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Tricks of the Trade

forward

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
2,376
Location
Tucson Arizona
So you know how to L-cancel, wavedash, shield-grab, and waveshine someone across FD, well good job noob, but you still suck. Contrary to popular belief, knowing advanced tactics does not make you good. Sure, you can beat all the kids and get first place at your local game store tournaments, but can you even take a game from a pro player at an MLG? Didn't think so.

Well fear no more losers, I'm here to help. I'm going to give (yes, give, lucky you you didn't have to go out and learn these yourself) you some the tricks, will they make you pros? No. Will they give you an edge on beating your friends and put you one step closer to beating someone good? Yes.

C-stick rolling
. How many of you know you can roll with the C stick?.... Hmm, okay, good. Now, how many of you actually do?..... I thought so. Believe it or not there is a difference and benefit in using the c-stick to roll. The difference is it doesn't move your sheild. Now, you may ask, why is this important? Well let me ask you, how many times has your sheild been up, and you roll right as your opponent smashes you, and you get sent flying back? "WTF I ROLLED!" you scream out. Sorry to burst your buble, but you actually moved your sheild right as the attack came down just enough for it to hit you, GG. Another use for it is to escape rapid a attacks. Ever trying to roll away from sheik's rapid a after blocking it, only to get hit by it? Same thing, use the stick to roll away with out getting hit.

Another use for rolling with the stick is using it to buffer. Hold the sheild and hold the c stick left, and you'll keep rolling left, with no pause in between. Use this to escape those pseudo-chain grabs that use jabs in between, such as Sheik and Falcons up throw-jab-grab series. Before you get hit with the jab, hold L or R and either left or right on the c-stick, and you'll roll before they have a chance to grab you. You can also use this technique after teching. If you are having a hard time rolling or dodging as soon you get up from the ground, just buffer it, and bam! You have your roll or dodge.

Listen for it. If you've ever been in a room with a lot of people playing smash then you know that controllers make a lot of noise. For about 3 years now I have been capitalizing on the noise. When someone is hanging from the ledge, if I hear a click, I know they are going to roll on, and I punish accordingly. Even with people knowing about my strategy they still don't do anything about it. People are just so used to smacking the R button to roll on they don't bother to think twice about it.

Jab Cancels. Now this trick, I must admit I am quite proud of. I've done it for about 2 years at least now, and I still have not seen anyone doing this. After the first jab of an A A A series, you can tap down, release to neutral, and jab again to do the first jab of the A A A series. Doing this you can do the first jab repeatedly, faster than waiting for it to end, and it's almost as fast as doing the first two jabs of the series. You can also tap down and release after the second jab of the series, although this isn't as likely to fool people since there is a delay for the rapid A's after the second hit anyways. Needless to say, this works much better for some characters than others. Sheik, Falco, Fox, Mario, Doc, Luigi, Link, and Falcon can all make good use of this tactic. Feel free though to test it out with others, see what you can do with it.

There it is folks, tricks for you kids. Just remember next time you own someone with these, that you didn't come up with them yourself, and be thankful someone was kind enough to let you in on these "little secrets."

MORE TRICKS!!!

Instant Double Jump. Ok now, I'm sure a lot of you are aware of this, and probably do it, but just in case, here it is. Jump, and then use your double jump as soon as you leave the ground. Doing this you get a jump that is higher than your short hop, but slightly lower than your full jump. Another use of this is to stop your momentum of running forward and jump. If you want to run in, and jump straight up, this is the way to do it. I don't ever see people discussing this or giving it a term so that's why I put this in here. It's especially useful for Falco, Link, Ganon, etc.

Platform Attacks. This trick is here for the same reason the IDJ is, a lack of discussion about it. From a platform, you fall through or run off and attack immediatly. Doing this you can attack people next to you on a platform with an aerial attack, and keep yourself safe from a sheild grab. It's a very common tactic among pros and works great for almost every character.

Isai Drop. When you land on the ground with out an attack your character will go through a standing animation. During this animation, your character can attack or move regulary, except you cannot fall through a platform if you had landed on one. To cancel this out, do a tilt rotation from forward to down and you will fall through immediatly.

WD back fast fall ledgeguard. An addition to the commonly used tactic of WDing back to grab a ledge. Once you are off the stage fast fall to the ledge, while the time it cuts off is minimal, it can mean the difference between hogging the ledge from a recovering opponent and not.

FoD lowered platform attacks. Another personnal trick from the book of Forward. It is possible the side platforms of FoD are low enough that you can't short hop underneath them without landing on them. From the ground you would short hop to the platform and attack. From the platform you would either fall through or run off and attack. You can alternate between the two throwing in whatever attacks you'd like. I first began just doing this with Falco and using repeated d airs. I've found it also works well with Sheik using n airs and f airs, and as well with Link, using n airs and b airs. I'm sure it could work well with any character so long as you find the right attacks to use.
 

TheSlurminator

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
54
I like to intentionally make noise with the controller when they listen for things. Like with people that wait a bit after grabbing for the person to try and mash out and DI the throw badly I'll hold the right direction, but go nuts on the controller to make it sound like otherwise. You can also smack the L/R buttons ot make the sound without actually pressing it.
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Forward FTW!
Going to try out the neutral A down repeat combo.

Do you suppose the Shield stab theory that comes from rolling with the Directional Stick applies with spot dodge as well?
 

HylianLord

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
541
Location
Cupertino (Norcal!), CA
lol omg the noise thing... yea whenever my friends smack L / R to roll onto the ledge, i tell them "i heard u press L" after i do a fully charged usmash with fox... now they press up while smacking L to mislead me lol... ah well i always slide l slowly just in case someone uses the same idea ^^.

also i heard something about directing your shield so that it goes up. i guess making the first contact point high helps in some ways with shield grabbing or messing up l cancels? just a random idea.

not sure if this is a trick / tip but if your control sticks starts to sweat please wipe the top with something lol... after getting rid of the sweat its surprising how much more control i have (even if i really dont' have more control it still boost my confidence ^^)

and foward thanks alot for the c stick rolling thing. ppl kept telling me to roll when i shield a peach's downsmash, well i always got hit in between, i guess i now know why lol
 

ShinigamiJon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
3
Location
PA
Also, while in the shield, you can quickly flick the c-stick up to do a short hop. When I was training my short hops, I discovered this small trick. Not that useful if you know how to short hop consistantly, but it's easier to execute shield to aerial.
 

Noypi_GjD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
473
Nice tricks you got there. I kind of use that sound one but with kirby when he does his fair, I tap the side of my controller 3 times to make a sort of sound that is similar to his fair, got it to trick my brother into backing away in a few matches.
 

FireBomb

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,278
Location
Ending your game.
Whoo i didnt even know about jab cancel. I have to try that and the c stick trick. My friends hate the c stick, but ive been using it behind their backs for months. :)
 

phanna

Dread Phanna
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
Location
Florida
C-stick rolling
Thread: All C-stick uses here!

Jab Cancels.
Thread: Tap A Canceling

There it is folks, tricks for you kids. Just remember next time you own someone with these, that you didn't come up with them yourself, and be thankful someone was kind enough to let you in on these "little secrets."
Just remember the next time you want to post a thread and act like you're responsible for other peoples knowledge, that you're an arrogant ****** who is full of crap, who also didn't come up with it for themselves but acted like they did.
 

forward

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
2,376
Location
Tucson Arizona
Thread: All C-stick uses here!

Thread: Tap A Canceling

Just remember the next time you want to post a thread and act like you're responsible for other peoples knowledge, that you're an arrogant ****** who is full of crap, who also didn't come up with it for themselves but acted like they did.
You're right, I'm full of crap. All I really did was read a bunch of threads in melee discussion to learn these tricks, then I put a bunch of them together and acted like they are my own because that's what I do in my spare time. When I'm not busy taking credit for other people's discoveries, I enjoy reading, long walks on the beach, and money matching random nobody's from Florida who act tuff ;)
 

TheSlurminator

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
54
and foward thanks alot for the c stick rolling thing. ppl kept telling me to roll when i shield a peach's downsmash, well i always got hit in between, i guess i now know why lol
Once you're caught in Peach's down smash with your shield up you can't do anything like roll, sidestep, jump, reposition/resize your shield, or whatever. You are in shield stun the entire time. Besides, even if there wasn't the shield stun and you were able to start a roll between the hits with the c stick, you would still get hit as there's only a 2 frame break between the hits, and a rolls invincibility doesn't start until the 4th at the earliest. If you could move, you could c stick a sidestep which starts on the 2nd with some characters, and then you'd dodge just long enough that you'd dodge the other hits and then be able to punish the crap out of her down smash. Unfortunately you can't however. If you're getting hit after a couple hits with your shield up it's because of your shield wearing down and you get shield stabbed at your feet since it hits low along the ground. Light shielding when your shield is weakened will help avoid getting hit by the later hits in case you get caught in it. Once you take the first hit you can't resize it though.
 

crescentia

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
310
That's really interesting, listening for the sounds of the controllers. I'm going to keep that in mind next time I play.
 

TheSlurminator

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
54
Listening to their controller is also very good when you grab someone who likes to DI KOable throws the right way and don't bother hitting the other buttons. Just keep smacking them until you hear them trying to get out. You can get a lot of damage like that actually. I think I got like 10-15 hits in or something during a grab recently because they didn't think I'd actually try to hit them that many times >_>
 

FastFox

Faster than most vehicles
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
4,857
Location
The tall grass
Thread: All C-stick uses here!

Thread: Tap A Canceling

Just remember the next time you want to post a thread and act like you're responsible for other peoples knowledge, that you're an arrogant ****** who is full of crap, who also didn't come up with it for themselves but acted like they did.
Hey phanna, stop being a ****.

Forward is the best American Falco. Why not listen to what he has to say and appreciate his coallition of information instead of being a ******.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
8,377
Location
Long Beach,California
Hey phanna, stop being a ****.

Forward is the best American Falco. Why not listen to what he has to say and appreciate his coallition of information instead of being a ******.
Wow,talk about the crock pot calling the tea kettle black.=/

Yes,what phanna said was asinine,but he is correct on a certain factor...
Forward was being preety arrogant,and it would have been nice for him to give credit to those who actually discovered the techniques,or atleast the source.

And so what if he's the best Falco in America,tha doesn't mean that he cant speek his mind on the subject,and you calling him a ****** doesn't make you any better than him.Because one is more supirior in skill doesn't mean that one cant speak thier mind.

Ateast phanna gave us links to the topic so that we can know more about the subject.
And lastly,chill the feck down,both of you.

And thank you Forward,just give credit where credit is due ok?
 

forward

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
2,376
Location
Tucson Arizona
And thank you Forward,just give credit where credit is due ok?
I was being sarcastic in my other post. All of those techniques I discovered on my own and have been doing them a long time. The only credit I owe in any of them is to my friend Zarelid who inspired me to look into jab cancels.

Simply put these are tactics I don't see a lot of people doing, or hear a lot of discussion about, that is why I made this.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
listening is so useful. obviously, if your right next to a pika and he screams PIKA!!! you shield grab. can you airdodge with c-stiq?
 

BrTarolg

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
975
the real "tricks of the trade" are using the basic movements properly.

so many people dont use the basic movements properly, yet, they spend all their time trying to wd, shffl and do all sorts of random crap all over the place.

i think the few most important things are avoid shieldgrab variations <or just shieldgrabbing in general> - and things like jabbing after doing an aerial to cancel out grabs.

also things like proper edgeguarding and recovery technique.. i mean everyone knows about fox using shine spike, but how many people realise that shinespiking is so situational, when bairs have more range, easier to use, safer to use, more lasting time, and often have more knockback.

or things like using untechable moves to edgeguard <like fox's dair> <or marths dtilt>

and basic things like throw combos, and techchasing, are the best ways to win games, and things like using mindgames in your recovery.
 

Sytar

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
538
Just FYI, Marths dtilt is techable - and Fox has much better options than his dair, which won't hit a sweetspotter.
It isn't techable until it puts the person in tumble animation. I believe tumble animation usually occurs somewhere around 40%~. (From Marth's dtilt)
 

TheSlurminator

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
54
Pretty sure you can smash DI it to tech regardless of the tumble animation, as you can smash DI shinespikes with infiniteable characters who don't go into the tumble animation and tech off the edge.
 

Kirakitsune

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
177
I never thought of listening for controller clicks. I'm gonna start rolling on the stage with the c-stick so no one figures me out. :)
 

TheSlurminator

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
54
You don't have to click the L/R buttons all the way to roll using them. You only need to push them in slightly.
 

g-regulate

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
7,568
Location
ashburn, VA
Listen for it. If you've ever been in a room with a lot of people playing smash then you know that controllers make a lot of noise. For about 3 years now I have been capitalizing on the noise. When someone is hanging from the ledge, if I hear a click, I know they are going to roll on, and I punish accordingly. Even with people knowing about my strategy they still don't do anything about it. People are just so used to smacking the R button to roll on they don't bother to think twice about it.
im not gonna lie ive tried to "fake a hand movement" when hanging from a ledge, to get a marth to cough up an fsmash or something
 

HugS

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
2,964
Location
Southern California (818) San fernando valley
And thank you Forward,just give credit where credit is due ok?
I don't think forward needs to do that necessarily.

I believe when a new technique is discovered, credit should go to 2 types of people.

1. The person who actually discovered the technique before anyone.
2. The player who took the technique and brought it into the public eye by actually showing the application of the technique against the highest level of competition .

Forward falls into the #2 category for many different techniques. Double lasers off the ledge (he may have done it before anyone, not sure), lasering a lying opponent to force a get up and following up with an attack, etc...

If he brought some of these techniques into the public eye trough application, he doesn't necessarily have to give credit to the creator, but he could if he wants.
 

forward

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
2,376
Location
Tucson Arizona
lasering a lying opponent to force a get up and following up with an attack, etc...
awww hugs that one's still a secret :( lol not really people just don't realize what is happening

I was the first one to apply double lasers. Da dave said he knew about it, but he never used it.
 

BrTarolg

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
975
Pretty sure you can smash DI it to tech regardless of the tumble animation, as you can smash DI shinespikes with infiniteable characters who don't go into the tumble animation and tech off the edge.
really?

ive personally never seen someone tech a dtilt.
maybe its only because i use it at lower percentages or something >_>

also another thing is that dtilt stretches quite far off the edge so you are probably too far away to tech it most of the time.

with fox dair i use it when they are hanging on the edge... do "fox pillaring" at the edge <shffl dair, shine, shffl dair> and it forges them to get up, and counters most ledgehop attacks and getup attacks <makes them either jump or roll>
 
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