raul
Smash Lord
I don't normally start threads, but I have been doing a large amount of thinking about how some of the gaming series in Brawl are very under represented in terms of the number of characters and what are some ways to fix this. Let's go straight to arguement.
It's very obvious that the Mario, Pokemon and Legend of Zelda video game series are some of the top series Ninentdo deals with in terms of both popularity, sales, fan base and the quantity and quality of games produced. Some of the best games not only in Nintendo history, but perhaps gaming history come from these gaming series. Without questions they are represented very well. Below is there listing of their current representatives:
*NOTE: ONLY CONFIRMED CHARACTERS ARE LISTED*
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer with 3 pokemon (Charizard, Squirtle, Ivysaur)
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik
Not bad so far. 3 gaming series totalling up for 7 representatives. That currently, as the roster stands as of January 18, 2008, about 30% of the current 25 man roster. Now, yes I did count Zero-Suit Samus and Sheik is different characters when calculating representative numbers and the percents, but I'll explain why later.
The Proposed Problem
Here's the problem I see. While some games are very well represented, and speculated to be further represented, some video game series lack such high numbers of characters. Let's have a look at those series. Again, these are the current characters, confirmed, as of 1/18/2008.
The Metroid Series: Samus, Zero-Suit Samus
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
The Star Fox Series: Fox McCloud
The Fire Emblem Series: Ike
The Mother/Earthbound Series: Lucas
Wow, 5 gaming series only get 7 characters? That's a terrible percentage, 25% for characters, which is 5% representation for each series on average. Clearly, these series need more representation.
Before You Jump Down My Throat...
Yes, I know the entire roster isn't out yet. I realize I have zero clue as to who those other characters are and yes I realize these series will get more characters. I'm not clueless to these facts. Now that I've said that, I'll move to the next part.
Further Representation?
Many forum members, including myself, speculate further character representation for the already well-represented series. Here is what consider a general list.
The Mario Series: Luigi, Geno, Bowser Jr.
The Pokemon Series: MewTwo, Lucario, Jiggly Puff
The Legend of Zelda Series: Ganondorf, Young Link (of some kind), Midna (with or without wolf)
Cleary, some of these characters will return, such as Luigi and Ganondorf. Others are still up in the air. But suppose that we give 5 reps each series for fairness to all these series. Here is what I find to a complete, but speculated general list of these series character representation.
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, Geno
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Jiggly Puff, MewTwo
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link (Of some kind)
Technically, you could swap out any character, but thats not the point. That 15 characters for 3 series, creating a much larger percentage for these series. What about the lesser series?
The speculated characters for the lesser represent series include:
The Metroid Series: Dark Samus, Ridley
The Donkey Kong Series: King K. Rool
The Star Fox Series: Krystal, Falco Lombardi, Wolf O'Donnell
The Fire Emblem Series: Marth, Roy, Miciahia, the Black Knight
You may not totally agree with these lists, but I passed these of Melee and what I saw in terms of popularity and which characters were not likely to be bosses and/or assist trophies. You see the problem? The first thing is that not all these characters will make it and second those that do add to the series total, but still cannot compete with the larger series. Granted these games aren't as popular, but they still have die hard fans and fan bases. These series will remain under-represented even so.
A further problem is what I call the "duplicate character" and it applies to all series. What a duplicate character is in my definition is: A character that has a unique moveset, but is an already existing character in another physical form. They are not clone characters. This is also why i count Zero Suit Samus and Sheik as seperate characters because they may be part of another character but they still are unique in terms of pyhsical appearance and moveset.
Here are examples:
Link----> Wind Waker Link/ Revamped Young Link
Mario---> Paper Mario
Samus--> Zero Suit Samus
Zelda----> Sheik
While these characters are unique as I mentioned, the reality is, they are basically playable alternate costumes. They add no uniqueness to their respected series representation other than movesets. Samus is still Zero Suit Samus minus the suit and Mario is still Paper Mario in 2-D.
Part of the problem I believe we have had with not only these characters, but with the clones in the past where not the clone aspects, but some of the character are/were simply the same character. Young Link is another version of Link and so on. We wanted characters like Pit or Wario who offered totally and complete uniqueness. Thus I fear that this could arise again and I believe Nintendo sees it too.
A Personal Prediction
This predicition was given some thought and I believe that Nintendo and Sakurai may be thinking on the same page. It is all specualtion, but here goes.
My belief is that Nintendo will add not only more representation to those already with high character counts, but also to those with low character counts. The difference is, we will have very unique characters and those series that are under represented will be better represented than they are currently.
My predicition of unqiue characters includes:
*Note this list deals with already listed gaming series and not predicting reps for series not already represented. Example: Issac from Golden Sun will not be on this list since no other Golden Sun rep is listed. Sorry, that means Captain Falcon is NOT debated here either, atleast not yet.
The Mario Series: Luigi, Bowser Jr.
The Legend of Zelda Series: Ganondorf, Midna (With Wolf)
The Pokemon Series: Lucario/MewTwo/Jiggly Puff (2 of the 3)
The Star Fox Series: Krystal, Wolf/Falco (one or the other)
The Metroid Series: Ridley and Dark Samus--slightly lesser chance than Ridley, but still high
The Fire Emblem Series: Micahia, Marth
The Donkey Kong Series: King K.Rool
The Mother/Earthbound Series: Claus
*NOTE*-This list concerns Playable Characters Only.
Why Come? An Explanation of the Prediciton
You may want to know how I came about these particular characters. Well here is my answer. I didn't use fan base or personal bias or "clues" hidden in the updates. It is all pure speculation and comparison to the characters we already have now.
Basically, all these character reflect the major players from the their respected gaming series that:
1.) Have not currently been deconfirmed via Assist Trophy or in a similar way
2.) Are a major character in their respect series
3.) Do not follow into what I define a duplicate character
4.) Have no clone aspects
5.) If I forgot anything, I'll add it later
Now I'll answer some questons I know you're going to ask.
Why Bowser Jr. over Geno ?
Well, I know not everyone will agree, but Bowser Jr. is a character that has recently been involved alot more in the Mario universe. He's been the final boss in many games and he's made various appearance in such games as Mario Party, Mario Strikers and so forth. He is new to young gamers and has the ability to have a very unique moveset from Bowser.
Geno is a well known character with great potential and has one more thing going for him: He's not a koopa. While Geno hasn't been in a game in while, Geno doesn't give the impression that he's Bowser, or any other character in a different form. He is kind of like a retro character, but he isn't a major player outside of Mario RPG.
This is a difficult arguement. Do you go with the current Bowser Jr? Or dip into the past with Geno?
My prediction is Bowser Jr, because as time moves on, I could see him some day replacing Bowser as the main villain of the Mario series, much like Andross was replaced by other villains in the Star Fox series.
Why Ridley over Dark Samus?
Simply put, Dark Samus gives us too much Samus in the game. With a suit, without a suit, a dark suit, how many versions of Samus do we need? Ridley is the only logical choice left and he can actually fit on the stage compared to Kraid. If we had 3 versions of Samus as the only 3 reps for Metroid, we're doing the series a great injustice.
Dark Samus is a great character, but there are other character outside of Samus and her multiple forms. I'd argue on the half of the hunters, but I feel strongly they will be assist trophies. They arent a major player like Ridley, whose been a villain in plenty of the Metroid games. This character's chances are high, but not as high as Ridley's.
While many forum members think that Dark Samus would make a perfect representative for the Metroid series, I do not. However, I would loved to be proved wrong and have both Ridley and Dark Samus make the game. Until then, I remain skeptical. I will not deny Dark Samus has a great chance, but I remain unsure as to where Metroid will go from minimal representation to large representation even with Sakurai's desire to include more Metroid characters. One would think he could do it, but Sakurai has not always been predictable so we'll have to wait and see.
Why Midna over Wind Waker Link?
This one was difficult but Midna over any version of WWLink/Young Link makes sense. We already have Link, do we need to seem cell-shaded or younger? Plus, it seems that the Twilight Princess appeal has gotten into all current graphics of the Legend of Zelda characters that have been confirmed. It will only be a matter of time before we get a character from that game. Midna also possesses possibly one of the most unique move sets in Brawl if she makes it in.
The Fire Emblem Issue
The Fire Emblem series is a vast gaming franchise with tons of potential reps. However, when it comes to Brawl, not everyone will make it. Obviosuly Micahiah brings a new feel not only as a playable character, but also shows the magic user side of Fire Emblem for the fans of Brawl unfamiliar with the series.
The issue is Marth and Roy. I'll admit right now my knowledge is limited but Marth seems worthy of coming back because of his popularity in both Japan and America and he is one of the first lords, if im not mistaken. But does he really belong there? Does Roy belong?
If you look at Ike, he has taken parts of Roy and Marth into his moveset. It seems the best of both Marth and Roy are within Ike with a few changes. Compare Ness to Lucas. Lucas basically has Ness's moves and Ike seems to appear in a similar fashion. However, for clarification purposes, Ike does not play like Marth or Roy, but some of the similiar aspects of the two when it comes to his move set. His eruption attack is nearly identical to Roy's flare move, and like both Marth and Roy, his up-B move is very similiar to theirs as well, minus virtually any horizontal movement and the much nicer finish at the end. He does have his own differences, but the similiarities are there and that cannot be denied.
None the less if Marth and Roy arent there, who will be? I've been well informed that the Black Knight is too minor of a character, but who then? Hector? Sigurd? Someone else?
I chose Marth because he is a reoccuring lord in both Fire Emblem 1 and 3, while I am unaware of any other reoocuring lords. He is popular in both America and Japan and was a top tier character that Sakurai might want to keep.
I speculate Roy is gone, mainly because forum members that specialize in Fire Emblem explained to me that Roy was in a very unsuccessful game and that his appearance in Melee was a mere advertisement. Makes sense to me, since I have no real knowledge about Roy or his popularity or the game he appeared in.
Right now it seem Ike, Marth and Micahiah are logical choices to represent Brawl. My only concern would be if Nintendo wanted to do like they did with the Mother/Earthbound games and use the newer characters. They have Ike, so why not use newer Fire Emblem characters and leave out Marth and Roy?
And Marth has one major thing going for him and that is the for mentioned huge popularity. Marth probably isn't going anywhere. Compare that to Ness, who has been on the replacement list since Melee.
I'm very unsure on this issue. Perhaps time will tell.
All the Pokemon
Yeah I hate pokemon, but more are going to come. Probably why that bothers me so much is because I look at Pokemon Trainer and see 3 more pokemon.
Lucario is the issue because he is a 4th generation pokemon which people say Sakurai wants more of, but I am skeptical on that. If you add Lucario, you figure to lose MewTwo because of his awkward controls. Then again, Lucario and MewTwo are more involved in Pokemon in terms of movies than Jiggly Puff who has lost some popularity.
Overall, there are too many pokemon, much like there will be too many Mario characters, but I don't see them being excluded from Brawl.
King of the Scrapheap?
King K. Rool is the only logical character left for Donkey Kong. I'm sure many agree, unless you want ANOTHER ape of some kind as a character, than I guess I'm not going to debate this any further.
Unless there is a significant character I missed, I dont see anyone standing in the way of K.Rool.
Unmasking Claus and Burying Ness
Again, to me, this seems obvious, but Claus, much like K. Rool, is really perhaps the only character of importance left in the series.
Many clamour for Ness, but don't make any bets. Ness has no move set now and with clones seeming less and less of an option every day, thats all Ness would be if he returned.
My knowledge is limited on Earthbound, so please correct me if I missed something big.
However, from what I do know, Ness is just about 6 feet under. Let's look at the fact:
1.) Sakurai has been awaiting the day to replace him and
2.) If no clones are goin got be in Brawl, then what are Ness's' moves?
3.) Lucas's has way more sex appeal...PERIOD.
Comparing Lucas to Ness so far we have:
Lucas's Moveset:
1.) Pk Thunder
2.) Pk Fire
3.) PSI Magnet
Ness's Moveset:
1.) Pk Thunder
2.) Pk Fire
3.) PSI Magnet
Hmmmmm.......??? Looks like Ness still has a baseball bat and yo-yo.....and Pk Flash. Wow, awesome moveset Ness. The fact that Nintendo has wanted to replace him since Melee should be enough for those who believe he will return. But some still hang on in denial.
No new representation for Wario and Yoshi?
Yes and sorry. Part of it because of this question:
Can you name a character in either series that is one same scale of popularity as Waro or Yoshi? I can't and I don't think you can either.
The second part is rather personal, but yes, Yoshi and Wario are their own series, but to myself and MAYBE others, they are very closely linked with the Mario world. In fact they have crossed paths many times. Wario and Yoshi are Mario-eque characters, regardless of their own icons or gaming series and what we do not need is anymore Mario representation in any way.
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A History of Representation
Here is a look at the history of gaming franchises that I've discussed and how they have been represented in the past and currently. Numbers in ( ) equal number of character in that series and % equal the percent that the series takes up in the total roster. Percents are rounded. The "New Series Percentrage" reflects the number of new gaming franchises represented in that Smash Brothers game from the last game.
Nintendo 64:
The Mario Series: Mario, Luigi (2)-16%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Jiggly Puff (2)-16%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link (1)-8.3%
The Star Fox Series: Fox McCloud (1)-8.3%
The Metroid Series: Samus (1)-8.3%
The Kirby Series: Kirby (1)-8.3%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong (1)-8.3%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-8.3%
The F-Zero Series: Captain Falcon (1)-8.3%
The Earthbound Series: Ness (1)-8.3%
Melee:
New Series Percentage: About 23%
The Mario Series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario (5)-20%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pichu, Jiggly Puff, MewTwo (4)-16%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link (5)-20%
The Star Fox Series: Fox, Falco (2)-8%
The Metroid Series: Samus (1)-4%
The Kirby Series: Kirby (1)-4%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong (1)-4%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-4%
The F-Zero Series: Captain Falcon (1)-4%
The Earthbound Series: Ness (1)-4%
The Ice Climber Series: Ice Climbers (1)-4%
The G & W Series: Game & Watch (1)-4%
The Fire Emblem Series: Marth, Roy (2)-8%
Current Brawl Roster:
New Series Percentage: About 31%
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser (3)-12%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (2)-8%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik (3)-12%
The Star Fox Series: Fox (1)-4%
The Metroid Series: Samus, Zero Suit Samus (2)-8%
The Kirby Series: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede (3)-12%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong (2)-8%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-4%
The Ice Climbers Series: Ice Climbers (1)-4%
The Mother Series: Lucas (1)-4%
The Fire Emblem Series: Ike (1)-4%
Additional Series in Brawl Include:
Sonic the Hedgehog (Sonic, 1)-4%
Metal Gear Solid (Snake, 1)-4%
Kid Icarus (Pit, 1)-4%
Pikmin (Captain Olimar, 1)-4%
Wario (Wario, 1)-4%
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I want you guys to know this isn't a character prediction thread, but a theory of what I believe to come. So don't send me suggestion for characters, this isn't a thread like Wise Guy's or Chronobound's or Homeless Vagrant's.
Feel free to disagree, ask questions, make suggestions, and such.
It's very obvious that the Mario, Pokemon and Legend of Zelda video game series are some of the top series Ninentdo deals with in terms of both popularity, sales, fan base and the quantity and quality of games produced. Some of the best games not only in Nintendo history, but perhaps gaming history come from these gaming series. Without questions they are represented very well. Below is there listing of their current representatives:
*NOTE: ONLY CONFIRMED CHARACTERS ARE LISTED*
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer with 3 pokemon (Charizard, Squirtle, Ivysaur)
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik
Not bad so far. 3 gaming series totalling up for 7 representatives. That currently, as the roster stands as of January 18, 2008, about 30% of the current 25 man roster. Now, yes I did count Zero-Suit Samus and Sheik is different characters when calculating representative numbers and the percents, but I'll explain why later.
The Proposed Problem
Here's the problem I see. While some games are very well represented, and speculated to be further represented, some video game series lack such high numbers of characters. Let's have a look at those series. Again, these are the current characters, confirmed, as of 1/18/2008.
The Metroid Series: Samus, Zero-Suit Samus
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
The Star Fox Series: Fox McCloud
The Fire Emblem Series: Ike
The Mother/Earthbound Series: Lucas
Wow, 5 gaming series only get 7 characters? That's a terrible percentage, 25% for characters, which is 5% representation for each series on average. Clearly, these series need more representation.
Before You Jump Down My Throat...
Yes, I know the entire roster isn't out yet. I realize I have zero clue as to who those other characters are and yes I realize these series will get more characters. I'm not clueless to these facts. Now that I've said that, I'll move to the next part.
Further Representation?
Many forum members, including myself, speculate further character representation for the already well-represented series. Here is what consider a general list.
The Mario Series: Luigi, Geno, Bowser Jr.
The Pokemon Series: MewTwo, Lucario, Jiggly Puff
The Legend of Zelda Series: Ganondorf, Young Link (of some kind), Midna (with or without wolf)
Cleary, some of these characters will return, such as Luigi and Ganondorf. Others are still up in the air. But suppose that we give 5 reps each series for fairness to all these series. Here is what I find to a complete, but speculated general list of these series character representation.
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, Geno
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Jiggly Puff, MewTwo
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link (Of some kind)
Technically, you could swap out any character, but thats not the point. That 15 characters for 3 series, creating a much larger percentage for these series. What about the lesser series?
The speculated characters for the lesser represent series include:
The Metroid Series: Dark Samus, Ridley
The Donkey Kong Series: King K. Rool
The Star Fox Series: Krystal, Falco Lombardi, Wolf O'Donnell
The Fire Emblem Series: Marth, Roy, Miciahia, the Black Knight
You may not totally agree with these lists, but I passed these of Melee and what I saw in terms of popularity and which characters were not likely to be bosses and/or assist trophies. You see the problem? The first thing is that not all these characters will make it and second those that do add to the series total, but still cannot compete with the larger series. Granted these games aren't as popular, but they still have die hard fans and fan bases. These series will remain under-represented even so.
A further problem is what I call the "duplicate character" and it applies to all series. What a duplicate character is in my definition is: A character that has a unique moveset, but is an already existing character in another physical form. They are not clone characters. This is also why i count Zero Suit Samus and Sheik as seperate characters because they may be part of another character but they still are unique in terms of pyhsical appearance and moveset.
Here are examples:
Link----> Wind Waker Link/ Revamped Young Link
Mario---> Paper Mario
Samus--> Zero Suit Samus
Zelda----> Sheik
While these characters are unique as I mentioned, the reality is, they are basically playable alternate costumes. They add no uniqueness to their respected series representation other than movesets. Samus is still Zero Suit Samus minus the suit and Mario is still Paper Mario in 2-D.
Part of the problem I believe we have had with not only these characters, but with the clones in the past where not the clone aspects, but some of the character are/were simply the same character. Young Link is another version of Link and so on. We wanted characters like Pit or Wario who offered totally and complete uniqueness. Thus I fear that this could arise again and I believe Nintendo sees it too.
A Personal Prediction
This predicition was given some thought and I believe that Nintendo and Sakurai may be thinking on the same page. It is all specualtion, but here goes.
My belief is that Nintendo will add not only more representation to those already with high character counts, but also to those with low character counts. The difference is, we will have very unique characters and those series that are under represented will be better represented than they are currently.
My predicition of unqiue characters includes:
*Note this list deals with already listed gaming series and not predicting reps for series not already represented. Example: Issac from Golden Sun will not be on this list since no other Golden Sun rep is listed. Sorry, that means Captain Falcon is NOT debated here either, atleast not yet.
The Mario Series: Luigi, Bowser Jr.
The Legend of Zelda Series: Ganondorf, Midna (With Wolf)
The Pokemon Series: Lucario/MewTwo/Jiggly Puff (2 of the 3)
The Star Fox Series: Krystal, Wolf/Falco (one or the other)
The Metroid Series: Ridley and Dark Samus--slightly lesser chance than Ridley, but still high
The Fire Emblem Series: Micahia, Marth
The Donkey Kong Series: King K.Rool
The Mother/Earthbound Series: Claus
*NOTE*-This list concerns Playable Characters Only.
Why Come? An Explanation of the Prediciton
You may want to know how I came about these particular characters. Well here is my answer. I didn't use fan base or personal bias or "clues" hidden in the updates. It is all pure speculation and comparison to the characters we already have now.
Basically, all these character reflect the major players from the their respected gaming series that:
1.) Have not currently been deconfirmed via Assist Trophy or in a similar way
2.) Are a major character in their respect series
3.) Do not follow into what I define a duplicate character
4.) Have no clone aspects
5.) If I forgot anything, I'll add it later
Now I'll answer some questons I know you're going to ask.
Why Bowser Jr. over Geno ?
Well, I know not everyone will agree, but Bowser Jr. is a character that has recently been involved alot more in the Mario universe. He's been the final boss in many games and he's made various appearance in such games as Mario Party, Mario Strikers and so forth. He is new to young gamers and has the ability to have a very unique moveset from Bowser.
Geno is a well known character with great potential and has one more thing going for him: He's not a koopa. While Geno hasn't been in a game in while, Geno doesn't give the impression that he's Bowser, or any other character in a different form. He is kind of like a retro character, but he isn't a major player outside of Mario RPG.
This is a difficult arguement. Do you go with the current Bowser Jr? Or dip into the past with Geno?
My prediction is Bowser Jr, because as time moves on, I could see him some day replacing Bowser as the main villain of the Mario series, much like Andross was replaced by other villains in the Star Fox series.
Why Ridley over Dark Samus?
Simply put, Dark Samus gives us too much Samus in the game. With a suit, without a suit, a dark suit, how many versions of Samus do we need? Ridley is the only logical choice left and he can actually fit on the stage compared to Kraid. If we had 3 versions of Samus as the only 3 reps for Metroid, we're doing the series a great injustice.
Dark Samus is a great character, but there are other character outside of Samus and her multiple forms. I'd argue on the half of the hunters, but I feel strongly they will be assist trophies. They arent a major player like Ridley, whose been a villain in plenty of the Metroid games. This character's chances are high, but not as high as Ridley's.
While many forum members think that Dark Samus would make a perfect representative for the Metroid series, I do not. However, I would loved to be proved wrong and have both Ridley and Dark Samus make the game. Until then, I remain skeptical. I will not deny Dark Samus has a great chance, but I remain unsure as to where Metroid will go from minimal representation to large representation even with Sakurai's desire to include more Metroid characters. One would think he could do it, but Sakurai has not always been predictable so we'll have to wait and see.
Why Midna over Wind Waker Link?
This one was difficult but Midna over any version of WWLink/Young Link makes sense. We already have Link, do we need to seem cell-shaded or younger? Plus, it seems that the Twilight Princess appeal has gotten into all current graphics of the Legend of Zelda characters that have been confirmed. It will only be a matter of time before we get a character from that game. Midna also possesses possibly one of the most unique move sets in Brawl if she makes it in.
The Fire Emblem Issue
The Fire Emblem series is a vast gaming franchise with tons of potential reps. However, when it comes to Brawl, not everyone will make it. Obviosuly Micahiah brings a new feel not only as a playable character, but also shows the magic user side of Fire Emblem for the fans of Brawl unfamiliar with the series.
The issue is Marth and Roy. I'll admit right now my knowledge is limited but Marth seems worthy of coming back because of his popularity in both Japan and America and he is one of the first lords, if im not mistaken. But does he really belong there? Does Roy belong?
If you look at Ike, he has taken parts of Roy and Marth into his moveset. It seems the best of both Marth and Roy are within Ike with a few changes. Compare Ness to Lucas. Lucas basically has Ness's moves and Ike seems to appear in a similar fashion. However, for clarification purposes, Ike does not play like Marth or Roy, but some of the similiar aspects of the two when it comes to his move set. His eruption attack is nearly identical to Roy's flare move, and like both Marth and Roy, his up-B move is very similiar to theirs as well, minus virtually any horizontal movement and the much nicer finish at the end. He does have his own differences, but the similiarities are there and that cannot be denied.
None the less if Marth and Roy arent there, who will be? I've been well informed that the Black Knight is too minor of a character, but who then? Hector? Sigurd? Someone else?
I chose Marth because he is a reoccuring lord in both Fire Emblem 1 and 3, while I am unaware of any other reoocuring lords. He is popular in both America and Japan and was a top tier character that Sakurai might want to keep.
I speculate Roy is gone, mainly because forum members that specialize in Fire Emblem explained to me that Roy was in a very unsuccessful game and that his appearance in Melee was a mere advertisement. Makes sense to me, since I have no real knowledge about Roy or his popularity or the game he appeared in.
Right now it seem Ike, Marth and Micahiah are logical choices to represent Brawl. My only concern would be if Nintendo wanted to do like they did with the Mother/Earthbound games and use the newer characters. They have Ike, so why not use newer Fire Emblem characters and leave out Marth and Roy?
And Marth has one major thing going for him and that is the for mentioned huge popularity. Marth probably isn't going anywhere. Compare that to Ness, who has been on the replacement list since Melee.
I'm very unsure on this issue. Perhaps time will tell.
All the Pokemon
Yeah I hate pokemon, but more are going to come. Probably why that bothers me so much is because I look at Pokemon Trainer and see 3 more pokemon.
Lucario is the issue because he is a 4th generation pokemon which people say Sakurai wants more of, but I am skeptical on that. If you add Lucario, you figure to lose MewTwo because of his awkward controls. Then again, Lucario and MewTwo are more involved in Pokemon in terms of movies than Jiggly Puff who has lost some popularity.
Overall, there are too many pokemon, much like there will be too many Mario characters, but I don't see them being excluded from Brawl.
King of the Scrapheap?
King K. Rool is the only logical character left for Donkey Kong. I'm sure many agree, unless you want ANOTHER ape of some kind as a character, than I guess I'm not going to debate this any further.
Unless there is a significant character I missed, I dont see anyone standing in the way of K.Rool.
Unmasking Claus and Burying Ness
Again, to me, this seems obvious, but Claus, much like K. Rool, is really perhaps the only character of importance left in the series.
Many clamour for Ness, but don't make any bets. Ness has no move set now and with clones seeming less and less of an option every day, thats all Ness would be if he returned.
My knowledge is limited on Earthbound, so please correct me if I missed something big.
However, from what I do know, Ness is just about 6 feet under. Let's look at the fact:
1.) Sakurai has been awaiting the day to replace him and
2.) If no clones are goin got be in Brawl, then what are Ness's' moves?
3.) Lucas's has way more sex appeal...PERIOD.
Comparing Lucas to Ness so far we have:
Lucas's Moveset:
1.) Pk Thunder
2.) Pk Fire
3.) PSI Magnet
Ness's Moveset:
1.) Pk Thunder
2.) Pk Fire
3.) PSI Magnet
Hmmmmm.......??? Looks like Ness still has a baseball bat and yo-yo.....and Pk Flash. Wow, awesome moveset Ness. The fact that Nintendo has wanted to replace him since Melee should be enough for those who believe he will return. But some still hang on in denial.
No new representation for Wario and Yoshi?
Yes and sorry. Part of it because of this question:
Can you name a character in either series that is one same scale of popularity as Waro or Yoshi? I can't and I don't think you can either.
The second part is rather personal, but yes, Yoshi and Wario are their own series, but to myself and MAYBE others, they are very closely linked with the Mario world. In fact they have crossed paths many times. Wario and Yoshi are Mario-eque characters, regardless of their own icons or gaming series and what we do not need is anymore Mario representation in any way.
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A History of Representation
Here is a look at the history of gaming franchises that I've discussed and how they have been represented in the past and currently. Numbers in ( ) equal number of character in that series and % equal the percent that the series takes up in the total roster. Percents are rounded. The "New Series Percentrage" reflects the number of new gaming franchises represented in that Smash Brothers game from the last game.
Nintendo 64:
The Mario Series: Mario, Luigi (2)-16%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Jiggly Puff (2)-16%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link (1)-8.3%
The Star Fox Series: Fox McCloud (1)-8.3%
The Metroid Series: Samus (1)-8.3%
The Kirby Series: Kirby (1)-8.3%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong (1)-8.3%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-8.3%
The F-Zero Series: Captain Falcon (1)-8.3%
The Earthbound Series: Ness (1)-8.3%
Melee:
New Series Percentage: About 23%
The Mario Series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario (5)-20%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pichu, Jiggly Puff, MewTwo (4)-16%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link (5)-20%
The Star Fox Series: Fox, Falco (2)-8%
The Metroid Series: Samus (1)-4%
The Kirby Series: Kirby (1)-4%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong (1)-4%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-4%
The F-Zero Series: Captain Falcon (1)-4%
The Earthbound Series: Ness (1)-4%
The Ice Climber Series: Ice Climbers (1)-4%
The G & W Series: Game & Watch (1)-4%
The Fire Emblem Series: Marth, Roy (2)-8%
Current Brawl Roster:
New Series Percentage: About 31%
The Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Bowser (3)-12%
The Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (2)-8%
The Legend of Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Sheik (3)-12%
The Star Fox Series: Fox (1)-4%
The Metroid Series: Samus, Zero Suit Samus (2)-8%
The Kirby Series: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede (3)-12%
The Donkey Kong Series: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong (2)-8%
The Yoshi Series: Yoshi (1)-4%
The Ice Climbers Series: Ice Climbers (1)-4%
The Mother Series: Lucas (1)-4%
The Fire Emblem Series: Ike (1)-4%
Additional Series in Brawl Include:
Sonic the Hedgehog (Sonic, 1)-4%
Metal Gear Solid (Snake, 1)-4%
Kid Icarus (Pit, 1)-4%
Pikmin (Captain Olimar, 1)-4%
Wario (Wario, 1)-4%
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I want you guys to know this isn't a character prediction thread, but a theory of what I believe to come. So don't send me suggestion for characters, this isn't a thread like Wise Guy's or Chronobound's or Homeless Vagrant's.
Feel free to disagree, ask questions, make suggestions, and such.
)
