Unofficial Project M Ridley - CLASSIC RIDLEY BETA RELEASED! 31/10/16

[0RLY]

I feel that Ridley should definitely be the biggest character in the game, not Bowser. I have no idea why you would feel that way. Plus, it helps push the limit of smash and helps us see if there really is such thing as "too big".

To resolve the wing-clipping-through-platforms issue, just don't have them flap so much while he's grounded. Keep them folded down, like a bird would. Try using some front to back flaps rather than up to down flaps. I personally never saw this as an issue anyways. People clip through Fountain of Dream's platforms all the time. Same with Yoshi's Island angled platforms. Don't restrict yourself so much.

You don't need to downsize his tail so much if you just keep the end-half of the tail intangible. Just like Mewtwo's tail.

Ridley's dthrow animation involves him looking away from the camera, which looks awkward. I think it would look best if it looked like his grab from zero mission. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1355

It looks really strange to see Ridley stand straight up to charge a fireball when he stands hunched over the rest of the time. Even worse, he bends over to shoot the fireball, which is misleading. Ridley should definitely bend over when charging so he doesn't have to do it when firing. If you wanted that animation there to add extra start-up lag, you can instead have the fireball in his mouth flash, grow bigger, condensing it and shooting.

From what I've seen in the video, Ridley looks super slow. It's fine to have a ton of start up lag, but Ridley here has a ton of animation lag. The attacks need to finish faster. It looks superweak when Ridley upsmashes and his wings move slower than a gentle punch. The same goes for his dsmash.

Ridley's nair (fair?), the one that looks exactly like a slower version of Charizard's with no sweetspot, also animates far too slowly. To differentiate it from Zard, try making this into his nair (or fair): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1370

Overall, Ridley needs to spin less. It doesn't really fit his character. The more tail swipes, bites, and wing slaps the better. For example, his utilt is an excellent, very-Ridley like move. It just needs to animate faster for that visual power. Perhaps even a hitbox as the tail lands and hits the ground.

His dair also looks weird, since you have him turn to face the camera. That turn should be completely unnecessary. If you wanted it to hit closer to the middle of his body, just angle the tail slightly. In the video clip above, a good example of dair can be seen right after his nair. I'll link it anyways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1375

His uair looks good, it's just that it doesn't look that much different from his midair jumps. Have his wings come closer together for a clap. If you can add a sound effect to the end of the animation to complete the clap, that would be even better.

Side-b, the wind move, should give Ridley some backwards momentum if used in the air, like Zard's side-b or Squirtle's water gun.

Ridley's up-b appears to give next to no vertical height. Can the glide be cancelled by anything? Is it b-reversable? Is the jump from the ground part of the move? If it is, that would make it the worst up-b from shield in the game.

Overall, great job! You're doing god's work! :D

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Lol his tail may be thicker, but it's not longer. Instead of using that picture for exact proportions, I was only trying to detail how a slightly smaller head and wingspan don't appear as ridiculous as some may think.

Other M Ridley (or an original model) would definitely suit him better, but you can still use clever animation techniques to make his wonky proportions work.

Best of luck to you on this one. I know this is a work in progress, but researching different animation principles might help you to refine the movements and make for a much more fluid Riddles.

It is longer actually. Anyway, i know that his head must be smaller, so, it will be fixed, but i don't think his wingspan on that image looks good. It doesn't looks like something that could lift him.
Thanks for the advice.

I feel that Ridley should definitely be the biggest character in the game, not Bowser. I have no idea why you would feel that way. Plus, it helps push the limit of smash and helps us see if there really is such thing as "too big".

To resolve the wing-clipping-through-platforms issue, just don't have them flap so much while he's grounded. Keep them folded down, like a bird would. Try using some front to back flaps rather than up to down flaps. I personally never saw this as an issue anyways. People clip through Fountain of Dream's platforms all the time. Same with Yoshi's Island angled platforms. Don't restrict yourself so much.

You don't need to downsize his tail so much if you just keep the end-half of the tail intangible. Just like Mewtwo's tail.

Ridley's dthrow animation involves him looking away from the camera, which looks awkward. I think it would look best if it looked like his grab from zero mission. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1355

It looks really strange to see Ridley stand straight up to charge a fireball when he stands hunched over the rest of the time. Even worse, he bends over to shoot the fireball, which is misleading. Ridley should definitely bend over when charging so he doesn't have to do it when firing. If you wanted that animation there to add extra start-up lag, you can instead have the fireball in his mouth flash, grow bigger, condensing it and shooting.

From what I've seen in the video, Ridley looks super slow. It's fine to have a ton of start up lag, but Ridley here has a ton of animation lag. The attacks need to finish faster. It looks superweak when Ridley upsmashes and his wings move slower than a gentle punch. The same goes for his dsmash.

Ridley's nair (fair?), the one that looks exactly like a slower version of Charizard's with no sweetspot, also animates far too slowly. To differentiate it from Zard, try making this into his nair (or fair): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1370

Overall, Ridley needs to spin less. It doesn't really fit his character. The more tail swipes, bites, and wing slaps the better. For example, his utilt is an excellent, very-Ridley like move. It just needs to animate faster for that visual power. Perhaps even a hitbox as the tail lands and hits the ground.

His dair also looks weird, since you have him turn to face the camera. That turn should be completely unnecessary. If you wanted it to hit closer to the middle of his body, just angle the tail slightly. In the video clip above, a good example of dair can be seen right after his nair. I'll link it anyways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsB9S9-7Es#t=1375

His uair looks good, it's just that it doesn't look that much different from his midair jumps. Have his wings come closer together for a clap. If you can add a sound effect to the end of the animation to complete the clap, that would be even better.

Side-b, the wind move, should give Ridley some backwards momentum if used in the air, like Zard's side-b or Squirtle's water gun.

Ridley's up-b appears to give next to no vertical height. Can the glide be cancelled by anything? Is it b-reversable? Is the jump from the ground part of the move? If it is, that would make it the worst up-b from shield in the game.

Overall, great job! You're doing god's work! :D

Bowser is the largest Nintendo character and looks a lot bulkier, so, he should be the largest character in SSB (too bad they scaled him down in SSB4). Ridley, while still a large character, is not even close to that and isn't much taller than Ganondorf and close to Ganon's (from OOT and TP) size, so, i don't think he should be the largest one.
Clipping isn't that much of issue since it never was in SSB. I will rotate wings in such way they won't get in the way too much to more-or-less fix this problem.
It is fully intangible, like it should be. Same goes for wings' second half.
It looks like that only when turned to left side of the screen. He faces opponent during it. Charizard looks away from the screen when using Down Throw too.
He stands straight to make animation look different and because it looked like that in SSBC. I will edit animation to make it look like ground version of Meta Ridley's giant fireball attack in SSE. Your idea could work too if it could be properly done with what is possible for now.
He has so much animation lag on the ground to balance him since in the air, his attacks are both fast and powerful and he is just superiour in the air. Kinda like Meta Knight, but not that fast and with higher knockback. USmash is executed in 10 frames after charging animation. I agree about making DSmash faster.
FAir has sweetspot that is superiour than Charizard's since it is a meteor smash/spike when tail's tip hits instead of the rest of the tail and deals higher knockback.
He spins only during DSmash, FAir and NAir. It gives his attacks more range. Bites are not something Ridley uses a lot (only in Corruption during cutscene and if you will get too close to him) and its better to leave it just for grab jab/attack. In Other M, Ridley spins during some of his attacks (claw swipe combo, when he fails to grab Samus, etc) and even when turning (it can damage Samus if she is behind him unless his tail extends just for nothing). I will try to make unfinished attacks spin less except for maybe during animations like beam sword/home-run bat/batting items/whatever dash attack.
I agree about DAir. Should be closer to the way it is in Metroid games.
His wings during UAir do clap. It was left out of the video because of the lag during recording.
This is something i wanted to do.
Glide can be canceled by glide attack, which won't put Ridley into helpless state, or by pressing shield button. Don't know what b-reversing means. If it means can this recovery be reversed during its start, then yes it can be. And he has 5 jumps. If his recovery will be even better, then it will be useless to edgeguard or try to horizontaly KO him unless he has very high %.

I will use that feedback to make this hack better. For animation speed, don't forget that it is recorded from emulator, so, its not full 60fps speed. It also explains why there is audio issues and why video freezes for few seconds just before Samus could hit Ridley with Screw Attack.

 

[Jevedor]

Same thing that happens when you use Sonic's dash attack and back throw, Pikachu's back throw, Ganontackle, etc. when near the ledge - nothing. He will just stop moving forward. It happens with other characters' attacks and throws and can't be fixed anyhow, so, it won't be changed.

cool. I figured, but didnt know if it was a potential drag and drop of the ledge scenario... which would be amazing, OP but amazing.

 

[0RLY]

Bowser is the largest Nintendo character and looks a lot bulkier, so, he should be the largest character in SSB (too bad they scaled him down in SSB4). Ridley, while still a large character, is not even close to that and isn't much taller than Ganondorf and close to Ganon's (from OOT and TP) size, so, i don't think he should be the largest one.

Bowser's and Ridley's size changes in every game. Bowser can be bigger in one game while Ridley can be bigger in another. Bowser also exists in a world where mushrooms can change your size drastically.

Ganondorf is 8 to 9 feet tall. Samus is between 6 and 7. Ridley is magnitudes larger than Samus in every Metroid aside from 1 and 2 which have size limits.

I will edit animation to make it look like ground version of Meta Ridley's giant fireball attack in SSE. Your idea could work too if it could be properly done with what is possible for now.

That SSE fireball is good too!

He has so much animation lag on the ground to balance him since in the air, his attacks are both fast and powerful and he is just superiour in the air. Kinda like Meta Knight, but not that fast and with higher knockback. USmash is executed in 10 frames after charging animation. I agree about making DSmash faster.

Usmash is executed in 10 frames? That sounds like start-up lag. I'm talking about the animation. Like while the hitbox is active. That move needs to animate at least as fast as a jumping jack. I've seen good morning stretches with more vigor than the usmash I'm seeing here.

He spins only during DSmash, FAir and NAir. It gives his attacks more range. Bites are not something Ridley uses a lot (only in Corruption during cutscene and if you will get too close to him) and its better to leave it just for grab jab/attack. In Other M, Ridley spins during some of his attacks (claw swipe combo, when he fails to grab Samus, etc) and even when turning (it can damage Samus if she is behind him unless his tail extends just for nothing). I will try to make unfinished attacks spin less except for maybe during animations like beam sword/home-run bat/batting items/whatever dash attack.

Spinning dsmash is fine. Almost every character in the game has to spin for that move. Fair just feels the most out of place for me since it's so similar to Charizard's. It also functions similarly to an attack he actually has from all of the 2-d metroids, so it's just something Ridley fans would appreciate if you could make it work. The extra range can be added from enlarging the tail. I personally think his tail is plenty long enough as it is. Plus, his tail is tucked in, slightly curled from his current fair animation so it's not like you were making full range of it anyways.

His spinning nair, which I failed to comment on earlier, actually appears somewhat broken. I suppose any large sex kick would be considered broken, especially when it looks to function just like MK's. I'm entirely supportive of strong moves though, so I'd leave this alone.

Glide can be canceled by glide attack, which won't put Ridley into helpless state, or by pressing shield button. Don't know what b-reversing means. If it means can this recovery be reversed during its start, then yes it can be. And he has 5 jumps. If his recovery will be even better, then it will be useless to edgeguard or try to horizontaly KO him unless he has very high %.

Yes, that's what b-reversals are. Good! I'm fine with a less than stellar up-b. I was probably just a little worried before since you mentioned his weight as a weakness. I can't question your weight choice though, since large light characters are such a rarity in smash.

The other characters cancel their glides with B. I think it would be more appropriate there, especially when we also need that shield input for ledge techs while recovering.

I will use that feedback to make this hack better. For animation speed, don't forget that it is recorded from emulator, so, its not full 60fps speed. It also explains why there is audio issues and why video freezes for few seconds just before Samus could hit Ridley with Screw Attack.

I see, I guess I'm just so biased to expecting Samus to get knocked back like a feather that I assumed it was in normal speed. Looking forward to your next vid/pics!

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Bowser's and Ridley's size changes in every game. Bowser can be bigger in one game while Ridley can be bigger in another. Bowser also exists in a world where mushrooms can change your size drastically.

Ganondorf is 8 to 9 feet tall. Samus is between 6 and 7. Ridley is magnitudes larger than Samus in every Metroid aside from 1 and 2 which have size limits.

That SSE fireball is good too!

Ganondorf is 7.6 i think. He is at least 1.6x bigger than Link while Ridley is 2x bigger than Samus, so, they are close in size. I just don't feel its right to have Ridley bigger than Bowser. At least not by much.

Usmash is executed in 10 frames? That sounds like start-up lag. I'm talking about the animation. Like while the hitbox is active. That move needs to animate at least as fast as a jumping jack. I've seen good morning stretches with more vigor than the usmash I'm seeing here.

No, 10 frames (15 if you will count start of the smash attack) is when last hitbox (with high knockback on it, but lasts for less than 5 frames) appears. After than, there is 20 endlag frames. So, it is pretty fast.

Spinning dsmash is fine. Almost every character in the game has to spin for that move. Fair just feels the most out of place for me since it's so similar to Charizard's. It also functions similarly to an attack he actually has from all of the 2-d metroids, so it's just something Ridley fans would appreciate if you could make it work. The extra range can be added from enlarging the tail. I personally think his tail is plenty long enough as it is. Plus, his tail is tucked in, slightly curled from his current fair animation so it's not like you were making full range of it anyways.

I was talking about vertical range and i stretch his tail in few animations, so, horizontal range isn't an issue unless its not about tail. Also, which attack exactly was shown in that video? I can't watch youtube videos for some reasons.

His spinning nair, which I failed to comment on earlier, actually appears somewhat broken. I suppose any large sex kick would be considered broken, especially when it looks to function just like MK's. I'm entirely supportive of strong moves though, so I'd leave this alone.

It works not as good as MK's since it doesn't has much vertical range, but yes, it is strong and fast. That is part of his playstyle or whatever its called (he is superiour in the air than nearly anyone, but on the ground he isn't that good and chaingrabchaingrabchaingrab is possible since he is so big).

Yes, that's what b-reversals are. Good! I'm fine with a less than stellar up-b. I was probably just a little worried before since you mentioned his weight as a weakness. I can't question your weight choice though, since large light characters are such a rarity in smash.
The other characters cancel their glides with B. I think it would be more appropriate there, especially when we also need that shield input for ledge techs while recovering.

I didn't tried to use B to cancel glide. I will try that soon and post an update while doing so.

I see, I guess I'm just so biased to expecting Samus to get knocked back like a feather that I assumed it was in normal speed. Looking forward to your next vid/pics!

You won't have to wait for too long.

cool. I figured, but didnt know if it was a potential drag and drop of the ledge scenario... which would be amazing, OP but amazing.

Like Ganonchoke (i know its not official name, but if Captain Falcon has Falcon everything, then why can't Ganondorf has Ganon everything?), but easier to use? Yeah, that would be cheap and/or overpowered.

 

[JayJay55]

This is amazing, and you made this by yourself in 1-3 weeks? I like this hack because it makes Ridley look presentable. There was another Ridley PSA on BrawlVault (Not gonna say who it was made by because my opinions on it are quite toxic) that looks pretty stupid. This proves that Ridley is NOT too big and that he can be made to look at a presentable size depending on who is doing it and if they do it right. I support this all the way because I feel Ridley has no shot at getting in Smash 4 at this point due to the file text dump from the 3DS version (could be shooting my self in the foot and could have a dual role of boss and playable character) and I'd like to see a move-set that feels unique and feels like I'm playing as Ridley (and still look presentable). If I recall, the inspiration of his move-set is coming from Super Smash Bros. Crusade Ridley, correct? Can't say I've played that fan game, but I'd like to see what you can do to improve upon his move-set through this PSA hack.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

This is amazing, and you made this by yourself in 1-3 weeks? I like this hack because it makes Ridley look presentable. There was another Ridley PSA on BrawlVault (Not gonna say who it was made by because my opinions on it are quite toxic) that looks pretty stupid. This proves that Ridley is NOT too big and that he can be made to look at a presentable size depending on who is doing it and if they do it right. I support this all the way because I feel Ridley has no shot at getting in Smash 4 at this point due to the file text dump from the 3DS version (could be shooting my self in the foot and could have a dual role of boss and playable character) and I'd like to see a move-set that feels unique and feels like I'm playing as Ridley (and still look presentable). If I recall, the inspiration of his move-set is coming from Super Smash Bros. Crusade Ridley, correct? Can't say I've played that fan game, but I'd like to see what you can do to improve upon his move-set through this PSA hack.

Yes, 1-3 weeks. I think Ridley has no shot at being playable this time too, but not because of that.
One of that hack's creators is helping me with this hack...He said that they originally wanted to use Meta Ridley's Brawl model (not import hack), but he got bored when making animations.
Yes, it is inspired by that moveset, but i plan on making it different. For now, there is not much major differences.

Glide can be canceled with B and here is Ridley's Ground Final Smash:
http://www.4shared.com/video/KSANFtbSce/bandicam_2014-09-28_22-21-03-1.html
Knockback isn't that high and explosion is higher in current version. He doesn't turns to the right side anymore. This video is a bit outdated, but not enough to make it unusable. Also, previous video i posted got 13542 views and that is only its 4shared version! Wow, didn't expected it to go that far.

 

[0RLY]

Ganondorf is 7.6 i think. He is at least 1.6x bigger than Link while Ridley is 2x bigger than Samus, so, they are close in size. I just don't feel its right to have Ridley bigger than Bowser. At least not by much.

Bigger? No. Taller, yes. Compromise for at least head level...?

Spoiler

I was talking about vertical range and i stretch his tail in few animations, so, horizontal range isn't an issue unless its not about tail. Also, which attack exactly was shown in that video? I can't watch youtube videos for some reasons.

http://gfycat.com/GiftedQuarrelsomeAmethystgemclam
Shown: grab+fire breath, tail swing for fair, tail stab for dair

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Bigger? No. Taller, yes. Compromise for at least head level...?

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/GiftedQuarrelsomeAmethystgemclam
Shown: grab+fire breath, tail swing for fair, tail stab for dair

Taller? TALLER?! BIGGER!

While Ridley is this big:

Spoiler

He is oversized in Brawl compared to Super Metroid version, which that design is based off.
Yeah, Ridley is bigger than Ganondorf, but not by much. Also, if Ridley will be even bigger than Bowser, he will be very easy to hit and it is Bowser's biggest disadvantage that makes him very bad character (not the main reason why he is bad, but it is important to that).

I could use that grab+fire for Up B instead of just slash>glide, giving Ridley a better vertical recovery if hits, but poor one if misses while still having great horizontal recovery. That tail swing for FAir doesn't looks much different from just flying pose while tail stab is already used.

 

[Crainy]

The only animation that I really dislike so far is the spinning attack seen at 01:29 in this video you posted (I think the move at 1:03 is the same one?): http://www.4shared.com/video/U87rTI1Fba/bandicam_2014-09-23_14-06-17-9.html

I guess that might be his neutral air? Anyways, I think it looks very uncomfortable and doesnt seem like an attack that Ridley would really do. Also, having a character spin so aggressively away from/towards the camera in a 2D fighting game always looks alittle weird and is very hard to read when it comes to silhouette. I think its also too elaborate of a movement for such a short animation time, which makes it look way too fast and kind of cut of. Maybe have a bite or a slash or something here instead? Besides, Ridley seems to already have enough spins and twists (I have to agree with ORLY that he seems to be spinning just abit too much as of now), so I think a simpler, more easily readable animation would fit alot better here.

 

[seamus92]

This along with the Dark Samus for P:M mod are showing Metroid the love Smash 4 didn't.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

The only animation that I really dislike so far is the spinning attack seen at 01:29 in this video you posted (I think the move at 1:03 is the same one?): http://www.4shared.com/video/U87rTI1Fba/bandicam_2014-09-23_14-06-17-9.html

I guess that might be his neutral air? Anyways, I think it looks very uncomfortable and doesnt seem like an attack that Ridley would really do. Also, having a character spin so aggressively away from/towards the camera in a 2D fighting game always looks alittle weird and is very hard to read when it comes to silhouette. I think its also too elaborate of a movement for such a short animation time, which makes it look way too fast and kind of cut of. Maybe have a bite or a slash or something here instead? Besides, Ridley seems to already have enough spins and twists (I have to agree with ORLY that he seems to be spinning just abit too much as of now), so I think a simpler, more easily readable animation would fit alot better here.

I don't think there is any other attack that could replace it that isn't some kind of a kick (which Ridley would never use) or spinning anyway (like either MK's or Charizard's NAir) that would have enough range to not be useless. It looks like that because video isn't going 60fps and lags a lot. I will try to find something that could replace it. Otherwise, it will remain untouched.

This along with the Dark Samus for P:M mod are showing Metroid the love Smash 4 didn't.

Neither Brawl did. Adding both would be too much in Brawl of course.

 

[PikaSamus]

This looks amazing.

 

[Espi]

You should definitely make it a separate slot.

 

[theTRUEchamp]

Seamus92, what Dark Samus mod would you be referring to?

 

[soopercool101]

This along with the Dark Samus for P:M mod are showing Metroid the love Smash 4 didn't.

And what Dark Samus mod would this be?!?!?

 

[seamus92]

And what Dark Samus mod would this be?!?!?

Look up Dark Samus PSA Heavy Metroid Prime 2 Influence
I can't post links yet sadly.

 

[soopercool101]

Look up Dark Samus PSA Heavy Metroid Prime 2 Influence
I can't post links yet sadly.

I found the thread you're talking about, can't find anything that says it's for Project M though...

 

[0RLY]

He is oversized in Brawl compared to Super Metroid version, which that design is based off.
Yeah, Ridley is bigger than Ganondorf, but not by much. Also, if Ridley will be even bigger than Bowser, he will be very easy to hit and it is Bowser's biggest disadvantage that makes him very bad character (not the main reason why he is bad, but it is important to that).

You win this time! *shakes fist* I'm all for having Ridley being as good as possible! c:

I could use that grab+fire for Up B instead of just slash>glide, giving Ridley a better vertical recovery if hits, but poor one if misses while still having great horizontal recovery. That tail swing for FAir doesn't looks much different from just flying pose while tail stab is already used.

• I don't think that grab+fire would be very good for up-b. It would be nicer on an actual grab+throw. With flight on uthrow and without for dthrow or bthrow. His current fthrow is sweet. :D For the up-b, it would please me if Ridley at least somersaulted in a rollercoaster loop instead of the oval he flies in right now. It's more aerodynamic and reduces g-forces... which is important. I think.
• Hm, I can see why the fair not looking much different from normal flying could be problematic. Perhaps have him lean into it, like how Charizard performs his fair? http://smashboards.com/writer/khanye/CharizardFair.gif
  
• The tail stab is excellent. It's just that it animates with him turning completely 90 degrees, performing, and turning back. The move should be performed while turning a little into it, like say 45 degrees, then turning back, and finish performing.

The only animation that I really dislike so far is the spinning attack seen at 01:29 in this video you posted (I think the move at 1:03 is the same one?): http://www.4shared.com/video/U87rTI1Fba/bandicam_2014-09-23_14-06-17-9.html

I guess that might be his neutral air? Anyways, I think it looks very uncomfortable and doesnt seem like an attack that Ridley would really do. Also, having a character spin so aggressively away from/towards the camera in a 2D fighting game always looks alittle weird and is very hard to read when it comes to silhouette. I think its also too elaborate of a movement for such a short animation time, which makes it look way too fast and kind of cut off. Maybe have a bite or a slash or something here instead? Besides, Ridley seems to already have enough spins and twists (I have to agree with ORLY that he seems to be spinning just abit too much as of now), so I think a simpler, more easily readable animation would fit alot better here.

While I do think Ridley spins too much, I feel that nair (and dsmash) is the most appropriate time for Ridley to spin. Since nair/dsmash animations are similar, they should also spin at the same speed. As for animation speed, it looks perfect to me. Bowser, Pikachu, Wolf, etc. all spin MUCH faster than this for their nairs. Wolf especially with his 4 frames per revolution nair! I'm no expert on the other stuff you mentioned here so I can't offer much more.

For some ideas

• Have Ridley turn to face the camera as he covers his face with his wings, then quickly extending them horizontally with a hitbox. I'm picturing it would be most similar in functionality to G&W's nair. Pros: this might cover a similar amount of space compared to his current nair, maybe more. Cons: there would likely be more startup lag on a move like this.
• Have Ridley do the same animation as above, but have him face forward as usual. Wings cover his face from forward and below, then extend back behind and above him. This would cover less space, but it could have hitboxes as his wings move forward and when the move back to where they started. Kinda like Marth's nair.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

You win this time! *shakes fist* I'm all for having Ridley being as good as possible! c:

• I don't think that grab+fire would be very good for up-b. It would be nicer on an actual grab+throw. With flight on uthrow and without for dthrow or bthrow. His current fthrow is sweet. :D For the up-b, it would please me if Ridley at least somersaulted in a rollercoaster loop instead of the oval he flies in right now. It's more aerodynamic and reduces g-forces... which is important. I think.
• Hm, I can see why the fair not looking much different from normal flying could be problematic. Perhaps have him lean into it, like how Charizard performs his fair? http://smashboards.com/writer/khanye/CharizardFair.gif
  
• The tail stab is excellent. It's just that it animates with him turning completely 90 degrees, performing, and turning back. The move should be performed while turning a little into it, like say 45 degrees, then turning back, and finish performing.

I won't completly replace that Up B. It will be exactly same, but Ridley will be able to grab someone if he hits someone during loop start. And wouldn't 2nd grab that uses fire be redundant? Like if Charizard would have 2 throws like his DThrow or if Bowser would use his shell spikes in more than 1 throw? Also, Up Throw is part of his Super Metroid boss battle and while not as iconic as pogo stick tail, it is something i can't leave out.
How would that somersault look like?
...You know what, i will replace FAir. With something similar to that attack and Meta Knight's FAir (multiple tail strikes with last one dealing actual knockback). That would make it more balanced (meteor smash/spike sweetspot in current version is easy to hit with, so, it is very easy to just knock someone off the stage and then use FAir and its done) and more unique.
I already edited animation to remove that turning away/to the camera part during DAir. I will also try to add pogo effect similar to Link's when he hits someone and maybe just when he lands if it is possible.

While I do think Ridley spins too much, I feel that nair (and dsmash) is the most appropriate time for Ridley to spin. Since nair/dsmash animations are similar, they should also spin at the same speed. As for animation speed, it looks perfect to me. Bowser, Pikachu, Wolf, etc. all spin MUCH faster than this for their nairs. Wolf especially with his 4 frames per revolution nair! I'm no expert on the other stuff you mentioned here so I can't offer much more.

For some ideas

• Have Ridley turn to face the camera as he covers his face with his wings, then quickly extending them horizontally with a hitbox. I'm picturing it would be most similar in functionality to G&W's nair. Pros: this might cover a similar amount of space compared to his current nair, maybe more. Cons: there would likely be more startup lag on a move like this.
• Have Ridley do the same animation as above, but have him face forward as usual. Wings cover his face from forward and below, then extend back behind and above him. This would cover less space, but it could have hitboxes as his wings move forward and when the move back to where they started. Kinda like Marth's nair.

I decided to leave NAir as it is.

I may upload next video this sunday if i will finish some stuff. I will show all of the stuff currently done in it, including glide, throws, Final Smash, etc. Everything except for item and get hit animations.

 

[0RLY]

I won't completely replace that Up B. It will be exactly same, but Ridley will be able to grab someone if he hits someone during loop start.

I didn't even think of that! That would be sweet, as long as Ridley can still do stuff afterwards!

And wouldn't 2nd grab that uses fire be redundant? Like if Charizard would have 2 throws like his DThrow or if Bowser would use his shell spikes in more than 1 throw? Also, Up Throw is part of his Super Metroid boss battle and while not as iconic as pogo stick tail, it is something i can't leave out.

You're right. I played through Super Metroid quite a bit but rarely ever got hit by Ridley so I forgot he had that move. I have Fusion and ZM fresher in my memory. For dthrow though, it looks weird when Ridley turns his head towards the z-axis to spit fire but launches the xy plane. If Ridley is going to turn is his head, it should be complete 180 so it launches in the direction his head is pointing.

How would that somersault look like?

It's like an upside-down teardrop shape. Ridley currently up-b's in a fat bagel shape.

...You know what, i will replace FAir. With something similar to that attack and Meta Knight's FAir (multiple tail strikes with last one dealing actual knockback). That would make it more balanced (meteor smash/spike sweetspot in current version is easy to hit with, so, it is very easy to just knock someone off the stage and then use FAir and its done) and more unique.

Sounds interesting. Big characters tend to not have multi hits, aside from drills. I won't judge until I've seen it.

I already edited animation to remove that turning away/to the camera part during DAir. I will also try to add pogo effect similar to Link's when he hits someone and maybe just when he lands if it is possible.
I decided to leave NAir as it is.

Sounds great!

 

[Crainy]

If you replace the FAir, maybe make the current FAir his natural air? Cause I think his FAir currently looks alot more visually pleasing than his NAir (imo) and he would still spin this way during his Nair.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I didn't even think of that! That would be sweet, as long as Ridley can still do stuff afterwards!

He will be able to use Up B (and maybe jumps) again if he will grab someone, like Ganondorf after his Up B, and will move up while holding someone. If he fails to grab anyone, he will go into glide.

You're right. I played through Super Metroid quite a bit but rarely ever got hit by Ridley so I forgot he had that move. I have Fusion and ZM fresher in my memory. For dthrow though, it looks weird when Ridley turns his head towards the z-axis to spit fire but launches the xy plane. If Ridley is going to turn is his head, it should be complete 180 so it launches in the direction his head is pointing.

I will try to do that. Also, there is more throws like that that would knock opponents into direction they are facing, not to the side like Kirby's, Charizard's and Meta Knigh's Down Throws.

It's like an upside-down teardrop shape. Ridley currently up-b's in a fat bagel shape.

Like MK's, but back a lot less?

If you replace the FAir, maybe make the current FAir his natural air? Cause I think his FAir currently looks alot more visually pleasing than his NAir (imo) and he would still spin this way during his Nair.

Current FAir is too similar to Charizard's NAir (just with different trajectory, damage values and sweetspot), so, moving it no NAir will make it even more similar. I will edit current NAir a bit to make it look like one of Omega Ridley's attack (that attack during which he shoots beams out of his tail and mouth at once) to make it something that Ridley actually used (without tail beam and with shorter fire breath range of course), but animation will stay nearly same.

 

[0RLY]

Eh, MK's up b goes up much higher than a teardrop shape. His is more like Marth's. Plus, you were trying to reduce the height of it. Perhaps the loop could move in an arc that makes it viable to edge cancel on bf or ps2's platforms.

 

[Crainy]

Current FAir is too similar to Charizard's NAir (just with different trajectory, damage values and sweetspot), so, moving it no NAir will make it even more similar. I will edit current NAir a bit to make it look like one of Omega Ridley's attack (that attack during which he shoots beams out of his tail and mouth at once) to make it something that Ridley actually used (without tail beam and with shorter fire breath range of course), but animation will stay nearly same.

Heres how I see it, first of all, I understand if you dont want to change it but hear me out:

First of all, I dont think its a huge problem that it looks similar to Charizard´s NAir. Alot of characters have very similar NAirs, just because there arent alot of great options of what you can do with that attack. And to be honest, I always thought Charizards NAir looks like a very Ridleyesque attack, probably because the attack has a prominent use of his tail. So I dont think this is an issue.

However, another thing I need to point out about the current Nair is that it looks very similar to your back air and down smash attack (I think thats the down smash where he spins on the ground?). So you currently have 3 attacks that look pretty similar, which I think raises several problems: First of all, it makes the entire moveset hard to really get a feel for, its important for the player and the opponent to see exactly what attacks are going down without really needing to look. The second problem that it raises is that this spin attack doesnt have a great silhouette to begin with, its basically just a blob. Silhouette is important for readability in every kind of game, expecially fighting games. Having one or two attacks that arent perfectly readable is fine, but three is abit much, expecially if they look very similar.

Another problem this raises is that it makes the moveset seem abit repetitive, which I think might be an even larger issue than the readability issue.

So I think having an attack that is abit similar to another characters attack isnt a huge tradeoff (expecially if the attack fits the character in question very well to begin with) when you look at the benefits: A more readable NAir and a more diverse moveset with more easily distinguishable attacks.

And if you look at other characters, there are alot of characters that share similar moves, like for example both Sonic and Samus have that wannabe Falcon Kick attack and there are several characters that spin in a similar fashion for their NAir, so I dont think its a shame to trade a more unique Nair for one that might fair better in all other categories.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Heres how I see it, first of all, I understand if you dont want to change it but hear me out:

First of all, I dont think its a huge problem that it looks similar to Charizard´s NAir. Alot of characters have very similar NAirs, just because there arent alot of great options of what you can do with that attack. And to be honest, I always thought Charizards NAir looks like a very Ridleyesque attack, probably because the attack has a prominent use of his tail. So I dont think this is an issue.

However, another thing I need to point out about the current Nair is that it looks very similar to your back air and down smash attack (I think thats the down smash where he spins on the ground?). So you currently have 3 attacks that look pretty similar, which I think raises several problems: First of all, it makes the entire moveset hard to really get a feel for, its important for the player and the opponent to see exactly what attacks are going down without really needing to look. The second problem that it raises is that this spin attack doesnt have a great silhouette to begin with, its basically just a blob. Silhouette is important for readability in every kind of game, expecially fighting games. Having one or two attacks that arent perfectly readable is fine, but three is abit much, expecially if they look very similar.

Another problem this raises is that it makes the moveset seem abit repetitive, which I think might be an even larger issue than the readability issue.

So I think having an attack that is abit similar to another characters attack isnt a huge tradeoff (expecially if the attack fits the character in question very well to begin with) when you look at the benefits: A more readable NAir and a more diverse moveset with more easily distinguishable attacks.

And if you look at other characters, there are alot of characters that share similar moves, like for example both Sonic and Samus have that wannabe Falcon Kick attack and there are several characters that spin in a similar fashion for their NAir, so I dont think its a shame to trade a more unique Nair for one that might fair better in all other categories.

You have a point. Very well then, his FAir was more effective anyway. I just need to reduce sweetspot knockback a bit. And BAir looks more like AAA and Side A than Down Smash. It doesn't fully spins.

 

[0RLY]

Ridley's bairs are pretty limited. They pretty much have to be a tail swing of some sort. So that leaves us with a Zard-like bair, his current one. Or a M2-like bair, flicking his tail up. I would try a N64 Samus-like bair. Having Ridley flick his tail downwards. It's kinda like PM Lucas bair, minus the spiking part.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

this is looking great! i cant wait to see the final product. only question i have is.. why did you decide to shrink his wings? Riddly is kiinda supposed to have giant wings.

 

[Crainy]

Ridley's bairs are pretty limited. They pretty much have to be a tail swing of some sort. So that leaves us with a Zard-like bair, his current one. Or a M2-like bair, flicking his tail up. I would try a N64 Samus-like bair. Having Ridley flick his tail downwards. It's kinda like PM Lucas bair, minus the spiking part.

Whats wrong with the current BAir? I think its decent enough.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

this is looking great! i cant wait to see the final product. only question i have is.. why did you decide to shrink his wings? Riddly is kiinda supposed to have giant wings.

Um...

Spoiler: Original model, untouched

Spoiler: My model

Whoops, i leaked extra WIP Other M texture that may not be used...oh well...

They are still giant. I am against resizing them, but im trying to make sure they don't clip through platforms above too much in too many animations.

I finished next video showing stuff done since previous video like Up B, throws, Down B graphical changes, Final Smash (ground and aerial versions), jab combo fix, new FAir, etc. It will soon be uploaded. Not on my channel since i can't access youtube for whatever reasons since who knows when.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Ahh ok cool. That makes sense.
Are they just properly attached to bones? I brought this up cause early on I saw some drawings of his wings being smaller, but I didn't see the end product of that.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Ahh ok cool. That makes sense.
Are they just properly attached to bones? I brought this up cause early on I saw some drawings of his wings being smaller, but I didn't see the end product of that.

I think they just look bigger when not folded up.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

ya could be!

i have a few questions and possibly a suggestion (if you take suggestions)..

1. so first of all im guessing the one projectile you're using is coming from KingOfChaos' chirzard hack using links arrows?

If so, one suggestion i have for that is (if you can make this work) could you make it so riddly can shoot lets say 4 or 5 arrows almost back to back (like 30-60 frames or so apart) by tapping b repeatedly. Obviously if you stop tapping b he stops shooting the projectiles and goes back to his wait animation. Now the tricky part.. if you do this i was thinking it would be cool to give each fired projectile a different trajectory, and to do this (if possible) you could make the first one he shoots fire at a fully charged arrow shot, and then the 2nd 3rd 4th etc. projectiles can be less and less charged (so the arcs of the trajectories are reduced with each fired arrow/fireball)? this way it will be kind of mimicking his fireball attack in his boss battles with samus. Does this make any sense? Let me know what you think/if you need me to explain it better.

2. My other question is are you using the same projectile (links arrow article) as the areal version of this attack or what? I couldnt tell from your video.

Either way for the air version i was thinking perhaps a similar attack, and while using this attack he could float in place. If you have other specific plans for this could you explain a bit so i can see what you're planning on doing (jsut cause i'm curious )

3. For the charged fireball attack, I'm thinking a couple of things. First of all i'm assuming that its attached to the throwN bone?

I dont know about you, but throwN bone projectiles bother me Mainly because they cant be reflected properly. I'm thinking perhaps the charge attack could be a beam of fire/plasma beam. So basically the longer you charge the attack the longer the beam would last, and it would be a damaging attack like bowsers fire, not a KO attack. The only problem with this is it would kinda be based more on meta riddly, and i dont know if you want to do something like that.

4. this is just a separate suggestion which i think would be cool for riddly.. im picturing some kind of attack with him swooping up into the air and then gliding for a period and either shooting a beam of fire or firing 4-5 projectiles toward the ground. Dont know how well it would work in game, but i think its worth talking about something like this. I think it would be doable to create, just a tad difficult to troubleshoot lol.

anyway let me know what you think, and let me know if you need me to further elaborate on anything.. you can PM me too if you want. If you need a hand with anything i may be able to help with some stuff. I'm not a super pro, but i may be able to work on some things. I really wana see a good riddly hack so i cant wait to see this finished!

 

[BaganSmashBros]

ya could be!

i have a few questions and possibly a suggestion (if you take suggestions)..

1. so first of all im guessing the one projectile you're using is coming from KingOfChaos' chirzard hack using links arrows?

If so, one suggestion i have for that is (if you can make this work) could you make it so riddly can shoot lets say 4 or 5 arrows almost back to back (like 30-60 frames or so apart) by tapping b repeatedly. Obviously if you stop tapping b he stops shooting the projectiles and goes back to his wait animation. Now the tricky part.. if you do this i was thinking it would be cool to give each fired projectile a different trajectory, and to do this (if possible) you could make the first one he shoots fire at a fully charged arrow shot, and then the 2nd 3rd 4th etc. projectiles can be less and less charged (so the arcs of the trajectories are reduced with each fired arrow/fireball)? this way it will be kind of mimicking his fireball attack in his boss battles with samus. Does this make any sense? Let me know what you think/if you need me to explain it better.

2. My other question is are you using the same projectile (links arrow article) as the areal version of this attack or what? I couldnt tell from your video.

Either way for the air version i was thinking perhaps a similar attack, and while using this attack he could float in place. If you have other specific plans for this could you explain a bit so i can see what you're planning on doing (jsut cause i'm curious )

3. For the charged fireball attack, I'm thinking a couple of things. First of all i'm assuming that its attached to the throwN bone?

I dont know about you, but throwN bone projectiles bother me Mainly because they cant be reflected properly. I'm thinking perhaps the charge attack could be a beam of fire/plasma beam. So basically the longer you charge the attack the longer the beam would last, and it would be a damaging attack like bowsers fire, not a KO attack. The only problem with this is it would kinda be based more on meta riddly, and i dont know if you want to do something like that.

4. this is just a separate suggestion which i think would be cool for riddly.. im picturing some kind of attack with him swooping up into the air and then gliding for a period and either shooting a beam of fire or firing 4-5 projectiles toward the ground. Dont know how well it would work in game, but i think its worth talking about something like this. I think it would be doable to create, just a tad difficult to troubleshoot lol.

anyway let me know what you think, and let me know if you need me to further elaborate on anything.. you can PM me too if you want. If you need a hand with anything i may be able to help with some stuff. I'm not a super pro, but i may be able to work on some things. I really wana see a good riddly hack so i cant wait to see this finished!

1. Projectiles he is using are fake projectiles and don't use articles. It isn't possible to make them go in slightly different directions. This hack is not using KingOfChaos' Charizard anyhow. The only hack i ever used for it is Carnage's Ridley PSA.
2. It is same and i will just make it start faster since its hard to use it in the air without landing quickly.
3. It can't be reflected anyway, like some of the projectiles in the game. Plasma beam could work better for Final Smash, but i had issues with beam itself that made it look really bad and i don't know how to fix that. Neither can Carnage.
4. It is kinda already done except for the last part. I don't think i can make that last part work without having to replace glide attack and without using fake projectiles that unfortunately won't explode when touching the ground.

Anyway, here is video:
http://www.4shared.com/file/j_hyIQQCce/SSBB_Project_M_Ridley_PSA_by_B.html
It shows stuff changed since previous video and new stuff too. Sorry for the awkward transition. Description avalable this time.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

1. you may wana look at KingOfChaos' chirzard. he gave him real projectiles for his fireballs. that may be a better option for you.. have you seen what im talking about? I dunno, maybe you dont like the idea

3. I was thinking for a plasma beam you could import lucarios aura storm gfx or samus' super beam gfx and make them red instead of blue. That may look better for you.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

1. you may wana look at KingOfChaos' chirzard. he gave him real projectiles for his fireballs. that may be a better option for you.. have you seen what im talking about? I dunno, maybe you dont like the idea

3. I was thinking for a plasma beam you could import lucarios aura storm gfx or samus' super beam gfx and make them red instead of blue. That may look better for you.

KingOfChaos? I saw only KingOfDreamland's Solo Charizard. I will search for him then.
3. I tried both Mewtwo's and Lucario's. I failed.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

KingOfChaos? I saw only KingOfDreamland's Solo Charizard. I will search for him then.
3. I tried both Mewtwo's and Lucario's. I failed.

Ah ok kingofdreamland is kingofchaos, he keeps changing his damn screen name lol

and that sucks about the beams.. thats weird. It should be doable.

also.. the link doesnt seem to be taking me to a video. theres a bunch of dl links but im not sure what one to click lol

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Ah ok kingofdreamland is kingofchaos, he keeps changing his damn screen name lol

and that sucks about the beams.. thats weird. It should be doable.

also.. the link doesnt seem to be taking me to a video. theres a bunch of dl links but im not sure what one to click lol

Oh, i found that Charizard. I will test him now.

Try again. I fixed that. I messed something up while renaming it, so, i renamed it again back to .avi file.

 

[0RLY]

Whats wrong with the current BAir? I think its decent enough.

The silhouette problem described by Crainy. Also, I like unique moves. I don't want people to see this project and think, "Did this guy just clone zard and fiddle around?"

As for the video... Ridley can't hit a grounded Ganon with utilt? You sure that hitbox matches the animation?

 

[JayJay55]

So what percentage of completion for this hack would you say is done?

How problematic are the wings clipping through platforms? (What I mean by this is, are you close to being able to find some solution to this problem, or are you far from close to being able fix it?)

Are you soon planning to post a video of Ridley being tested out in a legitimate battle rather than training mode?