Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[Strider_123]

this is true! so people don't see his main attraction- possibilities. he has so many options and doesn't really have hard match ups. maybe mac and fox are the hardest you'll encounter. he's well rounded with:
Speed
Good melee attacks
good projectile
Defensive moves
Great recovery
Kill throws
counter options
Also because no one seems to realize this...
his shield can protect you from all attacks in the air! trying to get to the edge use the shield. (well most people here probably know this)

 

[Strider_123]

i can see him in the A- or B+ tier just as ChaoticRoy said. One thing also making him very good is the ability to use the shields in the air to protect yourself. you can always make it safely back with that. Also he has so much potential for attacks and is full of verity. he doesn't excel at anything, that much is true, but he doesn't really need to. You can also swap between offensive and defensive without being severely hindered like some characters where their main focus is just in one. he's got a lot in his favor.

 

[Jsteel3]

this is true! so people don't see his main attraction- possibilities. he has so many options and doesn't really have hard match ups. maybe mac and fox are the hardest you'll encounter. he's well rounded with:
Speed
Good melee attacks
good projectile
Defensive moves
Great recovery
Kill throws
counter options
Also because no one seems to realize this...
his shield can protect you from all attacks in the air! trying to get to the edge use the shield. (well most people here probably know this)

I never knew about the shield thing, Thanks!
but I disagree with the Mac match up. I think it is a VERY easy battle for pit as he can easily gimp Mac off stage, combo off of grabs to get mac off stage, and can use arrows to stop mac from recovering.

 

[GrayFox8983]

I'd like to get some tips and training with Pit and/or Dark Pit if anyone would mind helping me out? We can exchange skype and NNID's if you would like? =) Thanks in return.

 

[Empyrean]

I somehow managed to kill a Ness at 54% post-hit with grounded Pit side-b on omega Pyrosphere. Granted, I was at max rage (above 150%) but even then it's kinda ridiculous.

I noticed there was a "critical hit" discussion a few pages ago, but in this case vertical vectoring no longer exists and DI barely affects your survival from what I've heard. Has this ever happened to anyone else (post-patch)?

 

[LancerStaff]

I somehow managed to kill a Ness at 54% post-hit with grounded Pit side-b on omega Pyrosphere. Granted, I was at max rage (above 150%) but even then it's kinda ridiculous.

I noticed there was a "critical hit" discussion a few pages ago, but in this case vertical vectoring no longer exists and DI barely affects your survival from what I've heard. Has this ever happened to anyone else (post-patch)?

Was he charging a Smash attack? Not entirely sure what you mean by post hit.

 

[FiXalaS]

Was he charging a Smash attack? Not entirely sure what you mean by post hit.

Ness was less than 54% damage before getting hit by Upperdash.

that's way too early.

 

[LancerStaff]

Ness was less than 54% damage before getting hit by Upperdash.

that's way too early.

You sure? Rage + Freshness + Smash Attack charge KB taken increase (just rolls off the tongue, eh?) really adds up.

 

[FiXalaS]

You sure? Rage + Freshness + Smash Attack charge KB taken increase (just rolls off the tongue, eh?) really adds up.

and Ness is pretty light right?

probably then.

 

[Empyrean]

Was he charging a Smash attack? Not entirely sure what you mean by post hit.

I can't be entirely sure, but seeing as he was spamming smashes, it likely was the case.

Although side-b was stale.

 

[GrayFox8983]

Pit/Dark Pit vs Toon Link. Thoughts?

 

[ReRaze]

Pit/Dark Pit vs Toon Link. Thoughts?

Toon Link is a pretty fast character, in close combat he can overwhelm you with his speed but his range is shorter than yours, use that to your advantage with things like f-tilt, f-air, d-tilt. Using his boomerang and arrows he cant outcamp you against your own arrows which would normally lead to a stalemate, but as pit you can curve arrows around his projectiles. I dont suggest resorting to camping toon link though as he can reach you pretty fast with his speed. Guardian orbitars can be useful in this fight but dont overuse it. One thing to note is that when you try reflecting a boomerang as it comes back the boomerang will pass through your orbitars and hit toon link instead. Also when he goes for a d-air you can hit him with u-air without getting damaged by hitting him with the side of the hitbox. Best way to kill toon link is to throw him off and gimp him with arrows as his recovery isnt too great. if you can or use your d-smash more (it is your fastest, safest smash attack) as f-smash is too punishable (use it if you know you will land the hit) same with u-smash. Also his recovery does not have a hitbox on top so go for meteor smashes and the back of his up-b seems to whiff alot for some reason when recovering.
Some things to watch out for are:
-bombs go through arrows (if im not mistaken either that or arrows make them just hop to a stop)
-his dair can meteor smash at the start (doing this will kill him too off edge) he can meteor smash you as your recovering to the ledge while still on stage because of his dair's large hitbox
-his back throw kills really early near the edge (i think it kills somewhere around 100% more or less im not too sure). Most toon links ive played try to bait you to come near the ledge (either by camping, stalling, etc) Dont fall for it just stay in the centre.

 

[GrayFox8983]

Toon Link is a pretty fast character, in close combat he can overwhelm you with his speed but his range is shorter than yours, use that to your advantage with things like f-tilt, f-air, d-tilt. Using his boomerang and arrows he cant outcamp you against your own arrows which would normally lead to a stalemate, but as pit you can curve arrows around his projectiles. I dont suggest resorting to camping toon link though as he can reach you pretty fast with his speed. Guardian orbitars can be useful in this fight but dont overuse it. One thing to note is that when you try reflecting a boomerang as it comes back the boomerang will pass through your orbitars and hit toon link instead. Also when he goes for a d-air you can hit him with u-air without getting damaged by hitting him with the side of the hitbox. Best way to kill toon link is to throw him off and gimp him with arrows as his recovery isnt too great. if you can or use your d-smash more (it is your fastest, safest smash attack) as f-smash is too punishable (use it if you know you will land the hit) same with u-smash. Also his recovery does not have a hitbox on top so go for meteor smashes and the back of his up-b seems to whiff alot for some reason when recovering.
Some things to watch out for are:
-bombs go through arrows (if im not mistaken either that or arrows make them just hop to a stop)
-his dair can meteor smash at the start (doing this will kill him too off edge) he can meteor smash you as your recovering to the ledge while still on stage because of his dair's large hitbox
-his back throw kills really early near the edge (i think it kills somewhere around 100% more or less im not too sure). Most toon links ive played try to bait you to come near the ledge (either by camping, stalling, etc) Dont fall for it just stay in the centre.

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to remember that when going against a toon link. I keep getting hit with projectiles in the face every 2 seconds. Plus since Pit's arrows have been slowed down dramatically compared to brawl. It's almost like I have to be conservative about it, or get punished.

 

[Donut Steel]

So I've been told by a friend of mine (who regularly beats me at Smash) that I should be using Dark Pit more. He feels like I'd be good with him or something. When I started playing Smash43DS, I used Dark Pit mostly as a joke to get under people's skin, but I did enjoy his moveset and started to use him seriously. However, one of the biggest problems I've had with Dark Pit is that I can't seem to land decisive killing blows. My matches with Dark Pit drag on for way too long on both sides, I can survive with him pretty well, but I can't beat the opponent. What options does Dark Pit have for KOs? What are good killing moves for him, and at what percentages should I start going in for a kill?

 

[LancerStaff]

So I've been told by a friend of mine (who regularly beats me at Smash) that I should be using Dark Pit more. He feels like I'd be good with him or something. When I started playing Smash43DS, I used Dark Pit mostly as a joke to get under people's skin, but I did enjoy his moveset and started to use him seriously. However, one of the biggest problems I've had with Dark Pit is that I can't seem to land decisive killing blows. My matches with Dark Pit drag on for way too long on both sides, I can survive with him pretty well, but I can't beat the opponent. What options does Dark Pit have for KOs? What are good killing moves for him, and at what percentages should I start going in for a kill?

With good positioning his Fsmash KOs at 90%, Usmash KOs a hair later, Electroshock KOs at 120% off the top of my head. It's less about forcing a KO with Pit and more about going for a gimp, though. Oh, and Pit's Ftilt can KO effectively too, and he has better arrows. But I'd guess you'll be sticking with his evil twin.

 

[Donut Steel]

With good positioning his Fsmash KOs at 90%, Usmash KOs a hair later, Electroshock KOs at 120% off the top of my head. It's less about forcing a KO with Pit and more about going for a gimp, though. Oh, and Pit's Ftilt can KO effectively too, and he has better arrows. But I'd guess you'll be sticking with his evil twin.

For better or for worse, yeah, I'll be sticking with Dark Pit. I don't even know why, I just seem to fare better with him.

 

[CHOMPY]

So I've been told by a friend of mine (who regularly beats me at Smash) that I should be using Dark Pit more. He feels like I'd be good with him or something. When I started playing Smash43DS, I used Dark Pit mostly as a joke to get under people's skin, but I did enjoy his moveset and started to use him seriously. However, one of the biggest problems I've had with Dark Pit is that I can't seem to land decisive killing blows. My matches with Dark Pit drag on for way too long on both sides, I can survive with him pretty well, but I can't beat the opponent. What options does Dark Pit have for KOs? What are good killing moves for him, and at what percentages should I start going in for a kill?

First off, Dark Pit/Pit are designed to be combo characters. They are not rush down characters, like Sheik, Fox, Little Mac, etc. When playing as Dark Pit/Pit, you have to play patiently and bait your opponent to do something thats stupid. Also, Pit is designed to zone characters out, too, thanks to moves like nair, fair, ftilt and dtilts. As far as kill moves, you can kill them with Fsmash, Usmash, Fthrow, and side B. Don't get hasty with them, or that will be your downfall when playing as Dark Pit/Pit. Arrows play a big role in Pits game as a distraction, so that it forces your opponent to airdodge to dodge the arrow, causing them to fall to their doom with a free usmash from Pit/Dark Pit.

 

[GrayFox8983]

One thing I learned, is that his mix up of offense and defense together is what made him a monster in brawl. Same can be said as after reading this guide and character discussion. I've started to see improvement already! ^^ Still have a long way to go but it's positive! x3 He's so fast, it really makes him able to get all kinds of damage up. Then surprise them with the killing blow. Also, I think people really sleep on back air. That thing's sweet spot is still god-like. Hit that, and their stock is done if they're at decently high percent.

 

[CHOMPY]

*Grumble*

Lost to the same Diddy player again in a tournament.....

How do I avoid Diddy's dash grab... Also, what are some good aerials that can outprioritize Diddy's aerials?

 

[ReRaze]

View attachment 34060

*Grumble*

Lost to the same Diddy player again in a tournament.....

How do I avoid Diddy's dash grab... Also, what are some good aerials that can outprioritize Diddy's aerials?

I've played a few good diddys online and from what i can tell he's a fast character like greninja and the like. I guess you just have to use prediction. When you seem him running in for a grab just roll behind him or side step then follow up with a move like an ftilt. Also I dont think diddy has disjointed aerials so shouldn't pit have no trouble against him (am i missing something here?). Best to keep diddy offstage. Also pit's down smash is god like in this MU imo (then again its good against anyone ).

 

[CHOMPY]

The good ol' roll tactic. Guess I should use that tactic the same way I went around Warios bite move. I'll definitely have to keep that in mind. I feel like I have gotten better at the matchup each time. First, I wasn't DIing Diddy's dthrow. Now, I'll have to try the roll to ftilt tactic to see if that works. Have you tried roll to dtilt?

 

[ReRaze]

The good ol' roll tactic. Guess I should use that tactic the same way I went around Warios bite move. I'll definitely have to keep that in mind. I feel like I have gotten better at the matchup each time. First, I wasn't DIing Diddy's dthrow. Now, I'll have to try the roll to ftilt tactic to see if that works. Have you tried roll to dtilt?

side step into down smash is my favourite option, it does the most damage and can lead to other things like ftilts, fair, or dash attacks. Not so sure about down tilt, i mainly use it as a mixup when diddy starts running up to me because it's safer to whiff than ftilit although you should go for jab if hes already really close to you since jab > grab. rising dair is also a really good option here. try these out sometimes too when he runs to grab you, run towards him and dash attack or grab him instead of waiting lol, might work due to surprise factor.

When rolling away from diddy....
ftilit, dtilt, famash, anything will work cuz of pits amazing range (rolling away from someone also often results in a sweetspot f tilt for me.)

When rolling behind diddy.....
diddy slides a bit after he grabs so i think dtilt would whiff after a roll (unless the ledge stops him). best to use pits longest range moves like f tilt or f smash although if you notice them whiffing you can dash attack. If you cant make it in time and diddy starts shielding (dash attack normally connects for me though) then mix it up and go for a grab instead.
hope this helps

 

[roymustang1990-]

One thing I found out on my own is that side b is useful for punishing whiffed ledge attacks. Just bait them out and retreat fox trot and boom profit,and what's even better is that your side b has super armor.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I5eWE9PoWSk

 

[Sovereign]

Wondering if this is me over-analyzing this but: I've noticed that there's a bit more knockback it seems, when I armor through a move with the Electro Arm vs. when I get a raw hit.

 

[LancerStaff]

Wondering if this is me over-analyzing this but: I've noticed that there's a bit more knockback it seems, when I armor through a move with the Electro Arm vs. when I get a raw hit.

There is some kind of KB multiplier if you hit somebody charging a Smash attack. Otherwise, I don't believe there's anything if it's the middle of an attack.

 

[Coffee™]

View attachment 34060
How do I avoid Diddy's dash grab...

SH Nair or Dair away from DIddy
Jab
Grab him first

Rolling options vs an incoming Diddy generally aren't that great, ok mixups every once in a while though.

 

[CHOMPY]

Heres the match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTINaZBAduc

If can tell me what I'm doing wrong against Diddy in general, please let me know!

 

[ReRaze]

Heres the match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTINaZBAduc

If can tell me what I'm doing wrong against Diddy in general, please let me know!

Well I'd probably not do any better than you but I feel like your playing too defensive and applying too little pressure to diddy, giving him space and time to run all over you. Maybe try chasing the monkey instead of the other way around? Maybe try Pit's quicker attacks more often like dash attacking, ftilt, and dsmash? Then again I'm not that experienced so don't take my word for it.

 

[Opana]

Holding down/any variation of down for up special acts as if you're holding up, which is kinda cool and may be useful for those who find that preferable.

 

[ReRaze]

Holding down/any variation of down for up special acts as if you're holding up, which is kinda cool and may be useful for those who find that preferable.

What do you mean? :s and how would this apply to pit?

 

[Opana]

I.E. Diagonal up right is the same as diagonal down right, they're mirrored.

 

[Opana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XPv_Rf7eEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS6I0IgMBq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TktZdhXYwuc

 

[LancerStaff]

If for whatever reason you want to miss the ledge, holding down far enough while doing a Uspecial will do it the trick.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Advice for the Robin Matchup? Maybe it's just inexperience with the mu, but whenever I face one, I get wrecked. Anything I should be looking out for in particular? Any advice is appreciated

 

[ReRaze]

Advice for the Robin Matchup? Maybe it's just inexperience with the mu, but whenever I face one, I get wrecked. Anything I should be looking out for in particular? Any advice is appreciated

I used to get rekt by Robin's too but now they are one of my easiest matchups. I'd say your just inexperienced with the matchup, There isn't anything particular you can do to Robin. Best to fight him on land or offstage (He's so easy to gimp). Robin is pretty slow with laggy specials. Just watch out for his levin sword, that thing is crazy strong, his aerials can kill you anywhere at higher percents (100%+) and his smash attacks even earlier. The levin sword also has somewhat lingering attacks which last a little while after the initial attack. His 3 hit jab also kills really early (around 130%+) near the ledge same with his dash attack. His multihit jab is very easy to escape. His back throw kills about as early if not a little later than pits forward throw. In general dont try to fight or chase robin in the air as his aerials are better than yours (imo). Offstage try gimping him with arrows and when he goes for his recovery, meteor smash him, I find his recovery one of the easier ones to meteor smash. Careful though because if your near him (like inside or just below him) his recovery can meteor smash you, (which isn't much of a problem for pit unless your at a really high percent). As for his projectiles, they aren't much to worry about, you have a reflector but don't overuse it. Your disjointed hitboxes can cut through his smaller projectiles and still hit him. Also you can 'fall' on his projectiles with the guardian orbitars and reflect them from below you (Feels good doing this to thoron ;P). Also feel free to aggro him when he has his bronze sword that thing can't kill at all xP

I'll probably upload some videos of me vs a Robin main soon if im not too lazy in the Pit video thread ~ I'm still stuck with the 3ds version only though :<

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I used to get rekt by Robin's too but now they are one of my easiest matchups. I'd say your just inexperienced with the matchup, There isn't anything particular you can do to Robin. Best to fight him on land or offstage (He's so easy to gimp). Robin is pretty slow with laggy specials. Just watch out for his levin sword, that thing is crazy strong, his aerials can kill you anywhere at higher percents (100%+) and his smash attacks even earlier. The levin sword also has somewhat lingering attacks which last a little while after the initial attack. His 3 hit jab also kills really early (around 130%+) near the ledge same with his dash attack. His multihit jab is very easy to escape. His back throw kills about as early if not a little later than pits forward throw. In general dont try to fight or chase robin in the air as his aerials are better than yours (imo). Offstage try gimping him with arrows and when he goes for his recovery, meteor smash him, I find his recovery one of the easier ones to meteor smash. Careful though because if your near him (like inside or just below him) his recovery can meteor smash you, (which isn't much of a problem for pit unless your at a really high percent). As for his projectiles, they aren't much to worry about, you have a reflector but don't overuse it. Your disjointed hitboxes can cut through his smaller projectiles and still hit him. Also you can 'fall' on his projectiles with the guardian orbitars and reflect them from below you (Feels good doing this to thoron ;P). Also feel free to aggro him when he has his bronze sword that thing can't kill at all xP

I'll probably upload some videos of me vs a Robin main soon if im not too lazy in the Pit video thread ~ I'm still stuck with the 3ds version only though :<

Thanks for the advice! I think the thing that bothers me most is that I find it awkward to approach Robin; I feel as though he can straight up protect himself with a wall of spells that could appear at any moment! I think I might be respecting his projectiles a little too much. But yeah, I definitely appreciate your help; I think I just need to play a little more patient with him. One thing I definitely need to work on is my aim with Light Arrows. Nice in depth-guide, will come back again if I'm struggling with a mu

 

[LancerStaff]

Robin is easy enough for Pit to handle. The big thing is learning how to shoot over his fire so he doesn't get free charge. Unlike Samus or Lucario, Robin's thunder attacks charge up in levels, and he'll only keep the charge if he reaches a level. Keep constant arrow pressure, which honestly isn't that hard with how slow he is, and you've basically won. It's a bit trickier with customs, namely the giant Elfire and the quick thunder, but you get piercing and guiding bow customs too. Smashville would probably be the best stage for you, since you get platforms to camp on but he doesn't get platforms to camp under. Don't think there's a real worst stage for Pit in the matchup, although with Lylat Robin gets to mess up our recovery at the cost of his projectiles going crazy.

If you ask me, the matchup is always in Pit's favor.

 

[Wintropy]

I find that Robin can be tricky, but I agree that the matchup is in the Pits' favour. Robin's smashes are slow and can be easily punished, and their spells can be reflected with the Guardian Orbitars quite handily.

I like to put up the Orbies when I'm landing and catch them off-guard. I also find that a well-timed shorthop n-air can intercept their spell charges and pressure them into a corner for easier smashing / tilting, which is nice. Upperdash Arm charges through their spells and can take advantage of their long recovery animations. Electroshock Arm is also useful for pressuring them again, and I think the Pits definitely have superior airgame. F-air -> f-air works wonders for gimping. And there's nothing like a well-timed d-tilt to trip them up when they're coming in for a dash or smash!

 

[CHOMPY]

The thing you got to keep in mind when facing a Robin is where they're charge level is at. If its an Elthunder, its very easy to dodge and block. However, if its an Arcthunder, you can roll to dodge it and not have to deal with the blast hitting your shield. Thorons, you can deflect with the Guardian Orbitars, but use it when you think your opponent is going to use it, like when your about to land. Arcfires can be a hazardous thing as they can sit there and charge up their Tomes. Watch out for the book and levin sword as they can catch it and use it against you. If they have the item in their hand, all they can do is throw the book, and deflect it right back with your Guardian Orbitars. Keep in mind that Robin may pull off an airgrab with the Nosferatu. If you start to notice your opponent doing it, punish it with an uair. Robin is very campy, and that is actually where Pit shines. Pit is a character that is not meant to be a rush down character, by any means, so you have to wait patiently and force your opponent into doing something wreckless. Try not to roll around Robin too much, as she can punish the roll with a Levin Sword Dsmash. If you have a hard time approaching Robin, roll behind and jab. Like I said, don't do it too much. Arrows will disrupt the charge, so it will take her longer to fully charge it.

 

[LancerStaff]

Actually, Robin can still do plenty holding a book. Specials of course, but also Ftilts and Fsmashes if he's smart. Aerials too, although that requires dropping the book for a moment and can be reflected with GOs.