Update is out! Lets figure out what got nerfed/buffed

[inconspikuous]

Sample of the Jump Cancel K.O punch on last stock of Mewtwo being combo'd into

Also Mewtwos Damage went from 11% to 20% from dash attack and Went to 57% after K.O so im guessing K.O is 37%?

terrible first stock. lol. j/k. i see those pivot fsmashes though. looking sicc. at the end there, if he teched, would the KO punch whiff?

 

[sirchadakiss18]

terrible first stock. lol. j/k. i see those pivot fsmashes though. looking sicc. at the end there, if he teched, would the KO punch whiff?

ololol yeah I second guess myself 1st stock, but Yeah if he teched it wouldve whiffed, but the good thing is that Dash Attack to JCKOP can connect in time if performed frame perfect, consider a few things though like Opponents char weight, Hitstun, percent and your distance from opponent while theyre still Airborne. Practice is all though honestly.

 

[PHYTO-1]

Sample of the Jump Cancel K.O punch on last stock of Mewtwo being combo'd into

Also Mewtwos Damage went from 11% to 20% from dash attack and Went to 57% after K.O so im guessing K.O is 37%?

irl its 37% but in training its 35%. fresh/stale BS etc

daym mew2 is lightweight. dying from upb <100%

 

[anakette]

playing around with the jump canceled KO punch (im going to call it JCKOP cuz that takes too long to type) on fg and i _really_ think we shouldn't advertise it too much. it's too amazing -- they might patch it out.

Can someone explain to me the exact input order to do the jump canceled KO punch? Never messed with jump canceling before, would be much appreciated.

 

[inconspikuous]

Can someone explain to me the exact input order to do the jump canceled KO punch? Never messed with jump canceling before, would be much appreciated.

EDIT: i answered you. check your messages. welcome to smashboards!

 

[Bleezyy]

How do you jump cancel?

 

[inconspikuous]

lol. jump canceling isn't a secret tech... i'm just so paranoid now.

anyway to jump cancel a shield or dash, you press jump+any input (e.g. any input = up+b, neutral b, uptilt etc.). you shouldn't leave the ground so the jump and the input have to be at almost the same time.

 

[anakette]

Right on, thanks!

 

[Bleezyy]

Thanks a lot I think I can do it. Going to try it out later

 

[Apollyon]

This I have to know now, Does anyone have a confimed button combination to get this tech? I've been in the lab trying to figure it out, I think I am missing an input.

I can tell you one thing though, Gonna be playing Little Mac a lot more now that this has come out.

 

[Zodiacx10]

This I have to know now, Does anyone have a confimed button combination to get this tech? I've been in the lab trying to figure it out, I think I am missing an input.

I can tell you one thing though, Gonna be playing Little Mac a lot more now that this has come out.

im having trouble hitting jump and the special button fast enough too. should i set like my R or Z button to jump or something?

 

[inconspikuous]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewt...ted-wed-11pm-pst.398902/page-28#post-19005126

we're not going to be able to keep it a secret. lol. let's enjoy it while it lasts, because it's going to get patched at this rate. RIP JCKOP July 2015.

 

[sirchadakiss18]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewt...ted-wed-11pm-pst.398902/page-28#post-19005126

we're not going to be able to keep it a secret. lol. let's enjoy it while it lasts, because it's going to get patched at this rate. RIP JCKOP July 2015.

we have to tell people to keep this under tabs, for real, this is too Good of a thing, ugh smh

 

[Doruge]

KO Punch now kills everyone 2% earlier
Dsmash sends opponents at a higher angle
Dash attack travels less distance

Following moves have less knockback - with kill %s on Bowser while 150% rage active
Full FSmash 45% (from 40%)
Full SL 41% (from 37%)
Fsmash 80% (from 75%)
UFsmash 85% (from 80%)

Following moves have more knockback - with kill %s on Bowser while 150% rage active
Rising Smash 38% (from 42%)
KO Punch 14% (from 16%) [well KOP in general kills 2% earlier now]
Full Stun Lunge 78% (from 80%)

Unconfirmed:
Jolt Haymaker hitbox comes out quicker/increased KB?
I want to say that nair has better trapping qualities but I figure its now the new CPU AI not being godlike

None of these are real according to the official patch thread

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-thread-updated-wed-11pm-pst.398902/

 

[Rignite]

After watching it in action, seriously, Gazelle Punch is perfect. That was beautiful.

Melting people early like that gets me excited.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

This is probably the noobiest question ever but...how do you jump cancel? And is this the only confirmed buff. I know there are the ones in the original post, but they haven't been acknowledged by the official patch thread

 

[sirchadakiss18]

frame data hasn't changed though? it'd be nice if we could act quicker after committing.

even if the dash attack doesn't go as far, i think the dash attack>dash attack string still works.

It reduced Knock back and recovery as well cause I can Actually Follow up with a well timed Nair -> Footstool to dair reset, so sexy omfg

 

[sirchadakiss18]

It reduced Knock back and recovery as well cause I can Actually Follow up with a well time fair or Upangled Fsmash (EDIT: In training mode)

 

[inconspikuous]

It reduced Knock back and recovery as well cause I can Actually Follow up with a well timed Nair -> Footstool to dair reset, so sexy omfg

^these sound incredible. are they true combos or frame trap strings like the dash attack>dash attack? either way, if those are realistic follow ups, mac may have some deadly new tech man. good work, yo.

and to everyone asking about the jump canceling, i already posted how to do it a few posts above.

 

[PHYTO-1]

None of these are real according to the official patch thread

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-thread-updated-wed-11pm-pst.398902/

just test them yourself and let me know. i tested the moves like a few weeks ago. maybe FD's blastzone were increased and i'm here with my **** out pissing in the wind with my mouth wide open.

 

[PHYTO-1]

^these sound incredible. are they true combos or frame trap strings like the dash attack>dash attack? either way, if those are realistic follow ups, mac may have some deadly new tech man. good work, yo.

and to everyone asking about the jump canceling, i already posted how to do it a few posts above.

well da>da is actually a true combo on certain chars depending on how you hit them.

this reminds me

here's a small list of true combos that little mac can do.

most of these were tested on Diddy kong @0%

Utilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. upb
4. ftilt

dtilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. ftilt
4. upb
5. grab
6. utilt (if he DIs above)
7. sideb

dash attack>

1. sideb
2. dash attack
3. upb
4. rollboost grab

down throw >

1. utilt (if he DIs above)

theres probably some jab 3 combos at higher percents (is jab 3 even a true combo in itself? 1 and 2 and rapid count but i cant get jab 3 to count). i was gonna do frame traps, but theres the update so maybe it'll change. at least true combos are easy to find in training mode.

going to redo it. if you want me to do it with any other char besides diddy, just ask me. i'll do it , its not hard.

 

[PHYTO-1]

^these sound incredible. are they true combos or frame trap strings like the dash attack>dash attack? either way, if those are realistic follow ups, mac may have some deadly new tech man. good work, yo.

and to everyone asking about the jump canceling, i already posted how to do it a few posts above.

well da>da is actually a true combo on certain chars depending on how you hit them.

this reminds me

here's a small list of true combos that little mac can do.

most of these were tested on Diddy kong @0%

Utilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. upb
4. ftilt

dtilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. ftilt
4. upb
5. grab
6. utilt (if he DIs above)
7. sideb

dash attack>

1. sideb
2. dash attack
3. upb
4. rollboost grab

down throw >

1. utilt (if he DIs above)

theres probably some jab 3 combos at higher percents (is jab 3 even a true combo in itself? 1 and 2 and rapid count but i cant get jab 3 to count). i was gonna do frame traps, but theres the update so maybe it'll change. at least true combos are easy to find in training mode.

going to redo it. with diddy. if you want me to do this with another char lmk hmu k

 

[inconspikuous]

not sure if it was a true combo before, but dash attack>

well da>da is actually a true combo on certain chars depending on how you hit them.

this reminds me

going to redo it. with diddy. if you want me to do this with another char lmk hmu k

i think in the new metagame ,, and (with customs on) are going to become a lot more popular now that diddy's nerfed. not saying that you have to test with all of them, just an observation.

not sure if these were true combos before (tested with on smashville, not sure if CPU DI's properly in training now):

1. from like 0-15% da>jolt haymaker is a true combo. not a very good follow up imo, as you could easily SD, but it is an option.
2. at around 100-110%, dtilt>JC upsmash is a true combo that kills.

as for other changes, usually i try to mash up+b to get out of rapid jabs. post-patch, i'm finding that when i'm caught in a rapid jab (easiest to test against other macs), up+b will escape still, but it consistently doesn't drag the opponent into all the hits like before, meaning i will catch a big punish on landing. is anyone else finding that the up+b is a little different?

 

[inconspikuous]

[EDIT: FALSE ALARM. it does step forward, but in-game it rarely connects after the release.]

WOW. here's another potentially big change that came with the step forward of the KO punch...

i was reading through our 'true combo' thread and i came across @ PHYTO-1 's reply saying that after a pummel grab release mac stands in place doing the punch:
http://smashboards.com/threads/little-mac-combo-thread.384215/#post-18716480

well guess what... now HE ALWAYS STEPS FORWARD. so i was like... does it really.... i mean.... !!!

TEST IT YOURSELF. pummel grab release>KO punch. i doubt it's a true combo, but if the opponent does anything besides spotdodge or roll away (if someone can test escape options with a friend it'd be really helpful), it's lights out.

i just tried it with LUIGI and it connected. and sonic. sorry i'm a little excited. mac nation, kid. get familiar.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Let me go ahead and set this straight for people:

Mac appears to have two easily-observable changes to his kit in the new patch.

One: As everyone has posted, is that the KO Punch has no situation in which using it after a specific action prevents the lunge. This mostly makes KO Punch out-of-shield noticeably better; a lot of situations in which you'd unshield and Dash Attack to punish can be caught by KO Punch instead. It's a big buff on paper, but it likely won't change the way people approach Mac when he has a KO Punch, so I don't expect it to make too much of a difference. Still, yay!

Two: Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker (Forward-B) was given a knockback increase:

https://youtu.be/Sf4j5auPau0?t=4m54s

What Chibo has listed as a slight angle change is due to the fact that Jolt Haymaker has the Sakurai angle, which sends people at a low angle at lower knockback values (~20 degrees) and sends people at higher knockback values the more knockback is incurred (~40 degrees at high percents). Testing suggests that they didn't change it to a static angle, so it's most certainly some kind of knockback increase.

If any Rage-related values have changed, that's universal and not Mac-specific.

 

[inconspikuous]

Let me go ahead and set this straight for people:

Mac appears to have two easily-observable changes to his kit in the new patch.

One: As everyone has posted, is that the KO Punch has no situation in which using it after a specific action prevents the lunge. This mostly makes KO Punch out-of-shield noticeably better; a lot of situations in which you'd unshield and Dash Attack to punish can be caught by KO Punch instead. It's a big buff on paper, but it likely won't change the way people approach Mac when he has a KO Punch, so I don't expect it to make too much of a difference. Still, yay!

Two: Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker (Forward-B) was given a knockback increase:

https://youtu.be/Sf4j5auPau0?t=4m54s

What Chibo has listed as a slight angle change is due to the fact that Jolt Haymaker has the Sakurai angle, which sends people at a low angle at lower knockback values (~20 degrees) and sends people at higher knockback values the more knockback is incurred (~40 degrees at high percents). Testing suggests that they didn't change it to a static angle, so it's most certainly some kind of knockback increase.

If any Rage-related values have changed, that's universal and not Mac-specific.

thanks @ TheReflexWonder . good to know our 'feelings' about jolt haymaker weren't fake.

 

[inconspikuous]

WOW. here's another potentially big change that came with the step forward of the KO punch...

i was reading through our 'true combo' thread and i came across @ PHYTO-1 's reply saying that after a pummel grab release mac stands in place doing the punch:
http://smashboards.com/threads/little-mac-combo-thread.384215/#post-18716480

well guess what... now HE ALWAYS STEPS FORWARD. so i was like... does it really.... i mean.... !!!

TEST IT YOURSELF. pummel grab release>KO punch. i doubt it's a true combo, but if the opponent does anything besides spotdodge or roll away (if someone can test escape options with a friend it'd be really helpful), it's lights out.

i just tried it with LUIGI and it connected. and sonic. sorry i'm a little excited. mac nation, kid. get familiar.

semi-false alarm. sorry. been testing on fg and it doesn't really connect after pummel release.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

KO Punch hits on Frame 9 and has armor on Frame 8. If they stick out anything, it will likely beat a KO Punch.

The important thing to note is that you can jump out of any point in your dash, so you can trade a jumpsquat animation's worth of time (~5 frames) for the ability to start a KO Punch directly out of an initial dash. This should be great against roll reads and might have good synergy with instant Dash Attack or Forward-B.

 

[NerdThomas3]

From what a friend of mine told me:
F-Tilt does 12% instead of 10%
Jolt Haymaker does 14% intead of 12%
KO Punch does 35% instead of 30%
2nd Jump goes a little bit higher

I plan to test this out myself, but knowing him it's most likely correct.

Second jump is a little higher now.

 

[inconspikuous]

Second jump is a little higher now.

do you have video? mac still can't reach the duck hunt tree without using his up+b.

 

[NerdThomas3]

do you have video? mac still can't reach the duck hunt tree without using his up+b.

I don't have a way to show you, unfortunately... All I can say is find a way to see Mac in 1.0.5 and compare it to 1.0.6.

 

[PHYTO-1]

here's a small list of true combos that little mac can do.

most of these were tested on Diddy kong @0%

Utilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. upb
4. ftilt

dtilt >

1. jab
2. dtilt
3. ftilt
4. upb
5. grab
6. utilt (if he DIs above)
7. sideb

dash attack>

1. sideb
2. dash attack
3. upb
4. rollboost grab

down throw >

1. utilt (if he DIs above)

.

all of these are still true except:

dtilt > sideb.

in fact jolt haymaker no longer connects and flies right over diddy.
gonna go ahead and slide the jolthaymaker into the confirmed section


interesting to note that they didnt patch out the jigglypuff grab release shenanigans

 

[inconspikuous]

what jiggly grab release shenanigans?

 

[Bolshoi]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or if it's even so, but it seems like the windbox on a canceled KO punch doesn't exist.

Like, when someone grabs or counters your KO punch and they used to go flying across the ground, I don't think that happens anymore.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Can someone do a side-by-side test of Little Mac's Straight Lunge? According to my notes, minimum charge Straight Lunge had a frame total of 87 pre-patch; 39 frames minimum charge time, 4 frame start-up when you release charge, 44 frames of endlag. Now I'm counting a frame total of 83; 35 frames minimum charge time, 4 frame start-up when you release charge, 44 frames of endlag.

I can't tell if that's because I messed up when originally frame counting or if that was an actual change, and the 3DS 1.04 frame data doesn't list the charge time on straight lunge, just the start-up time on release (which matches the info I have). I'd check myself but I lost the pre-patch Little Mac footage I used for frame counting before, and don't have two different versions of the game on me.

EDIT: Never mind. It was an error on my part; found part of the footage I took. Minimum charge time was always 35 frames. x2

 

[PHYTO-1]

what jiggly grab release shenanigans?

you can just grab release her into upb. guaranteed
you can also grab release her into grounding blow (only if they dont react in time, they got like a couple frames to escape)

I don't know if it's been mentioned or if it's even so, but it seems like the windbox on a canceled KO punch doesn't exist.

Like, when someone grabs or counters your KO punch and they used to go flying across the ground, I don't think that happens anymore.

still happens to me once in a while.


Because KOP always lunges, we can now pull off some fun **** like pseudo-reverse KOP. basically just use a backwards item throw in midair to turn yourself around then KOP. ****s good on battlefield.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

semi-false alarm. sorry. been testing on fg and it doesn't really connect after pummel release.

Hey, you're that mac I ditto'd awhile back on FG aha.

Has anyone checked if it takes longer to release straight lunge? It feels like it, but I have no way of testing it,

 

[PHYTO-1]

Hey, you're that mac I ditto'd awhile back on FG aha.

Has anyone checked if it takes longer to release straight lunge? It feels like it, but I have no way of testing it,

look up clash tournaments on youtube. theyre doing a bunch of side by side comparisons. straight lunge un/fully charged appears the same.

though mind you the testing is not very well done.

 

[inconspikuous]

Hey, you're that mac I ditto'd awhile back on FG aha.

did i scrub it up? i can't remember. lol. i hate mac dittos.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

did i scrub it up? i can't remember. lol. i hate mac dittos.

You didn't scrub it up, but I didn't really drop many games. You messaged me on miiverse a few times, and asked me for tips on the sheik match up I believe.

Hmmmm. there don't appear to have been many mac changes. I was really hoping for more height on his initial jump. would have really helped with campers on smashville and battlefield.