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[v3.02] "killbot.avi." R.O.B. Video Thread

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I'm watching people's videos. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKa9QscARH8

Despite getting wrecked, I'm wondering what ya'll think of my buddy's ROB. I keep telling him to work on mobility so he doesn't get put into bad positions so often. He loves the stand still/defensive method of things.

Any comments or critics I should throw his way?
Your friend needs to improve his play around his gyro. Several times, Strong Bad would try to pick up the gyro right in front of ROB and he would fail and get hit by it, but SaltE would just let it slide and whiff fsmashes. If someone gets hit by ROB's gryo like that, you can ftilt him, you can rush in and grab him, you can do a LOT of things. Just...take advantage of the situation. Speaking of gyros, I think SaltE dedicated way too much energy to always having a gyro out. It's a good tool, but he downright got himself in some bad situations because of it; Strong Bad even picked it up and used it against him a couple times. Also, SaltE has a bad habit of almost always approaching with boost nair to the point that became somewhat predictable. He rarely used boost fair and never used boost cross-up bair.

I'll have a more detailed analysis later, but that was what greatly stuck out to me.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Any comments or critics I should throw his way?
Definitely too much gyro! >_<

Game 1
0:11 - See? You started the match with a gyro and it instantly ended up in SB's hands. You could have easily just started with a tilted laser or something.
0:27 - I'm pretty sure Wario's dair is not safe on block. You should be able to nab him with a fair or uair OoS. Not exactly sure why you tried to shieldgrab him. O.o
0:36 - Good grab, but you can be a lot greedier than that. You can get at least one more uair after that, but you seemed more concerned with re-picking up that gyro than with extending your combo. -_-
0:44 - Another thing I noticed is that you very rarely tilt. Well-spaced tilts can beat out a lot of Wario's moves. In this case, you could have utilted (or just shielded and hit him OoS). I have a feeling that you were too concerned with that gyro, though...
0:46 - Bad move. Wario just threw you to the edge to pin you. It's a panic reaction to immediately jump and try to force yourself through to the middle with an aerial. SB immediately called that out and got you.
0:52 - What? You just knocked Wario down right in front of you and instead of trying to tech-chase, you choose to throw out a gyro and let SB take back the advantage? >.< In that EXACT position, you can literally cover every single get-up option on-reaction, since SB didn't tech, if you just walk forward a tiny bit. If SB rolls in, you can dsmash. If he gets up in place or get-up attacks, you can ftilt, fsmash, DA, or grab him. If he rolls away, you can DA or sideB him. You had all of these options and you chose to throw out a gyro? (-_-')
1:05 - That was actually pretty smart to use your invincibility to lay down the gyro to try to pen SB in, and it was a fair call to try to catch the jump over it, but not only did you let SB pick up the gyro, you also failed to punish him for getting hit by it first. However, the moment Wario picked it up, you should have sideB'd in (just like you did at the beginning of the match). Your opponent can't standardly attack you while he's holding your gyro, and if you're rushing at him with sideB (which is also a reflector), he doesn't really have many options. Take advantage of this if you know the opponent likes to pick up your gyro.
1:10 - JC your grabs. I don't think you would have been punished here if you'd done that.
1:50 - Nice catch there! :D
1:58 - If you're going to use gyro so much, then use it right! Why didn't you just shieldtoss the gyro up here?
2:06 - You went for the gyro after that excellent edgeguarding situation that you put him in? You could have just dropped down with fair > DJ fair and covered most, if not all, of Wario's options.
2:13 - Get greedy, man, 'cause Wario certainly is and it's paying off!
2:14 - That's a really nice set-up, and you really should have used it more. ;) Set the gyro and then laser above it to catch the jump or at it to punish the pick-up.
2:15 - Didn't respect his ledge options. Should've stayed about a tilt's distance away to punish any get-up attempts.
2:19 - That boost nair was very predictable, so you should at least make sure not to miss the L-cancel. :p
2:27 - .....Why don't you just shieldtoss in place and punish that?
3:02 - That was really cool! I like a lot!
3:35 - That's what I'm talking about! He picks up your gyro? You turn the tables in his face with sideB! :smash: Btw, I believe you can get a nair off the throw in that situation. Might've killed... <__<
3:39 - That gyro directly got you punished and killed.
3:47 - Why do you keep trying to shieldgrab his dair on your shield? At least roll out before he comes on top of you with a command grab or something.
3:50 - Predictable nair is predictable. Not only do you boost nair a lot, but you're falling to the same pattern. Boost away > boost back in > aerial. Mix it up, mah dude!

Game 2
4:33 - You definitely could have combo'd off of that usmash. You need to work on your capitalization.
4:42 - Gyrooooooooo! >=[] That one was directly responsible for you being hit. It was just a terrible time to try to pull one out.
4:44 - Two of your bad habits were called out right here. You like to SH and try to zone with nair a lot instead of zoning with tilts, so SB just charged right in and jumped into you when you went for that. You also tend to go high and try to boost in with nair, so he deliberately DJ'd up there and punched you out of it.
4:56 - Man, you REALLY want to pull out that gyro, don't you? :3
5:01 - You tried to do it again. Boost away > boost back in > nair. SB blatantly called that one out, too. He would have totally missed if you were doing anything else.
5:04 - Dude, you've seriously got to move around a bit more to avoid that ridiculous mix-up. It's all positioning, so if you're not in that position, then Wario can't bite you.
5:24 - SH nair is a really bad habit of yours. It's much better to zone with SH fair. Much less start-up and lag and more reach.
5:29 - One of the worst gyros ever. You're really throwing it out a lot in positions where Wario can just hit you for free.
6:04 - Utilt or don't even be under Wario. You know he's going to do it.
6:30 - I'm not sure if the run-off gyro was intentional or a mistake, but you could have just grabbed the ledge after your DJ (ROB grabs it from pretty far down). Boosting so high above it really opened you up. If anything, you should have at least pushed out a fair as you were popping over the ledge to cover yourself.
6:54 - Shield that early and you're bound to be bitten. Gotta keep movin' and zonin'.
6:56 - Boost away > boost back > fair.
7:40 - Boost away > boost back > nair (see what I'm saying?)
7:46 - Ledgehop nair regrab is not safe. After SB tried to grab you, a ledgehop fair would have been much more appropriate in trying to catch him and push him away so that you could get back onstage.
7:49 - You never boost back onto the stage. You always use regular get-ups, like ledgejump and ledge attack. In this case, it just got you killed, but a boost fair from the ledge probably could have shoved past SB.

It would actually do you a lot of good to try jabbing when Wario is up close and in your face instead of doing a panic dsmash, nair, or jump. ROB's jab is really good, and you rarely used it (on top of his tilts).

So in general, try to be less predictable, zone more with tilts, and take it easy with the gyro.

Your movement and execution is actually pretty solid. I just question some of your judgement. You mostly lost this set to bad decisions, and it may have been due to a lack of match-up experience (you seemed to fall for a lot of 'Wario jank'). I think if you polish that up, you could be a real force to be reckoned with! ;)
 

faderpotater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
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97
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Florida
Just wanted to say for a pretty casual R.O.B player like me who is looking for some tech to improve my game to a respectable level against my much more competitive friends, these videos are great, your time in uploading them is much appreciated.
 

Jity

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Hey. Hello. Hi. Uh, so, I've been playing ROB for a little while now and I think I'm ready to receive some public criticism, so here are some tournament sets from a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjYZ9tQZvVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN1jCqJfbSY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QhjsoegeYk

So, any help I could get would be appreciated. General gameplay, specific ROB things, strategies I should be taking that I'm not, strategies I am taking that I shouldn't be, whatever you feel is appropriate. Thanks in advance.
 

DrinkingFood

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Beaumont, TX
Hey it's only been like 2 months since somebody posted here. Even the title hasn't been updated for the new patch lol
I'll see if I can't give some feedback just as soon I finish watching those
@ Juushichi Juushichi
 
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Jity

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Anything you can give me! I appreciate any help.
 

DrinkingFood

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Messages
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Beaumont, TX
Well first I can tell you I have almost no exp against squirtle players, so really I'm at a loss there, since you won it doesn't seem too important anyways.
Against GnW, the name of the game is outspacing fair and bair, if you can successfully DD around them for grabs, you're gonna be in the clear, because ROB doesn't have any issues maneuvering past bacon clouds with grounded side-b. Gyro in this matchup is gonna be more useful for making him approach than laser, since he can bucket laser on reaction for safety and a better KO tool.

In general, and particularly against falco and charizard since it is so effective, step up your punishment game. I saw a lot of missed opportunities for continuing combos or simply landing something like an upair to push the opponent further from center stage, where instead you would often just let them get back down to the ground so you could continue your camp game. I also saw a lot of situations where you would cause knockdown with frame advantage on the tech (like boost fairing into falco and knocking him down) and you opted to do something like shoot a gyro instead of going for a tech chase. ROB isn't fast, but dsmash often covers most options and he's got good grab reach both can be used for improving your chances of a successful chase.
Something you should know, ROB can CG falco from about 0-70 percent (might be higher; also it's crazy hard at low percents) before falco can jump out of it. Platforms can get in the way of this around 35-40% (depends on damage staling of the throw) on PS2 with no DI/backwards DI, higher on most other neutrals, but in that scenario you can just uthrow, which sends them high enough that up can follow up before it becomes a tech chase situation on the platform, and if they DI the uthrow away to avoid that, you can follow them up still, not as well, plus they lose a lot more stage space in the process. To add to this, at low-to-mid percents, you can land a grab on spacies off a dsmash if they DI badly or don't DI, which transitions into the dthrow CG I mentioned. that CG also leads into various things on spacies like fsmash or usmash for kills.
For fat heavy chars like charizard, ROB can get guaranteed damage off dthrow at 0 percent regardless of DI by simply dthrowing, hitting with the front hitbox of bair, then regrabbing before they can shield (bair doesn't knock down heavies until 20-22). After that, dthrow can lead into fairs/soft fairs or upairs that lead into more fairs or upairs if they DI up or don't DI, and regrabs if they DI down. At higher percent's you can still land those, but nairs and bairs are better because if it doesn't kill, it will still give you all the stage space you need to set-up with gyro, or to get them above you where ROB thrives in outreaching opponents with upair or upsmash or utilt (or glide toss upthrow gyro to knock them sideways into an upair combo if you are feeling extra 20XX).

Also important to note that getting a gyro in hand doesn't mean you have to camp. Getting aggressive with a gyro on deck can be a great mix-up, and having one with you automatically makes you a lot safer: glide tosses OoS are better than his rolls, Z dropping a gyro while getting combo'd puts out a hitbox on frame one instead of frame 7, like his fastest aerial fair does, glide toss upward covers options from opponents coming down better than anything else, and at any moment your opponent knowws you have the potentateal to put out a hitbox across the stage to cause knockdown. So if you have one in hand, boosting in with fair becomes safer, because you can just glide toss away if you hit shield while keeping the pressure on, or use it to more easily follow up if you hit them by smacking them with a gyro before they hit the ground and can tech.

I also noticed you didn't use all your available options from the ledge. There are two ways to get a gyro from the edge. The first is gyro jumping backwards from the edge, the tech is show here but not in particular from the ledge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rWtMwZvKY&t=44 that way is less safe, because it puts you further offstage and gives them more room to work with edgeguarding you, as well as expending your jump and probably a boost to get back. My preferred way is shooting a uncharged gyro onstage from a ledge hop, regrabbing edge, then instantly ledgehooping again and boosting onstage and perfectly wavelanding to grab the gyro and simultaneously sliding either back to the ledge or further onstage (or nowhere at all if you like) much like what is shown here (didn't use it to pick up gyro though since I already had it in hand): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sszKx7fveKs&t=174 I find that safer because the worst they can do is pick up the gyro, and they have to be close and quick to do that, and you can threaten them with ledge hop lasers, ledge hop double fairs, ledge hop fair-> boost, or other ledge hop aerials.

I think that's all I can stand to type for now, good luck.
 

Jity

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Thank you so much for the reply. A lot of the top tech is stuff that I didn't even know or didn't realize, so that's really appreciated. I'll definitely try to incorporate that into some of my play overall. And I definitely appreciate your advice on the matchup specific stuff; coming from Brawl, a lot of the Melee characters tend to overwhelm me with pressure, so it's a little bit of a pain to deal with. I'll try some of the chain grab stuff in the lab tonight and see how it goes.

Again, thanks. It means a lot to get advice from Louisiana's top ROB. :D
 

Jams.

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Going to post some videos; hopefully they're not too terrible. I'd greatly appreciate some criticism about my play, especially against spacies as I get bodied in this matchup (mostly because I drop edgeguards and the CG way too often >.<). Videos are ordered from newest to oldest.

http://youtu.be/IIQBGKiNYh4
http://youtu.be/Gzia5Nw2xUQ
http://youtu.be/4lKu2FEj2yY

http://youtu.be/atYF1tgx1t4
http://youtu.be/8PaJGtfuvUk

Once again, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Edit: @ DrinkingFood DrinkingFood please systematically dismantle my ROB play, I'd really appreciate it. I think you're probably busy, so no hurry and I understand if you just don't want to. I just added this edit since I saw you give advice to Animage in a different thread.
 
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Jity

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Going to post some videos; hopefully they're not too terrible. I'd greatly appreciate some criticism about my play, especially against spacies as I get bodied in this matchup (mostly because I drop edgeguards and the CG way too often >.<). Videos are ordered from newest to oldest.

http://youtu.be/IIQBGKiNYh4
http://youtu.be/Gzia5Nw2xUQ
http://youtu.be/4lKu2FEj2yY

http://youtu.be/atYF1tgx1t4
http://youtu.be/8PaJGtfuvUk

Once again, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Edit: @ DrinkingFood DrinkingFood please systematically dismantle my ROB play, I'd really appreciate it. I think you're probably busy, so no hurry and I understand if you just don't want to. I just added this edit since I saw you give advice to Animage in a different thread.
I know I'm not Drinking Food, but I hope I'm good enough to credibly give advice.

Watching your first game:

The thing you did from like 2:43-2:50 was good. During the tech chase after, though, I find that it's typically really effective to dash cancel Dsmash in order to cover their options, since it's got a fairly large hitbox, lasts a little while, and pops them back up to get combo'd again.

Overall you seriously need to work on your movement; in particular I caught you shielding right after an L-cancel way more often than you should ever be, which makes me think that you're holding down your shoulder button of choice way too long when you L-cancel. On top of that, you stand still. A lot. You almost never want to be JUST standing still, even if your opponent is across the stage. I always try to keep myself mobile even in the middle of camping someone out, because this makes certain that your movement is difficult to predict, and also allows you to keep your share of the control over the spacing between you and your opponent.

Speaking of predictability, you have this habit of hiding in your shield whenever something you don't understand or don't like is happening. Shielding is okay, but with ROB, especially for extended periods of time like you seem to like to do, shielding is far from your best option. ROB's shield and OOS game are both sub-par (I've been shield poked at full shield more times than I care to admit), so the less time you spend in your shield, the better. Shield shouldn't be your first resort, especially after a failed approach option. (More times than once I saw that you would go for a boost fair, miss, and then immediately shield even if the opponent wasn't in a good position to punish.) Instead, to cover yourself if you end up whiffing an attack, one of the best options ROB has, I've discovered, is to L-cancel > glidetoss away. This works to avoid punish on a shield hit and to reposition yourself before a punish if you whiff. (As a bonus, if you do happen to find yourself needing to be in shield, glidetoss OOS is one of ROB's best OOS options in my opinion.)

You also need to mix up your approach options; a more aggressive ROB isn't bad, and actually can be really good (see Oracle), but you can't just Boost Fair or Boost Nair all the time and expect it to work. I saw you try to mix things up a couple of times (Like the glidetoss approach at around 5:25 and the semi-dash-dance thing at around 5:48), but going back to the point about movement, you were just too slow to really make it work; Wolf had too much time to react.

As for matchup specific things, edge guarding Wolf is kind of weird compared to the other spacies. Whereas with Falco and Fox (and Cpt. Falcon too) you want to go off stage and knock them away, with Wolf I've been told that it's more effective to wait for them to make it back to stage and then punish them in their recovery frames. For me, at least, it's seemed to be more effective than trying to edge guard them like a traditional spacie.

Going to Fox and Falco, though, edge guarding them is, in theory at least, a cakewalk. Laser their phantasm when you hear the "Ding!" that telegraphs it, if you see them charge Fox/Bird fire, just boost/jump out and knock them away with fair as many times as you need to to make sure they can't get back. DO NOT underestimate the utility of hogging the ledge; I saw you let Wolf back to stage for free more times than I could count because you were just so uncomfortable going off the stage that you refused to even grab the ledge. Against spacies especially, if you see that they can only make it back to stage by grabbing the ledge, and you're in a position to grab it first, always, always take it. Otherwise you're denying yourself a free kill.

I hope that covers most of it; if any more experienced ROBs want to jump in and correct anything, they're more than welcome to.
 

Dandizzle

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ey m8 haven't ever seem you 'round these parts in awhile. Hope you'll keep writing good stuff like that in the other threads. :)
 
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Dandizzle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 20, 2013
Messages
269
Location
Long Island, NY
Alright here we go:
44:57 seemed like a good idea to catch that gyro with a jump then either throw it at him with an AGT or waveland on the platform from there. Also a nice thing to do on some stages with platforms when you start is walking off the side of the platform towards the ledge, then wavebouncing it towards the opponent. Keeps you at a safe distance and gives you a gyro.
44:58 I know Side-B reflects the lasers and gets you grabs sometimes, but it has to be before the laser is in your face. You also kept trying to do it which would of gotten you read and punished 99 percent of the time. You do do another arm rotor and then you get punished, make sure you keep mixing up your play and space your rotors.
45:03 I liked that, it was a good mixup and you crossed the nair up so if he shielded it you wouldn't be punished as hard.
45:18 This was pretty nice just should of read Falco's reaction to the gyro hit better.
45:32 That probably could of been a grab instead of a wimpy jab.
Overall you missed a couple of L-cancels which is never good but you took two stocks for none of your own. You did great.
Match 2:
47:00 Side-B was good but you could of wavedashed to pick up the gyro and work from there. I'm only saying this because you seem to use this move a bit too much and it gets predictable.
47:01 Grab probably would of worked there
47:03 Boost nairs to come down become really predictable if you use them a lot I would of wavelanded onto the platform then work from there.
47:13 Laser was the wrong move to use there, that was a free DACUS and even if you didn't know how to dacus you could of done a lot of better things like grabbed. Now the laser is on cooldown.
47:16 You seem to assume things in a tech chase and play a guessing game when in most cases you can just react or wait it out a bit more.
47:20 Stop spinningggggggggg. I would of wavebounced a gyro or shot a laser there because he basically gave you the entire stage to work with.
47:26 Jumping there was strange anyway and like I said before falling nair gets read. In tech chases on the ground you can usually get grabs or a DACUS which is cash.
47:49 Here you play pretty smart, do stuff like this all the time when you have the space.
47:52 It's pretty perdictable and easy to react to throwing a gyro at that distance. You could of ran up and glidetossed or just held it and saw what happened. Glide tossing and AGT is god like and I haven't really seen it that often along with wavelanding and DACUS, all things you should learn. I know you were nervous this match but a lot of your mistakes seem to come from impatience.
47:07 Way too much respect, probably should of edgedashed and from the ledgejump a booster into a waveland on the platform would be good although risky, but it's not like you had much of a better choice from that jump.
48:24 I'm pretty sure that fair would of led into DACUS which is one of the reasons it is so godlike. DACUS is pretty good if they have a small shield which he has after, but you rotor'd.
Now a lot of stuff happens and I don't see anything to criminial besides a missed L-cancel here and there and could of probably thrown in a laser or two. There's missed punishes and other mistakes but nothing that seems you really messed up. And a little tip to throw in is the last place you wanna be, especially against a character like Roy is above him. 49:23 You get out but you had to get more out. Also consider things like shield dropping in those situations.
49:36 Could of just gyrojumped, even though it doesn't matter much, just overall you need to do stuff like gyro jumping and etc. more. Have you seen 1UP's advanced gyro guide because it really, really helped my play.
49:41 If you wanted the gyro back you could of just wavelanded out of booster. Overall you don't waveland enough and don't seem too smooth around the gyro.
49:49 You can't really go for stuff like jabs when someone is at a low percent like that because of CC. Grabs ignore CC and are still fantastic, plus give pretty free followups.
49:52 I don't call it out every time but you are spinning outta control m8.
50:01 Wasn't a good choice, should of edgedashed. Most of his kills if I remember correctly come from you being on ledge, which is a terrible spot to be, but you can get back up in better ways.
50:10 Be a bit more creative in your combo DI, in that situation I would of tried to airdodge/waveland onto a platform, then shield drop of something.
50:22 R.O.B's rolls are absolutely terrible and you use them too much, not like you really had too much to do there, maybe a UpSmash OOS or maybe even Up-B could of got you out.
50:31 This whole section of play you probably could of laser'd but you did eventually.
50:39 Probably the most noticeable example of missing an L-cancel messing you up and boost fair wasn't a good idea there anyway because Roy could of easily intercepted it with nair or something,

You got 4 stocks in total so you totally carried your weight. The main mental things you gotta get over is arm rotor spam and not using gyro and laser when given the space, too aggro sometimes. DI could use some touching up but that's just experience. The main thing you gotta work on is tech skill, L-cancels, gyro/item tech, wavebounces/Breversals, wavelanding/platform movement and DACUS. Any R.O.B who doesn't DACUS is missing out I know it's hard but it't totally worth it once you can do it on command. Good luck further on, there's a lot of good Texan players so you have plenty of people to work with.
 
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berto

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Austin, Tx
Awesome man! thanks for the feedback.

I know its no excuse and it's something that I really need to work on, but I tend to play so predictable whenever I'm under pressure and miss simple basic tech skills.

What you said about trying to assume things in a tech chase is something I never really noticed until right now.

I'll do my best to wreck in my weekly so hopefully I'll have another video on here after this Thursday to get more feedback

Thanks again man
 

Jams.

+15 Attack
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
542
Location
Calgary, AB
NNID
DumberChild
I know I'm not Drinking Food, but I hope I'm good enough to credibly give advice.

Watching your first game:

The thing you did from like 2:43-2:50 was good. During the tech chase after, though, I find that it's typically really effective to dash cancel Dsmash in order to cover their options, since it's got a fairly large hitbox, lasts a little while, and pops them back up to get combo'd again.

Overall you seriously need to work on your movement; in particular I caught you shielding right after an L-cancel way more often than you should ever be, which makes me think that you're holding down your shoulder button of choice way too long when you L-cancel. On top of that, you stand still. A lot. You almost never want to be JUST standing still, even if your opponent is across the stage. I always try to keep myself mobile even in the middle of camping someone out, because this makes certain that your movement is difficult to predict, and also allows you to keep your share of the control over the spacing between you and your opponent.

Speaking of predictability, you have this habit of hiding in your shield whenever something you don't understand or don't like is happening. Shielding is okay, but with ROB, especially for extended periods of time like you seem to like to do, shielding is far from your best option. ROB's shield and OOS game are both sub-par (I've been shield poked at full shield more times than I care to admit), so the less time you spend in your shield, the better. Shield shouldn't be your first resort, especially after a failed approach option. (More times than once I saw that you would go for a boost fair, miss, and then immediately shield even if the opponent wasn't in a good position to punish.) Instead, to cover yourself if you end up whiffing an attack, one of the best options ROB has, I've discovered, is to L-cancel > glidetoss away. This works to avoid punish on a shield hit and to reposition yourself before a punish if you whiff. (As a bonus, if you do happen to find yourself needing to be in shield, glidetoss OOS is one of ROB's best OOS options in my opinion.)

You also need to mix up your approach options; a more aggressive ROB isn't bad, and actually can be really good (see Oracle), but you can't just Boost Fair or Boost Nair all the time and expect it to work. I saw you try to mix things up a couple of times (Like the glidetoss approach at around 5:25 and the semi-dash-dance thing at around 5:48), but going back to the point about movement, you were just too slow to really make it work; Wolf had too much time to react.

As for matchup specific things, edge guarding Wolf is kind of weird compared to the other spacies. Whereas with Falco and Fox (and Cpt. Falcon too) you want to go off stage and knock them away, with Wolf I've been told that it's more effective to wait for them to make it back to stage and then punish them in their recovery frames. For me, at least, it's seemed to be more effective than trying to edge guard them like a traditional spacie.

Going to Fox and Falco, though, edge guarding them is, in theory at least, a cakewalk. Laser their phantasm when you hear the "Ding!" that telegraphs it, if you see them charge Fox/Bird fire, just boost/jump out and knock them away with fair as many times as you need to to make sure they can't get back. DO NOT underestimate the utility of hogging the ledge; I saw you let Wolf back to stage for free more times than I could count because you were just so uncomfortable going off the stage that you refused to even grab the ledge. Against spacies especially, if you see that they can only make it back to stage by grabbing the ledge, and you're in a position to grab it first, always, always take it. Otherwise you're denying yourself a free kill.

I hope that covers most of it; if any more experienced ROBs want to jump in and correct anything, they're more than welcome to.
Thank you very much for the advice, I really appreciate it! It seems like I should work on speeding up my gameplay to keep up with faster opponents, and also polish my tech.

Don't mind that DrinkingFood tag too much, I just edited it in since he was critiquing some people's videos earlier. Your advice is very helpful.
 

Sneez

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
105
wassup, I was recently on stream for the first time, played against ipunchkids. I would be down for some feedback. From what I can tell I should grab more, stay closer to my top when i put it out, get better at using the right aerial for where my opponent is at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnnM9K5Lzi8
 

(1UP)

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
104
Location
Columbus, OH
both of you use laser pretty intelligently, and keep distance without having to shield very much, which is awesome;
i did feel like u-tilt was criminally underused though. i may be picky since i use it a good deal as a combo starter (and often pick stages with platforms, where it's more effective) but in many situations it can lead to an extended combo string and often ends with the opponent offstage
 
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(1UP)

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
104
Location
Columbus, OH
get a haircut son
consider it a compliment that that's the one real issue i saw in that footage
 

jjvirus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
2,188
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
I have some videos from me vs. Boss at last week's Xanadu. I got 2nd overall (out of 35).

Here's my stream set for Grand Finals vs. Boss where he obliterated me with Mario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulUrSoUTDfg

Then here are games 2 and 3 from my winner's bracket set with Boss' Falco. We went Fox game 1, but that, unfortunately wasn't recorded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPNTCRo18j8&list=UUdK61SJe-UiTlyMvvw_WO0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058pInvS3YI&list=UUdK61SJe-UiTlyMvvw_WO0Q

Any feedback on my R.O.B. would be appreciated.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I'm starting to really catch the ROB tailwinds so I want y'all to help me improve! I played ROB in two matches at a tournament last weekend, and this is the only recorded game I have (47:43):
http://www.twitch.tv/zerotodeath/b/621881499

Probably a bad stage to play on, but I didn't really consider that at the time, lol.

[defiant ignorance to 3.02 title]
 
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cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
did I see an aerial down-b to z-grab to glide toss to ledge at 2:46 vs. TC? Holy **** this character's awesome. Time to learn
 

Jity

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
94
Location
Norman, OK
NNID
Jitty_009
3DS FC
2363-6509-4817
DrinkingFood you should consider incorporating DACUS into your play. Especially in the set against TC, your low percent Uthrows against Sheik looked like they would've definitely confirmed into a DACUS, but instead you drop any sort of followup.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
5,600
Location
Beaumont, TX
Can't rewatch it now to see where I missed follow ups since I'm on mobile. But I know how to DACUS and have uses for it but generally I prefer another follow-up out of uthrow, like fair or uair, to start a carry offstage instead of upsmash which they could easily just DI in towards the stage and have a chance of escaping a follow-up afterwards by getting onto a platform, then possibly even resetting to neutral. Alternatively, you could get off two fairs for the same damage or more, and you'll have them at or off the edge.

EDIT: just watched the vid in question, the two uthrows I assume you are referring to was just me being stupid and choosing the wrong throw. It's better to dthrow below 20, uthrow is more situational for like 20-40.
 
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Jity

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
94
Location
Norman, OK
NNID
Jitty_009
3DS FC
2363-6509-4817
On a fast faller at low percent couldn't you combo out of DACUS anyway? At least in the situation that I noticed it in, where Uthrow put Sheik on a Warioware platform, Fair wouldn't have given you an opportunity to combo off stage, but rather a tech chase situation on a platform, while DACUS would've lead into a potential combo that, while it wouldn't have necessarily given you positional advantage, would have racked on damage more efficiently. Maybe my priorities are backwards, but given the choice between a tech chase situation and guaranteed damage I would probably go for the damage.

Anyway, I'm due for my annual check up. Here are some VODs from a weekly I attended last Tuesday.

Jitty vs. S4J - Winner's Round 3
Jitty vs. Gnosis - Winner's Semis
Jitty vs. Flashing Fire - Winner's Finals
Jitty vs. Gnosis - Grand Finals Set 1
Jitty vs. Gnosis - Grand Finals Set 2

Any and all critiques are welcome, from stuff that's ROB specific to more fundamental criticisms. I'm all ears.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
5,600
Location
Beaumont, TX
Usmash has too much endlag to combo well, except on super FFers at specific percents, but there's no reason you'd ever really need to do that anyway given you can chaingrab and gimp them into oblivion

But anyway, in that situation I should have dthrown anyway, not uthrown. In fact both times I uthrew and missed the follow-up I should have dthrown, I was in the same position both times (but mirrored) and dthrow wouldn't have allowed him to get onto a platform in the fist place, I could have just regrabbed or SH fair/uair and gone from there.
 
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