Use more Down Air.

[Kitamerby]

Seriously! This move is just amazing. It's the second fastest spike in the game with a hitbox as early as frame 7, only slower than Falco's(frame 6), with immense range and kill power. The huge disjoint and range is just obscene for a spike of its calibur, making it a stellar addition to Marth's already obscene gimping game, allowing him to tear through a good chunk of the cast's recovery specials that other spikes can only dream about intercepting due to lacking Marth's extreme disjoint.


Here's something to have fun with. You may not know this, but Marth's Dair actually has an AMAZING amount of horizontal disjoint. Try autocanceling it with a full hop to intercept aerial approaches and set up a very, very gay tech chase.

Its' also an amazing tool to use out of grab releases, as it's guaranteed on quite a few characters, including Meta Knight as I recall.

 

[Rad]

I disagree personally.

The range of D-air is off-set a great deal by the need to hit a tipper. While the disjointed sweet-spot might let Marth hit recoveries that others' cannot, that doesn’t make it practical. The wash of horizontal and vertical spacing means you need to know exactly where your opponent is going to be to meteor smash them reliably, which is only possible against a predictable recovery.

If you don’t rising D-air you die, and the best hitboxes are behind Marth, making ledge hop and RAR the best options (hitting with the front of D-air requires an enemy to be in the stupidest places anyway). Those two options are very telegraphed, very punishable, and require your opponent to be in very specific places.

The ‘pure spike’ on frame seven is the hitbox directly below Marth, which has got to be the hardest to hit if your opponent isn’t Snake / footstooled / recovering stupidly just above the ledge.

I would rather edgeguard an opponent recovering stupidly 99% of the time. D-air ‘places’ seem to be N-air ‘places’ as well, and if I’m hanging off the ledge, I’d rather get up and start a ledge trap, than risk 59 frames of lag as I get gimped / edgeguarded myself.

EDIT: I don't know about the anti-air 'tech chase,' having never tried it, but I can't see it as the best option in most situations. Jab, F-tilt, shield grab, and a number of other things are pretty good on aerial approaches already, and they aren't as punishable if you miss. I'm a scrub ignore me.

 

[Shaya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Dair is not guaranteed out of a grab release on Meta Knight except at specific spacing near the edge (which requires you to do a ledge cancelled jump to do it in time).

Also Full hop Dair is already a well known good OUT OF SHIELD OPTION, but using it to intercept recoveries is, for the most part, terribad... unless it's DK or a STUPID META KNIGHT (and I mean really stupid, you know the ones that -always- shuttle loop? yeah those ones).

 

[Rad]

using it to intercept recoveries is, for the most part, terribad... unless it's DK or a STUPID META KNIGHT.

Aren't there still enough better options to make D-air in-viable beyond super-rare mix-up in those situations? F-air, N-air, and possibly B-air have to auto-trump D-air in terms of 'amazing horizontal disjoint' against an extremely predictable recovery, and that's before considering ground options.

... although I think this is a troll because of Pierce.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Dair is not guaranteed out of a grab release on Meta Knight except at specific spacing near the edge (which requires you to do a ledge cancelled jump to do it in time).

Also Full hop Dair is already a well known good OUT OF SHIELD OPTION, but using it to intercept recoveries is, for the most part, terribad... unless it's DK or a STUPID META KNIGHT (and I mean really stupid, you know the ones that -always- shuttle loop? yeah those ones).

mike says he tested it with michaelhey and he couldn't get out of it


confirmation plx

 

[mikeHAZE]

it works despite numbers for whatever reason. you just have to claw it and buffer dash/spacing right.


if you're too fast you won't tipper the dair and get the stupid whiffed one

 

[Shaya]

SIGH.

There's a couple of reasons for me to think it's possible these days,
for one I wasn't aware of Marth having a stupid hitbox on his dair on frame 7 (and frame 7 only).
Also that during his full hop he rises vertically a little bit faster too.

But,
I believe jumping, uair, and jump + airdodge should always get you freeeeeee.

 

[Shaya]

Also guys, Marth's grab release to dair on meta knight ON STAGE is real

I dont know how I failed to do it in the past... but, yeah

Grab Release IASA: 29
Initiate FULL HOP*: 39 (refer as x)
Buffer Dair: x + 1
Hit: x + 11 (e.g. 50)

*full hop is holding onto jump the ENTIRE start up of the jump (4 frames).

Meta Knight can uair to hit you frame 52, and frame 53 he's invincible from his air dodge.
Meaning you only have frames 39-41 (3 frames) to initiate the full hop buffered dair.
Marth can buffer a dash on frame 28/29 to start dashing frame 30.

The 3 frame margin for error is shared between the dair and the buffered dash.
If you start to dash on frame 32, you will only be able to hit him on frame 52 by starting the buffered fh dair on frame 41.

Why didnt this work for me in the past? Full hops. Making sure you rise from the ground with forward momentum is probably a requirement I ignored too. I also ignored it because after the initial hype mikehaze brought he said "tyrant started consistantly getting out of it". :|

Also yada yada MK will die from a fresh dair off stage guaranteed at like 50%.

If you're practicing, MK lands on the ground on frame 56. So if you land it and MK doesn't bounce back up you're at least getting it on frame 55 or before.
Trying to do it properly ive gotten it before frame 56 like once out of 20

**** YOU MIKEHAZE, MAKING ME PROVE MYSELF WRONG AG- wait I'm not exactly sure if you've done this before <3

 

[ChibixD]

Dair fast fall suicide kills are sexy

 

[Palpi]

run off-stage hold down so you don't fast fall it.

 

[legion598]

can someone explain this frame 7 hit box to me it sounds fascinating. Dair is quite useful against SNAKE, fox, falco, link, DK, jiggz, kirby sometimes, and im sure theirs more. I wouldnt discount it as a good option in certain situations. The full bop dair doesnt sound all that great to me :/. OS it sounds cool tho might try that sometime

 

[zeldspazz]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=262300

Coincidence? I think not?

I lurk boards whose characters I dont use too much >.<

 

[Pierce7d]

He's just trolling because I tried to tell the MKs they weren't using DownB enough/correctly. Little does he know that I barely read the Marth boards anymore, but I did see this thread because it was pretty lulzy.

PS: I do use Dair.

 

[Shadowserpant]

What's all this talk of fast falled deaths? Why not just down tilt and NOT fast fall?

 

[HeroMystic]

You guys got trolled.

 

[legion598]

can someone explain this frame 7 hit box to me? it sounds fascinating. Dair is quite useful against SNAKE, fox, falco, link, DK, jiggz, kirby sometimes, and im sure theirs more. I wouldnt discount it as a good option in certain situations. The full bop dair doesnt sound all that great to me :/. OS it sounds cool tho might try that sometime

my question remains unanswered

 

[phi1ny3]

What's there to explain? It's a hitbox that comes out on frame 7, a unit of measurement for time to execute a move (fps)

 

[legion598]

The ‘pure spike’ on frame seven is the hitbox directly below Marth, which has got to be the hardest to hit if your opponent isn’t Snake / footstooled / recovering stupidly just above the ledge.

pure spike? as in not a meteor

 

[Rad]

A temporary 'pure' spike (270 degrees) occurs on frame 7
that is 40% larger than the other hitboxes.

Frame Data thread.

It is technically a Meteor Smash.

don't quote me if i'm wrong which i'm not

 

[gunterrsmash01]

So if Marth can grab release spike MK from ANYWHERE on the stage, can't he

Grab release spike MK
regrab
Grab release spike MK
regrab
Grab release spike MK (at the edge now)
MK is dead because you spiked him off stage now......

I'm assuming they can avoid the regrab, lol if this **** worked Marth would counter MK

 

[LooftWaffles]

pure spike? as in not a meteor

Pure spike, as in being parallel to the vertical axis (270 degrees)

 

[legion598]

oh ok thanks for clarifying