Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[DelugeFGC]

As long as there's a generally decent balance to individual tiers (however those tiers may look) and the character at the top of that tier isn't leagues and miles beyond the character at the bottom of it (or worse, the character immediately one place behind in the tier) it's probably for the best that the game isn't totally balanced. I myself prefer having mid and low tier characters, they cause upsets, generate a lot of hype in the right hands and there's just nothing better than 3-stocking that one loudmouth you met at a local in a money match using Game & Watch.

The right amount of imbalance does a lot for the game, I wouldn't want to imagine a Smash game where every character was lumped into one or maybe two tiers and there was very little difference between viability of characters in those tiers as you went up the tier. Every fighting game has amazing characters and crap ones, imo it only really becomes a problem when a character is unbelievably busted beyond belief like Sm4sh Bayo or Brawl MK. It's also not super great when a character feels bad for really stupid reasons, but all-in-all I'm happy with the overall balance of the game in a general sense. I have a few things here and there I want done, yes, but nothing is egregious.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Same reason why Rosalina and Mewtwo are super light: Balancing.

My friend once described Rosalina, since she's tall but lightweight, as having a "low density."

Would Rosalina float in water?

Ironically, Zero Suit Samus runs quite fast for a woman in heels.

Hey, she's basically a Spartan from halo except five times stronger. She can run as fast as she wants.

There needs to be more pants wearing females, no more dresses.

How many, like 5?

Non dresses: (nana)
I think it's fine, but you do raise a good point.

 

[osby]

My friend once described Rosalina, since she's tall but lightweight, as having a "low density."

Would Rosalina float in water?

She can float even in the air.

How many, like 5?

Non dresses: (nana)
I think it's fine, but you do raise a good point.

You forgot , Pokemon (who don't wear neither), and but your point stands. Dresses are hardly that common.

...unless you count exclusively female characters, then yeah, it's more frequent.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Female Robin, Female Corrin, the female Inkling skins, Isabelle, Lucina, the female Pokemon Trainer skins, the female Villager skins, the female Wii Fit skins, Zero Suit Samus, Samus, Dark Samus, Bayonetta, Nana, BJ's Wendy Skin, various female Mii variants, Jigglypuff, possibly Pichu / Pikachu and Sheik are all female characters / skins that don't wear a dress. Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, Zelda, Palutena and some of the Mii variants (again) would be the ones that do.

In terms of diversity, if anything needs more representation it would be dress-wearing females if we're just talking about being equal for the sake of it. In reality, though, I think that situation is fine where it stands.. the vast majority of females in the game aren't clad in a dress.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That is very true. The small roster makes Smash 64 very balanced.

Doesn't necessarily mean that's for the best though. Balance doesn't necessarily make a game fun; in fact, it's meaningless by itself. People prefer to have a diversity of playstyles to choose from over creating a 5:5 fighting game utopia that sacrifices individuality.
Buffing and nerfing is actually done with the purpose of making a game more enjoyable rather than balanced.

And yes, we'll have to accept that the large roster will warrant some imbalances, but at least we don't have a Brawl Meta Knight or Smash 4 Bayo situation in our hands (at least not yet). Thankfully, we still have several patches ahead of us. Personally, buffing the weak characters and doing as little nerfs as possible would be the way to go.

At the same time though, you do have to feel concerned that we might end up with a Brawl Ganondorf situation. Obviously, Brawl Ganondorf is the worst fighter ever in the series (arguably worse than even Melee Bowser), and it almost sounds like a lot of heavyweights in Ultimate are close to that level of atrocity.

I know that Smash 3DS / Wii U has bad characters itself, but apparently none of them are even close to being Brawl Ganondorf terrible (as far as I know anyway).

 

[DelugeFGC]

Heavy characters have never really enjoyed a good place in any Smash game, I feel lucky to at least have a few mid-tier ones in Ultimate that you can win with if you play well and know the character.. or at least have a chance at winning. Melee Bowser and Brawl Ganon just felt like taking the L before the match even started, those are only characters you picked as a joke or to be disrespectful as hell.

Charizard is SO bad in Ultimate.. like, really REALLY bad.. I think he fits the 'Brawl Ganon / Melee Bowser' bill for terrible heavy perfectly right now. At least Melee Bowser had Up B out of shield to take money from scrubs with maximum disrespect, Charizard just feels.. wrong.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Heavy characters have never really enjoyed a good place in any Smash game, I feel lucky to at least have a few mid-tier ones in Ultimate that you can win with if you play well and know the character.. or at least have a chance at winning. Melee Bowser and Brawl Ganon just felt like taking the L before the match even started, those are only characters you picked as a joke or to be disrespectful as hell.

Charizard is SO bad in Ultimate.. like, really REALLY bad.. I think he fits the 'Brawl Ganon / Melee Bowser' bill for terrible heavy perfectly right now. At least Melee Bowser had Up B out of shield to take money from scrubs with maximum disrespect, Charizard just feels.. wrong.

Bowser does have to be fortunate that he has come a long way since the dark days of Melee and Brawl. While he's not top tier material by any means, he's definitely among the best super-heavyweights in Smash 3DS / Wii U. Though I do feel concerned that his increased falling speed in Ultimate is a detriment to his already mediocre recovery; air speed is better, but making him fall faster feels unwarranted.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Bowser does have to be fortunate that he has come a long way since the dark days of Melee and Brawl. While he's not top tier material by any means, he's definitely among the best super-heavyweights in Smash 3DS / Wii U. Though I do feel concerned that his increased falling speed in Ultimate is a detriment to his already mediocre recovery; air speed is better, but making him fall faster feels unwarranted.

Combined with the startup on his aerials, it makes the windows for short hop attacks pretty tight and overall leads to him getting beaten around the stage by long strings a lot easier for slower characters with poor range that otherwise wouldn't be able to do this. Bowser is better than he's ever been for sure, but I still don't see him as the best heavy. Dedede just barely edges him out, DK is leagues better and Ganon is by far the best of them. That said, Bowser is still no KRool or Charizard, so he's not in a horrible place. Could use some buffs either way.

Bowser got a boost out of the defensive meta of 4 I think, but Ult is definitely an offense meta and a character like Bowser just sort of naturally struggles within that. I still think he's better in Ult than 4, but the meta doesn't favor him nearly as much.. I think all his pros are strictly based on the character itself now, not how the general meta tends to go.

 

[Arthur97]

My friend once described Rosalina, since she's tall but lightweight, as having a "low density."

Would Rosalina float in water?

Most people can float in water.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Combined with the startup on his aerials, it makes the windows for short hop attacks pretty tight and overall leads to him getting beaten around the stage by long strings a lot easier for slower characters with poor range that otherwise wouldn't be able to do this. Bowser is better than he's ever been for sure, but I still don't see him as the best heavy. Dedede just barely edges him out, DK is leagues better and Ganon is by far the best of them. That said, Bowser is still no KRool or Charizard, so he's not in a horrible place. Could use some buffs either way.

Bowser got a boost out of the defensive meta of 4 I think, but Ult is definitely an offense meta and a character like Bowser just sort of naturally struggles within that. I still think he's better in Ult than 4, but the meta doesn't favor him nearly as much.. I think all his pros are strictly based on the character itself now, not how the general meta tends to go.

This dilemma does make you wonder if Bowser would fare better if his falling speed stayed at a below average level. Falling slower does hurt his vertical longevity, but it's a drawback that you pretty much have to take if you want a better overall recovery.

On the topic of Charizard, what I find funny about Charizard's dilemma is that some people consider it to be among the worst fighters in Ultimate, and yet it's not even a slowpoke. But obviously, you need a viable moveset, and sadly for Charizard, it lost Rock Smash after losing its standalone status.

Anyway, it does seem like a lot of fighters could use improvements in one way or another. For one example, Ganondorf could afford to have better air speed to help him with his poor recovery. Being a faster runner would be nice too, since Ganondorf is definitely not like his Twilight Princess counterpart.

As for Incineroar, does it really have to be a slower walker than Melee Bowser? While I do see it as being among the slowest fighters (weakest mobility average when compared to everyone else), it could afford to be a bit faster on the ground (faster overall than Brawl Ganondorf anyway).

 

[Arthur97]

Would Twilight Princess Ganondorf be slower? We at least see him fight on the ground. OoT Ganondorf is flying for most of his fight.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Edit

This dilemma does make you wonder if Bowser would fare better if his falling speed stayed at a below average level. Falling slower does hurt his vertical longevity, but it's a drawback that you pretty much have to take if you want a better overall recovery.

On the topic of Charizard, what I find funny about Charizard's dilemma is that some people consider it to be among the worst fighters in Ultimate, and yet it's not even a slowpoke. But obviously, you need a viable moveset, and sadly for Charizard, it lost Rock Smash after losing its standalone status.

Anyway, it does seem like a lot of fighters could use improvements in one way or another. For one example, Ganondorf could afford to have better air speed to help him with his poor recovery. Being a faster runner would be nice too, since Ganondorf is definitely not like his Twilight Princess counterpart.

As for Incineroar, does it really have to be a slower walker than Melee Bowser? While I do see it as being among the slowest fighters (weakest mobility average when compared to everyone else), it could afford to be a bit faster on the ground (faster overall than Brawl Ganondorf anyway).

Ganon I feel is, likely fine where he is. I will always miss the ability for things such as Ganon on Ice to be possible, but I feel Ultimate Ganon could start to become a bit of a problem if you gave him any real amount of speed. He can already land kills off of one punish string of 3-4 hits pretty consistently as-is, give him more mobility and he could become a rather busted character. I feel buffs for him could be better applied in other places. He's too heavy, too powerful and just lives WAY too long to justify making faster imo.. his problems lie elsewhere.

Charizard is one of the worst characters in the entire game and THE worst heavy, there's just no reason at all for him to be as bad as he is. It's terrifying to want to use Squirtle, but you died as Squirtle and now you've popped back up as Ivy. You can now either stick it out with Ivy (best idea by MILES) and either wait for / create an opening to Down B twice for Squirtle again, OR immediately Down B out of respawn and benefit from the window you need to get back to Squirtle being smaller.. but now you're stuck as Charizard who is basically one big walking free combo for the opponent if they have even an OUNCE of follow up ability. Losing Rock Smash did hurt, but it's far from the only problem with him. Man I miss PM 'Zard.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ganon I feel is, likely fine where he is. I will always miss the ability for things such as Ganon on Ice to be possible, but I feel Ultimate Ganon could start to become a bit of a problem if you gave him any real amount of speed. He can already land kills off of one punish string of 3-4 hits pretty consistently as-is, give him more mobility and he could become a rather busted character. I feel buffs for him could be better applied in other places. He's too heavy, too powerful and just lives WAY too long to justify making faster imo.. his problems lie elsewhere.

I guess my idea was to have Ganondorf's running speed be able to keep up with Marth's walking speed. He would still have a bad mobility average when compared to most of the other fighters though.

Charizard is one of the worst characters in the entire game and THE worst heavy, there's just no reason at all for him to be as bad as he is. It's terrifying to want to use Squirtle, but you died as Squirtle and now you've popped back up as Ivy. You can now either stick it out with Ivy (best idea by MILES) and either wait for / create an opening to Down B twice for Squirtle again, OR immediately Down B out of respawn and benefit from the window you need to get back to Squirtle being smaller.. but now you're stuck as Charizard who is basically one big walking free combo for the opponent if they have even an OUNCE of follow up ability. Losing Rock Smash did hurt, but it's far from the only problem with him. Man I miss PM 'Zard.

Now that I think about it, how different is Charizard's moveset in Ultimate when compared to Smash Wii U? I know that Charizard wasn't that great in Smash Wii U, but it wasn't bottom 5 bad.

I don't have the game yet, so I can't answer that question myself.

 

[Xelrog]

I did prefer the Twilight Princess look for Ganon and I know I'm in the minority there.

I don't know what the popular opinion on that is. I like both Dorfs, but I might lean just slightly towards the Twilight design.

Also agreed on Warlock Punch. I don't agree with all the non-Ganon mains who want him reworked from the ground up, but there are parts of his kit that could be replaced without harm and his neutral special is the major one.

Would Twilight Princess Ganondorf be slower? We at least see him fight on the ground. OoT Ganondorf is flying for most of his fight.

Twilight Dorf is canonically the oldest, right? Well, him and Wind Waker Dorf, who doesn't seem to have any problem moving around quickly. Still, OoT Dorf is him in his younger days, at least.

He's too heavy, too powerful and just lives WAY too long to justify making faster imo.. his problems lie elsewhere.

I think the main thing holding him back is his predictable and extremely gimpable recovery. Arguably a decent weakness to zoning, but y'know... he needs SOME weakness.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Warlock Punch just doesn't have the same kind of, oomph, Falcon Punch has. Falcon has mobility over Ganon by leagues and miles, so even though it's a move you can read from the week prior to it being used, he can position himself in places (such as going for things like offstage FP's on the side of the screen like the swaglords us Falcon players tend to be) to use it a lot better. It's just way more hype overall, you have a spandex clad nipple racer yelling FALCON PUNCH as he unleashes a flaming bird from his arm, what's not to love?

Warlock Punch coming out of Ganon just feels.. clunky. I know it's functionally the same move, but when Ganon uses it.. I don't know man, it feels all that much slower which REALLY hurts such a move. Ganon doesn't have the mobility to start going for stuff such as reversed aerial WP on any sort of consistent basis, even if ONLY to be a disrespectful swaglord.. so I could live with it being gone entirely. The ONLY time I find myself using it is the reversed version post-shield break after pushing the opponent to the edge quickly.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What would worl best as a new neutral B for Ganon?

Using the cape to reflect projectiles or Dead Man's Volley?

 

[DelugeFGC]

There was a mod for Smash 4 that gave Ganon a variety of new moves, I believe one of the new Neutral B moves allowed him to conjure his sword from TP and briefly have a go swinging it around as an extension of his current hitboxes. Though that's a pretty out-there move, it COULD work and I'd be down for anything that brings Ganon closer in line to feeling remotely canon to his game appearances.. even to this day in Ult he feels like a weighted down Falcon clone with a few different moves. Having sword based Smash Attacks is a step in the right direction.. but not enough. Either that or the DMV tennis ball which could work similarly to a Gordo.

The hell even is a Warlock Punch?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There was a mod for Smash 4 that gave Ganon a variety of new moves, I believe one of the new Neutral B moves allowed him to conjure his sword from TP and briefly have a go swinging it around as an extension of his current hitboxes. Though that's a pretty out-there move, it COULD work and I'd be down for anything that brings Ganon closer in line to feeling remotely canon to his game appearances.. even to this day in Ult he feels like a weighted down Falcon clone with a few different moves. Having sword based Smash Attacks is a step in the right direction.. but not enough.

The irony in everything you just said is that OoT Ganon is the only incarnation of Dorf that doesn't use a sword.

So if anything, you'd only stray further from his canon self

 

[DelugeFGC]

The irony in everything you just said is that OoT Ganon is the only incarnation of Dorf that doesn't use a sword.

So if anything, you'd only stray further from his canon self

Yeah but isn't this Dorf the tech demo Dorf, which is where said sword came from anyway? Like Melee Dorf? Thus..

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah but isn't this Dorf the tech demo Dorf, which is where said sword came from anyway? Like Melee Dorf? Thus..

No. This one is straight up OoT Dorf.

The sword itself is from the demo, but his overall design is actually OoT.

 

[DelugeFGC]

No. This one is straight up OoT Dorf.

The sword itself is from the demo, but his overall design is actually OoT.

Weird choices all-round for the Dorf.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Weird choices all-round for the Dorf.

Voice clips don't help either. He straight up sounds like a savage berserker rather than the cunning king we know him as. I don't think it's even a joke to say that he roars more often in his moveset than Bowser.

It almost feels like the more accurate to the source material Smash gets, the more butchered Ganondorf's own portrayal becomes...

 

[DelugeFGC]

Voice clips don't help either. He straight up sounds like a savage berserker rather than the cunning king we know him as. I don't think it's even a joke to say that he roars more often in his moveset than Bowser.

It almost feels like the more accurate to the source material Smash gets, the more butchered Ganondorf's own portrayal becomes...

Yeah it's sort of gotten to the point where I've stopped viewing Smash Ganondorf as Ganondorf from Zelda as we know him to begin with. The more time goes on the more he just feels like this brainless meat mountain who lumbers around the stage grunting as he throws out heavily telegraphed punches and kicks.

That's just not Ganondorf to me at all.. and I actually like Smash Ganondorf. He was never anything I'd call close to accurate, but it's just gotten worse and if nothing else has affected the way I see him even OUTSIDE of Smash to a point now.

All said, even if OoT Ganondrof never used a sword, he's not a character that would require suspension of disbelief to see using one.. it feels more like he just never got around to it / had a current reason to in OoT.. plus pig Ganon straight up wields dual swords in OoT. It DOES, however, feel greatly out of place to see him sauntering around like a numb ogre kicking out his legs and hurling his arms around as he grunts and yells.. so there's that. I wish his moveset made more use of magic.. I would've been SO down with getting Wind Waker Ganondorf, dual blades and all as well. I'm happy with Ult Ganon compared to Brawl and 4 Ganon.. don't get me wrong, he could just be much better still.

If I could wish for my own personal, ideal version of Smash Ganondorf, it would be a true Twilight Princess Dorf. Sword, magic and all a part of his moveset. Something like a cross between Brawl / 4 Ike and Ult Mewtwo, in my head.. a slow, hard hitting & heavy swordsman who can also make use of dark magic and has some sort of projectile. Dual swords WW Ganondorf is a close second.

 

[Xelrog]

Voice clips don't help either. He straight up sounds like a savage berserker rather than the cunning king we know him as. I don't think it's even a joke to say that he roars more often in his moveset than Bowser.

That's what he did in Ocarina.

Anyway, I've said this before, but I'd like his neutral special to be the tennis ball magic - a projectile that can be hit back, like Gordos but straight. Up special could be reworked to give him limited free flight, and purely for style, his aerial down special could turn into the Ocarina fist slam. With all of this said, I've never seen his Twilight incarnation so I don't know what that fight is like or what he does therein.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's what he did in Ocarina.

Well, in all fairness, voice acting wasn't a thing in Zelda games until BotW.

But other Zelda characters in Smash show more emotion than just being a savage beasts, even in Zelda games.

We actually get to see quite some personality with Ganondorf in OoT, his grinning, his laugh, stuff like that.

In Ultimate? All he does is roar. Even the Ganon boss fight has more personality than Ganondorf.

That's what he did in Ocarina.

Anyway, I've said this before, but I'd like his neutral special to be the tennis ball magic - a projectile that can be hit back, like Gordos but straight. Up special could be reworked to give him limited free flight, and purely for style, his aerial down special could turn into the Ocarina fist slam. With all of this said, I've never seen his Twilight incarnation so I don't know what that fight is like or what he does therein.

You know how people wanted a swordwielding Ganon moveset?

Twilight Princess Ganondorf is basically the big reason why.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Out of curiosity, how would people act if nearly all the base game fighters received adjustments to their attributes, such as what's on the table in the spoiler box below?

Spoiler

Some changes could be considered highly debatable to some, while for others, they could be warranted. For one instance, nearly every fighter receives better air speed than and (only and would be slower). Either way, a lot of fighters would see adjustments to their overall mobility, weight, or even how quickly they'll fall.

But obviously, you do have to take into account each fighter's moveset along the way.

 

[TheDuke54]

I used to like the moving stages in Melee and Brawl, but the ones in Smash4 and SmashUlt are super annoying. The Mario Desert and Mushroom Kingdom are top on the list. Pacmans is pretty annoying to, but I guess since it was in Smash4 I grew used to its pattern. Still annoying though.

 

[Calamitas]

Not sure unpopular this particular one is, but I for one am getting really annoyed with people making "Most wanted/likely Smash DLC characters" - be they in video format or even just text postings - and stuffing them full of nothing but third-party characters. Just because Joker was unexpected doesn't mean that every third-party character under the sun has a chance now.

Also a more minor one, but I can't really take people calling Ganondorf just "Dorf" seriously, since that's literally just the German word for "village".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just because Joker was unexpected doesn't mean that every third-party character under the sun has a chance now.

People think that Spirits = deconfirmed.

And almost every single first-party that had a genuine shot before Spirits were announced... are Spirits now.

Not getting Joker really wouldn't have prevented that. If anything, he's made things wilder because now, even franchises with absolutely zero connections to Nintendo and niche franchises are possible.

But that's just my opinion on things.

Also a more minor one, but I can't really take people calling Ganondorf just "Dorf" seriously, since that's literally just the German word for "village".

Ganon Village is best village

 

[Idon]

What people wanted was Ganondorf as he always has been, Magical Electric and Dark Ocarina of Time Ganondorf or Dark Swordsman Twilight Princess Ganondorf. I very much doubt I can go to any discussion on the internet and find someone asking "Yeah, I want Ganondorf to retain all of his punching and kicking, but replace JUST his Smashes with generic Sword Slams. Also use his Ocarina of Time version and have him use the tech demo sword."

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I actually really like Ultimate Ganon and find myself really liking him for the first time since Melee, Brawl and 4 Ganon just felt so laughably bad to use, although I did prefer the Twilight Princess look for Ganon and I know I'm in the minority there.

I seriously do not understand why Ganondorf is locked to his Melee OoT appearance when Ike received both his Brawl PoR and Sm4sh RD designs as costumes. Were they just really trying to scrub Twilight Princess out?

 

[TheDuke54]

They didn't have enough time to make another Ganondorf skin for his Twilight version. They utilized all their time in perfecting online. And we should be thankful for that.

 

[Calamitas]

They didn't have enough time to make another Ganondorf skin for his Twilight version. They utilized all their time in perfecting online. And we should be thankful for that.

Why should that even take so much time? TP Ganondorf was in Smash 4. They could've easily just touched up his model some more. And wasn't one of the given reasons why all characters from the series' history was able to come back because they could reuse so many assets from 4?

 

[TheDuke54]

lol bro I was kidding. Online is pretty bad. Which is why I said that.

I mean I thought the same thing. But there's a lot of head scratchers in Ult.

 

[Arthur97]

People think that Spirits = deconfirmed.

And almost every single first-party that had a genuine shot before Spirits were announced... are Spirits now.

Not getting Joker really wouldn't have prevented that. If anything, he's made things wilder because now, even franchises with absolutely zero connections to Nintendo and niche franchises are possible.

But that's just my opinion on things.


Ganon Village is best village

Is Persona even niche anymore? I'm not sure it is. Besides, it still has that...whatever game on 3DS so it still meets a minimum single appearance (though Cloud's was really pushing it back in the day).

Still though, I'm not taking a PNG as a strict decomfirmation. Not when Chrom is a thing, or, you know, two other K. Rool spirits.

 

[TheDuke54]

I always found it odd that Cloud got into Smash4 and even Ult, when he never appeared in any game and SquareSoft and now SquareEnix pretty much ignored Nintendo for the longest time and gave them a crap title for the Gamecube. And in staying true to this service are now pushing it back on us as a HD port for the switch.

A game no one ever asked for.

All the other fighters who have came or have made reveals have at least had some relevance in Nintendo gaming recently

 

[Door Key Pig]

I seriously do not understand why Ganondorf is locked to his Melee OoT appearance when Ike received both his Brawl PoR and Sm4sh RD designs as costumes. Were they just really trying to scrub Twilight Princess out?

Well they would have had a bunch of alternate Zelda character costumes to fit into the 8 slots; Ganon and Sheik maybe could have been done like Ike, but Zelda and Link had like two other Smash designs, with Zelda's being different in figure.

 

[Arthur97]

I always found it odd that Cloud got into Smash4 and even Ult, when he never appeared in any game and SquareSoft and now SquareEnix pretty much ignored Nintendo for the longest time and gave them a crap title for the Gamecube. And in staying true to this service are now pushing it back on us as a HD port for the switch.

A game no one ever asked for.

All the other fighters who have came or have made reveals have at least had some relevance in Nintendo gaming recently

I think a lot of people wanted a remake of FFVII if just to fix the horrible translation.

Still, blame Sakurai for his choice of FF rep.

But yes, Cloud is the most out of place with Snake following behind.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

perfecting online

Nice joke

 

[BowserKing]

Not sure unpopular this particular one is, but I for one am getting really annoyed with people making "Most wanted/likely Smash DLC characters" - be they in video format or even just text postings - and stuffing them full of nothing but third-party characters. Just because Joker was unexpected doesn't mean that every third-party character under the sun has a chance now.

Same here, because I think some Nintendo characters would be potential DLC Fighters

As for people who think Spirits=Disconfirm, that is not true.

And even if it is, isn't it suspicious that Adeleine is not even in the game.