Vectoring: The replacement to Directional Influence in Smash 4

[Chiroz]

TL;DR, Oh look crouch cancelling is back :D

Have we decided if VI breaks combos or not?

From the tests that have been done, VI seems to be weaker than what DI was. Crouch cancelling is the thing that's actually quite potent and helps you survive a lot.

 

[Gidy]

From the tests that have been done, VI seems to be weaker than what DI was. Crouch cancelling is the thing that's actually quite potent and helps you survive a lot.

Excellent news!

 

[Big-Cat]

So now that we see that crouch canceling is back, what does this mean for DI then?

 

[Chiroz]

So now that we see that crouch canceling is back, what does this mean for DI then?

By the numbers of the last 3-4 testers it seems like VI/DI is actually weak (even weaker than DI in Melee/Brawl) but Crouch Cancelling seems to be extremely strong in terms of survival. By VI/DIng correctly you can survive about 130-140% from F-Smashes in the demo. By crouch cancelling you can survive up to 180% or slightly more.

 

[Tristan_win]

By the numbers of the last 3-4 testers it seems like VI/DI is actually weak (even weaker than DI in Melee/Brawl) but Crouch Cancelling seems to be extremely strong in terms of survival. By VI/DIng correctly you can survive about 130-140% from F-Smashes in the demo. By crouch cancelling you can survive up to 180% or slightly more.

If crouch canceling alone effecting the results so much then is it possible that VI doesn't really exist?

Has anyone tried to VI downwards while getting hit airborne?

 

[Big-Cat]

By the numbers of the last 3-4 testers it seems like VI/DI is actually weak (even weaker than DI in Melee/Brawl) but Crouch Cancelling seems to be extremely strong in terms of survival. By VI/DIng correctly you can survive about 130-140% from F-Smashes in the demo. By crouch cancelling you can survive up to 180% or slightly more.

So DI is still a tech chase then. Can you explain to be me why you would crouch cancel instead of shielding?

 

[Chiroz]

So DI is still a tech chase then. Can you explain to be me why you would crouch cancel instead of shielding?

You wouldn't I am guessing. But this might not exactly be "crouch" cancelling. It could be something similar yet different, more tests should be done I guess.

If crouch canceling alone effecting the results so much then is it possible that VI doesn't really exist?

Has anyone tried to VI downwards while getting hit airborne?

Yes, VI affects airborne hits, also the OP uses taunting in order to prove VI. It seems like VI affects almost the same as DI did in Melee/Brawl, slightly less (from the tests that have been done until now). But people seem to survive a lot more when the hit is vertical which currently we are theorizing to be due to crouch cancelling being back (which is a confirmed fact) but I guess more tests should be done from airborne hits.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah can we please test vertical KOs with Crouch Cancelling in mind now? I get the feeling it's not as bad as we initially thought and it's REALLY starting to make sense now....

 

[Reidlos Toof]

I just received a loading screen tip about this. It's called Hitstun Shuffling in the tip.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah, official name for this mechanic is "Hitstun Shuffling". As interesting as Vectoring sounds, I honestly think this explains it better.

 

[RogerWazup007]

Is there an earliest moment that you have to enter the direction?

 

[Gidy]

Haven't we already decided that VI isn't hitstun shuffling? Lol. It seems like the game was referring to Smash DI, if anything.

Also, now that this has had time within the hands of people, what do you think about it? Does it end combos? Is it innovative? I would like to know because I'm starting to lean towards liking this mechanic.

 

[Conda]

I wouldn't call it obnoxious personally but on a black background it can be somewhat hard to see if you have ****ty eyes or when your sleepy. Maybe just a shade brighter would be better if it's really bugging people.
example
example or example

Yeah, I changed mine to a white variation of blue a long time ago. Just helps me find my posts as I scroll through threads I'm rereading or checking on.

On-topic: Crouch cancelling is definitely very interesting. Not sure how useful it can be, as shielding is often the better input to be making when being hit while you're grounded. I didn't play melee at a high enough level back in the day to really utilize crouch cancelling.

 

[amiedema121]

27 pages tldr At what point can you input VI? I hope the response is "any" but i'm assuming it has to be done immediately? or the longer the vector has been put in increases the survivability?

 

[Tselel (5805)]

Guys. I've been Vectoring since the day I heard what DI was, and I just assumed I wasn't timing it right. I get to Smash 4 and I have a Lucario surviving smash attacks up to 180%.
I'm an idiot.

 

[Fachewachewa]

27 pages tldr At what point can you input VI? I hope the response is "any" but i'm assuming it has to be done immediately? or the longer the vector has been put in increases the survivability?

The input is read during hitlag, I think someone said it was on the last frame of hitlag like DI.

 

[Jaxas]

The input is read during hitlag, I think someone said it was on the last frame of hitlag like DI.

Sorry, that was me. I'll need to re-test though, as I've heard conflicting reports and I tested back when I thought VI was causing the super-survival that crouch cancelling was.

 

[FEAR977]

So if you're hit with a smash attack that sends you sideways, what direction do you hold now?

 

[Jaxas]

So if you're hit with a smash attack that sends you sideways, what direction do you hold now?

Theoretically the opposite direction you're flying, and a little bit up (for gravity)

 

[Boomuki]

Can you add or decrease ths knockback while flying, so is it ok to start holding the circle pad in a direction like 0.5 or 1 second after you got hit or do you have to make the input before or while you are being hit?

 

[Frostav]

Christ I have no idea why everyone was freaking out at first. I can't understand the obsession with keeping matches short, no do I understand the obsession with combos.

Yeah combos are hype for stream monsters but in most fighting games (I come from the Guilty Gear, Blazblue, and Persona 4 Arena scenes) they're just a means of getting as much damage as possible. Personally I find neutral to be far more interesting since you get to see how the players work to open each other up.

I've been using this ever since I heard about it on here and honestly I don't really see the effects much.

 

[shininimuss]

well fox's down throw to fair to upair no longer works on mario thanks to vi.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Do you survive better if you VI upon getting hit to reduce knockback then DI to avoid the blast zones? Or is it better to just fully VI the entire time? This is a key question I can't seem to understand based on this thread. I have been surving to over 200% with Zelda when I try a combination of the two.

 

[Tselel (5805)]

Do you survive better if you VI upon getting hit to reduce knockback then DI to avoid the blast zones? Or is it better to just fully VI the entire time? This is a key question I can't seem to understand based on this thread. I have been surving to over 200% with Zelda when I try a combination of the two.

Seems to me that what you want to do is stop your outward momentum with your VI then once you see that the fullest amount of vectoring has been done, you now can shift your direction without detracting from the slowed momentum of your vectoring. It's hard to explain, but it's easy to feel.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Seems to me that what you want to do is stop your outward momentum with your VI then once you see that the fullest amount of vectoring has been done, you now can shift your direction without detracting from the slowed momentum of your vectoring. It's hard to explain, but it's easy to feel.

Yeah thats exactly what I meant that I alsp feel is best. Just wanted to make sure it was true because my intuition/feels isnt always the facts.

 

[guedes the brawler]

You wouldn't I am guessing. But this might not exactly be "crouch" cancelling. It could be something similar yet different, more tests should be done I guess.

it's really niche an di have no true examples of it, but if a attack pushes you too far away when shielding, maybe CC would be a better option.

really niche

 

[DeLux]

Have we decided if we're going to continue calling this vectoring despite the name given to the mechanic by the development team?

 

[Jaxas]

Have we decided if we're going to continue calling this vectoring despite the name given to the mechanic by the development team?

I haven't seen anyone refer to it as anything but Vectoring for a while, so despite the fact that I'm not a huge fan of the name, I believe it has now stuck.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Have we decided if we're going to continue calling this vectoring despite the name given to the mechanic by the development team?

What would that be?

All I've heard of that's official is Hitstun Shuffling, which as far as I know, is SDI

 

[DeLux]

What would that be?

All I've heard of that's official is Hitstun Shuffling, which as far as I know, is SDI

Are we sure that's SDI and not Vectoring? SDI occurs during hitlag, Vectoring alters hitstun properities thus hitstun shuffling?

 

[Chiroz]

Are we sure that's SDI and not Vectoring? SDI occurs during hitlag, Vectoring alters hitstun properities thus hitstun shuffling?

SDI happens during hitstun. Hitlag normally refers to the lag the attacker suffers after hitting, while hitstun is the lag suffered by the defender.

Vectoring doesn't affect hitstun for all we know (Although someone should test this). Strongbad had said that no matter which direction you vectored it seemed like hitstun remained the same.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Are we sure that's SDI and not Vectoring? SDI occurs during hitlag, Vectoring alters hitstun properities thus hitstun shuffling?

What the Smash community calls hitlag, most other fighting games call hitstun. The Smash community is weird that way.

 

[DeLux]

Yea, I was going to chalk it up to a definitions difference. I have a suspicion on how the two are related in this game, but I need to put some testing in before I start making unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Doval]

SDI happens during hitstun. Hitlag normally refers to the lag the attacker suffers after hitting, while hitstun is the lag suffered by the defender.

No, hitlag is the time both the attacker and defender are frozen. It's crucial to maintain the distinction between the defender's hit lag and hit stun because hit lag is the time to do SDI, DI/Vectoring, and in some cases teching.

Hit lag also doesn't contribute to the attacker's frame advantage except for electric attacks in Brawl, which inflicted more hit lag on the defender than the attacker.

 

[LancerStaff]

Have we decided if we're going to continue calling this vectoring despite the name given to the mechanic by the development team?

What looks more like shuffling? Slowly shifting around in a rapid attack, or changing the way you fly?

 

[otter]

What the Smash community calls hitlag, most other fighting games call hitstun. The Smash community is weird that way.

You're mistaken. Hit lag is hen the entire game freezes for a second to give a feeling of impact and give the player time to input another move or directional influence. Even god of war and such games use generous hit lag (aka hit pause).

 

[Kaii]

So DI is still a tech chase then. Can you explain to be me why you would crouch cancel instead of shielding?

Crouching is faster and safer (if your shield is about to break), and you could avoid grabs (it depends on the characters). Imo, crouching is not worse than shielding, depends on the situation.

 

[Neo Zero]

I've concluded some testing of my own. I apologize if some of this is redundant, I'm just going to cover everything I have noticed.

First off, lets look at how we know DI was in the past. You hold a direction, and it alters your base knockback. Now with Vectoring, or as it should be called, Hitstun Shuffling, that's not necessarily the case. What do I mean? An example.

Little Mac is hit with a Bomb omb at 44% on the left edge of the right platform on Gerudo Valley. I hold no direction, and I wind up just before the left platform. I hold down now, and land where the bridge starts, under the sign post. I then tap down and I land in the exact same place.

That seems odd doesn't it? The tap and held inputs resulted in the same landing place. Well, that's because of how your momentum direction is determined. Upon any one hit (this is important later) you can input ONE direction to alter how you fly. What's important to note is that holding the input doesn't matter. Once the game registers the input, your flight path is set, and cannot be altered until you leave hitstun. So how does the game determine this?

Say youre holding right on a hit, the game would read that held input and then alter your flight path accordingly. Even if I began to mash left at this point, or hold down, or anything, my flight path would NOT change. In the earliest frames of hitlag is where you're input is determined. If you say, input nothing and then after you start moving a bit you input down, you're still considered moving with no directional influence since that's the input the game recorded.

Now for the actual Vectoring part of this. For simplicity sake lets say that Neutral is 0 and an Input all the way up has a value of 100. An example

I'm Dedede at 42%, on the lowest left platform on the right side of it on Gaur Plains. I input a vector value of 0 while in hitlag (again, with help of Mr Bomb Omb). I then proceed to get knocked back, flying just under the 2nd platform from the top on the right side. I then input a vector value of 100 in the same scenario, gliding a bit under the top right platform, and a bit above the 2nd top right one. Now, I do this one more time, holding the stick between 0 and 100 up (let's say at about 50). My flight path causes me to land on the left edge of the 2nd top right platform, where I can then tech. Meaning the "strength" of the input alters how you shuffle your momentum, and not just the direction. So where your stick is at the time of flight beginning determines how you move.

Finally, as mentioned, the ratio of Vectoring goes 1:1, 1 vector input for 1 individual cause of hitlag. If a move, lets say a Pit Fair, multihits (in this case, 3 times) then for each individual hit you can input a vector value for each corresponding hit, possibly allowing you to escape a multi hit move before the final launching hit. Holding an input does not work though....to a degree. A held input would alter the first hit and the last hits trajectory, but not any of the weaker multihits (or at least, the effect isn't as noticeable)

And that's all the research I've conducted over the last week.

 

[M15t3R E]

So is the rule of thumb to always input a vector towards the middle of the stage when launched?

Meaning the "strength" of the input alters how you shuffle your momentum, and not just the direction.

And this is the difference between "tilting" in a direction to a degree and moving the stick all the way in that direction?

 

[Neo Zero]

In basic terms, yes, an input all the way to the right and an input halfway to the right have different effects, no different then say the diffrence from up right and right