Ultimate Bowser MU Analysis and Discussion

[meleebrawler]

I feel like TG is going to make or break Bowser entirely.

If TG gets stronger depending upon what Bowser is doing at the time, it would actually be amazing.

This includes things like dashing, smash attacks, specials, etc.

It would mean Bowser has a playstyle based around taking lots of damage but strategically deciding when he's not going to care.

This would also make Bowser one of the most technical characters in the game.



I rewatched it: Bowser TGs Pika's neutral B, looks like. The Usmash had yet to begin when Bowser was hit.

I thought you meant his DOWN b at first...



I'd love for you to be right, but the jury is still out on all of this.

We know that TG is at least dependent on whether Bowser is grounded. If it's also dependent on move execution at the time, Bowser could be a monster in this game with very likely the highest skill ceiling as well.

So basically, the way normal armour works in ARMS?

Doesn't crouching reduce knockback, which could thusly increase the amount of moves that could be armoured?

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

So basically, the way normal armour works in ARMS?

Doesn't crouching reduce knockback, which could thusly increase the amountof moves that could be armoured?

Yes, I'm pretty sure crouching reduces knockback taken.

"Crouch cancelling functions similarly to Melee, albeit toned down. The amount of knockback suffered by the user is reduced by 15% of its initial value and the amount of freeze frames suffered by the user is reduced by 33%. Although the technique's usefulness at low percents is limited, it is still fairly useful for survival at higher percents, especially with the more polarized knockback of smash attacks and other kill moves. " This was for Smash 4.

Good damn analysis there S_B ,man I really hope TG would be increased to this point where Bowser would play like you said, but I doubt it .

 

[Darches]

Generally speaking, lower skill ceilings are ideal... The actual ceiling however should be infinite because of donkey space. In this regard, Bowser is already doing great because he's one of the most mix-up/mind-game heavy characters.
I believe Brawl-* Bowser had super armor on EVERYTHING and was very fun to play.

*Brawl- was balanced through unbalance, and it was hilarious. Like, Dedede's fSmash would trip people. I liked it more than normal Brawl. I wish the dev's would do something like that.

 

[S_B]

So basically, the way normal armour works in ARMS?

Doesn't crouching reduce knockback, which could thusly increase the amount of moves that could be armoured?

It all depends on how TG works.

Does it go by how much knockback Bowser would've taken from the move, or does it go by how much KB he would've taken with other KB reducing factors factored in?

But just think about if TG was increased depending on how far into a move you were.

It would be like having light super armor that could become heavy armor at the right time.

And Bowser players would have to learn which of their moves at which points in their animation could armor through specific moves in specific matchups.

Crazy to think about, but I sadly doubt Bowser will be that deep.

 

[Kerthorok]

Down B can now spike. https://youtu.be/FdTXeovKU7k?t=1m8s

So I've been looking to lock down specifics on a Tough Guy armor increase for a while. Had a thread ready to go with some key examples when I slowly realized a lot of what I saw doesn't make sense when put together. Those key examples being Cloud's Jab 1 and Pika's F-Tilt. To armor these moves in Smash 4, the knockback threshold for Tough Guy would have to be tripled. These two moves deal the same damage, and the free for all setting lets us compare directly to Smash 4. Plus it just makes sense for them to increase Bowser's Tough Guy armor, not just as a buff but as a response to the addition of the 1v1 multiplier which would take away moves we could armor in the past. However, I have an example of another move, weaker than those two examples but Bowser fails to armor it, and it's Sonic's Jab 1.

So here are the facts at this point:

• No concrete evidence of a Tough Guy Threshold increase.
• Expect lots of new multijabs to be armored because many of them are now weaker in ultimate to compensate for hitting the victim more often. Pit is an example of this.
• Cloud's Jab 1 and Pika's F-tilt have something in common now - the same knockback angle which is 361 degrees. My only standing, sort of theory at this point is that moves with the "Sakurai" angle happen to have less knockback in general at low percents. Like, look at our late hit of F-Smash. Barely causes a flinch.
  • If my theory holds true than that's an indirect buff to Tough Guy. That's one of the most common knockback angles for any move that sends horizontally, including many projectiles.

It's unknown how well Tough Guy will perform in 1v1 settings. But I feel confident from footage it will matter more in Doubles where the 1v1 multiplier isn't an issue. And Bowser is already an excellent character for Doubles.

https://youtu.be/venAJCLaXIs?t=11s Bowser takes an F Smash from Little Mac to the face and gets sent nowhere. Maybe this lends further credence to your theory, Zapp.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Absolutely incredible

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Down B Spiking is definitely interesting. Must be just the air version of Down B. If the ground version of Down B spiked, then that would be very polarizing, since the victim could tech the ground and punish, or else eat the landing hit which would result in a move dealing 35% damage total without the 1v1 multiplier. But on the air version that's pretty neat if the meteor angle is consistent and not some early hitbox like with D-air. Those two moves have enough issues trying to stand out from each other.

https://youtu.be/venAJCLaXIs?t=11s Bowser takes an F Smash from Little Mac to the face and gets sent nowhere. Maybe this lends further credence to your theory, Zapp.

Whatever's going on with knockback in Ultimate, I'll definitely return for the Tough Guy compendium thread. "Tougher Guy: The Ultimate [sic] Compendium of All Moves Bowser Can Armor" Bowser armoring new moves like Pika F-tilt is not something we're imagining so something must have changed. And thinking it over it would at least be thematically appropriate for sakurai angle to be the answer. Since those moves leave the victim's feet on the ground at low percents. "Bowser armors moves better when he can stand his ground". Still a bizarre explanation in terms of game mechanics if it's true though.

 

[S_B]

No offense, folks, but I pointed out that the startup of down+B spikes on page one:
https://smashboards.com/threads/e3-world-0-early-ultimate-bowser-analysis.455508/#post-22139206

And the knockback for the fsmash may actually just be Bowser's weight. It looks like the knockback growth may be more gradual this time.

In that same video, Bowser successfully hits LM with a bomb at low % and LM actually gets back in time to punish. Looks like moves with high KB at higher percentage can have garbage KB at lower percentages. I hope they change that because SUCCEEDING in hard to land attacks should never result in a punish by the player that was hit.

Also, TG is historically either crap or nonexistent in the air: we already know that Bowser in Ultimate can TG Villager's slingshot fair pellets on the ground but flinches in the air.

EDIT: KK is posting tons of Bowser footage on his YT channel. We should absolutely be analyzing the hell of it is anyone isn't already:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaGnSJl7a7e9rp7GyomvPaw

EDIT2: Okay, just found a pretty good example of aerial TG in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqMVD8egkCw

Right around 18 seconds, Bowser Dairs through Ivysaur's rapid attack, takes damage, and hits Ivysaur. Maybe rapid attacks that are weak enough will be TGable while airborne.

Watching these matches is also encouraging because KK is already exploiting airdodge mechanics to be more aggressive with Bowser's edgeguarding game, not letting anyone recover for free if he can and getting lots of KOs for his efforts.

 

[Kerthorok]

No offense, folks, but I pointed out that the startup of down+B spikes on page one:
https://smashboards.com/threads/e3-world-0-early-ultimate-bowser-analysis.455508/#post-22139206

And the knockback for the fsmash may actually just be Bowser's weight. It looks like the knockback growth may be more gradual this time.

In that same video, Bowser successfully hits LM with a bomb at low % and LM actually gets back in time to punish. Looks like moves with high KB at higher percentage can have garbage KB at lower percentages. I hope they change that because SUCCEEDING in hard to land attacks should never result in a punish by the player that was hit.

Also, TG is historically either crap or nonexistent in the air: we already know that Bowser in Ultimate can TG Villager's slingshot fair pellets on the ground but flinches in the air.

EDIT: KK is posting tons of Bowser footage on his YT channel. We should absolutely be analyzing the hell of it is anyone isn't already:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaGnSJl7a7e9rp7GyomvPaw

EDIT2: Okay, just found a pretty good example of aerial TG in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqMVD8egkCw

Right around 18 seconds, Bowser Dairs through Ivysaur's rapid attack, takes damage, and hits Ivysaur. Maybe rapid attacks that are weak enough will be TGable while airborne.

Watching these matches is also encouraging because KK is already exploiting airdodge mechanics to be more aggressive with Bowser's edgeguarding game, not letting anyone recover for free if he can and getting lots of KOs for his efforts.

I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but it wasn't completely unambiguous that it could spike in the older footage. In KK's footage, not only is it visually apparent, but you can also hear the meteor smash sound effect clearly as well.

 

[Kerthorok]

More footage of Aerial Up B killing, courtesy of BAM. https://youtu.be/q3YaIvqqfUw?t=1m22s

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

More footage of Aerial Up B killing, courtesy of BAM. https://youtu.be/q3YaIvqqfUw?t=1m22s

If you watch all the video, boy Nair really looks strong in this game. The landing lag buff really is significant.

 

[Kerthorok]

If you watch all the video, boy Nair really looks strong in this game. The landing lag buff really is significant.

Absolutely. Landing nair looks to be a strong combo tool. In addition, it could be used to condition shielding, which in turn could be punished with side B thanks to the startup buff.

 

[Darches]

nAir -> upB
Not a true combo, but useful nonetheless. I think nAir -> nAir will be pretty awesome, courtesy of both reduced landing lag and jumpsquat. Still too slow to be true, but this time it will burn out peoples' single airdodge >:D The same can be said for many other chars though

KK said he tried Bowsercide at the end but couldn't, even though he had 59% less damage.

I recall the upB vid against Fox sent him mostly horizontal, but Little Mac went mostly vertical. High knockback angle scaling?

 

[meleebrawler]

Every time that Mac tried to rapid jab Bowser, he got punished by Tough Guy. Even when Bowser was over 130%.

 

[S_B]

I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but it wasn't completely unambiguous that it could spike in the older footage. In KK's footage, not only is it visually apparent, but you can also hear the meteor smash sound effect clearly as well.

It's all good.

I had also pointed out a second case of it happening and TBH I'm not sure it isn't just bugged in the demo because it seems to have a hitbox prior to Bowser beginning the descent.

Also, seeing TG make other characters' jabs irrelevant makes me very happy, especially when it's against small, quick characters that normally make Bowser's life hell.

Now if only he could TG Sheik's needles......

 

[Darches]

I just saw the clip where Bowser's fSmash didn't even flinch Ness. WTH? I don't think this has to do with tough guy or the sakurai angle... Things might just be bugged, or something was changed to reduce floor combos or something. fSmash as a combo starter would be epic to land.

 

[S_B]

KK said he tried Bowsercide at the end but couldn't, even though he had 59% less damage.

Wait, whaa?

If Bowser always dies first and the opponent always jumps out, Bowser had damn well BETTER have more steering control...

 

[KingKong_ad]

My analysis on Bowser in Ultimate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bsaVR7GgM0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Pretty disappointed in Down Air not working anymore while slightly above the ground. I guess it doesn't matter since almost its only use in Smash 4 was against Mario's down throw.

Anyone else getting their hopes a little bit up for Bowser thanks to the most recent footages? The man's not looking terrible in this game after all.

 

[Kerthorok]

Is it just me, or is down B's horizontal range a little nuts? https://youtu.be/IMRVOeh4f9I?t=23s

 

[Darches]

Is it just me, or is down B's horizontal range a little nuts? https://youtu.be/IMRVOeh4f9I?t=23s

YES! And by nuts, you mean "normal." The old hitbox had nearly identical range as the bomb itself and was useless. In fact, Yoshi might still have more range on his downB. So now we can occasionally catch rolls for 11%. Though the change is necessary and situational, it will be noticeable.

 

[S_B]

Anyone else getting their hopes a little bit up for Bowser thanks to the most recent footages? The man's not looking terrible in this game after all.

Cautiously optimistic, as always.

I wish we had more footage of Bowser playing against heavy zoners like Marth or projectile spammers like Samus.

Also, more matches against Sheik and Bayo would be nice to see, since it's how Bowser now handles his historically harder matchups that will ultimately determine his viability.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Pretty disappointed in Down Air not working anymore while slightly above the ground. I guess it doesn't matter since almost its only use in Smash 4 was against Mario's down throw.

Yeah this was surprising to hear. Oh well, we probably wouldn't have been able to do that against Mario's Dthrow in Ultimate anyway considering it's been nerfed to throw the victim more away from him instead of up.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Got to play a match as Bowser. Did an air fortress at the start of the match, then did another while attempting to boost and there was a clear reaction of gaining more height. I can't confirm if you need to delay your mashing like in Smash 4 for optimal height, but I can at least confirm Fortress Boosting exists in some form. That puts to rest a lot of my fears regarding the move's maximum height and distance which were quite good in the last game. Also wow is that a fun attack. It was a free for all so I just enjoyed bowling into people who have been popped into the air. It's a whole new move and while I can't say much to its viability, it's certainly fun to use. Like doing a N-air but more consistent and lets you close more distance to reach a target. Good hitbox too, when I aimed at two opponents I picked up those two opponents. N-air is also a neat landing option. I only followed up into Utilt out of habit in the match but I'm definitely anticipating you can get more out of it now that we can short hop aerial quicker. A short hop Uair would be as fast or faster than the Utilt and I'm still curious about the true combo range of N-Air to B-Air.

Spent a lot of time air grabbing with Side B which is just delightful. I was able to go the max distance each time, but the two players I grabbed weren't my friend that came with me so I couldn't say whether they're even aware they can exert control on the move. Similar scenario with the one fire breath I landed, I don't know if they made an honest attempt to escape because they were just taking hits until I was Fsmashed from behind. Both of these still warrant proper testing when the game comes out.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Got to play a match as Bowser. Did an air fortress at the start of the match, then did another while attempting to boost and there was a clear reaction of gaining more height. I can't confirm if you need to delay your mashing like in Smash 4 for optimal height, but I can at least confirm Fortress Boosting exists in some form. That puts to rest a lot of my fears regarding the move's maximum height and distance which were quite good in the last game. Also wow is that a fun attack. It was a free for all so I just enjoyed bowling into people who have been popped into the air. It's a whole new move and while I can't say much to its viability, it's certainly fun to use. Like doing a N-air but more consistent and lets you close more distance to reach a target. Good hitbox too, when I aimed at two opponents I picked up those two opponents. N-air is also a neat landing option. I only followed up into Utilt out of habit in the match but I'm definitely anticipating you can get more out of it now that we can short hop aerial quicker. A short hop Uair would be as fast or faster than the Utilt and I'm still curious about the true combo range of N-Air to B-Air.

Spent a lot of time air grabbing with Side B which is just delightful. I was able to go the max distance each time, but the two players I grabbed weren't my friend that came with me so I couldn't say whether they're even aware they can exert control on the move. Similar scenario with the one fire breath I landed, I don't know if they made an honest attempt to escape because they were just taking hits until I was Fsmashed from behind. Both of these still warrant proper testing when the game comes out.

Good to know you got to play the demo man! How did you feel about Bowser in general in the current build of the demo?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Good to know you got to play the demo man! How did you feel about Bowser in general in the current build of the demo?

I didn't get a full impression of Bowser just from the one match and with all the footage of this game and this character that I've seen I was mostly using the match as an excuse to hunt for more info. Hence my spamming of special moves which I was most curious about. N-air felt good. It just occurred to me that I'm not sure if the arm and leg hitboxes are still different in Ultimate. That discrepancy between the two is what made the move so inconsistent for combos in the last game, so I hope they equalized the knockback now that we'll be relying on it more. F-air feels like a good poke. That move's landing lag was cut almost in half to a point where it's basically Ike's F-air. Both have identical frame data in the new game and still have great hitbox size and damage. Being able to land with it safely as long as it's spaced improves the utility of it as a poke, because now we can delay the attack until just before Bowser lands rather than being restricted to the auto cancel short hop timing.

I think one eye opener is that I can see why everybody's been playing the game so close to how they played in 4. When you're in the moment enjoying those precious few minutes with the game it's hard to keep what's changed in your head. I came into the match with a clear plan of things I wanted to try out with Bowser but beyond that I completely forgot about dash cancels or dash dancing. So did my friend despite us talking new game mechanics while we waited in line for the demo. Being thrown into a free for all with an odd control scheme doesn't help either. But I definitely think it will take players more than a few matches to adjust to Ultimate's new game speed and options.

 

[Kerthorok]

Here Bowser is able to armor through a Ganondorf jab while doing F Smash. https://youtu.be/F7LM7XsE3CE?t=55s This lends further credence to the theory that Bowser has more armor when performing attacks. Unfortunately on another note, it appears we may have gotten more than we bargained for with down B, as it appears that the grounded version can also spike. https://youtu.be/sirVkIUPXRA?t=44s

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Here Bowser is able to armor through a Ganondorf jab while doing F Smash. https://youtu.be/F7LM7XsE3CE?t=55s This lends further credence to the theory that Bowser has more armor when performing attacks.

I had the same theory for a while but it and many others were refuted by this example of Bowser failing to armor Sonic's Jab 1 during an Fsmash. Ganon's Jab is yet another example of a move with the sakurai angle, however. Sharing the same bizarre link between the Pika F-Tilt and Cloud Jab 1.

Has anybody seen Bowser armor Mario's fireballs? I suspect that move may be added to the list

Unfortunately on another note, it appears we may have gotten more than we bargained for with down B, as it appears that the grounded version can also spike. https://youtu.be/sirVkIUPXRA?t=44s

eww, I don't like that. Sounds like an easy tech and punish once the move is strong enough to induce tumble. And at earlier stages than that like in the in clip they're not knocked anywhere and can punish for free. If they miss the tech however then the move is scoring a total 35% base damage but I can't see that happening in high level play without there being a serious deficiency in matchup knowledge against Bowser.

The one genuine bright side, assuming this is consistent, is that if you Bowser Bomb toward the ledge from the ground with an opponent - maybe scooping them up from the ledge once their I frames wear off, then that's a meteor kill as Bowser grabs the ledge on the way down.

 

[Kerthorok]

The one genuine bright side, assuming this is consistent, is that if you Bowser Bomb toward the ledge from the ground with an opponent - maybe scooping them up from the ledge once their I frames wear off, then that's a meteor kill as Bowser grabs the ledge on the way down.

It certainly doesn't appear to consistently meteor smash, given https://youtu.be/q3YaIvqqfUw?t=1m54s clearly shows down B sending the enemy up and away. My speculation is that the floor had everything to do with it. You will notice that Zelda is higher up on the coal mound than Bowser, as opposed to Little Mac being perfectly level with Bowser. Since Zelda is higher up than Bowser, she rises up higher than Little Mac from the initial hit (relative to Bowser's initial position not Zelda's initial position), thus Bowser hits Zelda much sooner after beginning his descent than Little Mac.

If the theory that Bowser's down B meteor smashes at the beginning of his descent is true, then that means that Zelda would be meteor smashed since she was close enough to Bowser during his descent to receive the initial hitbox. Thus theoretically this may only be an issue that comes up in weird scenarios where the opponent somehow ends up being too close to Bowser once knocked into the air from the initial hit.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It certainly doesn't appear to consistently meteor smash, given https://youtu.be/q3YaIvqqfUw?t=1m54s clearly shows down B sending the enemy up and away. My speculation is that the floor had everything to do with it. You will notice that Zelda is higher up on the coal mound than Bowser, as opposed to Little Mac being perfectly level with Bowser. Since Zelda is higher up than Bowser, she rises up higher than Little Mac from the initial hit (relative to Bowser's initial position not Zelda's initial position), thus Bowser hits Zelda much sooner after beginning his descent than Little Mac.

If the theory that Bowser's down B meteor smashes at the beginning of his descent is true, then that means that Zelda would be meteor smashed since she was close enough to Bowser during his descent to receive the initial hitbox. Thus theoretically this may only be an issue that comes up in weird scenarios where the opponent somehow ends up being too close to Bowser once knocked into the air from the initial hit.

That definitely makes sense. Though it does still worry me about basic connection issues on grounded opponents leading to an unwanted meteor. In Smash 4, the rising hitbox was weight based, and that led to a connection issue of knocking jigglypuff too far away for the falling hitbox, at least when you used the move at its maximum range or if she was DIing away from Bowser.

Anyway, more tough guy weirdness - Squirtle's B-Air while Bowser is using Dsmash. Although that B-air's landing hitbox appears to be strong enough to knock Bowser away. But later in the same match, Bowser fails to armor the move while airborne. And that time he had no damage %. Also both hits of Ryu's F-tilt, I guess.

Incidentally that second clip possibly confirms something KingKong had mentioned. Where his D-Air to combo break failed to work in Ultimate. Slow down that footage and you'll see Bowser winding up his D-Air just before landing after getting struck by Squirtle's B-Air. But instead of slamming the ground with the landing hitbox, he just autocancels the move. D-air did have an auto cancel window in Smash 4, but it was impossible to achieve through normal gameplay because of that landing hit taking priority.

Also skip ahead a bit to 1:39 and you'll see Pikachu's Side B bounce off of Bowser's Uthrow. Probably just a very disjointed hitbox to help protect Bowser and Pikachu but Pikachu should not have reacted with a bounce off. Special moves can't clank, so either Bowser or Pikachu's move should have won in that interaction. Is Bowser invincible during Uthrow similar to Usmash?

 

[meleebrawler]

That definitely makes sense. Though it does still worry me about basic connection issues on grounded opponents leading to an unwanted meteor. In Smash 4, the rising hitbox was weight based, and that led to a connection issue of knocking jigglypuff too far away for the falling hitbox, at least when you used the move at its maximum range or if she was DIing away from Bowser.

Anyway, more tough guy weirdness - Squirtle's B-Air while Bowser is using Dsmash. Although that B-air's landing hitbox appears to be strong enough to knock Bowser away. But later in the same match, Bowser fails to armor the move while airborne. And that time he had no damage %. Also both hits of Ryu's F-tilt, I guess.

Incidentally that second clip possibly confirms something KingKong had mentioned. Where his D-Air to combo break failed to work in Ultimate. Slow down that footage and you'll see Bowser winding up his D-Air just before landing after getting struck by Squirtle's B-Air. But instead of slamming the ground with the landing hitbox, he just autocancels the move. D-air did have an auto cancel window in Smash 4, but it was impossible to achieve through normal gameplay because of that landing hit taking priority.

Also skip ahead a bit to 1:39 and you'll see Pikachu's Side B bounce off of Bowser's Uthrow. Probably just a very disjointed hitbox to help protect Bowser and Pikachu but Pikachu should not have reacted with a bounce off. Special moves can't clank, so either Bowser or Pikachu's move should have won in that interaction. Is Bowser invincible during Uthrow similar to Usmash?

Do you think this new autocancel for dair could lead to interesting fake-outs? He got out a dsmash almost instantly, probably due to mashing down and A.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Do you think this new autocancel for dair could lead to interesting fake-outs? He got out a dsmash almost instantly, probably due to mashing down and A.

I was actually going to make a joke that Bowser is so close to having Kirby's Hup Cancel. But unfortunately, Bowser's D-air has a stall then fall effect that always occurs unless he just left a state of hitstun. So I guess D-Air could be our new A-land move to replace Side B but in Smash 4 there was a restriction of it not working if you input the move too soon after hitstun has ended. I get the feeling that waiting period has been removed for Ultimate, because I remember having a theory that it was that waiting period that kept our D-air from autocancelling in the first place - leading to the combo break tech instead. No more combo break, no more waiting period. That's my guess in terms of mechanics.

In any case that clip shows pretty clearly our D-air could feasibly be used to A-Land in the new game. Though I can't speak to the viability of that without knowing how long Bowser has before the move regains that stall and falll effect. Add it to the list of things to try out when the game launches.

 

[Kerthorok]

In case you guys were worried that side B had no kill power: with items off, here's Bowser KO'ing DK with it after grabbing him at 88%. https://youtu.be/hnFhZ0ZWhlg?t=46

 

[meleebrawler]

In case you guys were worried that side B had no kill power: with items off, here's Bowser KO'ing DK with it after grabbing him at 88%. https://youtu.be/hnFhZ0ZWhlg?t=46

In the middle of the stage with no platform assistance, might I add.

 

[Darches]

Not bad, but how will it compare to Ganondorf's newfound power?
I think Bowser's jumpsquat reduction is going to make a huge difference in our general ability to play the game.

 

[Kerthorok]

Not bad, but how will it compare to Ganondorf's newfound power?
I think Bowser's jumpsquat reduction is going to make a huge difference in our general ability to play the game.

Ganondorf still probably hits harder, but it doesn't help that he still runs at a snail's pace.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ganondorf still probably hits harder, but it doesn't help that he still runs at a snail's pace.

Perhaps, but he does have powerful gap closers in an even faster Wizard's Foot that's strong enough to beat some weak projectiles, along with the tried and true flame choke.

 

[Kerthorok]

It looks like if you Side B and your opponent grabs you at the same time, you both take damage and go into the grab release animation like you would if you both tried to regular grab each other at the same time. https://youtu.be/dUq2xHDSSbI?t=37

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

In case you guys were worried that side B had no kill power: with items off, here's Bowser KO'ing DK with it after grabbing him at 88%. https://youtu.be/hnFhZ0ZWhlg?t=46

Very nice, although I believe that was mostly because of rage and Side-b being fresh.

 

[Kerthorok]

I think this pretty much confirms that we have no follow ups off of jab 1 except jab 2. This was already likely to be expected, but this is the most definitive footage I've yet seen. https://youtu.be/4zYHsEtwNYs?t=32