Trouble with Samus

[Foxman15]

So I competed in my first tournament this past Saturday at a local Play 'N Trade. Over 80 people participated, it was double elimination. I lost to this one guy in the 4th round, and went out 0-2. I got completely dominated. He stopped almost all my U-airs with his meteor; I had lots of trouble with defending against his sex kick (N-air), and could not stop from being killed by those missiles while coming back to the ledge. I didn't lose a set again until the Finals, where I faced the same guy I lost to earlier. They were best of 5. I had no determination to beat him, because he embarrassed me so earlier. He won the first two matches, where I had the same trouble as in the previous set. I must have found some weakness' in his fighting and/or adapted to the missiles after that because I won the next two. He then of course won the last match, placing me in 2nd out of about 85. I didn't think that was bad for my first tourney (I won $100 store credit). Oh, and even if I won the last game, I would have had to beat him best of 5 again because he hadn't lost a set yet.

So what I'm getting at is, I need help, meaning advice/tips/strategies demonstrating how to defend and not get owned by the things I stated above (sex kick, meteor, missiles). I would be grateful for any videos of Fox vs. Samus too.

 

[technomancer]

Upsmash and Back-air are clutch. Samus is fat so just be more patient and don't go for the overkill.

 

[SCOTU]

Fox doesn't really have that great of defense against those things. Note that the nair, samus' toe isn't covered by a hitbox. Note, your nair beats missles (i think). Note, you can't uthrow>uair samus w/o mindgames. My favorite thing to do is to uthrow>empty shffl>charge usmash. When they see you jump, many samusen will just throw out a nair (in your case, a dair). then you land, and smash them hard.

Waveshine>usmash works really well. If you shffl into their shield, shinegrab them, or else they'll screw you.

Vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G37nO9MOgbk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q8mXlUz5BY

Those are just some of Shiz vs Phanna. (I just happen to like Shiz's fox)

 

[Foxman15]

Thanks scotu. I did perform the waveshine>upsmash, however, I missed a lot of the time, but by so little that I couldn't understand. I was nervous so I guess I didn't use perfect waveshines or didn't walk a little in between the wavedash and the u-smash. I used that combo against this one guy who used Captain Falcon in the Semi-finals, ***** him bad.

What I really had trouble with was edgeguarding and coming back to the ledge. I'm not used to playing a Samus (have friends that use Luigi and Doc) and missed lots of Bairs from edgehopping. Samus floats so much, escpecially with the down B recovery. Messed me up. Couldn't shine spike much either. When I was knocked off the ledge, he used the explosive missiles over and over. Do I have to time my up B recovery just right to grab the edge so I don't get hit? Is it the only way? I could easily dodge the ones when I was falling down by using the shine, but I sucked at timing the up B.

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

Careful with waveshine though, she can crouch cancel to dsmash, which is bad. go with back airs, and up tilts, or just anything that gets them in the air, you do not want a samus on the ground.



and, TECHNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! you're not at anymore tourneys. :'(

 

[takieddine]

Technomancer's right.

always Drill>shine to beat CC.

full hop nairs to jump over missiles(but she can CC this pretty hard)

falling uairs to beat CC.

grab and uthrow a lot, just be patient and wait for them to jump/downair, then uair them silly.

Dash attack sets up great for uair.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i find when a samus is cc camping, shffl bairs into her. she moves far enough that she cant hit you, even at low %. other than that play normal. you can out camp samus btw, forcing her to attack you, which is a huge advantage (samus loses a lot of potential in the air). and when recovering, mix it up. sweet spot with sideb come under with upb, go over with upb, go over with sideb, whatever. it doesnt matter too much, just as long as she doesnt predict. make sure whenever you are coming from the side or under that you are ready to tech, because samus' utilt is annoyingly powerful as an edgeguard.

 

[j00t]

Personally I don't like the Fox vs. Samus matchup. She can CC the shines, and if you aren't fast enough, she can even shield before you land the upsmash from a waveshine. You need to practice your speed with transitions from waveshine to upsmash. Either that or pick up a character that's easier to use against her *coughCFcough* :D

But yeah, have speedy waveshines -> upsmash, don't u-throw as much as you would against other characters. SHFFLing and drill -> shine are going to be your approach methods of choice against a Samus player. If your recovering from below the stage, crawl the wall of the stage and expect a d-smash so you can walltech it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i wouldnt drillshine approach if i were you. with cc there is low stun time and samus has a good chance of getting out of it even if u lcancel. id rather uair or bair approach when i see a CCing samus.

 

[takieddine]

Samus has no trouble CC a bair, at early percents. I would go with shine's set knockback.

Drillshine>bair.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

This is one of my least favorite matchups. I despise Samus... Her downsmash, ALL B MOVES, **** odd priority... insane edgeguarding...

Usually wanna ban Dreamland, going for up kills.

I find nair spam to be somewhat effective, just shhfl as fast as possible, I've messed up/comboed Samus' that way. My big problem is that stupid CC downsmash, so I get in the habit of dodging immediately when I land, trying to get in an upsmash or something.

Overall I would say uh, pick Sheik. I hate Samus -_- good luck

 

[SCOTU]

Nair is cc'ed to hell. If she's CC-ing, drill kick, or grab.

 

[JFox]

Land with Uairs, and Upsmash out of shield, or simly mindgamed upsmashes are best for kills. Going for Bairs as a way of killing usually is the wrong approach to trying to finish samus. It just buys her more time because it takes so many bair openings to finish that way.

Laser spam, jab and ftilt are really your only safe moves. Unlike most characters, Samus has an answer to your shffl shines- Up B out of shield. Make her come to you and punish her lack of offense. Try not to get into your shield against her missle spam. Use platforms and just simply jumping to get around it, and than punish her for any lag she sustains.(Uncancelled missles are perfect. Predict, Jump, land with Uair.)

 

[Tundravalco]

falling uairs are the win. against my brothers samus i like to full hop dair/bair/nair and land behind him and utilt which usually works pretty well. when samus is knocked off the stage you can up b stall to get some invincibility frames because its really hard to shinespike the up b if your not invincible.

 

[Hylian]

The best stage to take a samus to with fox is dreamland. Laser the **** out of them and only do that all match. They really can't do anything.

But if you don't want to be boring..its a hard match-up...as samus my favorite match up is fox >_>.

 

[Excel_Zero]

Spam Lasers and return missiles with shine (unless you are too close to be punished by the shine's lag). Use drill>waveshine>upsmash to get around her crouch cancel. At mid damage you can do a falling uair and link with another uair if done fast enough. If she uses a midair move with lag then punish with uair as much as you can.

When edgeguarding just keep it easy and safe on the ledge. Also you can go and eat a bomb to screw her bomb jump, but do this only if it's worth it. Good luck next time dude. =D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

to whoever said bairs are worse than dairs, bair has more knockback, and less lag when lcanceled. dair can be cced easily and countered before shine. i dont say approach with bairs, but every once in a while when u predict she is going to cc, just empty shffl, waveland backwards, dashdance so you face backwards, wd back towards her, and shffl a bair. that sounds like a lot but all together takes less than a second. if nothing else it will make the samus a little more hesitant to CC.

 

[SCOTU]

From SDM's Frame Data
B-Air

Total: 39
Hit: 4-19
IASA: 38
Auto cancel: <3 24>
Landlag: 20
Lcanceled: 10
-------------------------------------
D-Air

Total: 49
Hit: 5-6, 8-9, 11-12, 14-15, 17-18,
20-21, 23-24
Auto cancel: <4 31>
Landlag: 18
Lcanceled: 9

In addition to the the Dair having LESS lag time than the bair, i also believe that you CAN shine even if they CC it, while the Bair can be CCC'ed before a shine comes out.

 

[OTRU...]

what i like to do against samus is to just dash dance the whole time and spam double lasers as you dash dance and as i dash dance i usually do 3 things: i either look for a grab and down throw so i can tech chase him into an u-smash, go straight for the up smash or i just waveshine u-smash.

The worse thing to do is to try to approach a samus from the air, this is due to the priority that she has in the air.

 

[Eggm]

Samus is really bad at approaching, so just camp camp camp and hit her when she jumps with space ariels, thats all you can really do safely.

 

[Excel_Zero]

to whoever said bairs are worse than dairs, bair has more knockback, and less lag when lcanceled. dair can be cced easily and countered before shine. i dont say approach with bairs, but every once in a while when u predict she is going to cc, just empty shffl, waveland backwards, dashdance so you face backwards, wd back towards her, and shffl a bair. that sounds like a lot but all together takes less than a second. if nothing else it will make the samus a little more hesitant to CC.

Wrong. Like scotu said, you won't get hit when using dair to shine. And if you go with bair, she will CC it to a dsmash probably. Believe me I have seen this dozens of times.

Bair = you will get a dsmash in your face =\

Dair = you will get a free waveshine to upsmash, which often can end stocks =D

The solution is obvious. Of course there is other stuff like retreating bairs and stuff but I won't get into such details.

 

[takieddine]

or if you dont want to be that consistent with tech, check out OTRU's and Eggm's posts, they are very true lol..

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wrong. Like scotu said, you won't get hit when using dair to shine. And if you go with bair, she will CC it to a dsmash probably. Believe me I have seen this dozens of times.

Bair = you will get a dsmash in your face =\

Dair = you will get a free waveshine to upsmash, which often can end stocks =D

The solution is obvious. Of course there is other stuff like retreating bairs and stuff but I won't get into such details.

the person i play vs most often is a samus main. bairs have too much knockback to be ccced. even with cc bair sends too far for even a fsmash. and im not saying jump into them, i am saying sweet spot it... sweet spotting alone puts you almost out of range, and it might be even better if the knockback didnt put you far enough cause then u could do soemthing cool like say dashdance fast to leave range and come back in after dsmash/fsmash for a free usmash.

and im not saying dairs suck, im just saying the stuntime and knockback leave you very open. i still use dairs every once in a while, but and decent samus wont stay in one spot. they can easily dash back and shmc you real fast, and your dair wont have the priority. you will probably end up off the stage and dead.

im just saying, keep an open mind. try the bair sometime vs a ccing samus it is very effective.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Throwing lots of aerials at Samus is gonna get you upB'ed. I like spamming lots of lasers first. When you start to find the weak spots in their game, you can turn up the pressure.

That's pretty much how I fight everyone except Captain Falcon lol.