Unofficial Project M Ridley - CLASSIC RIDLEY BETA RELEASED! 31/10/16

[ZenythSmash]

Rip in Geemrz, limb spikes: 2014-2015
"My greatest is dream is a world with more freaky reaction faces like Nintend0Ultra's."

Oh, an idea! You know how if you hold a button, and you can start the fight as either Sopo or Giga Bowser? What if you could start the fight as giant Ridley?


Also, it just personally peeves me his tail spike is purple; if there's gonna be nothing but bone there, then there's no point of covering it with skin.

eh, i already asked Bagan that.

it's only possible if there was another character space available. Giant DK and Meta-Mario had their own slots in 64, so consistent-sized Ridley would have to have it's own space (which there isn't any available room for Bagan to do it)

 

[TopazPhoenix]

SSBB does not supports 8-player smash and neither does PM. So, only 4 can be taken (well, there can be 6 players at once, but not in regular matches).

Nope.

I decided what exactly to do with Kirby's copy of Ridley's fireball. It will have equal start up and end lag and will shoot a kinda small, but not that small fireball as powerful as it is now, with damage getting reduced and everything.
EDIT: welp, BrawlBox f***ing crashes. So, its just aesthetic now.

When you say it crashes, was it after you edited Kirby's moveset file in Smashattacks (or whatever it's called)? I heard somewhere that if you try to open a moveset in Brawlbox that's been edited by that program, it can crash, though the file still works in game... Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

When you say it crashes, was it after you edited Kirby's moveset file in Smashattacks (or whatever it's called)? I heard somewhere that if you try to open a moveset in Brawlbox that's been edited by that program, it can crash, though the file still works in game... Just thought it was worth mentioning.

I was editing it in BrawlBox because i don't want to search required subactions for f***ing ever and i have to change articles' attributes too. File will work in the game, but what i did in BrawlBox will not save.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Now that I have some spare time, I've decided to redo the Brawl model alt I had been trying to to a while back, but with a better, more Brawl-accurate, model.
Problem; texture for the head and wings is screwed up and the eyes won't even show a texture.

This isn't really related to testing, so I suppose putting it here would be more appropriate instead of in the private conversation for the team.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Now that I have some spare time, I've decided to redo the Brawl model alt I had been trying to to a while back, but with a better, more Brawl-accurate, model.
Problem; texture for the head and wings is screwed up and the eyes won't even show a texture.
View attachment 53091

This isn't really related to testing, so I suppose putting it here would be more appropriate instead of in the private conversation for the team.

He looks stretched. Intentional? Because this isn't really necessary, as shown once by me somewhere here.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

He looks stretched. Intentional? Because this isn't really necessary, as shown once by me somewhere here.

I had stretched out the wings a bit to make it look more like the base Ridley, but it doesn't really look that good in hindsight.

I managed to fix the texture issue, though; it was just a matter of the way I had the textures applied to the model.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I had stretched out the wings a bit to make it look more like the base Ridley, but it doesn't really look that good in hindsight.

I managed to fix the texture issue, though; it was just a matter of the way I had the textures applied to the model.

You can just stretch his bones as i showed before rather than resizing the whole thing. It was nearly perfect.

 

[OmegaBazil]

You can just stretch his bones as i showed before rather than resizing the whole thing. It was nearly perfect.

i did more resurch on ridley. He has a species of his own. theirs two other members in the metroid world one is named Greed and the other is a judge that's working for the galactic federation amazing find i know.. who knows maybe we will see his supposed race that are called ''Space dragons'' So we may not see ridley anymore in metroid future series.. we may since he cheats death more then lord Voldemort. but we may even see his brother someday or son. im happy to know theres other space dragons out there XD

back on topic.. Ooooooooo! new model i see. whats this about did project m accept your ridley?! :D

 

[BaganSmashBros]

i did more resurch on ridley. He has a species of his own. theirs two other members in the metroid world one is named Greed and the other is a judge that's working for the galactic federation amazing find i know.. who knows maybe we will see his supposed race that are called ''Space dragons'' So we may not see ridley anymore in metroid future series.. we may since he cheats death more then lord Voldemort. but we may even see his brother someday or son. im happy to know theres other space dragons out there XD

back on topic.. Ooooooooo! new model i see. whats this about did project m accept your ridley?! :D

Well, they are not canon though (especially that judge since it wasn't truly metroid stuff).

No, they did not. This is false.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Up Taunt finally finished:

During smash taunt version of it, hitbox lasts around 50 frames. It has 2x lower shield damage and absolutely no knockback, can't affect opponents in the air at all (but this means that they will be stunned once they land), has rather large hitbox and 50 frames of start up. Its not really meant to be used for anything serious, but if someone will find use for it, then im fine with it. Ganondorf's Sword Taunt is far more devastating if you'll ask me.
This animation is one of the largest in terms of filesize and i like how it turned out. It certainly looks more...er...powerful than old Up Taunt animation.
Also, i most likely will remake Final Smash animation to have shorter duration and better animation.

 

[??Sanic Hedgehog??]

Up Taunt finally finished:

During smash taunt version of it, hitbox lasts around 50 frames. It has 2x lower shield damage and absolutely no knockback, can't affect opponents in the air at all (but this means that they will be stunned once they land), has rather large hitbox and 50 frames of start up. Its not really meant to be used for anything serious, but if someone will find use for it, then im fine with it. Ganondorf's Sword Taunt is far more devastating if you'll ask me.
This animation is one of the largest in terms of filesize and i like how it turned out. It certainly looks more...er...powerful than old Up Taunt animation.
Also, i most likely will remake Final Smash animation to have shorter duration and better animation.

W͓̽o͓̽w͓̽, 2.0 i͓̽s͓̽ l͓̽o͓̽o͓̽k͓̽i͓̽n͓̽g͓̽ g͓̽o͓̽o͓̽d͓̽ I͓̽ c͓̽a͓̽n͓̽'t͓̽ w͓̽a͓̽i͓̽t͓̽ f͓̽o͓̽r͓̽ i͓̽t͓̽s͓̽ r͓̽e͓̽l͓̽e͓̽a͓̽s͓̽e͓̽

 

[Draco74]

Up Taunt finally finished:

During smash taunt version of it, hitbox lasts around 50 frames. It has 2x lower shield damage and absolutely no knockback, can't affect opponents in the air at all (but this means that they will be stunned once they land), has rather large hitbox and 50 frames of start up. Its not really meant to be used for anything serious, but if someone will find use for it, then im fine with it. Ganondorf's Sword Taunt is far more devastating if you'll ask me.
This animation is one of the largest in terms of filesize and i like how it turned out. It certainly looks more...er...powerful than old Up Taunt animation.
Also, i most likely will remake Final Smash animation to have shorter duration and better animation.

Awesome!!

 

[MerryShadow]

Up Taunt finally finished:

During smash taunt version of it, hitbox lasts around 50 frames. It has 2x lower shield damage and absolutely no knockback, can't affect opponents in the air at all (but this means that they will be stunned once they land), has rather large hitbox and 50 frames of start up. Its not really meant to be used for anything serious, but if someone will find use for it, then im fine with it. Ganondorf's Sword Taunt is far more devastating if you'll ask me.
This animation is one of the largest in terms of filesize and i like how it turned out. It certainly looks more...er...powerful than old Up Taunt animation.
Also, i most likely will remake Final Smash animation to have shorter duration and better animation.

Nice!

Space pirate mook:"General Ridley, our outposts are under attack! They say it's the Hunter!"
Ridley:"....fffffffffffFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

As a bit of a teaser for our next release, whenever that may come, I'll post that the new Ridley we're testing is a bit more balanced than the Ridley of before. Be sure to keep an eye on this thread for any future updates from one of the staff members!

 

[BaganSmashBros]

It will be worth it, thats for sure.

...unfortunately, no. It has nothing to do with PM.

...anyway, about some of the 2.0 changes not shown in the video or those that were done after it:

• (most likely) Ridley will get his specs stuff back while still keeping rimlighting. He won't be as dark as he was before though.
• Normal ledge attack replaced with just a claw swipe because current one is easy to spam.
• FSmash knockback/damage buff to bring it closer to other slow, but strong attacks like Ike's FSmash. Since it has shorter range than before, it won't be a bad thing.
• Side B will no longer be able to throw opponent down the pit if he gets too close to the edge of platform. Instead, he will leap back like he does during back roll and throw opponent down. Animation's duration won't change, so, he will be able to act quickly.
• No diagonal fireballs because of what im trying to do with them. Well, unless that will fail. If it will, then damage nerf from 14 to 10.

Remember this post^? Well, not everything could be done. Fireballs were just nerfed in damage and base knockback rather than being reworked because its a huge pain in the bones. Everything else not related to fireballs was done though.
And old Up B is back. It is activated by holding B during Up B while he is going up. Its same as before, except doesn't goes as far forward as it did before, doesn't goes into helpless state (he still loses his Up B until he lands or gets hit). Reverse Ledge Grab is still here, but sometimes fails to grab the ledge and he instead just goes forward as usual.

 

[Cahalan]

Remember this post^? Well, not everything could be done. Fireballs were just nerfed in damage and base knockback rather than being reworked because its a huge pain in the bones. Everything else not related to fireballs was done though.
And old Up B is back. It is activated by holding B during Up B while he is going up. Its same as before, except doesn't goes as far forward as it did before, doesn't goes into helpless state (he still loses his Up B until he lands or gets hit). Reverse Ledge Grab is still here, but sometimes fails to grab the ledge and he instead just goes forward as usual.

I just realized that your pirate-Ridley avatar is cos-playing King K. Rool's pirate get up... Does this mean anything?
BTW, nice progress on the mod! Can't wait for 2.0 to drop...
Til then, have this I made:

(I'm still not doing shadows, as the style I'm aiming for with my CSS stuff is more towards Sm4sh just as an FYI)

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

On a side note, I've made a new banner for people to use in signatures; it's already in mine, but the link to the image itself is here.

 

[GerbilCrab475]

I just realized that your pirate-Ridley avatar is cos-playing King K. Rool's pirate get up... Does this mean anything?

No, he got the coat from the beta K. Rool PSA below.

Is this why you decided not to make K. Rool?
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=208537

However...

No, not that. Something A LOT better...

 

[OmegaBazil]

Up Taunt finally finished:

During smash taunt version of it, hitbox lasts around 50 frames. It has 2x lower shield damage and absolutely no knockback, can't affect opponents in the air at all (but this means that they will be stunned once they land), has rather large hitbox and 50 frames of start up. Its not really meant to be used for anything serious, but if someone will find use for it, then im fine with it. Ganondorf's Sword Taunt is far more devastating if you'll ask me.
This animation is one of the largest in terms of filesize and i like how it turned out. It certainly looks more...er...powerful than old Up Taunt animation.
Also, i most likely will remake Final Smash animation to have shorter duration and better animation.

https://youtu.be/uKtNE3NMjhU

Fitting theme i have to say for 2.0

 

[themaziest]

And old Up B is back. It is activated by holding B during Up B while he is going up.

Yay, I must say the old move was really fitting for Ridley and I'm glad you brought it back in a smart way.

 

[OmegaBazil]

Nice!

Space pirate mook:"General Ridley, our outposts are under attack! They say it's the Hunter!"
Ridley:"....fffffffffffFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"

>> that dosent look like that.. it looks like ridley is going to rip your scrawny head off and drink your guts with a straw... Which he dose!

 

[NXero]

I'm happy to say that Ridley finally feels like he belongs in PM now! (Or at least, he fits a LOT better that any other unofficial PM character I've seen so far). He no longer has strong spamable moves and feels pretty balanced overall, even with his strong aerial focus (I'm not a balancing expert, so I could be wrong). 2.0 is still not finished, though, don't get too excited.

Good job Bagan!

 

[ZenythSmash]

oi, over 100 voters who "saw" the PM mod thinks Ridley is still "too big".

they really don't wanna stop, will they? Even Riddles sick of this excuse joke. (at least 600 more voters that came here give less of a darn about that beaten down dilemma.)

 

[BaganSmashBros]

On a side note, I've made a new banner for people to use in signatures; it's already in mine, but the link to the image itself is here.

Looks good btw.

I just realized that your pirate-Ridley avatar is cos-playing King K. Rool's pirate get up... Does this mean anything?
BTW, nice progress on the mod! Can't wait for 2.0 to drop...
Til then, have this I made:
View attachment 53286 View attachment 53287
(I'm still not doing shadows, as the style I'm aiming for with my CSS stuff is more towards Sm4sh just as an FYI)

No, i just stole Tabuu's King K.Rool alt's coat model. Its just a joke like my other profile pics (Captain Ridley, MLG Ridley, Ghost Ridley, etc).
I think having outline on those (like on PM and Brawl CSSs) would look better, but they look good like this too.

https://youtu.be/uKtNE3NMjhU

Fitting theme i have to say for 2.0

Why not use Ridley Theme remix like Dragonfood by OC Remixes, Ridley VS Samus by...don't know who, Dark Intelligence by Harmony of Heroes crew or Cave Dweller by Harmony of a Hunter crew?

oi, over 100 voters who "saw" the PM mod thinks Ridley is still "too big".

they really don't wanna stop, will they? Even Riddles sick of this excuse joke. (at least 600 more voters that came here give less of a darn about that beaten down dilemma.)

Yeah, it sucks. But hey, most of voters approve this.

 

[OmegaBazil]

Looks good btw.

No, i just stole Tabuu's King K.Rool alt's coat model. Its just a joke like my other profile pics (Captain Ridley, MLG Ridley, Ghost Ridley, etc).
I think having outline on those (like on PM and Brawl CSSs) would look better, but they look good like this too.

Why not use Ridley Theme remix like Dragonfood by OC Remixes, Ridley VS Samus by...don't know who, Dark Intelligence by Harmony of Heroes crew or Cave Dweller by Harmony of a Hunter crew?

Yeah, it sucks. But hey, most of voters approve this.

Because its ridleys area theme and when you hear the music who do you think of? ridley :D

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Because its ridleys area theme and when you hear the music who do you think of? ridley :D

I think of awesome music and latin stuff first and Lower Norfair appears only in 1 game. Ridley's Theme instantly makes me think of Ridley because its his theme. So, while Lower Norfair theme is awesome, Ridley's theme is even better and it is a lot more fitting.

Anyway, to make Kirby hat mode interesting, i decided to change it a little bit:

I just need to fix it (right now, it randomly changes tint and its shared between matches). While this hat doesn't really matches Ridley's model, it looks a lot more fitting (its cartoonish and it fits Kirby's head better) and doesn't looks as empty. And Kirby still has OoT Zelda hat.

 

[GerbilCrab475]

I think of awesome music and latin stuff first and Lower Norfair appears only in 1 game. Ridley's Theme instantly makes me think of Ridley because its his theme. So, while Lower Norfair theme is awesome, Ridley's theme is even better and it is a lot more fitting.

Anyway, to make Kirby hat mode interesting, i decided to change it a little bit:

I just need to fix it (right now, it randomly changes tint and its shared between matches). While this hat doesn't really matches Ridley's model, it looks a lot more fitting (its cartoonish and it fits Kirby's head better) and doesn't looks as empty. And Kirby still has OoT Zelda hat.

It's adorable.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Eh, I liked the previous hat that was posted better though, but yeah.

 

[NXero]

The other one looked kinda small in-game, I think it was due to the lack of wings. I like this one more, but either one is fine. Now, if only Kirby was able to throw fireballs too...

 

[BaganSmashBros]

The other one looked kinda small in-game, I think it was due to the lack of wings. I like this one more, but either one is fine. Now, if only Kirby was able to throw fireballs too...

That would be gud. But first, i've gotta find out how to edit Kirby's moveset file without BrawlBox crashing and how to edit Pit's arrow article in his file.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I think I may have found a video tutorial for exactly what we need, actually;

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I think I may have found a video tutorial for exactly what we need, actually;

I don't think thats what we need...

 

[The Peacekeeper]

I love how much this mod has progressed, each new update makes it better and better! (well, pretty sure that's the point).
To be honest, I was one of those people who thought "Ridley is too big for Smash" because I thought it would look weird and it just wouldn't be right. The moment I saw Vancolicious' The Villain that Project M needs, I immediately knew how wrong I was to the point that he is basically one of my mains. Keep up the good work Mate, until then I shall wait patiently for the next release.

 

[Mapet]

This project looks amazing. I'm reluctant to use it though because it replaces Pit. I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but what are the chances that this gets included in official versions of Project M?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

This project looks amazing. I'm reluctant to use it though because it replaces Pit. I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but what are the chances that this gets included in official versions of Project M?

Not very likely if the PMDT can't decide on if it should be included, unfortunately.

And replacing Pit is a neccesary sacrifice; Bagan has tried porting him to Lucario, but things got really wonky when he did, so for now Ridley's stuck over Pit.

 

[Mapet]

And replacing Pit is a neccesary sacrifice; Bagan has tried porting him to Lucario, but things got really wonky when he did, so for now Ridley's stuck over Pit.

Interesting. I don't know anything about Brawl hacking: Why is the PMDT able to add new characters with portraits and everything but this mod is unable to?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Interesting. I don't know anything about Brawl hacking: Why is the PMDT able to add new characters with portraits and everything but this mod is unable to?

Because the PMDT has the Clone Engine, which allows them to literally clone slots to use as new characters. We don't, so we have to make do with either porting over an existing character or using an outdated version just for BrawlEX compatibility.

If the Clone Engine is ever officially released (which I doubt will happen for a long time), we would obviously jump all over seperating Ridley from Pit. As it stands, however, we can't without downgrading versions.

 

[Mapet]

I see. I'm going to try Ridley out later today, you guys have my support and I wish you the best of luck!

 

[NXero]

You can test 1.9, but keep in mind that it has a lot of issues/moves that Bagan will fix/change in the next version, so don't get discouraged if you see something that you don't like (or too attached to his current moveset)

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I love how much this mod has progressed, each new update makes it better and better! (well, pretty sure that's the point).
To be honest, I was one of those people who thought "Ridley is too big for Smash" because I thought it would look weird and it just wouldn't be right. The moment I saw Vancolicious' The Villain that Project M needs, I immediately knew how wrong I was to the point that he is basically one of my mains. Keep up the good work Mate, until then I shall wait patiently for the next release.

Thanks. Good to know that this kind of thing actually can happen.

This project looks amazing. I'm reluctant to use it though because it replaces Pit. I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but what are the chances that this gets included in official versions of Project M?

Rather low. But just Ridley getting included in official PM has higher chance after the whole SSB4 s**t with him.

You can test 1.9, but keep in mind that it has a lot of issues/moves that Bagan will fix/change in the next version, so don't get discouraged if you see something that you don't like (or too attached to his current moveset)

This.

Among changes that already are done are:

• New model with slightly shorter beak, longer teeth, horns on the eyebrows, no arm and leg spikes, longer tail spikes and fixed purple spots on his wings.
• Lower tail length, which reduces his tail range and overall range to more fair level (now Dedede has the highest range).
• Less effective air jumps.
• Due to Down B's removal (look below for more info on that), now Ridley has more detailed hurtboxes and has 2 thin hurtboxes on his wings (they are not present on the wing "fingers" and wing membranes though since that wouldn't make any sense). So, its more fair when you hit him and he doesn't touches blast zone as easily since that giant hurtbox used as a reflector (which is intangible, but this doesn't saves it from blast zones) is no longer present.
• All claw attacks have sourspots with lower damage.
• Tail has smaller hitboxes. Before, they were too big for no reasons. Now they better fit the model.
• Slower glide that also can't be angled up as much.
• DAir now ends with Ridley getting his tail stuck in the ground instead of bouncing up, he doesn't bounces up on hit as high, knockback is a lot lower and can spike only at first few frames (otherwise, launches up), but damage gets higher as he goes down until it goes from 14% to 22%. But Ridley ends DAir after some time, so, you're not guaranteed to hit opponent below if you're too high even if he/she doesn't moves.
• Normal ledge attack is now just a normal claw swipe similar to his jab's 2nd hit. Deals higher damage though. Can KO.
• FTilt now can be angled and is no longer just a horizontal tail swing (its more like his BAir in 1.95). It is also faster, but has lower range. Animation is completly different too and Ridley doesn't goes forward at all.
• DTilt is also changed. Now it consists of 2 parts - normal low claw swipe with rather low start up and nearly no knockback and 2nd hit that launches opponent up with above average knockback and has average end lag. 2nd part can be delayed by pressing the button later. It automatically goes into 2nd part if A is held while performing 1st part.
• UTilt now has higher start up and lower hitbox duration. End lag is pretty much same as before. And GFX looks noice.
• Now Ridley swings his tail up during BAir instead of swinging it sideways.
• NAir has lower base knockback.
• Neutral B now has usual damage decrease that other spammable projectiles in the game have. It also deals lower damage (8%). GFX is unchanged.
• Neutral B alt has lower range, lower knockback, lower damage and deals higher damage in the middle. Also received a noice GFX update.
• Side B no longer works SSB4 Charizard's Dragon Rush. Instead, its a command grab. It has average start up, very low hitbox duration and high end lag. If he hits, he will grind opponent on the floor, then jump back and throw the poor guy on the floor. It can be teched, but Ridley is free to do anything around 5 frames after opponent hits the ground. So, you can either use DTilt if opponent didn't teched, FSmash if opponent is rolling away from you and jump and Down B or DAir if opponent uses get up attack.
• Up B now has lower knockback and has sourspots with lower damage (around 12% instead of 18%). It also has alternate version used by holding B while he jumps up. It is same as old Up B (a U-shaped swoop). It has a unique property - if used very close to the ledge, he will grab it. Its not as useful as before because of new normal ledge attack, but still has its use. The only real difference between this and old Up B is how far he travels up and forward when using it. He also doesn't gets carried up by momentum. Instead, he starts going down. This attack disables Up B just like its normal version.
• Smash taunt moved to Up Taunt. It can't affect opponents in the air, but this means that they will get stunned if they will land near him. Hitbox on it is signifficantly bigger than it was before.
• Now has a Kirby hat! Kirby still uses Pit's arrows when copying Ridley's ability, but hat model is changed. Model i recently showed is not getting used and instead a different one will be used, with Other M model used as a base and most likely with a tail.
  
• Down Taunt now can damage opponent if he/she gets some of that fire drool on them. Deals around 8% total, with absolutely no knockback.
• Several rather unnoticable and insignifficant changes that are not worth losing sleep, not worth analysing.

Things that are going to be done:

• Ground Down B, due to being buggy (some hitboxes, like tail blade hitbox on FTilt, are disabled when in this state for some reasons) and kinda unfair (for a large character at least since this removes one of their main weaknesses - being projectile sponges - while still being able to move around freely with rather insignifficant debuffs outside of L-Cancelling getting disabled), is getting replaced with...something. I and me crew o' beta testers are still choosing what should replace it. We have 4 versions:
  • Ridley crouches, then quickly dashes forward, knocking everyone out of the way. Based off Omega Ridley's ramming attack. Doesn't stops at the ledge.
  • Ridley shoots a large fireball aimed at the ground while jumping up. Very similar to old normal ledge attack. Based off his Other M fireball attack he uses once he finishes applying his reflective armor whatever. Would be rather fitting as ground version of Down B since he most of the time goes into the air while using this attack and always lands using what became aerial version of Down B.
  • Ridley jumps up like Charizard during his ground Down B in PM. However, it can't be charged, he doesn't goes back/forward as much and he can damage opponent while going up just like Lucario and Samus during their Up Bs. Fast way to go into the air, but too similar to Charizard's.
  • Ridley steps back and shoots a fireball where he was a moment ago, creating a wall of fire, similar to Firebrand's fireball special when aimed down. Hit multiple times with above average shield damage and rather low damage and knockback. Launches up. Has average start up, long hitbox duration and low end lag. Wall of fire has low horizontal range and high vertical range. It can be absorbed, but not reflected. It disappears if Ridley is hit anyhow or platform under him disappears. This one is my favourite one, but we still have to test if its fair or useless.
• Final Smash has lower duration that before.
• (not sure, doesn't depends on me) Thanks to @ themaziest , now Ridley uses new SFX that is mix of several versions of Ridley's roars. Its overall more varied and less repetitive.

So, its going to be pretty different from previous versions.