uPick Mafia Ultimate ⭐ Game over! Did the game contain more than a single legal character by the end of its life cycle? Or is it no items, Hades only?

Will you be playing Smash Ultimate instead of this game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Maybe so

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • The only game I play is Mafia

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 1 4.8%

  • Total voters
    21

#HBC | Nabe

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JTB

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BarDulL BarDulL is my best friend and no one is going to steal him away from me

But I still want to hear more about why Kary. I could read into it more now, but I got a lot of work to do before getting wasted tonight with my co-workers :happysheep:
 
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Alright, I have sometime now, don't count on much else.
Deadline is in 7 hours, right?
why is that likely what happened? Are maven/opo among those you think did so and if not, why are maven/opo more important?
Mafia had no knowledge of the identity of the traitor. There's no way the change from Maven to Moydow wasn't scum-oriented, last minute shuffles almost never happen due to Town input, much less to someone who literally couldn't defend themselves and because of that, Moydow was an easy target in the Mafia's eyes to save one of their own.

As for Opo, his is a different issue, I've already explained this but Town Opo is much more aggressive and generally tends to get on the bad side of the Town. This time he hasn't committed to anything while remained mostly quiet.
I can do this, but please be aware that you're asking me to discard the information gained from a known mafia flip - i.e. the best source of information available to us. I'll address today first, and work my way backwards.



Proposing Maven/Opo as a lynch in light of Moy's flip, when Moy was hard pushing Maven and also encouraging OpoLynch is pretty weird from a town PoV. Why would you wagon the people the traitor was shade-casting on D1? Especially when the mafia were aware there was a traitor, but not who it was, Moy pushing on their scumteam would make the main mafia unlikely to think that she was the traitor, leading them the wrong way and putting Moy at NK risk.

But what I really hate is the second bit here. It's a very "test the waters" statement. I feel like Town!Shish is probably more interested in either their preferred scum targets OR in Marisa. Scum!Shish can instead make a lukewarm statement, see if it catches on, and proceed based on that information, which is what I think is being done here.
You keep saying Moy was pushing for Maven even though you also said she unvoted him, an unvote which you thought put me under suspicion when you mistakenly thought it was on me. If the evidence changes depending on who is put under suspicion, this is either unwilling bias or deliberately gunning for me.

Also, you speak as if we played enough games together for you to know my habits.
Regardless, I thought Marisa was an unique case before so I wasn't really sure how to proceed with it.
Moy hard pushed Maven, which I think makes little sense as an unknown traitor (likely to get you NKed) and Maven was very nearly our lynch.
Opo was also on Moy's hitlist, along with "lurkers" in general.
You're acting as if it's impossible that Moydow tried to distance herself from her Scumbuddies in case one of them flipped which is literally Mafia 101.
Hmm...Looking back at Day One, Shish's response to the Moydow wagon, at first, was a seemingly more passive "I don't like this" type of thing, and only went full "y'all better not **** up" after it was already set in stone. To me, that seems decently odd. He had some real hang ups about inactivity earlier when voting for me, claiming I only said anything "because he prompted me" or something similar. So there's a sort of inflated self-view of personal sway...but yet he really didn't strongly sway folks away from the Moydow bandwagon, only offering blanket disapproval.

Maybe it's just late, but does that seem oddly inconsistent with anyone? Like, being so gung-ho on a specific lynch only to not really fight for it when crunch time sways another way, despite usually doing so? Maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there, but who knows?
There were, like, 4 vote changes to Moydow, it was impossibpe for me to sway the lynch back to Maven by then.
Shish, if you want to defend yourself, I want a cold-hard list of your reads on every player in this game with proper reasoning and quotes. Show me you are playing this game and not coasting along as scum.
i can't even remember most of the people playing

  1. giraffelasergun(dom't think he even posted toDay so I guess it's someone to look into for inactives. Don't remember previous posts and can't do a reread right now so neutral but inactive)
  2. Shishœ(I hear Shishœ has an eight pack, that's he's shredded)
  3. Fire Emblemier(neutral, nothing eye-catching yet)
  4. Pokechu(town lean, hasn't been as obv town as usual but hasn't done any of his usual scum tells yet)
  5. Maven89(Scum, already explained this one)
  6. DtJ S2n(literally not bothering to read any of their posts and I don't care if it's a posting restriction)
  7. UtopianPoyzin(Town lean, has contributed a bunch and it all feels genuine.)
  8. BarDulL(neutral, he reads town to me but all the times that has happened he turned out to be scum)
  9. #HBC | Kary(town leam, same as Utopian despite the initial korean play)
  10. Dooplissity(stinky ghost nerd, don't like how he's tunneling on me. Read that as OMGUS if you want but it's clear Doop has no idea of how I play, not reading him as definitive scum just yet tho but definitely scum lean)
  11. Opossum(stinky marsupial, already explained it but basically: lack of activity, commitment and aggressiveness, all traits of Town!Opo)
  12. JTB(unlike Doop I like you, your posts actually feel genuine and anyone subbing for a Scum slot could use the exvuse of "catching up" to not have to post anything so I guess Town lean)
 

giraffelasergun

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Work's been a bit of a slog this week so I haven't been as active as I'd like to be this game, but I should be able to post more next week(taking it off for the holidays).

Also Hi JTB! Good to see old faces again.
I think JTB has a lot of good points about shish so I'm going to Vote:Shish. Seeing the posts together made me realize how much of his focus was on post restrictions being scummy and how to handle marisa that it seemed to be more important to him than scum hunting. I need to reread but I think Pokechu is in a bit of that same boat, but not to near of as much of an extent.

Kary vs Bard so far has been a mess for me trying to decide if it's a town vs town argument or a town vs scum argument. Kary has been very vocal and has made a lot of reads that I agree with the logic behind, and while the poison gambit and the faking of a post restriction give me a bit of a pause, but that might be because I'm more used to scum gambits than town gambits. But with how inactive the player list has been this game(myself included) it would be so so easy for a scum Kary to never post and let Doop/JTB/ntS JD be the only three posting and the more active players the better a town can play. Bard OTOH has been a bit of a null for me this game, none of his posts have been super town to me and none have been super scum. Some of their back and forth seems like it's focusing on things beyond the game, such as when Kary mentioned Bard is more likely to RVS vote her as scum than he is as town. I don't know their history, and quite frankly it doesn't matter, but I do think this is a discussion that will be better tackled tomorrow than today. I'd lynch bard before Kary though.

If someone has something they want me to specifically respond to please @ me. I will definitely be able around before deadline tonight.
 

#HBC | Kary

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anyone else trying to put a post together but keeps getting distracted listening to kpop? ok just me.

Kary, just because you voted for me first doesn’t make it an OMGUS. Did I call your vote on me an OMGUS on D1 after I voted for you? No. Get that old bag of tricks out of here.
I'm calling it an OMGUS because there seems to be no other good reason for you voting me. The closest I've seen is this:

What’s not to get? You’ve had this weird tunnel on me since RVS, lol. You thought I was scum from a single vote that was followed up by a joke post, and your head has not been in the right place; your first instinct was to try to get a wagon going on me instead of checking out any leads left by Moy. Why didn’t you gambit a result or a day-vig shot instead of a delayed poison shot? I mean, the result you got was empty.

The explanation is clear and implied. No offense intended.
Let me be clear; if I thought your reasons were clear, I wouldn't be asking in the first place.
Yes, I have been tunneling your slot, but tunneling does not equal scum.
I have said elsewhere that I do not think Moy's posts lead to anything in particular; they are at best a clue.
And the particulars of my gambit surely can't be that important. Are you trying to suggest I somehow faked the gambit? Does that even make sense?

How all of this adds up to a scumread, continues to elude me. And I only become more confused when I read things like this:

Moydow doesn't have much. Throws Kary support in #200 and #325. Also throws Shish support in #325. I don't think Shish and Kary are aligned based on my gut feel of this post. I'm leaning towards Kary being a much more likelier scum mate then anyone else.
Wait, you don't think Moydow has much? Wasn't that one of the things I am scummy for not investigating?
But there's more. From your deductions you think that, of all the players in this game, I am the most likely scum mate for Moydow?
And it's based on this:

I want to see more from Opossum and S2n, neither of them have done anything outside of RVS votes.

I'm okay with Kary for now, now that I don't need Google Translate for them any more, and I'm okay with leaving Marisa to deal with later on.

Does Maven still exist? For someone so eager to get the game going, it's funny how he's completely disappeared now that we're actually underway. :p
I'm not going for a Shish wagon right now. I felt more or less the same about Kary's Korean stuff; after Star Wars mafia I'm never again going to trust someone claiming any kind of posting restriction, or acting like they're under one. So I can understand why Shish felt the way he did about Kary early on, and why he would reconsider once they dropped the Korean.

I still think going for an inactive is the best move right now, I'm not seeing anything else at the moment. So I'll go with the people going for a compromise and
Vote: Maven
Wow, an absolutely damning "I'm okay with Kary for now". Your read on me, from what you have said, is paper thin at best.

Now I haven't gone into the details of why I dislike your slot, but you could at least riddle me this:
what made you decide to share a reads list literally 1 minute before deadline?
 

#HBC | Kary

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Mafia had no knowledge of the identity of the traitor. There's no way the change from Maven to Moydow wasn't scum-oriented, last minute shuffles almost never happen due to Town input, much less to someone who literally couldn't defend themselves and because of that, Moydow was an easy target in the Mafia's eyes to save one of their own.
If you believe this, which of the following is scum?

Moydow (Doop, Chu, GLG, Stu, Kary, Vult)
 
D

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If you believe this, which of the following is scum?

Moydow (Doop, Chu, GLG, Stu, Kary, Vult)
GLG has me more convinced with his latest post, he was convinced way too suddenly and because of that, I believe Doop is by association.

This post is gonna sound way too weird without context but considering the situation I am right now, I might as well share this piece of info lest it dies:

MAFIA CANNOT USE THEIR SHARED PM DURING DAY PHASE ANYMORE.
They could in D1 but they can't anymore.

GLG's post sounds like it came straight out of a Mafioso who can't discuss a mislynch target in private.
 

DtJ S2n

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This is simply incorrect. Because so many players are dragging their heels in this game, I feel obliged to push in a lot of directions and try and get things moving. You would need to go one step further and explain why, if I was scum, I would be trying to distract and confuse- when by comparison I could be doing nothing, or sheeping on the Shish waggon, for instance. But I really don't want to waste time on this.
?yalp fo esruoc ysae na si taht ecnis ,nogaw hsihs eht gnipeehs yltnerruc si mucs kniht uoy od

.eil a ti gnillac yb siht fo tuo ladepkcab dluow uoy kniht t'nod I .2 dna tols s'asiram detegrat ev'dluohs uoy kniht I .1 nwot era uoy fi dnA .renosiop a tcaf ni era uoy eveileb ot denilcni m'I elor nwo ym fo esuaceB ."noitacifiton a nettog ev'dluohs uoy" htiw tuo kcimmig eht trats dluow uoy nosaer yna ees t'nod I tub 'renosiop nwot' sa wonk dluow uoy elor nwo ruoy fo epocs tahw aedi oN .hbt nosiop htiw naipotu gnitegrat tuoba gniyl erew uoy tcaf eht no dlos neve ton m'I .yad siht fo flah tsrif eht rof atouq ytivitca ruoy srevoc tsael ta tI .redael nwot a sa pu fles gnittes ylbissop yalp rewop a si tib gninosiop ekaf eht ekil ffuts noitseuq rehto ruoy rof sA
 

Opossum

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Alright, I have sometime now, don't count on much else.
Deadline is in 7 hours, right?

Mafia had no knowledge of the identity of the traitor. There's no way the change from Maven to Moydow wasn't scum-oriented, last minute shuffles almost never happen due to Town input, much less to someone who literally couldn't defend themselves and because of that, Moydow was an easy target in the Mafia's eyes to save one of their own.

As for Opo, his is a different issue, I've already explained this but Town Opo is much more aggressive and generally tends to get on the bad side of the Town. This time he hasn't committed to anything while remained mostly quiet.

You keep saying Moy was pushing for Maven even though you also said she unvoted him, an unvote which you thought put me under suspicion when you mistakenly thought it was on me. If the evidence changes depending on who is put under suspicion, this is either unwilling bias or deliberately gunning for me.

Also, you speak as if we played enough games together for you to know my habits.
Regardless, I thought Marisa was an unique case before so I wasn't really sure how to proceed with it.

You're acting as if it's impossible that Moydow tried to distance herself from her Scumbuddies in case one of them flipped which is literally Mafia 101.

There were, like, 4 vote changes to Moydow, it was impossibpe for me to sway the lynch back to Maven by then.

i can't even remember most of the people playing

  1. giraffelasergun(dom't think he even posted toDay so I guess it's someone to look into for inactives. Don't remember previous posts and can't do a reread right now so neutral but inactive)
  2. Shishœ(I hear Shishœ has an eight pack, that's he's shredded)
  3. Fire Emblemier(neutral, nothing eye-catching yet)
  4. Pokechu(town lean, hasn't been as obv town as usual but hasn't done any of his usual scum tells yet)
  5. Maven89(Scum, already explained this one)
  6. DtJ S2n(literally not bothering to read any of their posts and I don't care if it's a posting restriction)
  7. UtopianPoyzin(Town lean, has contributed a bunch and it all feels genuine.)
  8. BarDulL(neutral, he reads town to me but all the times that has happened he turned out to be scum)
  9. #HBC | Kary(town leam, same as Utopian despite the initial korean play)
  10. Dooplissity(stinky ghost nerd, don't like how he's tunneling on me. Read that as OMGUS if you want but it's clear Doop has no idea of how I play, not reading him as definitive scum just yet tho but definitely scum lean)
  11. Opossum(stinky marsupial, already explained it but basically: lack of activity, commitment and aggressiveness, all traits of Town!Opo)
  12. JTB(unlike Doop I like you, your posts actually feel genuine and anyone subbing for a Scum slot could use the exvuse of "catching up" to not have to post anything so I guess Town lean)
Quieter playstyle this time around mostly has to do with holiday prep shenanigans, dude. You know how my usual fast-and-loose piss-off-the-whole-town-and-sometimes-get-results town playstyle lands me in hot water early on. If I don't have as much time to commit to the game (not to say I have no time, just less than usual), I needed to adjust my play as to not waste a day killing a townie (i.e., me) over silly stuff. :p
 
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If I live through toDay, I need recommendations on who to Vig kill btw
 

Pokechu

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yeahhhhh I'm not exactly seeing why Bard has his votes on kary and I think it's slimy how
Votecount

Shish (Doop, JTB, GLG)
Maven (Shish)
Bard (Fire, Kary)
Kary (:salt:, Bard, Stu)
two of the three votes on her, making her tied with shish now, are from bard. thought this was a democracy? LOL
 

Pokechu

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I'm liking JTB. miss marisa tho XOXO gone but never forgotten

I'm not sure what post Shish is referring to when he said this?
GLG's post sounds like it came straight out of a Mafioso who can't discuss a mislynch target in private.
I liked giraffe's 679, gives his overview of Kary and Bard, which one he favors, + a little meta discussion in there
 

#HBC | Kary

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Deadline is in just under 5 hours,

and sadly several persons Maven89 Maven89 Fire Emblemier Fire Emblemier etc. are yet to post anything of real merit.
Since it's later than before, there's no ways I can stay awake until then. I intend to leave my vote on Bardull for the time being but I am fully prepared to endorse a Shish lynch. Even if he doesn't turn up scum, I think that he needs to go at this point. Again, it's already 11pm for me, so basically if you want anything more out of me today, you better make it quick.
 

Pokechu

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I'm not sure if I buy Shish's claim, if I'm being honest. Preventing the mafioso from using their PM chat is something I don't believe because that's a constant in almost every game of mafia and has been allowed in all of the 20+ games I've played in. Why cut out something so fundamental? And this role also being a vig? They don't mesh very well. But then again we had a bodyguard tracker so who am I to judge :laugh:

Although I also don't see anything massively wrong with the slot. I can see how he hasn't had a huge focus on scumhunting as some have said, but many others haven't either *raises hand* LOL will look through his posts

I still stand by my earlier comment that the lynch should not be Kary toDay. I really like her content, she's a strong town read for me. I'll look at her posts and Bard's and try to explain why
 

Opossum

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If I live through toDay, I need recommendations on who to Vig kill btw
GLG has me more convinced with his latest post, he was convinced way too suddenly and because of that, I believe Doop is by association.

This post is gonna sound way too weird without context but considering the situation I am right now, I might as well share this piece of info lest it dies:

MAFIA CANNOT USE THEIR SHARED PM DURING DAY PHASE ANYMORE.
They could in D1 but they can't anymore.

GLG's post sounds like it came straight out of a Mafioso who can't discuss a mislynch target in private.
Gonna be real with you here, you first share a random bit of information that can't even feasibly be proven (the Mafia isn't gonna come out and confirm they can't talk) and then threaten a vigilante kill, which could mean any alignment. It just seems fishy to me.

Vote: Shish
 

Pokechu

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Deadline is in just under 5 hours,

and sadly several persons Maven89 Maven89 Fire Emblemier Fire Emblemier etc. are yet to post anything of real merit.
Since it's later than before, there's no ways I can stay awake until then. I intend to leave my vote on Bardull for the time being but I am fully prepared to endorse a Shish lynch. Even if he doesn't turn up scum, I think that he needs to go at this point. Again, it's already 11pm for me, so basically if you want anything more out of me today, you better make it quick.
Just to be sure

Is the bolded referring to Shish or Bard? :ultpit:I never learnt how to reaaaaaaad
 

Pokechu

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Throws Kary support in #200
How is this support for Kary?
I'm not going for a Shish wagon right now. I felt more or less the same about Kary's Korean stuff; after Star Wars mafia I'm never again going to trust someone claiming any kind of posting restriction, or acting like they're under one. So I can understand why Shish felt the way he did about Kary early on, and why he would reconsider once they dropped the Korean.

I still think going for an inactive is the best move right now, I'm not seeing anything else at the moment. So I'll go with the people going for a compromise and
Vote: Maven
 

Pokechu

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How is this support for Kary?
EBWOP I think the post I quoted was Moy's 325

A problem I have with Barney is how I feel he's constituting things to be something different than they actually are. Such as trying to label Moy's post as support for Kary when she only says "Yeah I agree her Korean put me off too", or trying to state I was "quick to join Marisa's defense" when I had said maybe one thing about Marisa and it was not in anyway defending her (and then he said I was aggressively overextending). When Utopian said he had high confidence Nabe wouldn't make a puppet a scum, Barney construed it as "stating that Nabe would never make a puppet scum".

Just changing and exaggerating these posts, I feel like it misrepresents them and it's something he's done a few times that's putting me off. I'm not sure if I'm just making a big deal out of nothing, but I don't think it's being honest about what those posts are and I see it as stretching them just to showcase a point he wants to make.
 
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If my flip is what is needed for anyone to believe this info, then so be it. I was hoping I could survive one more Night to disable something else the Mafia had or to prove my role but alas.

I'm Ryougi Shiki, I can perceive the Death of anything every Night but I don't know if I can actually affect it until the end of it. If I can affect them, I can then cut their lines whenever I want and the more specific I am, the better the chances of succession.
Last Night, I Perceived "the ability of the Mafia faction to communicate in a private conversation during the Day phase" and as soon as Day started and I received my results, I cut the line "during the Day phase".
 

BarDulL

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I’ve been at work so haven’t had time to respond, but look, if y’all don’t want a piece of Kary, I’m not gonna arm up to put a stop to the Kary monster for now.

Haven’t read the rest of the thread yet (brief skim at best), only really read the most recent few posts.

Pokechu Pokechu I might have misread the context due to ISO; the initial phrasing makes it sound like Moy supports not going for Kary, but then they elaborate on it further to explain why they don’t support the Shish wagon. I confess there’s skimming involved, but I don’t think I’d fake a scum read while citing posts in particular. Come on, dude.

Anyway, still at the office but on my way out the door for the most part. I’m going to a Smush tournament. Do what y’all want.

If my flip is what is needed for anyone to believe this info, then so be it. I was hoping I could survive one more Night to disable something else the Mafia had or to prove my role but alas.

I'm Ryougi Shiki, I can perceive the Death of anything every Night but I don't know if I can actually affect it until the end of it. If I can affect them, I can then cut their lines whenever I want and the more specific I am, the better the chances of succession.
Last Night, I Perceived "the ability of the Mafia faction to communicate in a private conversation during the Day phase" and as soon as Day started and I received my results, I cut the line "during the Day phase".
What in the name of sweet jesus is this?
 

#HBC | Kary

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((did your post somehow get messed up stu? It reads a bit weird))

As for your other question stuff like the fake poisoning bit is a power play possibly setting self up as a town leader. It at least covers your activity quota for the first half of this day. I'm not even sold on the fact you were lying about targeting utopian with poison tbh. No idea what scope of your own role you would know as 'town poisoner' but I don't see any reason you would start the gimmick out with "you should've gotten a notification". Because of my own role I'm inclined to believe you are in fact a poisoner. And if you are town 1. I think you should've targeted marisa's slot and 2. I don't think you would backpedal out of this by calling it a lie.

do you think scum is currently sheeping the shish wagon, since that is an easy course of play?
I didn't start the gambit with "you should have", I started it with "I guess you didn't", because I was trying to get the idea of notifications out the way and present the scenario on my own terms.

people reading things into my gambit is well and good, but you have to understand that internet search results for "kpop dayvig" are not very plentiful.

Do I think scum is sheeping the Shish waggon? I don't know. If he's town, then a scum Kary could be pushing that a lot more than I am doing, right?

Again, you're wasting your time in pushing me.
 

BarDulL

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I’ll be honest though.

I would love to see Kary get lynched. We should lynch Kary. It would be the best Christmas present a townie could ask for. :awesome:

Or lynch Shish I guess. Kinda confused about his role. Seems like a given that scum can talk during the day phase.

Or maybe we’re all wrong and should look elsewhere?

I guess I’ll take the Shish flip so that people don’t think I’m trying to maneuver people off his wagon.

Decisions, decisions.
 

#HBC | Kary

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@Shishœ
so let me get this straight, you don't target a player, you just submit the name of something that you want to affect?
And Night 1 you chose "the ability of mafia to communicate during the Day" ?

what made you choose that?
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,206
Location
Austin, Texas
Alright alright, JOKES aside...to be clear with my tone, I am joking about you being a monster or a townie’s dream lynch...

Stu (s2n, it has been so long that I may have forgotten his name) asked me to post a feelers list on D1. I didn’t have a whole lot of time and just got home from work. So, I put my barebones list in as soon as I could. There ya go.
 

JTB

Live for the applause
Premium
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
6,512
Do you think shish is too easy of a lynch for scum to jump on?
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,206
Location
Austin, Texas
Posting from mobile sucks. Ruined that last post, but essentially I was saying that yes, it’s possible I could cite bad evidence as scum on accident too, so it’s null. Pokechu Pokechu

I mean, if you think I’m Town, and no one else is defending Shish, then probably.

Shish got lynched for similar reasons in the last game he was in if I remember correctly, which is why I’m hesitant to vote for him.
 
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