[v3.02] "killbot.avi." R.O.B. Video Thread

Jity

Smash Apprentice
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#81
Ah, alright then. I guess I need to keep working on my punish game knowledge then.
 

Djanko

Smash Rookie
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Jan 30, 2015
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North Van B.C. Canada
#82
So I finally ended up in stream after going to a few tourneys and I feel like this is the perfect opportunity to improve on my ROB play. My tag is Jank and I play mostly ROB. THis is the stream link: http://www.twitch.tv/dazee_/b/631550288 and I play at 5:38, 33:41 (against a top ranked player in my scene, looking for the most help against him), 1:07:16, and 1:22:30. any critique is encouraged. Thanks!
 

Jity

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#83
I'm about to sleep so I can't really look at any of your matches in detail, but something I've noticed even at a glance is that you don't really mixup your recovery. You always try to Boost Nair right into the D3 and you never do anything different, so he's able to exploit that. The strength of ROB's recovery is that you can mix it up; if they know where you're going as ROB when you're recovering, then you get ledge guarded fairly easily due to not getting your boosts back once used. Use your range and multiple options in the air to stay unpredictable. On top of that, consider using your boosts to recover to the top platform when you're knocked high above the stage like in game 1 against D3, and then with your refreshed boosts you can start to consider a safe way to get back to the main part of the stage to play neutral again.

Your neutral game is bad, let's just say that bluntly; in game 2 against the D3, your primary option was just to boost in and Nair, which the D3 would see coming, shield, and punish. Not every approach has to be a Boosted Aerial; ROB's ground game can be really good too with dash cancel Dtilts/jabs and glidetosses. Learn to space yourself safely on the ground and use Boosts for mixups or reads. And while we're on the subject of glidetosses, learn to use and love the beyblade. It's ROB's greatest tool and his greatest ally; master it and you'll open up a huge part of your gameplay with the character. Of it's many uses, you can strong glidetoss forward into a shield and confirm into a grab, you can AGT in order to add even more distance to your recovery, you can keep it in your hand and maintain the threat of a full screen hitbox at literally any point in neutral, you can use it with a glidetoss as your most useful out of shield option, etc. The beyblade is easily the best part of ROB's toolkit, so you absolutely need to learn how to use it if you're going to play the character seriously.

I'll take a look at the other games and do a more in depth analysis tomorrow if I have time, but those are the biggest things I've noticed. Just mixup how you get back to stage and mixup how you approach in neutral (or even consider just not approaching).
 

Djanko

Smash Rookie
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Jan 30, 2015
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North Van B.C. Canada
#84
If you wouldn't mind me asking, what's the easiest way to cancel dash? I usually use crouch but I feel like it's too slow and dash attack comes out. Is a wavedash in place the best way or is there something else?
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
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May 2, 2014
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Grand Rapids, MI
#85
crouch is definitely faster than wavedash. You technically only need to crouch for 1 frame whereas wavedash has the entire jumpsquat duration in addition to 10 frames of landing lag which you can't act out of. Any slowness you perceive is just human input error.
 
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Joined
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#86
He is probably trying to crouch out of the initial dash animation, which is in fact slower because the game forces you to wait for the initial dash to end before you can crouch. Out of a full run though, yeah crouch is by far the fastest way to cancel it.
 

berto

Smash Rookie
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Austin, Tx
#90

Zaa

Smash Rookie
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Mar 17, 2015
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#91
@ Serj28 Serj28 Im not a very experienced player so take what I say with a grain of salt. For big things there was 2 things I noticed. The falcon matchup is really volatile and for being combo'd so hard Rob has his CG's and his edgegaurds. Especially in the first game there was times where you had gotten a grab and missed the follow up one. I struggle with this match up a lot and that was a really big thing that helped me get through it. Another thing was that you seemed to miss quite a few L-cancels especially on shield. The timing is really weird for it but there was a couple times where you missed an L-Cancel on boosted fair and got killed for it. The other thing I noticed was that you seemed to almost let your guard down once you were pressured into the corner. Especially the first two games it seemed like once you were on the edge you just ate a knee or threw out a silly option such as a shield grab when he was dash dancing and got easily punished for it. However on a better note, it looked like your edgegaurd game was really crisp especially the FD game.
 

Serj28

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
26
#92
@ Serj28 Serj28 Im not a very experienced player so take what I say with a grain of salt. For big things there was 2 things I noticed. The falcon matchup is really volatile and for being combo'd so hard Rob has his CG's and his edgegaurds. Especially in the first game there was times where you had gotten a grab and missed the follow up one. I struggle with this match up a lot and that was a really big thing that helped me get through it. Another thing was that you seemed to miss quite a few L-cancels especially on shield. The timing is really weird for it but there was a couple times where you missed an L-Cancel on boosted fair and got killed for it. The other thing I noticed was that you seemed to almost let your guard down once you were pressured into the corner. Especially the first two games it seemed like once you were on the edge you just ate a knee or threw out a silly option such as a shield grab when he was dash dancing and got easily punished for it. However on a better note, it looked like your edgegaurd game was really crisp especially the FD game.
Thanks for the reply, will work on those things!
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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#93
It's been awhile, but I'm back! ;) Perhaps this thread should be renamed, seeing as how we're submitting 3.5 vids now. It's already stickied, so it would be easier than creating a new thread, I would think.
I've been going to a lot of tourneys recently, and I've ultra-consistently been placing Top 3, but not a lot of streaming/recording happens at the tourneys I go to. I did manage to get a ROB match recorded, though.

Bubbaking (ROB, Samus) vs Advil (C.Falcon) (Only game 1 is ROB)

Any critique or feedback is welcome! :)
 

bubbaking

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#95
[quote="Heero Yuy, post: 19295065, member: 217944"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPQU_sW0Wzs[/quote]
I only watched the first match.

You really need to raise your frequency of successful techs, lolz. Don't boost nair in so predictably (almost every ROB has this problem).

1:10 - You definitely could have gotten a combo off of that utilt, be it another utilt or a fair or something. Following up with jabs was very sub-optimal.

2:06 - Lolz, what? Not sure what that was, but that was an easy combo opportunity.

2:08 - In this kind of knockdown situation, I prefer to quickly dtilt to cover the missed tech. On hit, it would have pushed her off of or really close to the ledge, which is really good for you. On whiff (meaning she teched), you can generally react to everything other than the self-pinning tech away towards the ledge with dsmash.

If ZSS is proving to be blaster heavy, you can throw out a few more sideBs. The slow projectile speed covers you pretty well, and the hitlag allows you to combo off of it easily, so it's a low risk, high reward strategy.

Don't recover high into boost nair so much. The low recoveries for the ledge were much better.

Btw, you don't always have to use both jabs to make something safe, especially at low %'s when both hits can be CC'd. You can always just jab once and go for a mix-up. Things like jab > grab, jab > dsmash, or even linked CC jabs (jab 1 > jab 1) are a thing. Consider working those into your gameplay.
 

Zaa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
18
#98
Didn't get to do a full analysis but the main thing I saw was that you dont really ever grab ledge. There was times were your opponent only had up b and you still went for an off stage edgeguard where grabbing ledge would have sufficed. And also imo FD is THE R.O.B map vs Falcon just due to low ceiling and the chaingrab.
 

Serj28

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
26
#99
Didn't get to do a full analysis but the main thing I saw was that you dont really ever grab ledge. There was times were your opponent only had up b and you still went for an off stage edgeguard where grabbing ledge would have sufficed. And also imo FD is THE R.O.B map vs Falcon just due to low ceiling and the chaingrab.
Dunno how I missed that but you're super right. so many times I could have just held ledge and taken the stock. One of my training partners is a falcon and I'm used to going off stage and styling I guess I over look the simple option.
TY!
 

bubbaking

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I only really analyzed the second match of the first GFs set. The first match just seemed like you had a very strong start, but almost choked the game away with a series of rushed, hastily made decisions.

Lolz, how many bans did you have and why did you leave this stage open? Out of all the small stages, I guess WW is the best after FoD, but it's still too small and Marth can easily reach the plats with fsmash and other moves.

3:07:15 - Not a bad string you had going right here. However, your major mistake was in trying to follow him the way you did. Your main concern should have been to try to get to ground-level before Marth so you could maintain your positional advantage. Instead, you jumped out and let him get under you, which is the worst possible place for him to be. If anything, you could have maybe tried to follow up with a laser or gyro snipe, but jumping off like that wasn't a good idea since he can immediately rebuff anything you try with his own more disjointed moves.

3:07:15 to 3:07:24 - This is all the result of that one bad choice.

3:07:33 - Not exactly sure why you ran all the way across the stage to let Marth back on for free. Maybe you weren't confident in your own superior position? One of Marth's weaknesses is getting off the ledge, especially against chars with good CC games. If you stay just out of reach of ledgehop aerials, you are in a good position to heavily pressure any attempt he makes to get back on. If you go a little closer, you can bait out certain unsafe ledge options, such as ledgehop fair, and punish them with a CCC. You were at 0, so that was easily feasible, and with the ledge invincibility limit, just maintaining that position forces him to make a decision or you can start hitting him. Definitely shouldn't have just dashed away like that...

3:07:36 - Personally, I would have tried to snipe him with a laser here after that dsmash to tack on some more damage and make his recovery back a little more difficult.

3:07:38 - Again, why are you trying to jump out at him like that when he can stuff you with any move?

3:07:54 - Alright, spamster... Random boost nair into two dsmashes? The first move was a hail-mary attempt, the dsmash was a panic reaction to missing at point-blank range, but the second dsmash was just scrubby.

3:08:18 - Can't really blame you for the trade not going your way like that. However, with only two boosts left and Marth standing right by the ledge, I would have either [fast option] immediately boosted forwards for the low platform (and prayed that Marth didn't read that with a tipper fsmash) or [safe option] boosted upwards and hoped that I could juke Marth out with my options of aerials and landing on/dropping through either or both of the plats. With that safer option, even if Marth read/reacted properly and hit you, an aerial probably would not kill and you can DI that high to make your chances of getting back even better. All you need to do is get your feet on the ground for an instant in order to get your full recovery back. That should have been the prime objective here, not trying to make a low recovery for the ledge.

3:08:31 - I know we're all fond of the gyro, but seriously, you should have left it. After that dsmash, you could have immediately tech-chased him for free on that platform with an assortment of moves (I would have gone for dash usmash, but you also had utilt and all of your aerials, boosted or not, at your disposal). Going back for that gyro cost you your advantage, and you didn't even get any positional advantage off it. You immediately threw it away, and didn't go nearly as far as you would have gone if you'd just dashed after Marth immediately.

3:08:36 - You are trying to spot dodge > (CC) dsmash way too much. You've kinda been doing it all match whenever Marth was really close, but it was excusable until now. Your wake-up call should have been when you tried to nair into two whiffed downsmashes earlier and Marth just baited them out and daired you. At this point, the Marth is just spacing himself so you can't hit him with CC dsmash. Now I'm not saying that CC is a bad idea, but the dsmash is what's really bad. You could, say, CC shield and aim to WD OoS after Marth's next move. Not only was your choice of dsmash punished, but you're spamming it so hard in this really bad position that you ended up doing dair offstage.

3:08:40 - The gyro was a really good move, but you should know that moving forwards is enough of an action towards taking the ledge that it will bait Marth into upBing early, especially since the gyro missed. I would have used this to bait the early upB and punish it with dtilt or dangled fsmash.

3:09:00 - Rule of thumb is that you want to stay under Marth because that is where he is weakest. You could have easily reacted to this get-up roll with dash usmash, but you went for the non-guaranteed nair, which was directly punished.

3:09:10 - Not gonna condemn the laser choice, but gyro may have been more suitable here. Would have limited Marth's options and then, once safely behind it, you could consider shooting a laser or something.

3:09:15 - So I was actually expecting you to get fsmashed here, because that was not good DI. At this high of a %, I believe Marth can only get a kill combo off of fthrow, so once he grabbed you, you should have just been holding the stick down and away. In any case, doesn't really matter because he didn't follow up. However, afterwards...

3:09:17 - ...you should have done anything but that. It's endgame and you're at very high %'s. Your only goal at this moment should have been to get back onstage whilst avoiding ALL of Marth's kill moves so that you could get another shot at taking out Marth. With this in mind, the best options were to either boost for that close high platform or keep boosting past it and try to land somewhere past Marth. Going down and trying to hit him with one of your slowest moves was a very bad idea, and it was a no-brainer for Marth to just keep his extremely advantageous position and utilt you.

All in all, your play wasn't that bad. You had pretty good punish strings and you were willing to push him very offstage with your combos. However, your decision-making needs some work. There were a lot of times when you overextended yourself and gave up your advantageous positions, others when you gave up free follow-ups for arbitrary things like picking up the gyro, and others when you tried to challenge Marth in positions where you really should have just been looking for ways to recover around him. You also have a bad spam/panic reaction habit, and going by this game, it looks like he'd completely adapted to it when he had the advantage, so one can understand why he 3-0'd you in the second set. You did have some nice glide tosses, though. :)
 
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Serj28

Smash Cadet
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Jan 22, 2015
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Thanks for that very detailed response! I'll fix those habits and take it to him next tournament!
 
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idk why they are different colors, I thought it was just on my end, but if you can see it
and also no, just posting them here because they are ROB videos, and this is a ROB video thread
 

Serj28

Smash Cadet
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Jan 22, 2015
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idk why they are different colors, I thought it was just on my end, but if you can see it
and also no, just posting them here because they are ROB videos, and this is a ROB video thread
What do you think about Dair into Up smash or Bair around kill % on Ivy's recovery?
 
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I mean, you need to know where she is going to drift to and land, in order to get the dair, the hitbox is actually not that wide. If she drifts offstage she can just either tech the dair and recover or meteor cancel. Trying to hit her before she drifts too far doesn't work because she will still be airborne, we don't have enough drifting power to wait react and choose where to dair her without using the double jump momentum to get us to the right spot, but if we use the double jump to position ourselves, we have to wait out reaction time + movement time + dair start-up time, and dair isn't exactly quick. I'm not really sure what the best way to handle Ivy's tether is. I generally just cover all the options with ledge hop nair so I don't have to worry about reacting; thanks to the weak hit, this is now better as it gives a better follow-up opportunity is she drifts instage before getting hit. If she drifts back, the angle of the nair means no matter what, the strong hit will land from behind us and send her slightly offstage to way offstage, with no possibility to DI instage. This will also kill her at high enough percents depending on DI, usually starting around 100 for the worst possible survival DI.
 
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