Unbanning the Wobbles

[Jam Stunna]

Wobbling is no fun, people who go to tournaments for fun are just going to be disappointed, I hate the technique personally. I also think its the only technique in the game that could affect the outcome of a game and make the worse player win.

If an IC player wobbles perfectly or chain-throws perfectly. the outcome will be the same. It doesn't really make sense to ban one and not the other.

 

[cloudz]

you can get out of chaingrabs no matter how Perfect you do them.

DI ftl(if your playing aginst somebody who does it really well)

 

[Aryman]

Doesn't really matter at all. If someone is going to run a tourney they're going to ban/not ban wobbling regardless.

Plus, in 3 months it really won't matter since they'll remove it from the game.

 

[Wobbles]

cloudz; that's why you use chaingrab mix-ups and grab-smash mix-ups to confuse their DI and land early finishers. Make them paranoid.

Also, edge chaingrab > DI. Food for thought ^_^

 

[Eggm]

If an IC player wobbles perfectly or chain-throws perfectly. the outcome will be the same. It doesn't really make sense to ban one and not the other.

No you can DI and at least its fun to try and play the mix up DI mind game and attempt to get out, while as the wobble you just sit there, that edge infinite is really hard/situational if I get owned by that I deserve to. xD

 

[Takeshi245]

I argee Wobbling shouldn't be banned. Ice Climbers's grab range isn't something to be proud about and like NES n00b said, camping existed before Wobbling anyway.

 

[theONEjanitor]

lmfao @ people thinking a 0-death move that GUARANTEES a removed stock, that CAN NOT BE ESCAPED of under any circumstances that is INCREDIBLY EASY to do should not be banned.

you guys are wacky around here.

 

[Shai Hulud]

lmfao @ people thinking a 0-death move that GUARANTEES a removed stock, that CAN NOT BE ESCAPED of under any circumstances that is INCREDIBLY EASY to do should not be banned.

you guys are wacky around here.

More like 40 - death, and doesn't work pretty much everywhere on Rainbow Cruise or Poke Floats so go there for your counterpick.

Just focus on gimping Nana--it's not that hard.

And theonejanitor, you play Marth so you should have no trouble avoiding grabs by ICs and gimping Nana. It's very difficult to grab a decent Marth, and very easy for Marth to separate Nana from Popo and keep them separated. Nana is easy as hell to Ken combo (no DI) or just tipper.

Wobbling is really not that overpowering. And if you can't past it just play Peach. It doesn't matter if you're not good with Peach, you'll still **** ICs in all likelihood.

Easiness of a move really has no meaning. There are plenty of tactics that kill your opponent by 40%--for instance, Marth's fsmash on YS, a Jigglypuff rest, shine spiking, swallowcides, etc. The only differences between wobbling and these tactics are

1) Wobbling is perceived as having unconditional success. This is not true, although stock conversion may approach 90 - 100%, there are cases where it won't work, and more importantly, the limitations of grab combos themselves (i.e., Nana must be present, not sliding, etc.) make wobbling only viable in about 40 - 50% of grabs to being with.

2) Wobbling takes a long time. If I play Fox vs. Captain Falcon and get three shine spikes, my opponent will be pissed, but surprisingly not nearly as much as if I had gone ICs and wobbled him once or twice. In this particular matchup, shine spiking Falcon is much easier than grabbing Falcon with ICs, but the difference is that shine spiking is instantaneous gimping, whereas wobbling may take 20 - 30 seconds. I think if people would think of wobbling as just another variety of gimping and resign themselves to the fact that their stock is gone as soon as the wobbling starts, then they could relax while getting beaten to death instead of having an aneuryism over the unfair, broken, ueber-tier Ice Climbers.

And janitor, I do better against Marth with Fox than ICs, even if I'm wobbling. Wobbling just doesn't change the matchup THAT much and it's still in Marth's favor.

 

[cloudz]

2) Wobbling takes a long time. If I play Fox vs. Captain Falcon and get three shine spikes, my opponent will be pissed, but surprisingly not nearly as much as if I had gone ICs and wobbled him once or twice. In this particular matchup, shine spiking Falcon is much easier than grabbing Falcon with ICs, but the difference is that shine spiking is instantaneous gimping, whereas wobbling may take 20 - 30 seconds. I think if people would think of wobbling as just another variety of gimping and resign themselves to the fact that their stock is gone as soon as the wobbling starts, then they could relax while getting beaten to death instead of having an aneuryism over the unfair, broken, ueber-tier Ice Climbers.

that was so beautifully said. my god

 

[dj asakura]

someone take that post to the backroom or something and see what "higher ups" have to say about it.

that was amoung the best counter arguments i have read

bravo sir. bravo

 

[theONEjanitor]

well i've never personally gotten wobbled before lol so my opinions aren't based on personal experience.
the fact that it takes longer makes it all the more annoying.
I shouldn't have to play Rainbow Cruise or Pokefloats everytime i face Ice climbers.
The difference between Shine Spiking and Wobbling is that shine spiking requires timing, and it requires a set up, and its generally easy to avoid, not to mention, the slight possibility of whiffing, which could lead to a death, or lead to you being very vulenerable around the edge.
Wobbling requires one grab. A grab, which is a basic maneuver. that almost certainly occurs several times in every smash bros. game played ever.
People were mad enough when Chu Dat discovered the DownThrow Dair chain...much less one that goes, -> A, A, A, A, A....
Jigglypuff's rest is move that's balanced because you generally die if you miss, plus you have to be so close to your opponent for it to land that its a basically "take it when the chance comes" type move. IC's could with all practicality base their entire game around landing the wobble. and grabbing in general is a much bigger part of the game than the rest. It's not something you have to "wait for".
Shine spiking is easy for us because we've practiced it. I've only RECENTLY begun landing shine spikes in battle. its not really "easy". Example: Find a scrub, tell him how to shine spike, see if he can do it. He won't be able to on a consistent basis. On the other hand, tell that scrub how to wobble. Pressing A over and over again he'll be able to do.
Swallowcides result in Kirby losing a stock as well, that doesn't compare. If Icey's lost a stock when they wobbled, no one would consider banning it.
The easiness of it is the biggest factor to me. The fact that its so easy makes it virtually impossible to screw it up. That's why i don't mind things such as a waveshine inifinite, because its incredibly difficult to do effectively without tons of practice. Any old noob could pick Ice Climbers, learn how to land grabs, learn how to wobble, and start placing in tournaments. obviously high level people will defeat them, but its just a hugely unbalanced advantage in most cases.

Focusing on killing Nana is the counter to the wobble, but to me it's just ******** in general to play in order to avoid ONE killer move that guarantees your removed stock..
That's like saying, just kill Nana to avoid the Freeze Glitch, it so easy just gimp Nana. i mean, sure i could, but still.

 

[Jam Stunna]

well i've never personally gotten wobbled before lol so my opinions aren't based on personal experience.
the fact that it takes longer makes it all the more annoying.
I shouldn't have to play Rainbow Cruise or Pokefloats everytime i face Ice climbers.
The difference between Shine Spiking and Wobbling is that shine spiking requires timing, and it requires a set up, and its generally easy to avoid, not to mention, the slight possibility of whiffing, which could lead to a death, or lead to you being very vulenerable around the edge.
Wobbling requires one grab. A grab, which is a basic maneuver. that almost certainly occurs several times in every smash bros. game played ever.
People were mad enough when Chu Dat discovered the DownThrow Dair chain...much less one that goes, -> A, A, A, A, A....
Jigglypuff's rest is move that's balanced because you generally die if you miss, plus you have to be so close to your opponent for it to land that its a basically "take it when the chance comes" type move. IC's could with all practicality base their entire game around landing the wobble. and grabbing in general is a much bigger part of the game than the rest. It's not something you have to "wait for".
Shine spiking is easy for us because we've practiced it. I've only RECENTLY begun landing shine spikes in battle. its not really "easy". Example: Find a scrub, tell him how to shine spike, see if he can do it. He won't be able to on a consistent basis. On the other hand, tell that scrub how to wobble. Pressing A over and over again he'll be able to do.
Swallowcides result in Kirby losing a stock as well, that doesn't compare. If Icey's lost a stock when they wobbled, no one would consider banning it.
The easiness of it is the biggest factor to me. The fact that its so easy makes it virtually impossible to screw it up. That's why i don't mind things such as a waveshine inifinite, because its incredibly difficult to do effectively without tons of practice. Any old noob could pick Ice Climbers, learn how to land grabs, learn how to wobble, and start placing in tournaments. obviously high level people will defeat them, but its just a hugely unbalanced advantage in most cases.

Focusing on killing Nana is the counter to the wobble, but to me it's just ******** in general to play in order to avoid ONE killer move that guarantees your removed stock..
That's like saying, just kill Nana to avoid the Freeze Glitch, it so easy just gimp Nana. i mean, sure i could, but still.

Pretty much what you said here is "I shouldn't have to change strategy when I face the Ice Climbers." Which, of course, is absurd. If you lose to a scrub that can wobble, that's your fault, not his.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Just a couple notes--

You can't compare grabs for Ice Climbers with grabs for other characters. If Fox or Marth or Captain Falcon had the equivalent of a wobble (i.e., an easy x - death chaingrab on every character) then they would be horribly broken because of how easy it is to land grabs with these characters and the lack of counter strategies for avoiding grabs. If one of those characters had such a move, that character would be absolutely unbeatable. But that's not the case with ICs. Captain Falcon can be 0-death CGed with the dthrow dair, yet the matchup is considered even, whereas his matchup vs. Fox is considered uneven. You can't just assume "grab combo = broken" applies equivalently across the characters. For ICs chaingrabs are always situational, including wobbling. And there are numerous counterstrategies such as platform camping, projectile spamming, Nana-gimping, etc., to nullify IC's grab game.

Grabs do NOT occur in every game with ICs. I've played games where I landed ZERO grabs. Granted this is with people who are used to fighting me and know how to avoid my traps, but that just goes to show that grabs can, at least partially, be avoided.

Shine spiking is not hard. It is significantly simpler than wobbling. It requires little setup actually--my recent Captain Falcon strategy is to waveshine him across the stage, then either shine off the edge or dsmash depending on the spacing, followed by ledge-hopped shines. I've done this 3/4 stocks against players better than I am. Whether this is really harder than wobbling or not is not really an issue. At high levels of play, people will develop the skill necessary to utilize broken tactics. If wobbling were more difficult, I would still more than likely be able to do it with a high degree of consistency, and to the person being wobbled it would make no difference.

Basically, people need to stop being scrubs and just learn how to counter Ice Climbers. You might have to alter your strategy a little, and maybe you won't be able to spam fsmashes as often as you'd like, but trust me, Marth has plenty of options for separating the ICs and avoiding grabs (retreating double fairs = win). As do other characters, like CF, Ganon, Peach, Fox, Samus...

And Kirby doesn't lose a stock swallowciding against most of the characters if you have good timing. He can recover on every stage but FOD, I believe.

 

[Wobbles]

Except in incredibly extreme circumstances, ease of use should not have a bearing on whether something should be banned. This is because almost any technique, no matter how difficult, will be mastered by somebody attempting to use it to their advantage.

And with practice comes consistency, and if I can do something 98% of the time even if it's REALLY hard, it doesn't matter that it's hard.

Hell, I can consistently freeze glitch even though it's got a pretty strict timing. But it's unfair. Hard or not, it's unfair.

The "one grab" argument is pretty silly considering that Nana needs to be alive, needs to be near me, and you need to be at a percent where you can't wiggle out before it starts... all of those conditions must be met before the infinite can be done. So "one grab..." no, "one particular kind of grab." A grab that, if you know it's coming, becomes significantly easier to avoid. A grab that, if you know the conditions, you will actively seek to deprive me of the conditions. Your JOB against the IC's is to separate us, kill Nana early, and avoid grabs. If you can't do those things consistently, you get grabbed left and right, and Nana's always alive and well... well ****, you're fighting the match all wrong. You are going to lose almost no matter what I do out of the grabs.

Also, if it's SO broken, why isn't there any evidence that it's dramatically skewing tourney results? Why aren't bad people just turbocharging themselves to the top of the results in tournaments by just using IC's? Why hasn't our metagame crumbled with it unbanned?

Supply me with decent answers to those questions, and then the debate can continue.

 

[ArcNatural]

Wobbling only ruins players who aren't very technical and don't actually think about how they have to play. If you get destroyed by wobbling and you can't do anything, your clearly not thinking your strategy through. Yes it's easy if the conditions are right, so are many other strategies in this game. The only thing I don't like about this technique is it can really fluster you because it takes so long to perform untill you can ko off it.

Bottom line is there are plenty of chaingrab 0-death combos and such in this game, deal with it. Learn to play with some strategy.

 

[1048576]

In pro tourneys where people have the technical skill to L-Cancel against a double shield every time, then Wobbling's cool, but in my local tourney, I would not want to see wobbling. I understand that allowing it would make me better in the long run, but in the short run, the same would degenerate into IC dittos, with the non IC's getting Wobbled into elimination.

 

[Binx]

In pro tourneys where people have the technical skill to L-Cancel against a double shield every time, then Wobbling's cool, but in my local tourney, I would not want to see wobbling. I understand that allowing it would make me better in the long run, but in the short run, the sgame would degenerate into IC dittos, with the non IC's getting Wobbled into elimination.

This is just untrue, with proper spacing you wouldnt even need to l cancel all your aerials, unless it was a very laggy one (in which case you deserve to be punished for a stock). The fact is, is that against a good mobile opponent nana usually has trouble keeping up with Popo and will desynch or slide before your grab and you dont have time to wobble before someone can wiggle out so you do a less damaging chain throw instead or maybe just a tech chase against really fast wigglers. If you aren't good enough at the game to beat Ice Climbers then you should just practice your game and practice against them.

I used to main Marth and he is WAY easier to land grabs with and he can do some nasty things to everyone out of a grab, just tech chase or chain throw certain characters, bad DI = tipper = death which is as damaging as no L cancel grab = death. Only Marth has a faster dash dance and a grab range that is longer than YOSHI's.

I am seconding Sheik currently as a counter to Marth and Peach and she has a ******** grab as well, She can easily chain throw over half the cast, some members over 80% (from 0%) The ones she cant chain grab she has very varied and powerful tech chases against.

Captain Falcon has a throw to knee combo that is inescable at certain percents to almost every character, against ICs it is U throw at ANY damage, or Raptor boost at ANY damage = knee = nana dead = match unwinnable.

 

[Negative Zero]

The Ice Climbers have a 0-death chain grab on Captain Falcon. They've had it for a long time. It's the same thing as wobbling; to a Captain Falcon player, a grab from an IC is death. This does not mean that Falcon vs IC is a lost cause. In fact, in high levels of play, Captain Falcon /counters/ the Ice Climbers. The fact that they have a zero to death on him doesn't change the fact that he counters them.

 

[Binx]

I really don't think falcon counters ICs at any level of play I think those players do pretty well against Chu in general and Falcon is just one of the most brutal nana killers.

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

Make the vote open to everyone in the smash community. No backroom bull****

 

[Binx]

Make the vote open to everyone in the smash community. No backroom bull****

No because then a bunch of scrubs will all want it banned, the only people who would be in favor of are a few of the better players and IC players, most IC players dont use it in friendlies or anything and in tournament there are more effective tactics with other characters.

 

[Xsyven]

Make the vote open to everyone in the smash community. No backroom bull****

Do you really think a vote between an infinite amount of people that, for all we know, just got smash yesterday would be better than a vote between 23 of the internet's most well respected smashers?

 

[Shai Hulud]

Do you really think a vote between an infinite amount of people that, for all we know, just got smash yesterday would be better than a vote between 23 of the internet's most well respected smashers?

The guy's name is SLAYERCoLdKiLr, so he's clearly too much of a hardass to listen to reason. He's probably slaying and killing with his cold, cold heart right now.

 

[Binx]

Do you really think a vote between an infinite amount of people that, for all we know, just got smash yesterday would be better than a vote between 23 of the internet's most well respected smashers?

This is very well said, thank you

 

[The King]

Until Wobbling makes IC's so powerful that Peaches cringe upon hearing who they have to play next, this move will not deserve to be banned.

As powerful as it is, powerful does not equal broken. It's still situational, and taking the dynamics of Ice Climbers, their options for approach, falling speeds, juggles, WD speed/range, and the 2-character property of them, this technique can be played around. Their opponent just needs to know where not to be at all times.

Kinda like how people figured out after a while not to stand between fox/marth and the edge of the stage. It's all been said before; just learn where to/where not to approach ice climbers, and don't **** around and get greedy when they're in the shield, because they're just a wavedash and 30 seconds away from killing you in the right situation.

King Out

 

[Deleted member]

this would have been better in Melee Discussion, where people who play other characters than ICs could add insight. I also missed the poll in the MBR to ban it.

I see no difference between the freeze glitch and the infinite, for all utility (tournament) purposes.

 

[Binx]

The difference is that the freeze glitch can happen in such a way to where the person can't be unfrozen thus corrupting the match.

 

[Xsyven]

this would have been better in Melee Discussion, where people who play other characters than ICs could add insight. I also missed the poll in the MBR to ban it.

Do you really think a vote between an infinite amount of people that, for all we know, just got smash yesterday would be better than a vote between 23 of the internet's most well respected smashers?

Not only this, but do are you suggesting that all IC players are biased losers? If you look real hard, you might notice the difference between some of the arguments. Here's a hint. Some are valid, others are entirely stupid. Read the valid ones.

And boy howdy, a lot of the players in this thread aren't even IC mains.

I see no difference between the freeze glitch and the infinite, for all utility (tournament) purposes.

If your wobble timing is off, your opponent can escape and punish ya. There's absolutely nothing you can do against a freeze glitch.

 

[Deleted member]

for tournament purposes, don't miss. not missing when you grab your opponent is much easier than telling the other player "don't get grabbed".

I meant this topic should be in melee discussion, as in "unbanning the wobbles" so other players would be more likely to look at it.

If you look real hard, you might notice the difference between some of the arguments. Here's a hint. Some are valid, others are entirely stupid. Read the valid ones.

yeah, make sure you understand the context of someone you quote before you write them off as stupid and look bad. My argument was valid, so yeah, in your words, "read the valid ones".

 

[T0MMY]

The Smash Back Room recently had an open vote on whether to ban the Wobbles from tournaments. Members were asked to vote one of the following ways:

Ban
Could Ban
Don't Ban

The winner of the poll was "Don't Ban" with 17 of the 23 votes. "Could Ban" was second with 4, and "Ban" received only 2 votes.

The Smash Back Room is comprised of respected players and tournament hosts throughout the world. While their opinion is not official in any way, the members hold debates about every subject affecting the Smash tournament community. The vote follows pages of debates over several months in which results from any number of tournaments were used to argue both ways. The end result is what you see above.

While tournament directors are free to run tournaments the way they choose, the Smash Back Room's primary goal is to produce guidelines for running tournaments in the fairest way possible. You are welcome to ban the Wobbles at your own tournaments, but do so knowing that the most respected members of the community disagree with your decision.

That is all .

Neal, give me back room access. Kthx.
Personally, I don't think it should be banned, but I think the community at large can't handle it. Having t1mmy's Ice Climbers and Kirby to play I quickly learned how to break out of grabs and Kirbycides, I've never been woobled my entire life.
It really doesn't take an incredible amount of skill to learn how to break out, and I believe if you do it right it leaves little to the way of getting zero to deathed by woobling. I'm fine with the technique, but you have to question why suddenly the IC players are doing so well in tourneys ;^)

 

[Binx]

Neal, give me back room access. Kthx.
Personally, I don't think it should be banned, but I think the community at large can't handle it. Having t1mmy's Ice Climbers and Kirby to play I quickly learned how to break out of grabs and Kirbycides, I've never been woobled my entire life.
It really doesn't take an incredible amount of skill to learn how to break out, and I believe if you do it right it leaves little to the way of getting zero to deathed by woobling. I'm fine with the technique, but you have to question why suddenly the IC players are doing so well in tourneys ;^)

It isn't sudden, Chu went from getting 3rd place to getting 3rd place, he is just a very good player, he wins by a few more stock sometimes, Wobbles is also a great player and he went from getting very high placings to getting slightly higher placings, no other IC has done well in a big tourney regardless of they're wobbling profficiency that I am aware of.

Obviously ICs arent a common character to see, most people dont really understand how to play them, also their physics can be odd for some people, and it can be frustrating to have Nana kill you, or not respond to your Up B or whatever, but with experience you learn to get around it, and in my case I laugh pretty loudly when Nana edgehogs me, I make jokes like how she killed my opponent and me in the same stock and he is crazy pro.

Back to the point though I know wobbling is a very very powerful technique, and I believe its more of a winmore technique, in MOST cases being good at wobbling will just make winning the match easier, at a lower level of the game its kind of breaking, but people just need to learn that you dont fight ICs the same way you fight other characters, in some matches you just know your going to be grabbed, and people have this illusion that ICs have a good grab, the fact is, though, that ICs grab game is HORRIBLE, its difficult to grab faster characters, Marth, Floaties and many other characters if they try really hard not to be grabbed. They have a horrendous grab range and it holds them back, with proper spacing and unmissed L cancels its difficult to get a grab, especially a synched grab, which is needed to do a proper wobble. Under 40% with proper wiggling the wobble can't start, if the IC player has to dash dance to grab you they desynch and the wobble can't start, the trick is to stay mobile and maintain good spacing, or have a shine so you cant get grabbed when you are on top of them, platform camping, projectile camping, peaches downsmash, all sorts of counters to ICs grab game that people just are not experienced enough to deal with. Think of how long it took people to realize NOT to DI at 20% vs Marths Chainthrow against Fox and it could make him miss... It is not rocket science you just have to learn the matchups. People are lazy and don't want to learn not to get grabbed, these people deserve to be wobbled.

My 2 cents.

~Binx

 

[1048576]

Obviously, the move isn't broken at pro (backroom) level, where people don't mess up their tech skill, so they can effecctively counter the maneuver, but I don't want to see that crap at my local tournament, where some people still accidentally full jump with Fox, or fail to l-cancel against a double shield.

 

[Takumaru]

I don't see why this even matters. ICs are fine wobble or no wobble. This whole arguement is pointless since the decision has already been made. Until the BR brings it up again or decides it's necessary to ban it's not worth everyother topic being a wobble arguement. Oddly enough, I run into more people who want me to wobble than people who don't like it, go figure that one. I don't like to wobble.

 

[dj asakura]

for tournament purposes, don't miss. not missing when you grab your opponent is much easier than telling the other player "don't get grabbed".

did anyone else think this is a horrible horrible statement.

cause...there's just a lot about it thats bad

 

[Shiri]

did anyone else think this is a horrible horrible statement.

cause...there's just a lot about it thats bad

Only people who play real characters would understand the statement he made.

 

[Binx]

I don't see why this even matters. ICs are fine wobble or no wobble. This whole arguement is pointless since the decision has already been made. Until the BR brings it up again or decides it's necessary to ban it's not worth everyother topic being a wobble arguement. Oddly enough, I run into more people who want me to wobble than people who don't like it, go figure that one. I don't like to wobble.

I am with you, its no fun for me to chain throw or wobble in friendlies, I know I can do massive damage with either, or outright kill you, but it doesn't help me improve as much as just practicing tech chasing and things for when I dont have the opportunity to wobble in a real match. Plus its just as boring for me to chain throw you 10 times, or to hit a for 30 seconds as it is for you to be killed by it, but in tournament you better believe I want to do my best and try to win.

 

[chaddd]

Are you serious?

23 members of the Smash Back Room vote, 17 of which are obviously confused, and that is justification to say that a 'majority of respected players' will disagree?

Wobbling is garbage. Only one character in the game can turn their grab into a free stock. You know how many grabs happen in a game? Since when does landing a single grab and being able to press the a button constitute being able to take 1/4 of your opponents total life for free?

Get real, man. Playing against wobbling helps you avoid grabs better, it doesn't make it any less trashy.

Personally, I don't mind playing against wobbling. But I don't believe that many of the communities skilled players would like practicing for a tournament for weeks only to be destroyed by some kid who learned the wobbles after 2 weeks of playing ice climbers.

 

[GA Peach]

I don't see why this even matters. ICs are fine wobble or no wobble. This whole arguement is pointless since the decision has already been made. Until the BR brings it up again or decides it's necessary to ban it's not worth everyother topic being a wobble arguement. Oddly enough, I run into more people who want me to wobble than people who don't like it, go figure that one. I don't like to wobble.

...since when has a discussion of technique ever been pointless in a fighting game community? arguments and discussions get shut down WAY too quickly in this forum. i've never played against Wobbles, Chu, or Trail before, but i really don't like the idea of being grabbed once and losing a stock due to a one-grab infinite that only one character out of 20 something has access to. banning it would be ridiculous, though, as no other fighting game community has ever banned a non-glitched infinite. smash seems a bit different, though, and i admit that i don't really know how to judge it. while i think smash is very endearing and fun, i have seen garbage in this game that wouldn't even come CLOSE to flying in any other game, and that same garbage has made me want to quit time and time again. chain-grabbing would be the largest example. never have i seen a game where you could grab someone, throw them, then follow up with another grab before they can recover for an extended period of time, that being beyond 2-3 grabs. if people could, let's say, chain multiple SPDs with Zangief in SFA3. people would probably riot, and that would be one of the most broken things anyone would have ever seen. but, in the smash community, things like that are commonplace, thus why i said that i don't really know how to give an opinion on the matter. i guess i'll close with saying that i think wobbling is extremely obnoxious and unfair, but to ban it would be unwarranted, as you'd have to get rid of all the other degenerate garbage that is coupled in with wobbling. just deal with it, i guess, as all games have their bullsh**

 

[Takumaru]

I think it's pointless because I don't think this topic would have been debated for so long in any other community. At this point most fighting communities would have moved on to "Ok, how can we counter this?" instead of still debating it. However smash is very different and I am having trouble understanding why the wobble is such a hot debate.

 

[Jim Kelly]

The sincere lack of other viable "infinites" is what I believe is giving some smashers a hard time.
Most other infinites require really good tech skill (drill/wave shine) or are really situational (rapid a with pichu/pika against a wall j/k )

Its not like MvC2 where the infinite is just another part of the game. Everyone has one.
A lot of smashers are set in their ways and just don't want to have to deal with this.

I don't see any real problems with the technique since only one tourney has ever been won by a IC player using the technique.

Like others have said it helps the IC pretty unneccessarily. (Do they really need MORE grab options) However, it has not proven gamebreaking.