Q&A U WOT M8 - Shulk Q&A (READ THIS MESSAGE: PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD)

[Rango the Mercenary]

Why do Shulk players tend to switch through Monado Arts rapidly? They'll go from Speed to Buster to Shield and so forth rotating before the Art's time ends.

 

[Masonomace]

Why do Shulk players tend to switch through Monado Arts rapidly? They'll go from Speed to Buster to Shield and so forth rotating before the Art's time ends.

Do you mean to say switch the arts as in they selected the art & let it activate on its own, followed by deactivating & rapidly cycling to select another art to activate?

If so, that becomes entirely up to their decision / choice. For instance, If I start with Shield & bully you towards the end of the stage, I'll opt to deactivate Shield & rapidly cycle to Buster & select it. This way, I have stage advantage & can trap the ledge using Buster to pressure with the likely chance I can rack up huge damage. If I notice I pressure you too much near the ledge & I've racked up enough damage, I'll rapidly deactivate Buster & cycle to Jump to go for the edge-guard.

Monado arts are seen as a adaptive tool with the choice of 5 arts to use however you please after all. 10 - 11 seconds of cooldown, 16 seconds of duration, you can juggle several arts knowing they won't be on cooldown that long.

 

[GreenApple]

Hello Shulk world.

Wanted to ask for the most notable Shulk players? (best results, community opinion, etc)
Thanks in advance!

 

[Sonicninja115]

Distant Kingdom (Jerm) has a youtube and twitch. He is probably the best (one of?) shulk mains.

There is also Tremendo Dude, he plays at the Versus weekly, streamed on versus gaming and put onto youtube. He also has a twitch which is just his name.

Silentdoom and Scarhi? are good shulk mains from England.

There are a couple of Shulk mains in Canada, Artryuu, Darkwolf and another one.

 

[Scarhi]

Silentdoom and Scarhi? are good shulk mains from England.

I'm actually from France haha :D
As far as european Shulk players go, Trufor is really good too, and I heard Sodrek (one of the best German players) has a very good Shulk as well (even though he mains Fox).

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm actually from France haha :D
As far as european Shulk players go, Trufor is really good too, and I heard Sodrek (one of the best German players) has a very good Shulk as well (even though he mains Fox).

Woops, I saw a match of you vs another Shulk, and it said England, sorry for the mistake.

 

[Scarhi]

Woops, I saw a match of you vs another Shulk, and it said England, sorry for the mistake.

No problem! I sometimes travel out of country for tournaments ^^ The match you saw was probably my ditto vs Silentdoom that did indeed take place in England

 

[Monadom]

I read the threads and a lot of them mention Uair as a starting point for a combo, but I just can't seem to land it on the ground...

How do other people do it?

 

[Masonomace]

I read the threads and a lot of them mention Uair as a starting point for a combo, but I just can't seem to land it on the ground...

How do other people do it?

The first hit of Uair is set knockback & essentially bops the opponent upward. Although, at low percents, the second hit deals enough knockback regardless of art that you can follow up with a free Utilt and maybe into an Air Slash if you're feeling it. But, back to the question.

The first hit of Uair strangely has less range in front of Shulk but more range behind Shulk. This means that you can RAR Uair & cross up with Uair drifting towards an opponent with the Jump Speed or Buster arts in their own respective ways given the stat buffs from said Monado art. For a visual indicator, the first hit becomes hitbox active when Shulk bobs his head backward to look up at the Monado when it's slightly glowing. Around that time is when you want to be near the ground to land. This is how players use Uair to setup into footstool, Utilt, Back Slash from behind, Air Slash, even Jab if you want.

 

[Monadom]

Is using such combo common among Shulk players, or is it a mix up? Due to it's endlag, I feel like I should use Uair carefully.

 

[Masonomace]

Is using such combo common among Shulk players, or is it a mix up? Due to it's endlag, I feel like I should use Uair carefully.

The range to Uair is terrible no matter how I word it, so it's not very common for Uair first hit specifically into combos to happen in a match. The second hit has more range overall though & it has enough damage to deal mighty hitstun to lead into combos at low, mid, or even high percentages with Jump art. The landing lag isn't as low as Nair, but for Shulk Uair does have the 2nd least amount of landing lag so it's not that bad.

 

[Monadom]

So I take it the second hit is better for me? Alright, thanks!

 

[Monadom]

How do people B-reverse/wavebounce with monado arts so easily in the air?

 

[Sonicninja115]

How do people B-reverse/wavebounce with monado arts so easily in the air?

Practice. Labbing. More practice. B-reversing is easy, but wavebouncing is rather hard, unless there is a loophole.
Does anyone know when the 1st input has to be? I know the way to do it, I am wondering if it has a larger window then others.

 

[KenMeister]

Haiiii! Just a Kirby main here trying to gain some MU knowledge don't mind me ^~^.
Anyways, online I fought a fairly good Shulk who had a good idea of doing carry-off strings, and given good Shulks are rare nowadays, I thought to DI away from them, but that didn't really happen to be the case. Given that Shulk's combos aren't necessarily true but more or less strings, what's the proper way to DI his nair strings at mid-high percents (around 70%) to avoid getting KO'd or put in a bad position at the edge of the map? Thanks!

 

[Zatchiel]

Practice. Labbing. More practice. B-reversing is easy, but wavebouncing is rather hard, unless there is a loophole.
Does anyone know when the 1st input has to be? I know the way to do it, I am wondering if it has a larger window then others.

If you're comfortable with b-reversing, wavebouncing will come with added practice. You know that moment when you tap the stick to b-reverse? Do that twice, but to and fro instead of to and to. I hope that makes sense. I've been practicing with it myself, even though I haven't played much.

Haiiii! Just a Kirby main here trying to gain some MU knowledge don't mind me ^~^.
Anyways, online I fought a fairly good Shulk who had a good idea of doing carry-off strings, and given good Shulks are rare nowadays, I thought to DI away from them, but that didn't really happen to be the case. Given that Shulk's combos aren't necessarily true but more or less strings, what's the proper way to DI his nair strings at mid-high percents (around 70%) to avoid getting KO'd or put in a bad position at the edge of the map? Thanks!

If you DI up or don't DI at all, you'll get f-aired, b-aired or d-aired depending on the position. If you DI down, you run a higher risk of getting gimped.

Either way, you'll probably be getting f-aired. And DI up tends to leave you in a better position unless he's in Jump art (where he can string you offstage with f-air).

 

[Sonicninja115]

If you're comfortable with b-reversing, wavebouncing will come with added practice. You know that moment when you tap the stick to b-reverse? Do that twice, but to and fro instead of to and to. I hope that makes sense. I've been practicing with it myself, even though I haven't played much.


If you DI up or don't DI at all, you'll get f-aired, b-aired or d-aired depending on the position. If you DI down, you run a higher risk of getting gimped.

Either way, you'll probably be getting f-aired. And DI up tends to leave you in a better position unless he's in Jump art (where he can string you offstage with f-air).

I thought the input was Left-Neutral B-Right? can I do Neutral B-Left-Right?

 

[Zatchiel]

I thought the input was Left-Neutral B-Right? can I do Neutral B-Left-Right?

Yeah, that's what I do. They're basically the same thing, you're just inputting one at around the latest possible moment. It's how I've always been more comfortable wavebouncing. Didn't think to try it the other way.

 

[dhblademaster]

I guess I have a general question about throws when it comes to Shulk. Let's say, in a hypothetical situation, that you have your opponent in a grab at center stage at 70%. Which throw would be the best to use? Would it be best to try and trap your opponent in a corner at the ledge with a forward throw, or would it be best to throw them in the air and try to punish their landing?

 

[Masonomace]

I guess I have a general question about throws when it comes to Shulk. Let's say, in a hypothetical situation, that you have your opponent in a grab at center stage at 70%. Which throw would be the best to use? Would it be best to try and trap your opponent in a corner at the ledge with a forward throw, or would it be best to throw them in the air and try to punish their landing?

Character-dependent & art-dependent.

'Cus if it was the right character & you were in Jump art, you'd be able to Uthrow > Air Slash as a true combo given that you read their DI during the throw. If you were Speed or Shield, Uthrow Fthrow or Bthrow suffice because you couldn't followup with true combo setups anyhow. If you were in Buster then any throw does fine, but perhaps Dthrow could lead into Fair or Dash Attack. Smash art is whatever so you'd suffice with any throw but Dthrow would dish the most knockback for greater stage control.

It also can come down to, "Am I great at trapping their options at the ledge, or am I better at reading their landings & punishing them?". If you enjoy punishing landings, then Uthrow is your throw. If you prefer trapping them at the ledge with stage control, then a stage controlling throw like Fthrow Bthrow or Dthrow is your throw.

 

[Jalio_the_Brave]

Does Shulk have any options to punish the 2 frame vulnerability window on ledge grabs? Even if I have to go off stage? I've tried it with d-air and b-air using Tourney Locator's Tech of the Week "Snap Back", and while I can sometimes punish the 2 frame in training mode, it's very inconsistent and way easier to do with something like Mario's n-air. I'm just wondering with Shulk's frame data if there is any decent option to use, potentially onstage?

 

[Masonomace]

Does Shulk have any options to punish the 2 frame vulnerability window on ledge grabs? Even if I have to go off stage? I've tried it with d-air and b-air using Tourney Locator's Tech of the Week "Snap Back", and while I can sometimes punish the 2 frame in training mode, it's very inconsistent and way easier to do with something like Mario's n-air. I'm just wondering with Shulk's frame data if there is any decent option to use, potentially onstage?

Timing kinda becomes the key factor. Or I could just tell you to use Nair or Fair in a way that you'd use the active hitbox of Nair underneath you, or Fair to clip them as you're landing to the ground with the downward swing ending near Shulk's left foot. Bair & Dair can do it too but I find it more easier to Nair or Fair the 2 frame vulnerability.

If you wanna go off-stage, then a falling to doublejump Nair while the Monado is swinging in front of Shulk can likely catch the window. That, or just go off-stage & reverse your direction so that you're facing toward the stage's lip & Fair swipe. I'd say that Air Slash's startup while standing on-stage has net me some moments but I'm thinking that I did that after a ledge trump so nvm.

 

[Chappy]

Does anyone here have any idea what to do when trapped on top of platforms? I've played some sets against a Yoshi/Ness main on Anther's lately and I always end up on top of the platforms and take a lot of percent. The main stages I've had trouble with are battlefield and dream land. I know Shulk is basically combo food, but does anyone have any tips as to how I could safely get back down to the ground or avoid these situations altogether?

 

[Masonomace]

Does anyone here have any idea what to do when trapped on top of platforms? I've played some sets against a Yoshi/Ness main on Anther's lately and I always end up on top of the platforms and take a lot of percent. The main stages I've had trouble with are battlefield and dream land. I know Shulk is basically combo food, but does anyone have any tips as to how I could safely get back down to the ground or avoid these situations altogether?

Is this because you choose to jump on a platform but done in a way that you weren't feeling safe to come off the platform by dropping shield or something? If it was by choice, I would be patient & watch what they do on reaction to you shielding. Yoshi has a command grab Egg Lay so they won't mind pressuring your shield & then conditioning you long enough to get Egg Lay grabs. Ness I wouldn't know how he'd pressure your shield other than SH Uairs or another aerial from below, but just be safe.

If you plan on playing around platforms, such as on playing BF Miiverse Dreamland or Lylat, jump away with using an aerial for coverage & land on a different platform, or just SH towards center stage & FF especially if Monado Jump is active. Landing with a retreating Bair or Nair upon landing is a good thing to do since you also have the art's landing friction to help you slide across the floor away from the opponent. Or use any option you feel is creative enough to try, like using Nair but FF'ing it upon landing on a platform, so that the Nair hitbox from below can hit Yoshi or Ness.
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Oh & to anyone, can I get some double confirmation about Shulk's Air Times whether or not if my frames are correct? I went into Training Mode & attempted to test Shulk's SH & FH air times for the Monado Decisive & Hyper arts by following the steps from Foxy's Guide to Testing & Labbing. Here as follows:

翔 (Monado Jump)
SH Air Time = 43 frames
FH Air Time = 68 frames

疾 (Monado Speed)
SH Air Time = 34 frames
FH Air Time = 51 frames

盾 (Monado Shield) & D盾 (Decisive Shield)
SH Air Time = 35 frames
FH Air Time = 52 frames

D翔 (Decisive Jump)
SH Air Time = 41 frames
FH Air Time = 64 frames

D疾 (Decisive Speed)
SH Air Time = 31 frames
FH Air Time = 46 frames

H翔 (Hyper Jump)
SH Air Time = 39 frames
FH Air Time = 60 frames

H疾 (Hyper Speed)
SH Air Time = 25 frames
FH Air Time = 37 frames

H盾 (Hyper Shield)
SH Air Time = 31 frames
FH Air Time = 46 frames

 

[TheAfrokid]

some one probably already asked this but I cant find a MODACUS tutorial for my life can anyone direct me to one?

 

[Masonomace]

some one probably already asked this but I cant find a MODACUS tutorial for my life can anyone direct me to one?

I mean, I can post videos n stuff but they don't necessarily have a tutorial about them unless the input was typed in the description.

So basically, input a move like Dtilt or shield & during the shield drop lag or the endlag of your move, press the special button 3 times during the window to buffer the art's deactivation. Then start a dash & quickly jump cancel Up smash.

 

[TheAfrokid]

I mean, I can post videos n stuff but they don't necessarily have a tutorial about them unless the input was typed in the description.

So basically, input a move like Dtilt or shield & during the shield drop lag or the endlag of your move, press the special button 3 times during the window to buffer the art's deactivation. Then start a dash & quickly jump cancel Up smash.

ill start labbing that. thanks!

 

[FOcast]

Does anyone here have any idea what to do when trapped on top of platforms? I've played some sets against a Yoshi/Ness main on Anther's lately and I always end up on top of the platforms and take a lot of percent. The main stages I've had trouble with are battlefield and dream land. I know Shulk is basically combo food, but does anyone have any tips as to how I could safely get back down to the ground or avoid these situations altogether?

One thing to keep in mind is that as soon as you walk off of a platform, you can immediately fastfall. This makes dashing off of platforms a particularly quick way to escape, especially in Speed.

Also, something I figured out recently buy haven't implemented yet is that if you drop through a platform in battlefield and immediately Uair, you'll get the first hit only, which can combo into Utilt and Air Slash.

Also, as Mace said, there's always Jump mode stalling. Often your air mobility in Jump will allow you to get to safer positions before attempting to come down. Something to note is that if you are jumping forward, you can use sliding momentum to edge cancel aerials or air dodges (you cannot slide backwards off of platforms from your own momentum).

 

[Aein]

Where's the shulk jerm? 50$ mm at genesis? Loser has to change his name. Ima mess ya boy up

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Waah, I know I'm bringing up an old exchange, but I can't help it! I didn't go to Genesis, but there was so much confusion over "Jerm" in Chicago!!! The Robin who beat our top Diddy, we thought he was the Shulk! Then there were people saying he was also a Toon Link! xD

Then I happened upon this thread... are you sure you aren't secretly the same person?! Haha...

 

[Jerm]

Waah, I know I'm bringing up an old exchange, but I can't help it! I didn't go to Genesis, but there was so much confusion over "Jerm" in Chicago!!! The Robin who beat our top Diddy, we thought he was the Shulk! Then there were people saying he was also a Toon Link! xD

Then I happened upon this thread... are you sure you aren't secretly the same person?! Haha...

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

Edit: Naw I didn't go lol. Soooo many people think I did tho xD

 

[Aein]

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

Edit: Naw I didn't go lol. Soooo many people think I did tho xD

Heh, it's probably partly due to (Robin main) Jerm's similar name and the fact that everyone expects all the top character mains to go. Heck, I didn't know you were also Distant Kingdom! xD

Guys, I've got some Shulk questions. He's a secondary for me.

How's shield-dropping for Shulk? Does anyone use this platform tech? Somewhat like it was being discussed a few posts back, what if you're trapped on platforms? For example, trapped in shield courtesy of enemy jab, and during the tiny gap between hitboxes you instantly shield drop into an upair or fair to disrupt him. Does this benefit Shulk, or are his aerial startups too slow for it to be terribly useful?

Also, Shield art. It feels like it could have some useful applications for getting out of combos by throwing off your enemy's predictions of DI. Say, you know a Zero Suit is about to try juggling you out of a d-throw, but you activate Shield, di down, and fast tumble out of the expected di. It's worked for me at times, but it might just be my enemy. Is this a thing at all?

 

[Schilt]

Okay, so something weird I've run into. I was playing an Ike player in 4Glory, and I countered his Up B as he was trying to recover, it ended with him missing the ledge on the way down from his Up B and SDing. I then got him off stage on his second stock and countered it again. Same effect.

I then got a friend to come online and start trying to figure out how it works. Results were mixed. It didn't appear to be working most of the time, but there were a few times it did. From what we found, it won't work if the Ike player DIs inwards (Except one time that it did) and only works some of the time if they don't DI at all during the Up b, hoping for ledge snap.

Anyone have a clue what is going on there, or have experienced something similar whilst doing it?

 

[FOcast]

How's shield-dropping for Shulk? Does anyone use this platform tech? Somewhat like it was being discussed a few posts back, what if you're trapped on platforms? For example, trapped in shield courtesy of enemy jab, and during the tiny gap between hitboxes you instantly shield drop into an upair or fair to disrupt him. Does this benefit Shulk, or are his aerial startups too slow for it to be terribly useful?

I haven't put in the work to make shield-dropping consistent, but it's definitely not as useful for him as it is for some other characters. The lack of any aerials that come out before frame 13 gives you few options to respond to platform pressure, but you do have a couple options. Nair, coming out below you, can definitely hit opponents, and if you buffer an Uair, you'll get the 1st hit out, which can combo into a LOT of stuff if its small hitbox connects. In both cases you have a high risk of getting stuffed by hitboxes from below, though. I think shield-dropping would be best used as a way to drop quickly to the main stage when people jump to pressure you. It gets you on the ground very quickly, and if they're now above you, Utilt will cover SO much space.

Also, Shield art. It feels like it could have some useful applications for getting out of combos by throwing off your enemy's predictions of DI. Say, you know a Zero Suit is about to try juggling you out of a d-throw, but you activate Shield, di down, and fast tumble out of the expected di. It's worked for me at times, but it might just be my enemy. Is this a thing at all?

This is definitely a thing. Some Shulks like starting off in Shield, since many low% followups will straight up not work in that mode. Mario's d-throw combos come to mind, though you do have to beware smart opponents who read that and go for more ground-based followups. Keep in mind that after you are thrown, there is a window of time (1 second?) where you cannot be grabbed again. At the same time, it's something you need to worry about at high percents, because it can sometimes activate combos that you would've otherwise escaped from with the normal knockback.

 

[TheJerm]

Waah, I know I'm bringing up an old exchange, but I can't help it! I didn't go to Genesis, but there was so much confusion over "Jerm" in Chicago!!! The Robin who beat our top Diddy, we thought he was the Shulk! Then there were people saying he was also a Toon Link! xD

Then I happened upon this thread... are you sure you aren't secretly the same person?! Haha...

Haha, it's because I was a top toon link main in brawl, I now main robin second toon link.

Jerm the shulk, something has to give lol

 

[HoSmash4]

What are Shulk's bread and butter combos/frame traps on fast fallers? (Sheik)

 

[FOcast]

What are Shulk's bread and butter combos/frame traps on fast fallers? (Sheik)

Check out the combo thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/altogether-for-a-chain-attack-shulk-combo-thread.385136/

 

[Masonomace]

Self-answering question: What's the frame data on Shulk's taunts?

• Up taunt, "Now it's Shulk time!", has a FAF of 120. This means that the taunt is 119 Total Frames.
• Side taunt, "I'm really feeling it!", has a FAF of 80. This means that the taunt is 79 Total Frames.
• Down taunt, "This is the Monado's Power!", has a FAF of 90. This means that the taunt is 89 Total Frames
  

-A Monado art activating & appearing inside the glass center of the Monado during a taunt won't affect the frame data. You also do not acquire the intangibility from the art activation during a taunt.

 

[Tahu Mata]

Man, it's been a REALLY long time since I last posted on this thread. I first started off as a Shulk player that couldn't even use the Monado Arts well, but ever since that post, I've improved immensely with the character.

So for that, I want to thank all of you once again for the advice you gave me back then. It really helped out in improving with Shulk, and I now know how to use all his Arts pretty well.

 

[Masonomace]

Man, it's been a REALLY long time since I last posted on this thread. I first started off as a Shulk player that couldn't even use the Monado Arts well, but ever since that post, I've improved immensely with the character.

So for that, I want to thank all of you once again for the advice you gave me back then. It really helped out in improving with Shulk, and I now know how to use all his Arts pretty well.

I dig this, but where is the ?

If you have anymore questions you're always welcome to shoot.

 

[MaxRevenge]

Guys, I think I might have found a damage bug with Shulk's counter... Here's the story.

I've played and mained Shulk for over a year now. I know that I can counter jabs and kill ridiculously early. However, over time, I realized that I sometimes can't get any kills from countering certain aerial attacks (even though the enemy is certainly at a kill percent for a jab counter).

So I went off to training mode. I picked Shulk vs Shulk. I used forward vision against a jab and it did 13%. Okay, makes sense. I then used forward vision against Shulk's neutral aerial and it did 9% ... I guess that's the reason why it doesn't kill as early.

But ... how is that even possible? First of all, the counter hit with the blade component of the monado, so it should have done 13%. Second of all, the absolute bare minimum Shulk can do with his forward vision is 10% (if the counter hits with the beam component).

Clearly, 9% makes absolutely no sense. Am I missing something here? Can somebody explain this phenomena?