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Victory is my Destiny - MK Video & Critique Thread

ScaryPixel

ScaryPixel

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Post videos of your MK here and get critiques. Simple as that.
Try to stay on topic, post vids from tournaments/moneymatches/seriouslies, make it clear whose MK you're critiquing.
 
Bryonato

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breez said:
Gimme ya words about my MK y0!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpzkmJg5mj4
Click to expand...

-I say this all the time in your stream but I wish you would dthrow more. It's a great tech chase set up and has a lot of followups when performed next to the ledge.

-I'd also like to see you use reverse upB as a recovery mixup more often. For example at 3:41 when you miss the nair you could have reverse upB'd back onto the stage to put yourself in at a positional advantage and give yourself an edgeguard opportunity to seal the game away.

-Be careful not to get too predictable with dair when you're trying to ground yourself. Had Tony had more MK experience I think he may have punished you for that more.

-At around 4:19 you talk about dair trading if you "hit with the tip of it." From my experience *anytime* you dair into Fox/Falco/Wolf upB after its hitbox comes out it trades reliably.

-Feelin yourself a little too much at 4:47 on what was otherwise a really good gimp attempt. Had you reverse upB'd instead of trying a second nair you might have hit him out of firefox just with that idk. It's essentially what happens at 5:35

-FSmash would've killed as opposed to DSmash at 6:35

All in all though you played pretty exceptionally. You have a good sense of the character and have these crazy flashes of brilliance where you just go on a tear. If anything I would just work on your shuttle loop and cape mixups. All I got for now. Solid play.
 
breez

breez

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Thanks for the reply dude! Lots of great advice from mah homie ;) Responses below!

Bryonato said:
I say this all the time in your stream but I wish you would dthrow more. It's a great tech chase set up and has a lot of followups when performed next to the ledge.
Word man, my grab game has been steadily improving but my follow-up game hasn't. Last nights session I specifically made sure to d-throw A LOT more often, and while I definitely like it, I still feel as though my follow-ups are stronger with f-throw. I think sometimes the f-throw comes out so quickly that my opponents DI is terrible, and I can catch them with something really juicy. This is something i'm going to have to play with to understand correctly - regardless, I still think this is really solid advice.

I'd also like to see you use reverse upB as a recovery mixup more often. For example at 3:41 when you miss the nair you could have reverse upB'd back onto the stage to put yourself in at a positional advantage and give yourself an edgeguard opportunity to seal the game away.
That was definitely supposed to be a reverse up-b. I actually use it quite a bit to mix-up my recovery, however if it gets read (especially by spacies) the punishes are brutal.

Be careful not to get too predictable with dair when you're trying to ground yourself. Had Tony had more MK experience I think he may have punished you for that more.
Definitely agreed. This is something i've been experimenting with a lot - My usual mindset with the dairs is to bait the spacie out of laser camping and to immediately f-tilt their attack. I also try to land behind their shield occasionally as a mix-up/to prevent punishes. I've also found that if the spacie is "auto-pilot" laser camping I can catch them and turn it into a decent combo. A great little combo I like is d-air -> u-tilt -> turnaround grab -> f-throw -> n-air/u-air (depending on DI).

That said I think I've been overusing d-air because of my limited approach options, so over the last couple of sessions i've been heavily experimenting with f-air (which I rarely used before) and I've been having great success (especially vs falco/falcon!).

At around 4:19 you talk about dair trading if you "hit with the tip of it." From my experience *anytime* you dair into Fox/Falco/Wolf upB after its hitbox comes out it trades reliably.
I wish this were the case! Unless the hitbox trades perfectly (and I haven't figured out what determines this) you'll SD along with the spacie. I love trading stocks when i'm a stock up, if i'm high % and my opponent has a fresh stock my favorite thing to do is grab -> f-throw/b-throw -> u-air -> d-air. If your opponent wasn't salty before, he definitely is now! Oh, and what I was referring to is if you ledge cancel the d-air when your opponent is having to recover to the ledge vertically, you can spike them through the stage with zero risk of killing yourself. I'm not very good at this D:

Feelin yourself a little too much at 4:47 on what was otherwise a really good gimp attempt. Had you reverse upB'd instead of trying a second nair you might have hit him out of firefox just with that idk. It's essentially what happens at 5:35.
This is just a straight up fail. I had a massive session with Meta a couple of days after this video where I was doing well but dropping like 30% of my gimps - I refined my decision making off stage and my gimp game has MASSIVELY improved. Basically my go-to fox gimp is f-air (on hit confirm IMMEDIATELY) -> FF n-air -> nado (to recover). This ruled out my "indecision" off stage and now EVERY time I land an f-air off-stage it's an insta kill on fox. Also, i'm ALWAYS feelin' myself a little too much ;) You should know this!

FSmash would've killed as opposed to DSmash at 6:35
Agreed, technical error on my part!

All in all though you played pretty exceptionally. You have a good sense of the character and have these crazy flashes of brilliance where you just go on a tear. If anything I would just work on your shuttle loop and cape mixups. All I got for now. Solid play.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it. I've got a massive amount of areas that I can improve upon and feedback like this really helps me narrow it down. Thanks yo!
Click to expand...
 
dettadeus

dettadeus

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Strong Bad said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dzebPG1rog
baby MK
Click to expand...
Overall, you probably have the best looking MK playstyle I've seen on the boards, but there's still a few things you need to work on.
1. Use Ftilt. WAYYYY more. There were a lot of times you used Dsmash instead of Ftilt and missed due to getup invincibility or something else. Ftilt is godlike - the first hit combos into Dsmash and Grab on most chars at most percents, and at higher percents (and on lighter characters like ivysaur) you can combo into Instant Dimensional Cape as well.
2. Tornado eats space animal recoveries. If they're recovering from below the ledge, tornado and hover just below the ledge. They'll get caught. Rise back up so you land onstage and the last hit will send them back off at an even worse angle. It also eats through Illusion/Phantasm pretty reliably.
3. Stop using Dair. I tell this to any MK main I give advice to. Rewatch your set and count how many times you got punished for using Dair and compare that to the number of times you actually hit or combo with it. It is easily one of his worst moves and I can't see why people ever use it.
4. Shuttle Loop is good for recovery, please use it. If you get sent offscreen, just get back onscreen and start a Shuttle Loop (if you're around the level of the ledge). You can either glide above/past your opponent and edge-cancel Glide Attack or glide drop onto the ledge. Even though you technically only have two options out of glide, there's a lot of mixup potential.
5. Don't Usmash either. You're the first MK I've seen that uses SH Uair a lot (Which makes me very happy, and you were using it REALLY well), and SH Uair is basically always better than Usmash. People say it's good against fastfallers and that's like... 6 characters.


I'll try and get to the other videos at some point but a lot of what I said in this post applies to every other MK I've seen: don't Dair, don't Usmash, Shuttle Loop is still a good recovery move, etc.
 
Strong Badam

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Meaty U-Smash is actually really good against FFers. Either sets up another techchase or combos into more Usmashes or U-airs. Just need to space it so it's meaty so they can't SDI out of it. Bad U-Smashes are really bad, I'll give you that. Saying it's good against FFers is extremely important because those are unfortunately >40% of the matchups you'll run into in tournament. It's like keeping in mind a really heavy Rest punish; it may only help you in one matchup, but that's what this game is all about. Getting better at every matchup.

Rising U-air is just a habit from playing Pika & Wario, so I was happy to see it transferred over to MK well. MK's U-air is soo good...
 
Bryonato

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Strong Bad said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dzebPG1rog
baby MK
Click to expand...
Agree with most things detta said, especially about using ftilt more as opposed to dsmash. Using dsmash so much is pretty common among newer mk's (especially when I started using him) just because it's generally safe, reliable and quick.

Nice to see you were experimenting with DC toward the end of the second match. Having a firm grasp on it is very important imo.


Don't have much else to say or I'd just be repeating things that have already been said. Really enjoyed watching your mk.
 
Croi

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAXlvjAJOzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdh5c0N5y8

dettadeus said:
3. Stop using Dair. I tell this to any MK main I give advice to. Rewatch your set and count how many times you got punished for using Dair and compare that to the number of times you actually hit or combo with it. It is easily one of his worst moves and I can't see why people ever use it.
Click to expand...
I looked through both of these matches and decided to do this. By my count:

I used a whopping 52 dairs.
Of those, I landed 17 successfully and managed to combo and/or kill off of them. (This includes the kamikaze I got on Raziek since it did exactly what I intended it to do)
I flubbed 12 and was punished for using them.
The remaining 23 were either successful in the hit but I did not combo off of them, or they missed entirely, but I was also unpunished for them.

Dair is one of my favourite moves to use, and in my experience, it's really difficult to punish if it's used correctly (and L-cancelled, natch). It's far from the perfect move, but it's not the horrid waste-of-space you make it out to be. Maybe you're just using it wrong?
 
Lawn Chair

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With Meta Knight you need to be good at 8 ( and more ) things

1. Dthrow techchase ( pro tip, after doing the dthrow don't dash but walk to where your opponent is DI-ing and ftilt you can get a regrab or Dsmash after ftilt )
2. Punish with Nair and Dsmash
3. Know which recovery to use ( Don't listen to dettadeus when he says only shuttle loop it is good for some situations but not all if you want to get to the stage without getting punished use neutral-b, if you want to sweet spot use side-b and angle it up, if you want to be able to defend yourself when recovering use up-b )
4. Uthrow into Instant Dimensional Cape, up-b, uair, bair, fair, dair. anything really
5. Learn up-b tricks ( Like on lylat cruise if you up-b at a certain area you will land on the platform ahead of you and sometimes cancel the up-b landing lag )
6. Spacing
7. Jab resets
8. Reacting

That is the bit off the top of my head if you want more detail on either of these just reply to this message
 
dettadeus

dettadeus

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Croi said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAXlvjAJOzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdh5c0N5y8



I looked through both of these matches and decided to do this. By my count:

I used a whopping 52 dairs.
Of those, I landed 17 successfully and managed to combo and/or kill off of them. (This includes the kamikaze I got on Raziek since it did exactly what I intended it to do)
I flubbed 12 and was punished for using them.
The remaining 23 were either successful in the hit but I did not combo off of them, or they missed entirely, but I was also unpunished for them.

Dair is one of my favourite moves to use, and in my experience, it's really difficult to punish if it's used correctly (and L-cancelled, natch). It's far from the perfect move, but it's not the horrid waste-of-space you make it out to be. Maybe you're just using it wrong?
Click to expand...

Of all the Dairs I saw in those sets, the suicide one vs Raziek is the only one I agree with since there was literally nothing he could do to avoid it.
The Jiggs seemed like they had no idea what they were doing most of the time, and many of the times you went unpunished with it were likely due to matchup or player inexperience. Many of the times you hit with it, they could have simply shielded and punished it (DC'ing above > Dair, for example).
Both players in general seemed to not know how to play against MK. That's not to detract from your gameplay, but there was a lot you did that could have been escaped with proper DI (hitting with all three hits of Ftilt three times in a row, for example).

The very few times I use Dair I am not using it wrong (I only use it if I can ledge cancel on something it so I can get back to the ground), but I honestly believe there is always a better move to use in virtually every situation, which is why I almost never use it. I try only to use it when I think there is literally no other option available to me. It's highly punishable on whiff, moreso than any of his other aerials, and fairly telegraphed due to its low horizontal range and specific angles that it can be used at. Yes, you can combo and kill off it, but you can do the same thing by fastfalling Nair or Fair (the first two hits) into themselves or other moves, both of which are faster and less telegraphed.

You can take everything I say with a grain of salt because obviously I'm not the end-all-be-all of MK knowledge, but I personally have not had success with Dair against players in my region who definitely appear to be more skilled than those who you played in the videos you linked. Every player and every region is different, so if you think you can do well by using Dair an obscene amount, go for it and prove me wrong.

The main reason I think Dair is just a bad move in general is because I often compare it to his Brawl Dair, which he could have had instead. It would have given him a better option OoS than Usmash, GSL or SH Uair, a generally safer gimping tool than DJ Nair, and would have made it so he generally didn't have to fear being above people - his current Dair can get him back to the ground faster so he doesn't have to worry, but you can still be hit out of it or punished on landing, rather than abusing your five jumps and telling your opponent not to go near you while you land.

Also, there were a few times when you got killed while trying to recover when you could have used Shuttle Loop (both vs Ike on Battlefield). The first time you Nado'd into an Usmash and the second time you DC'd into a Fsmash. The first time, you could have easily reverse Shuttle Looped around the edge of Battlefield and hit Ike with a later hit, stopping the Usmash and saving your stock. The second time, you could have simply Shuttle Looped and glided to the edge (or even used Drill Rush - he was close enough to the edge to get hit by it at maximum sweetspot range).
 
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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I am PAL, so I can only tell from my sources + what I saw and read, but concerning dair, I also think it is overused.
Don't use it if your opponent is at very low percents because he can CC and punish you harder. Normally, much of MKs stuff can be CCd so try to go for Down-Throw-Techchases at these percents. Dair is also used if Meta Knight used up his jumps onstage and his opponent is on the ground waiting for him. In these situations, dair is probably the best option, but try to avoid these situations by shffl nairs or fairs instead of waiting your opponent out with jumping further.
 
Lawn Chair

Lawn Chair

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Just to say to anyone who is going to apex, whoever I meet there who mains Meta Knight who is better than me or as good I want to make a Meta Knight guide with that person. If anyone is interested the tag I'll be wearing at Apex is NWO
 
Lawn Chair

Lawn Chair

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Okay then it's set Dettadeus vs NWO at Apex 2013 5$ MM Meta Knight ditto good luck can't wait to play
 
Jolteon

Jolteon

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So I went nearly full MK at a tournament a few weeks ago. It was fun.

Winners Semis - Fuzzyness (Lucario/Wolf) vs Jolteon (MK) - http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/485656055?t=3h41m31s

Winners Finals - Professor Pro (Snake) vs Jolteon (MK) - http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/485656055?t=4h5m48s

Grand Finals - Professor Pro (Snake) vs Jolteon (MK) - http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/485656055?t=4h50m27s

Losers Finals - Shlurpie (ZSS) vs Jolteon (MK/Toon Link) - http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/485656055?t=4h29m32s
 
Run DMX

Run DMX

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Finally got some videos up. I have a feeling I know most of the things I need to improve on, but gimme a holler if you want!

 
Last edited:
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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OK here would be my suggestions:
@ Run DMX Run DMX
Your Meta Knight seems pretty good. Against Strong Bad's Pit, the first game was basically yours so no real mistakes there beside of the SD
The f-tilt got crouchcancelled so often. If Pit is under ~40%, go for more dashdancing for the purpose of grabbing.
I think you sometimes could have evaded one or another followup by combo DI but I don't know the correct combo DI in that matchup too.
What damaged you most in game 2 was imho the counterpick. Go for stages that have huge side zones or a platform setup that benefits you.
Although, he is a fastfaller, MK is the secondlightest (!) character in the game so Wario Ware isn't good for you (for stage choice I personally ban Final Destination, Yoshis Story and Wario Ware mostly, because of no platforms for combos or early death).
I would have taken Battlefield, you just SD'd, didn't really lose apart from that, did you? Dreamland might also be worth a try but it is better against characters that have worse recovery than you. He banned Yoshis Island wisely. Skyworld is also good for MK but it was banned I think. It is always your preference but I wouldn't have aimed for Wario Ware. I kind of agree with Lylat against Pit in game 3.
Against Egman, you won 3-0, so it didn't cost you, but you used too much dair in general. Double jump into dair is unsafe against every kind of WD away -> grab or other punish. Sometimes you used the dair because you were too high over the ground, probably short hop more instead of full jump. There are exceptions but against most character approaching from a full-jump-above is bad whereas approaching from a short-hop-diagonally-above (with nair usually) is better.
I saw some wiffed dash grabs. Might be execution errors but always keep in mind JC grab has 31% (!) more range than dash grab. Also think of dropping those Up-Smashes where you barely hit for SH uair becuase you get no followup out of the Up-Smash and could get punished if the opponent SDI's correctly. Otherwise, great punish game and use of bair. Good performance!

@ Kaysick Kaysick
Good games! Basically, don't go that high in the air because then you have to do the punishable dairs agains. Grab a bit more (this one is really important) and use fair a bit less. Actually, against Wario the fair usage was very good because Wario has neither the range to outspace the move nor the mobility to punish the endlag but there are few matchups where you should use it that often. More SHFFL nair instead of these Fullhop-> fair->Jump again->Dair. What surprised me positive was your control of the Shuttle loop. There are not many players using the possibility of turning up and down right and they will just turn up and fast-fall then if glide finished when they could go for a platform land or a techchase. You were playing more of a control-based MK trying to use the upper air room for himself and slowly getting in. That is legit but if you are fighting a character with a projectile you need to go in more directly and then grabbing and SH nair turn into even more important options. Again, my critique might be slightly inaccurate because I play kind of a different style more ground-oriented (Dashdance into grab or SH nair).

@ Chexr Chexr
Your MK is very good. Your techchases and combos were definetly on point and the Dimensional Cape usage was also impressive. My main suggestion would be thinking a bit more about your approach game. Most of the time you were just SHFFLing in and while this sometimes worked you aerialed your opponents shields too much and got shieldgrabbed. Sometimes a spaced d-tilt is good to avoid that because except against grab range monsters you stay out of their shield grab range. Also dashdancing and grabbing a bit more would help, your JC grab has a decent range (if you dont count actual ranged grabs like Link, Samus or Yoshi its ranked 8th). Also, dont dair people that arent in a positioin where they have limited options. It can lead to combos but it is too punishable. If you know it won't be shielded (your opponent jumped or something) it is actually good. Didn't watch it all but more than half an hour of it and congrats for winning it.
 
Kaysick

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Chesstiger2612 said:
OK here would be my suggestions:
Grab a bit more (this one is really important)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the critique, I appreciate it. Snipped everything else and bolded that suggestion. Its something I overall forget to do unless I'm playing Yoshi, I need to use it more often.
 
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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@ Croi Croi
Congratulations on getting 2nd. Against the Ice Climbers and Ganondorf there isn't really much I can suggest, probably because the opponents didn't put on the maximum resistance their character is capable of. Against Pit, you got crouchcancelled a bit too often, maybe a few more grabs and D-smashs at low percent and more f/d-tilts at higher percents. Try mixing up ASDI on the arrows (you can also use normal SDI but you have 3 or 4 frames for that is hard) to make arrow chains harder. You used up-smash a bit too much imho but it may also be personal preference. Against Ivy the strategy didn't really work. You were too high in the air and eating bairs and fairs for that. In that MU you daired to approach too much (bad against WD away -> grab or similar). I would prefer a more groundbased playstyle against Ivy. The thing is just, you need to perfect shield the Side-B (!). Then you can force Ivy in the defence. Its kind of hard but approaching from the air is more punishable. If he doesn't Side-B just run in (of course mix in dashdances to not be predictable) and grab or d-smash. Dash attack isn't really good to approach...
 
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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Good games ;)
I liked the way you naired offstage, pretty much instantly after a jump so you don't lose height...
MK is good in doubles, the only thing I don't like about him in doubles is that grabs are not worth that much (except for 2v1 obviously).
Charizard seems like a solid teammate, his nair often allows you to follow up and a teammate with little recovery issues seems important for MK. Thats probably because he has to go in otherwise and in teams that mixed control-aggression is the way to go imho (mainly because you often start combos with grabs and that doesn't really work in doubles, but you can combo out of a teammates' hit and otherwise playing the control style, waiting on the opportunity...)
That aside, I don't play that much doubles so probably someone else can judge it better than me.
 
Lawn Chair

Lawn Chair

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I have a recording of me analyzing your match @ dettadeus dettadeus I just have to compress the video and upload. Anyone have suggestions for a good video compressors?
 
dettadeus

dettadeus

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Thanks for the critique, I disagree with a few things though.
-My name is pronounced as if you took the M in Meta and replaced it with a D - people in my scene sometimes say I'm whipping out the "Detta Knight". Everyone seems to find a different pronunciation for it. :T
-Throws in teams - I had port priority throughout the entire match, meaning any attack that hit both me and the person I grabbed would have ended favorably for me. I basically never use Uthrow; I can see the merits in teams but it's harder to organize a followup from your teammate. This was the first time we had teamed together and we had only done about 4 or 5 matches so far, so our communication wasn't always perfect.
-10:00 - "Sometimes when you do those types of reaction aerials, you don't want to jump with them". Not jumping before Bair or Nair in that position could literally cause me to die. Also, had I not jumped, I would've missed the aerial altogether; if you look closely you can see Marth's double jump ring coming out just as I hit him with Bair. And MK has more than enough of a recovery to waste one jump on a potential edgeguard.
-12:42 - Have you played a Toon Link before? Fair, Uair, and Dair all hit obscenely hard, especially on someone as light as MK.
-13:20 - I know how safe that UpB is, I practically invented it. That's one of the primary reasons why I wanted to strike to Dreamland, it's just harder to find good openings for it in doubles.

Grand finals was against the same team, I'll post when it's uploaded.
 
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