Two Observations

[r3d d09]

meh. possibly.

 

[dj asakura]

True, but couldn't that slow you down just a little and mess up the timing?

 

[EverAlert]

not really. just start holding shield a bit early or something.

 

[ch33s3]

Highly custom controls really help the ICs, just do it and learn.

 

[r3d d09]

I should just claw, it'd solve everything. ha

 

[00-Zero]

I tried it and it works, but eh, I'm good with my custom controls and smash hobbling the way I learned it. Shield grabbing after the smash just throws it off a bit for me.

 

[Smoom77]

Clawing is SOOO EASY AND HELPFUL. Do it!! I rarely touch my A button, I even use shield>cstick to running shield grab.

 

[EverAlert]

Clawing is amazing, I agree.

 

[r3d d09]

i might try different variations, but i just don't like the form of the GC controller, i clawed in halo, and that's a lot more comfortable

 

[toobusytocare]

i REALLY dont think custom controls are even close to necessary.

i mean, you dont HAVE to do the fancy hobbles and CGs and bull****

 

[r3d d09]

it's just to make it easier.

 

[Smoom77]

i mean, you dont HAVE to do......CGs......

Wat

10?s

 

[r3d d09]

what?

10unansweredquestions

 

[dj asakura]

This all goes back to the "We should try and focus on ways to improve the IC's non-CG game" argument. We have enough CG's, we just need more reliable ways to do damage and play better without them and find better ways to open up chances to land the grabs.

 

[Aglow]

Take your medicine

i REALLY dont think custom controls are even close to necessary.

i mean, you dont HAVE to do the fancy hobbles and CGs and bull****

This all goes back to the "We should try and focus on ways to improve the IC's non-CG game" argument. We have enough CG's, we just need more reliable ways to do damage and play better without them and find better ways to open up chances to land the grabs.

Bull

This thread -as well as the op- is not about "Fancy hobbles and CG's and bull****" (Because 0-death is totally BS). It is about putting it up snake's butt. If you feel like you kill a snake 80% of the time you grab him in a tourney setting , then great! I'd love to see a video or two of that. If you can do this grab without custom controls, that's great too. But you're wrong if you think a consistent way to grab snake isn't necessary. Snake kills. He is one of our hardest MU's, and he WILL try to stand in your way to top 8, unless you are playing in some podunk metagame.

A fair amount of people on this board cg like a pile of ****. If you're winning, great. But you won't win at higher levels of competition like that. Looking at the results, we apparently don't have enough 'cgs', or at least enough people cg-ing correctly. The IC's are clocking in notoriously at a 5-8 rank everywhere. Maybe that is their limit. But I don't think so.

The power to subtract a stock on command is too great to ignore. It is worth waiting and waiting and camping like a ***** to exercise such a power. If I were to dedicate my time to "non cg" methods against snake (instathrowing grenades?) to an immaculate degree, I would still take the knowledge of a consistent grab on snake over the ability to deflect every grenade thrown at me.

You play ICs. Their depth is astonishing.

Learn your tech.

 

[ch33s3]

stuff

Here's a consistent CG on everyone: Back Throw to Nana, Forward Throw to Popo. K. CGs covered. Now let's learn the character so we don't run around dash grabbing and getting punished. I'd rather play a fully competent Climbers that can barely CG (Oh wait. I already do and place better than almost any poster on this board, including yourself) than just be a CG machine who has no idea what they're doing.

Think about what you post.

 

[Aglow]

I'm not implying that one shouldn't learn the character. But, "This looks too hard to learn" won't get one anywhere. Camping and being patient isn't "running around dash grabbing"...I'm not advocating playing like a ******. Quite the opposite: when something useful emerges, expand your knowledge and learn it.

As far as toruney placings, I've been on the scene for a few months. Congrats, your **** is bigger than mine. That still doesn't excuse not knowing your god**** character.

Ragequit vs Ivasaur more.

Here's a consistent CG on everyone: Back Throw to Nana, Forward Throw to Popo. K. CGs covered. Now let's learn the character so we don't run around dash grabbing and getting punished. I'd rather play a fully competent Climbers that can barely CG (Oh wait. I already do and place better than almost any poster on this board, including yourself) than just be a CG machine who has no idea what they're doing.

Think about what you post.

 

[aroperdope]

i probably will play Popo more once i master how to separate from Nana at certain times. I believe this method can be useful in setups.

 

[00-Zero]

i probably will play Popo more once i master how to separate from Nana at certain times. I believe this method can be useful in setups.

I hope instead of separating, you mean desyncing. Because "separating" will be useful as a means of getting your Nana killed.

 

[aroperdope]

I hope instead of separating, you mean desyncing. Because "separating" will be useful as a means of getting your Nana killed.

Yeah, desyncing. Dude i seriously need to find a glossary around here, or learn some abbreviations, and a little terminology

 

[00-Zero]

Yeah, desyncing. Dude i seriously need to find a glossary around here, or learn some abbreviations, and a little terminology

Just look around. It looks like you're just getting started, so uh, just read up on threads that sound useful.

 

[dj asakura]

Here's a consistent CG on everyone: Back Throw to Nana, Forward Throw to Popo. K. CGs covered. Now let's learn the character so we don't run around dash grabbing and getting punished. I'd rather play a fully competent Climbers that can barely CG (Oh wait. I already do and place better than almost any poster on this board, including yourself) than just be a CG machine who has no idea what they're doing.

Think about what you post.

I agree with this. Like I said, learning CG's for Ice Climbers IS IMPORTANT! It's a free stock so of course we should learn and master that technique.

BUT!

We shouldn't focus our game on that. What if you face someone who absolutely shuts down your grab game? What will you do then if you've put all your time into landing grabs and doing 0-Death CG's?

We don't need 20 different types of CG's. All we need is ONE! One reliable 0-death and then work on various ways to open up chances for grabs and safer ways to get them.

HOWEVER!

Learning every facet of their game would benefit us WAY more. We should be focusing on their non-CG game and develop that and master that and learn to succeed with that.

CG's should be a bonus. A reason to be feared but not a tactic to revolve our game around. A way to take a free stock if we happen to find an opening to get a grab.

 

[Smoom77]

Haven't we already talked about this? >->

Master your CGs but learn to play without spamming grab. If you don't do that, it's your problem. We dont need to keep talking about this over and over.

Period.

 

[dj asakura]

We don't need to keep having this discussion but when people come to this board and all they ask is about CG's, I think we have a problem at hand.

I think we need a thread with dedicated advice and tips to playing the IC's without CG's. A guide that teaches someone how to play them for the 95% of the time you don't have your opponent in a grab.

 

[Smoom77]

First paragraph: I disagree with. It's not gonna be a problem. If we keep getting dumb questions like that from NEW ICs, it's not. There's no way we can stop them to make sure they read that guide first.

Second paragraph: I agree with. If we can make a better guide on how to play without grabs, it'd help beginners to an extent. If all they will do if practice CGs and not listen to us, it's THEIR problem.

We need to stop being annoyed by new ICs. They're not that annoying.

 

[kackamee]

Kkay. I guess it's my turn :\ I've been ignoring this thread for awhile now.

I'd like to first state that I don't think IC's are as great a character as most of you think. Some of you think they are the best-3rd best. But I honestly think they are about atmost 7-9th. You can take me less seriously based on that if you want to, but it's where I stand.

I'd also like to think that I have a really good non-CG game. And well, personally, I think it's quite alot more important than CG's. IMO their non CG game isn't even that great, and CG's are just icing on the cake. CG's don't win me matches. They just further insure my lead.

If your opponent is somewhat good. They usually won't get grabbed unless they have a trap of some sort set up.


But as a fairly good IC main, In my experience, I've done alot more damage without CG's than trying to get a grab and getting punished. You need to be smart about your grabs, and don't focus on them. It will lose you the match if you don't know how to limit yourself.

Don't get me wrong, CG's are good. But you shouldn't try to rely on the to win your games. (Unless your Meep, because he's the only IC i've seen that really does it right.)

And to what Aglow said, your most likely going to HAVE to win without CG's against better players because they will know how not to get grabbed.

 

[dj asakura]

I'm not annoyed by new IC's because I am a new (Brawl) IC player. I'm by no means good with them at all, hell, I can't even consistently desync them and keep them desynced, let alone do a 0-death CG yet.

But I helped and watch the Melee IC game develop and I remember how adamant so many players became about learning how to play the IC's without grabs and learning how to play with just Popo when Nana died. All we told new people was ignore learning how to the d-throw -> blizzard -> Nana SH d-air -> regrab and to ignore learning how to wobble until they learned the IC's normal game.

I feel like there are so few fundamental basics on this board in regards to their non-CG game. It's disheartening.

I don't think the IC's are nearly the best character, but I think a lot of people also write them off as needing to get grabs to be worth anything. There is bound to be so much more to the IC's than just opening up and getting CG's. It just needs to be worked at.

 

[Roller]

One observation.

Aglow, you usin' my animation in your sig without asking or giving credit son. It's fine, you can use it, and don't need the credit. BUT for future referance, it's best to ask the animator if you can use it first.

 

[00-Zero]

Lmao. Did you really create that? It's hilarious.

 

[Aglow]

One observation.

Aglow, you usin' my animation in your sig without asking or giving credit son. It's fine, you can use it, and don't need the credit. BUT for future referance, it's best to ask the animator if you can use it first.

Friend, I had no idea who made it or whatnot. My gf found it on photobucket, and I kind of went from there. I can take it down if you'd like. It's really cool though, so props on making it.