, I kind of want to beat this kid, but my sheik matchup knowledge is poor (and I hadn't done any research beforehand - I didn't know he played sheik! He said he was a peach main...).

So it seems for the life of me I can't figure out how to DI the throws, and I'm not quite sure how to edgeguard - sheik can get up so fast! - and similarly the approach seems really tough.

At one point I was experimenting with getting behind sheik more, but that fizzled out right before...

Anyway, anyone want to give any pointers?

http://youtu.be/FnA5YQmHq0Y
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
I think all characters should take the ledge from Sheik and punish when she upBs on to the stage. We can ledge hop Bair, or Dair to chargeshot, Bair or what ever. Ledge drop Nair works too to surprise them.
At low-mid % you can CC her tilts to Dtilt or Dsmash. Abuse it. I hate it when the Sheik just spaces Fairs at you. I think shield and wavedash back is my preferred option out of it.
I think your best DI for her throws are away. I play PAL, so I let someone else fill in there.
Her needles are a huge problem when trying to recover. Either recover high enough, or below the stage, below her 45 degree angle using our grapple, walljump and fast vertical upB. Try to save your jump until you're below the 45 degree angle when recovering low, so you don't lose it to needles.
Someone else should tell you how to approach (if we're even supposed to?) as I suck at it.
I liked your missile game middle of second match. Try to get a grab when they shield the missile.
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
You let go of many edge guard opportunities. Against the CF, you backed away from the ledge instead of Fsmashing or tilting. CF's recovery is very bad, and they shouldn't be able to get back on stage from below vs Samus.
Against the Fox, you started to missile spam. You could easily have taken Fox's first stock on PS by just running out with a Nair to cut off their upB. Instead you tried Utilting.
I don't know if it would have helped versus this Fox, but try to walljump after your grapple recoveries to avoid their shine.
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
Yes...my edgeguard is very "lowercase". Many of the times I am too nervous to go out of the stage to nair/dair them to death and I want to go safe and get the utilts, or get a clean hit when they try to get off the ledge and back on the stage
Either that or they go far from the stage and I hold the ledge and they just aren't able to come back after that...my hands atm arent fast enough to turn around and wd back to grab the ledge if they try to up B there, many times I want to face forward so I can do utilt but more cases then not I'm holding back to get a hit when they return to the stage
in any case my edgeguarding knowledge is very limited, many times i'm not sure what is possible
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
If it's possible, try to play a lot with other people and try things out and get comfortable by the ledge. Also continue practicing getting to the ledge fast. :)
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
Yeah if my biggest problems is edguarding i'll definitely figure it out more in the coming weeks
I also played Euphoria in pools and he murdered me, mostly with these never ending fair combos and uairs and I never got to the ground.
How am I supposed to DI against marth's moves? also what are good strategies for marth v samus neutral game?
 
JerkPhil

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
I don't know if edge guarding is your biggest problem, but you could have done much better.
Against Marth, it's important to stay grounded. You really don't want to be above Marth. Try to CC a lot vs Marth. If they're not at top level, they will eventually misspace and get punished. Stay mobile to avoid grabs.
Use missile cancel to approach.
Marth has a predictable recovery. Try to grab the ledge from them while edge guarding. The edge is where we have an advantage in this matchup.
 
ManoxMano

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
ahh maybe wrong choice of words but I'll still work on it
hmm thanks for the advice. When I think back to it I didn't move and cc enough which prolly let him get free nairs he probably didnt deserve. I should rewatch that Duck v euphoria game from big house
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom