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Ugh...
Dark Samus is already proven to not be a recolor, we want more Metroid reps, and don't double post.
-
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Under-Represented Gaming Series, Duplicate Characters & Uniqueness: A Theory (Updated
- Thread starter raul
- Start date
Dark Samus is already proven to not be a recolor, we want more Metroid reps, and don't double post.
ryukotsusei
Smash Rookie
well sorry for not knowing! dark samus is a terrible idea there are already two characters with samus in there name and if there was another character it would likely be ridley as he is in way more metroid games than dark samus is
and why shouldn't i double-post? i'm saying something different in both posts so it's not like I'm just trying to take up space *tongue*raul
Smash Lord
Thats how I feel. I completely 100% understand that Dark Samus is an entirely seperate character that the normal Samus, but the fact remains, no matter if its a plot device or otherwise, Dark Samus is another Samus-like character. Similiar in physical appearance but with a unique moveset, Dark Samus fits my definition of a duplicate character. Ridley of course does not.
There is the fact that people claim Sakurai wants more Metroid representation in Brawl, but that doesn't guarantee either Ridley or Dark Samus. In seems logical however that at minimum one more character gets in.
There is the fact that people claim Sakurai wants more Metroid representation in Brawl, but that doesn't guarantee either Ridley or Dark Samus. In seems logical however that at minimum one more character gets in.
GreatClayMonkey
Smash Lord
I kinda feel they just wouldn't put in two characters who look so similar. Just because the only diffrence appearence wise is their colors
raul
Smash Lord
Ahh see I agree, but be careful because the Dark Samus Fans will give you an ear full.
Lecto2007
Smash Lord
Thats true they dont want another color they just want another character slot.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
WARNING WALL OF PAIN APPROACHING!!
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121575
Ike shares ONE move with Marth and Roy. He does not take some moves from both. He takes one. People might argue about his eruption, but in case they haven't noticed, let me explain a few things about it. Eruption sends opponents much more upward than Flare Blade and Shield Breaker. It is primarily a vertical kill move. It also hits from the ground up, and hits behind him. It's animation is different, and it's trajectory is different, so the logical assumtion is that the move itself is different. "But it has teh phir3!" Well, Fox and Falco's up B's have "teh Phir3" amd so does Captain Falcon's falcon punch.
The next closest move they have in common is Ike's nair. It's comparible to Marth and Roy's dair, but it shares none of its properties, and also has a wider range. A lot more can be derived from Link than Marth when analyzing Ike's moves. Ike's down tilt, down air, foward smash, and up smash can be compared to Link's down tilt, down air, foward smash, and uptilt respectively. Marth, Ike, and Link also all share the generic swordsman wake up attack and down smash attacks (swipe once in front and once behind).
Marth and Ike are not in the same situation as Ness and Lucas. Ness was going to be replaced back in melee, but was kept in because Mother 3 kept getting delayed. Ike on the other hand, was almost purposely differentiated from Marth, so much so that we're even able to say that he's more like Link. Marth is one of the [bmost popular[/b] characters in the entire FE franchise (more popular than Ike). In fact, Marth was going to be taken out of the NA version of melee, but was kept in due to tremendous fan appeal. Here's the exact quote from Sakurai.
Quote:
Quote:
If your willing to look past the blue hair (which isn't even the same style) you'll also notice quite a few differences in their apperance. That's because even in the FE franchise itself, Ike is the oddball. He's the only Lord that was born into nobility. He pays no regard to the social status of the person he speaks, too. It only makes sense that a mercenary would look different from a prince.
At this point we can't logically conclude that Ike's moves were actually derived from Marth and Roy's. He shares a down B counter and that's pretty much it. The other moves he shares...are also shared by Link, so you can't assume that he got those moves from Marth or Roy specifically.
If you aren't willing to change your views, then there is really no point in you asking for our opinions is there? When in an arguement, both sides have to be willing to take into account the other's view points, but also discredit any false or unsupported information. This, Ike is similar to Marth and Roy, theory has no grounds to stand on, so I simply borrowed from the plethora of counter examples. I've found that the reason people try to make this arguement, is because that's what they originally thought Ike was going to be like. They thought Ike was replacing Marth and Roy (mostly because they didn't like Marth's high tier status and didn't like Roy's clone status) so they just naturally assumed they'd be similar. They thought that since Ike had blue hair and is a swordsman, that Marth being in would be weird. But little did they know that Japan's overwhelming obssesion with Marth is what brought him (and FE) to us in the first place? Did they know that almost Half of the FE characters on Sakurai's brawl poll are from Marth's games, despite how old those games are? And then comes E for all, which reveals Ike's entire moveset and proves that Ike is not a Marth clone, or even remotely similar to Marth for that matter. It enrages Ike fans and made Marth fans rejoice. Ike fans are mad because he's just too slow and may well end up as a bottom tier character. What's worse is that Ike wasn't the least bit slow in either of his games (though in RD he wasn't exactly a speed demon) and his amazing strength should let him wield Ragnell with ease. Marth fans gladly accepted this incarnation of Ike, as it proved that Marth was not replaced. It only got better when Shiek was revealled, as it proves that a character's popularity in melee and their unique moveset really does matter. Then again, Marth has a lot more going for him than just that.
I'm glad you agree that Marth will most likely return, but I just wanted to show that Marth and Ike aren't in the same situation as Ness and Lucas. I wanted to show everyone who bothered to read this that Marth and Ike are alike in hair color and weapon choice alone (though the actual types of swords and their styles are different). Ike's inclusion does not hurt or help Marth or Roy's chances at all. What affects their chances are how many FE representatives brawl will have, and if it's anything more than 1, Marth is in. Roy on the other hand has to compete wtih many more FE characters, because he no longer has that newest lord thing going for him, and his game didn't exactly impress FE fans. He has to compete with Micaiah, Sigurd, Leaf, and maybe even a few major support characters from FE1/3 and FE9/10, considering how those were the ones on Sakurai's poll. Japan has a lot more influence on smash than most people want to believe.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/ike.html
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121575
Ike shares ONE move with Marth and Roy. He does not take some moves from both. He takes one. People might argue about his eruption, but in case they haven't noticed, let me explain a few things about it. Eruption sends opponents much more upward than Flare Blade and Shield Breaker. It is primarily a vertical kill move. It also hits from the ground up, and hits behind him. It's animation is different, and it's trajectory is different, so the logical assumtion is that the move itself is different. "But it has teh phir3!" Well, Fox and Falco's up B's have "teh Phir3" amd so does Captain Falcon's falcon punch.
The next closest move they have in common is Ike's nair. It's comparible to Marth and Roy's dair, but it shares none of its properties, and also has a wider range. A lot more can be derived from Link than Marth when analyzing Ike's moves. Ike's down tilt, down air, foward smash, and up smash can be compared to Link's down tilt, down air, foward smash, and uptilt respectively. Marth, Ike, and Link also all share the generic swordsman wake up attack and down smash attacks (swipe once in front and once behind).Marth and Ike are not in the same situation as Ness and Lucas. Ness was going to be replaced back in melee, but was kept in because Mother 3 kept getting delayed. Ike on the other hand, was almost purposely differentiated from Marth, so much so that we're even able to say that he's more like Link. Marth is one of the [bmost popular[/b] characters in the entire FE franchise (more popular than Ike). In fact, Marth was going to be taken out of the NA version of melee, but was kept in due to tremendous fan appeal. Here's the exact quote from Sakurai.
Quote:
Which means:
Quote:
And guess what Marth's profile said
I guess the Japanese fans really liked Marth appearing in melee huh.
If your willing to look past the blue hair (which isn't even the same style) you'll also notice quite a few differences in their apperance. That's because even in the FE franchise itself, Ike is the oddball. He's the only Lord that was born into nobility. He pays no regard to the social status of the person he speaks, too. It only makes sense that a mercenary would look different from a prince.
At this point we can't logically conclude that Ike's moves were actually derived from Marth and Roy's. He shares a down B counter and that's pretty much it. The other moves he shares...are also shared by Link, so you can't assume that he got those moves from Marth or Roy specifically.
If you aren't willing to change your views, then there is really no point in you asking for our opinions is there? When in an arguement, both sides have to be willing to take into account the other's view points, but also discredit any false or unsupported information. This, Ike is similar to Marth and Roy, theory has no grounds to stand on, so I simply borrowed from the plethora of counter examples. I've found that the reason people try to make this arguement, is because that's what they originally thought Ike was going to be like. They thought Ike was replacing Marth and Roy (mostly because they didn't like Marth's high tier status and didn't like Roy's clone status) so they just naturally assumed they'd be similar. They thought that since Ike had blue hair and is a swordsman, that Marth being in would be weird. But little did they know that Japan's overwhelming obssesion with Marth is what brought him (and FE) to us in the first place? Did they know that almost Half of the FE characters on Sakurai's brawl poll are from Marth's games, despite how old those games are? And then comes E for all, which reveals Ike's entire moveset and proves that Ike is not a Marth clone, or even remotely similar to Marth for that matter. It enrages Ike fans and made Marth fans rejoice. Ike fans are mad because he's just too slow and may well end up as a bottom tier character. What's worse is that Ike wasn't the least bit slow in either of his games (though in RD he wasn't exactly a speed demon) and his amazing strength should let him wield Ragnell with ease. Marth fans gladly accepted this incarnation of Ike, as it proved that Marth was not replaced. It only got better when Shiek was revealled, as it proves that a character's popularity in melee and their unique moveset really does matter. Then again, Marth has a lot more going for him than just that.
I'm glad you agree that Marth will most likely return, but I just wanted to show that Marth and Ike aren't in the same situation as Ness and Lucas. I wanted to show everyone who bothered to read this that Marth and Ike are alike in hair color and weapon choice alone (though the actual types of swords and their styles are different). Ike's inclusion does not hurt or help Marth or Roy's chances at all. What affects their chances are how many FE representatives brawl will have, and if it's anything more than 1, Marth is in. Roy on the other hand has to compete wtih many more FE characters, because he no longer has that newest lord thing going for him, and his game didn't exactly impress FE fans. He has to compete with Micaiah, Sigurd, Leaf, and maybe even a few major support characters from FE1/3 and FE9/10, considering how those were the ones on Sakurai's poll. Japan has a lot more influence on smash than most people want to believe.
Ghost07
Smash Journeyman
Maybe...If Marth is in brawl that might better DS chances since marth and
Ike look similiar. Also If megaman is in the game i don't think they would
want three PC with the same looking arm cannon.
Ike look similiar. Also If megaman is in the game i don't think they would
want three PC with the same looking arm cannon.
Another fact that people seem to be forgetting about Dark Samus is that the suit she wears is canonically the same suit that Samus wears. It is the Phazon corrupted Varia suit from Metroid Prime, with the same basic functionalities and the same modularity. Remember that in the first game, Metroid Prime absorbed the Phazon suit from Samus, and used that to come back to life. I'm not going to say that they're the same character, but they've got enough in common that to make Dark Samus a character would be incredibly repetitive.
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My opinion on the Y. Link v. Midna debate is more on the fact that no matter how much people yell the contrary, Y. Link is still Link. To be more specific: I'd rather not have the Link from the WW time frame, I'd rather have the one from the Link to the Past time frame. He's not the same Link as the one from TP, and he has plenty of potential for a unique moveset. He even has a different design... now, if I gave you this argument, you'd call bull**** and rightly so. So why can people use the same argument in favor of WW Link? Yes, he's from an "alternate universe," but he's still from the same stock as all other Links, and thus is the same Link. I'm currently playing Phantom Hourglass, and I love it, but I still hold the opinion that this is the same Link I've always played as.
Let me also say that even Midna doesn't necessarily deserve a spot, but she at least deserves it as much as WW Link does. It is true, her impact on the LoZ world is very small, and she was never the lead in TP. However, to say she was a minor role, or even had poor character development, only serves to show that you probably haven't played the game, or weren't paying attention when you did (I'm looking at you, motsalogeL). Midna's role in TP was central, to the point where she nearly serves as another protagonist to the story. You also control her moves at several points in the game, so it's not like she's passive either.
Ultimately, if I can't see Midna in the game, I'd rather see neither, because frankly, four reps is enough for a game like Zelda, which doesn't have that many recurring characters. The same can also be said for Metroid, wherein the only recurring characters are Samus and Ridley. I could honestly be perfectly happy if there were only four reps for Zelda and three for Metroid, because it's more than I'd expect from either if I came with a fresh outlook on Smash.
----------------------------------------
My opinion on the Y. Link v. Midna debate is more on the fact that no matter how much people yell the contrary, Y. Link is still Link. To be more specific: I'd rather not have the Link from the WW time frame, I'd rather have the one from the Link to the Past time frame. He's not the same Link as the one from TP, and he has plenty of potential for a unique moveset. He even has a different design... now, if I gave you this argument, you'd call bull**** and rightly so. So why can people use the same argument in favor of WW Link? Yes, he's from an "alternate universe," but he's still from the same stock as all other Links, and thus is the same Link. I'm currently playing Phantom Hourglass, and I love it, but I still hold the opinion that this is the same Link I've always played as.
Let me also say that even Midna doesn't necessarily deserve a spot, but she at least deserves it as much as WW Link does. It is true, her impact on the LoZ world is very small, and she was never the lead in TP. However, to say she was a minor role, or even had poor character development, only serves to show that you probably haven't played the game, or weren't paying attention when you did (I'm looking at you, motsalogeL). Midna's role in TP was central, to the point where she nearly serves as another protagonist to the story. You also control her moves at several points in the game, so it's not like she's passive either.
Ultimately, if I can't see Midna in the game, I'd rather see neither, because frankly, four reps is enough for a game like Zelda, which doesn't have that many recurring characters. The same can also be said for Metroid, wherein the only recurring characters are Samus and Ridley. I could honestly be perfectly happy if there were only four reps for Zelda and three for Metroid, because it's more than I'd expect from either if I came with a fresh outlook on Smash.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Once again, Marth and Ike arent even remotely as similar as DS and Samus.
Marth wears his sister's momento (the tiara)-Ike wears a head band
Marth wears a metal cheastplate with golden designs embeded or painted on it-Ike wears a leather shoulder pad and half a leather cheastplate
Marth wears a blue silk cape and silk clothing- Ike wears a rag and what looks like cotton clothing
Marth's gloves and belt have jewels embeded in them, while Ike's gloves have metal plates on top and he wears an ordinary belt.
Falcion has a jewel embeded in the hilt-Ragnell is just freakin' huge
I could go on and divulge into their personalities or their stances, but this is based on purely apperance.
I like Ike's green outfit, as it expresses what he really is. He's an ordinary soldier, while Marth is a prince. It's really just the blue hair and cape that make people say they look alike, but I'm used to seeing blue hair and capes all the time among protagonists from Japanese games and shows, so it doesn't strike me as the least bit odd. Their other features seem much more prevailant.
Marth wears his sister's momento (the tiara)-Ike wears a head band
Marth wears a metal cheastplate with golden designs embeded or painted on it-Ike wears a leather shoulder pad and half a leather cheastplate
Marth wears a blue silk cape and silk clothing- Ike wears a rag and what looks like cotton clothing
Marth's gloves and belt have jewels embeded in them, while Ike's gloves have metal plates on top and he wears an ordinary belt.
Falcion has a jewel embeded in the hilt-Ragnell is just freakin' huge
I could go on and divulge into their personalities or their stances, but this is based on purely apperance.
I like Ike's green outfit, as it expresses what he really is. He's an ordinary soldier, while Marth is a prince. It's really just the blue hair and cape that make people say they look alike, but I'm used to seeing blue hair and capes all the time among protagonists from Japanese games and shows, so it doesn't strike me as the least bit odd. Their other features seem much more prevailant.
Ghost07
Smash Journeyman
We Know this we are talking about people who don't know much about Nintendo or Fire emblem. We are Fans, we know Marth and Ike don't look the same but they will to people
bought this game not knowing what Super Smash Bros or Fire Emblem is.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^Yeah, I guess you could say that. I'm just saying it's kinda sad that people call two characters similar because they both have the same "weird" hair color.
Ghost07
Smash Journeyman
How do you know most of his A moves are different?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Raul maybe you should add a more specific explanation on Ness to your theory and talk about him, since a few still beleive he will make it and that Claus doesn't interfere with his inclusion. In other words bull****
raul
Smash Lord
Yes, I think I will actually. I'll start it soon.