Official Veterans Discussion

[ErenJager]

I would like to see every character that was ever playable in Smash, to be on the roster.
I don't think it's likely, but I would like it to happen.



It doesn't seem possible, but it would sure be epic!

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

I think they should decline Dr. Mario by giving him some abilities of the "doctor" copy ability from Kirby planet robobot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think they should decline Dr. Mario by giving him some abilities of the "doctor" copy ability from Kirby planet robobot.

Err.

I understand the desire to unclone Doc.

But why on earth would we give him Kirby stuff?

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Err.

I understand the desire to unclone Doc.

But why on earth would we give him Kirby stuff?

Well, it's just generic "doctor" stuff. And Dr. Mario has absolutely NO canon. I like what HAL has done with the "fighting doctor" thing.

Plus the Kirby copy ability was partly inspired by Dr. Mario, let's be honest.

 

[dezeray112]

Wolf and the Ice Climbers are the only two candidates I could see return.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sure. I want all the cut veterans to come back.

 

[Ghirahilda]

I really want a revamped to comeback, it's so freaking cute

Also, is SO MUCH BETTER than Charizard. I really don't understand the Charizard thing in Pokémon. Wish to have my Ivy back

I don't care for , I'm so sorry (actually not)

was a dumb cut made by Sakurai. Thats why I never liked the idea of a Smash game coming to both platforms. People don't like to understand this, but making the game for 3DS really holded back some better development. (BEWARE! THIS CAN CAUSE YOU TO BE SALTY!)

, I love him! He NEEDS to return! But I wish him to have more uniqueness...

was cut in favor of Toon Link. I think it will be a very rare and special ocasion if he ever return someday. I still dream the day that he returns with a Majora's Mask based moveset.

SNAAAAAKEEEEEEE! So original, so unique, I think Smash is missing him on the roster. (Better than Ryu)

Also, I'm in fear fo those characters:
- clones
- Third party (please, not my Bayo)
- Too much FE?
- Had already suffered the cut, but please, not again... It was a long fight o make Roy and Mewtwo to comeback, and Lucas?!NOOOO! I love him more than Ness!!!
I fear for them too! (SALTY WARNING VERSION 2)

AND THAT WILL BE ALL for now

 

[Alexis357]

I wish I could see returning in the next installment, I like how Fox and Falco play, but they don't entirely fit my play-style.
When I tryed Wolf in PM, it looks like I was mastering the general gameplay of Space Animals. Plus, wolf is my favorite animal. ^^

It would be also great to see , they have some unique critters that make them enjoyable to play or to fight against. I'm not a real fan of and , but I wouldn't bother if they were included even if I strongely doubt it's planned.

I don't think some DLC characters will dissapear as , because they were quite requested by the community, but I have some doubt for and , as it looks they were more here to promote others games. :/

I just hope that characters like and will not have the same fate than Snake.

 

[Karmaniac]

It should have every smash character to date especially . (Why did they remove him anyway? He was less of a clone than ).

 

[Megadoomer]

Also, I'm in fear fo those characters:
- clones
- Third party (please, not my Bayo)
- Too much FE?
- Had already suffered the cut, but please, not again... It was a long fight o make Roy and Mewtwo to comeback, and Lucas?!NOOOO! I love him more than Ness!!!
I fear for them too! (SALTY WARNING VERSION 2)

AND THAT WILL BE ALL for now

If it helps, I feel like most of them are safe. Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Roy, and Lucas were already cut and brought back; given that they were seen as important enough to bring back in the first place, I can't see them being cut again.

I figure that, if Sonic and Mega Man are safe, then Bayonetta and Ryu are in the same boat. I can't see them cutting the ballot winner, and given how much effort was put into Ryu (and how Capcom seems to have no problem with including him in crossovers), his removal seems pretty unlikely if they can get Mega Man back.

Greninja and Lucina are extremely popular within their own series, so they seem safe, and Namco-Bandai has almost always had close ties to Nintendo, so I find it unlikely that Pac-Man will be removed.

As for the Wii Fit Trainer, the only time that an entire series has been removed from Smash's roster is due to licensing (presumably, with Snake) or technical issues (with the Ice Climbers), and Wii Fit Trainer doesn't seem like she'll have either of those.

The only ones that I'm uncertain about are Dark Pit (given his reception, though if he's de-cloned somewhat, I feel like that would improve), Corrin (too many FE characters, though if they take a break with adding FE characters in the next game and focus on other series, that won't be as much of an issue), and Cloud (not sure if Square-Enix will be up for having him return or not).

 

[Karmaniac]

If people keep asking for Goku or any other weeb characters, than I'm gonna flip.

 

[A Distant Demon]

If people keep asking for Goku or any other weeb characters, than I'm gonna flip.

Wrong thread. This thread is purely for veterans

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

If people keep asking for Goku or any other weeb characters, than I'm gonna flip.

Wrong thread. This thread is purely for veterans

Right. you put this here https://smashboards.com/threads/super-smash-bros-for-switch-speculation-discussion.434391/

 

[Foxy Alopex]

, and are the only veterans that I want back in the next smash bros game.

 

[ssbashworld]

I dont see how wolf would not be added but i can say the same thing about him being dlc by now, ice climbers are kind of in the same boat i guess with the extra power of the switch eliminating the big excuse for their cut. Snake would be nice but i understand why not but who knows. I would enjoy a squirtle and ivysaur return but the demand for them and pichu and young link seems somewhat low so i dont see them happening but it still would be nice to see everyone back in the end.

 

[Cyro_]

I would love it if and came back but I don't think snake will ever return sadly.

 

[Freduardo]

I like a lot of characters in a fighting game, so I want them all.

I'd like Young Link to receive similar to the Roy treatment and be transformed into something more brand new, possibly using some masks.

I'd like Pichu to do more damage to further balance how much it takes from its own attacks*. And similarly be decloned moreso in his A button attacks.

Wolf's good. Ice Climbers are good.

I want squirrel back. I want him to have a new down b. And a taunt where he gets squirtle squad shades like in brawl hacks.

I want Ivysaur back. I want him to have a new down b.

And I want snake back, but I don't see it possible because Kojima doesn't work with Konami.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

The famed Ice Climbers Popo and Nana definatley. I would be okay with Pichu returning if they fix his fighting style.

But honestly I cannot recommend that the Ice Climbers return to Smash Bros enough. I even bought the game on my sister's and mine's Game Boy Advance just to check it out

 

[ryuu seika]

Ice Climbers and Wolf should definitely return. I'll accept Young Link if he's given Mask transformations and Majora's Mask Equiqment and Pichu if he gets turned into a semi-clone with moves that are easy to get combo's on and is speedy but is weaker and has less defence.

Ice Climbers are a definite but Wolf is in a weird position of being both an important character and a third iteration of a moveset. I'd say he can come back but only if he replaces Falco.

Young Link is a third Link, which would be a major struggle to get acceptance for and he doesn't represent half the franchise like Toon Link does. Plus, if transformation moves don't return, your way of making him unique falls flat.

Speaking of uniqueness, I am totally cool with buffing Pichu in the ways you suggest but he has to keep the self harm. It is what makes him and his playstyle unique, even if it is a huge drawback. Properly balancing him around it would make for a very interesting fighter.

Snake, I'm not fond of. His design just doesn't fit, IMO, but I have no other argument against him.

Sheik and Zero Suit Samus, however, make no real sense as continued inclusions unless transformations return.

I'd like Pichu to do more damage to further balance how much it takes from its own attacks*. And similarly be decloned moreso in his A button attacks.

There is no canon or even logical basis for Pichu being buffed to hit harder than Pikachu. I would rather he excel at speed and the ability to rack up hits than sheer damage potential.
Also, if you really want a heavy hitting Pikachu, why not just revert regular him to the N64 design, with weight, speed and damage adjusted to match?

 

[Luminario]

Sheik and Zero Suit Samus, however, make no real sense as continued inclusions unless transformations return.

I've never actually heard anyone even propose such an idea as to remove these two if transformations are gone.
Why would they be removed though? They're both unique fan favourite fighters whose transformation gimmick was holding all characters involved back.

 

[Cyro_]

I've never actually heard anyone even propose such an idea as to remove these two if transformations are gone.
Why would they be removed though? They're both unique fan favourite fighters whose transformation gimmick was holding all characters involved back.

I gotta agree with this. Imagine how annoying it would be to fight for a smash ball just to play ZSS. Or lose a Down-B move just to replace it with a transformation so you can play as the character you wanted.

 

[Luminario]

I gotta agree with this. Imagine how annoying it would be to fight for a smash ball just to play ZSS. Or lose a Down-B move just to replace it with a transformation so you can play as the character you wanted.

Imagine? I had to live through it for 2 games. Zelda has always been held back by Sheik and now that she's finally free of her alter-ego she can hopefully have improvements in future games assuming they're not put back together. Brawl was also pretty tragic for ZSS cause you either had to stay away from the smash balls, which let other people get it and kill you, or get it yourself and use it then go through the tedious motion of mashing left and right taunt until she finally transformed back.

 

[Curious Villager]

I gotta agree with this. Imagine how annoying it would be to fight for a smash ball just to play ZSS. Or lose a Down-B move just to replace it with a transformation so you can play as the character you wanted.

Why imagine it? You can just replay Brawl and Melee respectively to see how much that hindered the characters there. Especially with the pokemon of the Pokemon Trainer who even had a stamina gimmick to go along with that. (Although I guess that two of the three pokemon got downright cut from said next game entirely.....)

I don't think Sakurai will be going back to transformation characters again, I think he himself commented on that too during one of his interviews.

 

[Cyro_]

Why imagine it? You can just replay Brawl and Melee respectively to see how much that hindered the characters there. Especially with the pokemon of the Pokemon Trainer who even had a stamina gimmick to go along with that. (Although I guess that two of the three pokemon got downright cut from said next game entirely.....)

I don't think Sakurai will be going back to transformation characters again, I think he himself commented on that too during one of his interviews.

Very True.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think Sakurai will be going back to transformation characters again, I think he himself commented on that too during one of his interviews.

The irony of the story is that we do have Final Smash transformations. However, the transformations are temporary when compared to the standard fighter transformations.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

I kinda miss when you battled against a boss that still acted like a smash fighter, like giga bowser in Melee. So it won't matter if Ridley is too big, because GB is big too.

 

[ryuu seika]

I've never actually heard anyone even propose such an idea as to remove these two if transformations are gone.
Why would they be removed though? They're both unique fan favourite fighters whose transformation gimmick was holding all characters involved back.

Sheik is unique and well received with the competitive crowd but holds no ongoing relevance to the Legend of Zelda series as she has not appeared outside of spinoffs in some time and shows no signs of returning. In addition to this, she seems to almost never be picked by more casual Smash players, who presumably nolonger know one side character (albeit an important one) from a single game in the 90s.

What kept Sheik relevant going into Brawl was her connection to Zelda, which made her less of a character few knew and more an interesting second side to the princess that was a throwback for those who did.

Zero Suit Samus, on the other hand, was largely a gimmick to begin with. A means to show off the extent to which Final Smashes could change the game.

Sure, she was technically present from the series' beginnings, having shown up in credit scenes and when Samus was zapped. This were only minor cameos, however, and not even close to the same character design. In reality, what we got was only truly relevant to the recent release, Metroid Other M. One of the most poorly received Metroid games ever.

With that in mind, it's hard to say exactly why the two ever returned to SSB4 but my guess would be that Sakurai didn't want public outcry at the cut of transformations, more than anything. That and what other launch character had newly enhanced breasts for the competitive players to ogle?

Realistically, neither brings much to the series anymore but just because they seem like they should go doesn't mean they will. Sakurai doesn't do change

 

[FunAtParties]

Sheik is unique and well received with the competitive crowd but holds no ongoing relevance to the Legend of Zelda series as she has not appeared outside of spinoffs in some time and shows no signs of returning. In addition to this, she seems to almost never be picked by more casual Smash players, who presumably nolonger know one side character (albeit an important one) from a single game in the 90s.

What kept Sheik relevant going into Brawl was her connection to Zelda, which made her less of a character few knew and more an interesting second side to the princess that was a throwback for those who did.

Zero Suit Samus, on the other hand, was largely a gimmick to begin with. A means to show off the extent to which Final Smashes could change the game.

Sure, she was technically present from the series' beginnings, having shown up in credit scenes and when Samus was zapped. This were only minor cameos, however, and not even close to the same character design. In reality, what we got was only truly relevant to the recent release, Metroid Other M. One of the most poorly received Metroid games ever.

With that in mind, it's hard to say exactly why the two ever returned to SSB4 but my guess would be that Sakurai didn't want public outcry at the cut of transformations, more than anything. That and what other launch character had newly enhanced breasts for the competitive players to ogle?

Realistically, neither brings much to the series anymore but just because they seem like they should go doesn't mean they will. Sakurai doesn't do change

I mean, he cut transformations because they weren't working for whatever, but the characters were still fairly developed, so it wouldn't have made any sense to cut them then. If he knew preemptively, ttransformations wouldn't work ot, it stands to debate on whether he would've made the effort to bring them back or not, but as it stands now, it's fairly straightforward.

 

[Luminario]

Sheik is unique and well received with the competitive crowd but holds no ongoing relevance to the Legend of Zelda series as she has not appeared outside of spinoffs in some time and shows no signs of returning. In addition to this, she seems to almost never be picked by more casual Smash players, who presumably nolonger know one side character (albeit an important one) from a single game in the 90s.

What kept Sheik relevant going into Brawl was her connection to Zelda, which made her less of a character few knew and more an interesting second side to the princess that was a throwback for those who did.

Zero Suit Samus, on the other hand, was largely a gimmick to begin with. A means to show off the extent to which Final Smashes could change the game.

Sure, she was technically present from the series' beginnings, having shown up in credit scenes and when Samus was zapped. This were only minor cameos, however, and not even close to the same character design. In reality, what we got was only truly relevant to the recent release, Metroid Other M. One of the most poorly received Metroid games ever.

With that in mind, it's hard to say exactly why the two ever returned to SSB4 but my guess would be that Sakurai didn't want public outcry at the cut of transformations, more than anything. That and what other launch character had newly enhanced breasts for the competitive players to ogle?

Realistically, neither brings much to the series anymore but just because they seem like they should go doesn't mean they will. Sakurai doesn't do change

You do bring some good points there, but I still think you're wrong about them needing to be cut. They both bring something unique to the game as a speedy ninja and quick paralyzer/whip user and that is certainly what Sakurai focuses on first in regards to characters. People do seem to like them too, whether they're playing competitively or not. They're iconic to the smash series as a whole now, like Ice Climbers or Roy.
I completely agree on ZSS looking way too sexualised though, she's meant to be a 6'3 buff super soldier, not a blow up sex doll, let her look the part.

 

[ryuu seika]

Roy is iconic?

The rest I'm not going to argue with as, while my experience with people who don't take the game too seriously has suggested that they don't care about Sheik, my experience can't speak for everyone and it could be explained quite easily by either regional difference or simply random sample variance.

Movesets I can appreciate wanting to keep and, while swapping one unique moveset for another is technically no net loss, that assumes that the newcomers who would take Zero Suit and/or Sheik's spot(s) would be just as original and, even then, it wouldn't necessarily feel like no net loss.

Ultimately, arguing for cuts here is, due to the nature of the community, always going to be an uphill struggle. I am happy to see that you have managed to put forward reasonable counterpoints that make clear how the matter is less clear cut than I thought, while respecting and accepting my own opinion. Thanks for the maturity, guys.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah I don't see Roy as iconic to Smash at all. Ice Climbers have a unique playstyle that's really one of a kind, Roy is literally fire Marth and I don't think even his biggest supporters pretend him to be otherwise.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah Sheik is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things but she's popular, unique and a recurring vet so I don't see her going anywhere. Failing getting her own moveset I'd like to see Impa take Sheik's and simply replace her, but that's not happening either.

And Roy? I dunno, he's somewhere in the middle. He was a popular Melee character whose cut only made him more popular but obviously the series can move on without him, especially in the face of all them other FE characters and the new ones that will exist by the time Smash 5 proper starts culling characters for the roster. I like him but I'd rather see him cut than deal with an oversaturation of FE still. Though as pretty much a direct clone, with another character from the same game on the roster, my first choice for the axe is Lucina. From that series.

 

[Luminario]

Really didn't want it to look like I supported Roy here, he was just a character I thought of. I meant that thanks to smash people got a fixation on the child which got him in as DLC despite him being so similar to Marth. If he wasn't in smash he would have gone down the same route as so many other forgotten FE lords.

 

[ryuu seika]

Really didn't want it to look like I supported Roy here, he was just a character I thought of. I meant that thanks to smash people got a fixation on the child which got him in as DLC despite him being so similar to Marth. If he wasn't in smash he would have gone down the same route as so many other forgotten FE lords.

Well you're not wrong there but I feel like the love for Roy is a little superficial. Meme-based, even.
You see, Roy entered Melee with three main traits: fire, a catchy chant and being a worse version of Marth. The perfect trinity for a bandwagon fan Favourite.

Why? Because fire makes him visually unique and flashy without requiring any complex explanation. Because being a worse version of Marth makes him an underdog without making him bad. Because, when one person starts rooting for him, a catchy chant makes it both easy and tempting to join in. And because having that chant be canon means everyone knows the same one.
He's not a unique fighter. He doesn't play especially well. He's just fancy way of handicapping one's self to gain crowd support.

Or rather, he was until Smash 4. I understand they tweaked a lot to make him play like a Marth geared towards different tactics but, at the end of the day, he's still a Marth.

If, however, we are doomed to have multiple Marth's, I totally agree that Lucina, who is practically a canon clone of Marth, not just the same moves, should be the first to go.

 

[Lux]

I'm fine with any character returning. Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers feel the most natural, as they're not strictly clones and have an original play style. Heck, I'd be fine with Pichu if they redesigned him.

 

[Luminario]

Well you're not wrong there but I feel like the love for Roy is a little superficial. Meme-based, even.
You see, Roy entered Melee with three main traits: fire, a catchy chant and being a worse version of Marth. The perfect trinity for a bandwagon fan Favourite.

Why? Because fire makes him visually unique and flashy without requiring any complex explanation. Because being a worse version of Marth makes him an underdog without making him bad. Because, when one person starts rooting for him, a catchy chant makes it both easy and tempting to join in. And because having that chant be canon means everyone knows the same one.
He's not a unique fighter. He doesn't play especially well. He's just fancy way of handicapping one's self to gain crowd support.

Or rather, he was until Smash 4. I understand they tweaked a lot to make him play like a Marth geared towards different tactics but, at the end of the day, he's still a Marth.

If, however, we are doomed to have multiple Marth's, I totally agree that Lucina, who is practically a canon clone of Marth, not just the same moves, should be the first to go.

The way you murdered Roy so eloquently is just beautiful.
Lucina and Roy should definitely be very low priority next game. Lucina can easily be changed back into a Marth alt, since that's where she was originally planned for, and Roy is rather lacking as a character, with the only reason for his inclusion being the phrase "Roy's our boy".

 

[N3ON]

Really didn't want it to look like I supported Roy here, he was just a character I thought of. I meant that thanks to smash people got a fixation on the child which got him in as DLC despite him being so similar to Marth. If he wasn't in smash he would have gone down the same route as so many other forgotten FE lords.

There are worse things in the world than a cut character being re-added due to popular demand...

Well you're not wrong there but I feel like the love for Roy is a little superficial. Meme-based, even.
You see, Roy entered Melee with three main traits: fire, a catchy chant and being a worse version of Marth. The perfect trinity for a bandwagon fan Favourite.

Why? Because fire makes him visually unique and flashy without requiring any complex explanation. Because being a worse version of Marth makes him an underdog without making him bad. Because, when one person starts rooting for him, a catchy chant makes it both easy and tempting to join in. And because having that chant be canon means everyone knows the same one.
He's not a unique fighter. He doesn't play especially well. He's just fancy way of handicapping one's self to gain crowd support.

Or rather, he was until Smash 4. I understand they tweaked a lot to make him play like a Marth geared towards different tactics but, at the end of the day, he's still a Marth.

If, however, we are doomed to have multiple Marth's, I totally agree that Lucina, who is practically a canon clone of Marth, not just the same moves, should be the first to go.

You're saying people wanted Roy back because he's WORSE? That doesn't make any ****ing sense! Unless I missed the crowds of people cheering for Pichu's return. Most people really don't care about the competitive viability of the character when wanting them back. They can be as bad as Mewtwo in Melee or as good as Snake in Brawl. People just want the character back, because tier positions change. Plus fwiw, Roy was a character easier to get the hang of than Marth, given his sweetspot and added strength are more conducive to the average player. Popularity doesn't just stem from the competitive level of play, otherwise it'd be pretty limited.

Plus I'm inclined to think like half the roster has a meme that relates to them at this point. That's what happens when a series is big on the interwebs. Do you honestly think the majority of people play Roy so they can manipulate the crowd into cheering for them and then have a good hur dur moment over it? God that's a lot of effort.

Also, what kind of complex explanation are you looking for for why a character does something? Usually it's because they do something similar in their own game... and t3h ph1re is no different, the binding blade uses fire... it's not like Sakurai pulled it out of his ass. It'd be weirder if Roy didn't use fire. Plus a character like Falco had even less to separate himself from Fox in his first appearance, and people wanted him back too.

Like, I'm fine with Roy not coming back in the future, but this reasoning is weird, man. It's like digging for reasons to dislike Roy.

Here's a secret though: most character love in Smash is superficial. Most people don't play most of the series represented in Smash. The number of Nintendo series that outperform Smash games can be counted on one hand. So when they find an affinity for a character, it's largely because of how that character looks, or how that characters plays. Or both. People who know the backstory and actual characterization of the characters... those people are exceptions. You think people play as ROB because they had one? Not many.

the only reason for his inclusion being the phrase "Roy's our boy".

lol yeah for sure. Go back to the Roy for SSB4 thread and see how on the money you were.

The same way everyone wants Snake back for "Colonel, Samus took her clothes off" and "nothing at all" and such.

 

[Luminario]

lol yeah for sure. Go back to the Roy for SSB4 thread and see how on the money you were.

The same way everyone wants Snake back for "Colonel, Samus took her clothes off" and "nothing at all" and such.

It's kinda hypocritical of me hating on Roy while I support Daisy isn't it?
Edit: I change my mind I don't wanna get into another Roy argument, you lot got your reasons for supporting the kid, as baffling as they are to me.

 

[Floor]

Almost certain they are coming back. 98%
unsure how 3rd parties will work.
- probably not.

Off topic
- Also like 98% sure she's getting in.
- likely
likely

- no, there is not too much FE. FE is fine with 6 reps. LoZ should simply have more

 

[ryuu seika]

I'd be less certain on Doc but, aside from that, I don't disagree with any of your predictions. Wolf and Lucina I'd rather not see return and I'm that one guy who feels Pichu deserves a chance to shine but my desires are not the same as what's probable.