Data Town Hall Meeting - Villager Matchup Discussion

[JohnnyB]

A lot of the time you can grab a Villager the second you see the lloid come out as Captain Falcon. Most other characters end up grabbing Villager but getting hit out of it before they can throw as soon as the lloid takes off, however, Falcon tends to slide a little after he dash grabs so he seems to end up safe after the lloid flies. Villager needs to be very far away to safely throw out a lloid on the ground and he shouldn't be most of the time against such a fast rush down character. Also keep in mind if you get around the lloids without destroying them the Villager won't get another one until it runs out of juice and explodes on it's own. Just don't get too predictable or you will get punished mercilessly! I personally love it when opponents start jumping over, shielding or rolling through lloids predictabally. It sets up some very easy punishes.

You have to watch out for the usual ledge antics that come with facing Villager, but don't be afraid to use your spike when Villager is in his up b. Once Villager is in this state it's safe to chase him off the stage. If you get it just right itll go through the balloons and kill him before he can recover. I haven't been spiked too many times by falcon but it does work.

Don't be too afraid of the tree either. It takes forever and a day to set up. Get in there and shut it down!

 

[Player-1]

if sonics you play are consistently rolling behind you as an approach then they must not be very good sonics

 

[Kofu]

Why would a Sonic roll at all when he can just dash?

 

[AnchorTea]

Why would a Sonic roll at all when he can just dash?

D-doesn't he rolls when he dashes?

 

[Darklink401]

He doesn't.

IDK, even just spotdodging a dash grab, I always find opportunities to use dsmash.

Not as often as I'd like to, cuz Sonic is one slippery mofo, but often enough.

 

[Jebus244]

Not necessarily. I mean, keep in mind that Villagers would have the best way of telling a Falcon main how they can beat Villager.

It's common practice to do that, no?

I agree. I went and asked a similar question in the Sheik sub-forum and someone responded like I was trying to steal their secrets... If you need to hide your playstyle or strategy to win, you're not actually good.

 

[RAzul]

He doesn't.

IDK, even just spotdodging a dash grab, I always find opportunities to use dsmash.

Not as often as I'd like to, cuz Sonic is one slippery mofo, but often enough.

Catching him in a FSmash against a high level player is so difficult, yet so invigorating.

 

[Darklink401]

Catching him in a FSmash against a high level player is so difficult, yet so invigorating.

It's possible if you use mindgames, but very difficult, yeah.

XP

Feelsgood levels of over 9000 tho.

 

[RAzul]

It's possible if you use mindgames, but very difficult, yeah.

XP

Feelsgood levels of over 9000 tho.

It's funny cuz I actually meant DSmash but F works too lol. But word.

 

[Darklink401]

It's funny cuz I actually meant DSmash but F works too lol. But word.

Anything to bring pain to that blue thing.


Naw, I like Sonic

Just, in this game, he hates me XD

 

[RAzul]

It's possible if you use mindgames, but very difficult, yeah.

XP

Feelsgood levels of over 9000 tho.

It's funny cuz I actually meant DSmash but F works too lol. But word.

Anything to bring pain to that blue thing.


Naw, I like Sonic

Just, in this game, he hates me XD

I actually am a level under hating him. His moveset is spammy and it's not as cool and flashy as I'd imagined. I feel like I stated this before but no chaos emeralds and rings implemented. Anyways, lemme stop getting off topic. From what I've noticed in Sonic matches, who have to balance patient defense with conservative rushdown when possible.

P.S. - I started DIRTBUSing ever since you mentioned it I believe and it's done me WONDERS! I catch people all the time with it, especially in the tournament I was in on Saturday so thank you.

 

[Darklink401]

It's funny cuz I actually meant DSmash but F works too lol. But word.


I actually am a level under hating him. His moveset is spammy and it's not as cool and flashy as I'd imagined. I feel like I stated this before but no chaos emeralds and rings implemented. Anyways, lemme stop getting off topic. From what I've noticed in Sonic matches, who have to balance patient defense with conservative rushdown when possible.

P.S. - I started DIRTBUSing ever since you mentioned it I believe and it's done me WONDERS! I catch people all the time with it, especially in the tournament I was in on Saturday so thank you.

No worries ;D Now you just gotta start practicin the one-chop, and you're on your way to Killagerdom

XD

I still have trouble using it frequently, but I guess I haven't practiced it enough, I plan to hit the lab today for some Villager AT practice.


Also, Sonic is.....IDK, I prefered him in Brawl. He was almost the same, but I prefered him in Brawl XP

 

[RAzul]

No worries ;D Now you just gotta start practicin the one-chop, and you're on your way to Killagerdom

XD

I still have trouble using it frequently, but I guess I haven't practiced it enough, I plan to hit the lab today for some Villager AT practice.


Also, Sonic is.....IDK, I prefered him in Brawl. He was almost the same, but I prefered him in Brawl XP

Yeah, about that one chop stuff. It really works? It's just really hard? I tried but not enough times. Man...if they don't patch that and we learn to do that consistently, that's gonna be DIRTY.

 

[Darklink401]

Yeah, about that one chop stuff. It really works? It's just really hard? I tried but not enough times. Man...if they don't patch that and we learn to do that consistently, that's gonna be DIRTY.

I've done it twice myself. It's really hard to get the timing down, but once you do, I imagine it can be VERY useful. And by useful I mean like actually unfair XD

I find the easiest way is to water the tree as you slide back a bit, then slide forward and chop the tree when you're almost inside of it. There's a video in the Villager AT Compilation thread I posted.

Its theorized that the axe has two hitboxes, one on the metal, one on the hilt, but that would theoretically mean we could hit someone with an axe for double damage. Which would be 32%.

 

[RAzul]

Thank you. I'mma re-test it and lyk.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Why did none of you report this?!

I'm not mad, I'm just... disappointed.

Since this is obviously matchup discussion, this belongs in either characters' matchup thread. Anyway I merged it with our thread since there's already discussion going on here and I don't want to just throw it out the window.

Edit: whoops, forgot that post order was gonna get messed up. I was referring to the Captain Falcon discussion obv

 

[AnchorTea]

Why did none of you report this?!

I'm not mad, I'm just... disappointed.

Since this is obviously matchup discussion, this belongs in either characters' matchup thread. Anyway I merged it with our thread since there's already discussion going on here and I don't want to just throw it out the window.

Edit: whoops, forgot that post order was gonna get messed up. I was referring to the Captain Falcon discussion obv

I warned that dude to post it at the Captain Falcon board.

 

[Antonykun]

Why did none of you report this?!

I'm not mad, I'm just... disappointed.

Since this is obviously matchup discussion, this belongs in either characters' matchup thread. Anyway I merged it with our thread since there's already discussion going on here and I don't want to just throw it out the window.

Edit: whoops, forgot that post order was gonna get messed up. I was referring to the Captain Falcon discussion obv

There was something to report? Damn I'm sorry I didn't even know this thread was updated. You know me Indigo Jeans and my report happy ways

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah, there's no problem with just giving them a heads up as to where the thread should have gone, and I have this forum watched so I usually get alerted to new threads right away, but somehow this slipped under my radar. If its a thread that could have very obviously gone into another as a post (like this one), and I haven't posted in it within at least a day of it being created, report it.

Of course, this doesn't mean you should just abuse that poor button (report abuse is BAD. Like, warning/infraction bad). Use your better judgement. If you're unsure, just drop me a private/visitor message or tag me in the thread. But so far you guys have all made this a great board with very few issues as far as reporting goes

Now if only people would read the stickies...

 

[Lowell]

I noticed that the only to-do was to create a chart so I've started the process for that.
I made a Google survey page in which you can submit the MU ratios for each characters and see the results. If I missed any characters or you think I need to change any thing please tell me.
Survey Link: http://goo.gl/forms/LA5WlALaf3

 

[AnchorTea]

I noticed that the only to-do was to create a chart so I've started the process for that.
I made a Google survey page in which you can submit the MU ratios for each characters and see the results. If I missed any characters or you think I need to change any thing please tell me.
Survey Link: http://goo.gl/forms/LA5WlALaf3

I'm surprised you took the time to make that. XD

 

[Antonykun]

I noticed that the only to-do was to create a chart so I've started the process for that.
I made a Google survey page in which you can submit the MU ratios for each characters and see the results. If I missed any characters or you think I need to change any thing please tell me.
Survey Link: http://goo.gl/forms/LA5WlALaf3

Sadly there's no way to explain WHY the MU is that number the number is less important than the reason. Like for example i think Mario is 55:50 in Mario's favor because Mario's mobility specs, WOMBO COMBOS, and ability to negate some Lloyd set-ups with the Cape.
Also Vs Bowser Lr. wat

 

[Lowell]

Sadly there's no way to explain WHY the MU is that number the number is less important than the reason. Like for example i think Mario is 55:50 in Mario's favor because Mario's mobility specs, WOMBO COMBOS, and ability to negate some Lloyd set-ups with the Cape.
Also Vs Bowser Lr. wat

Yeah sadly there is no way to have the check boxes and an optional text response, but honestly having a bunch of text responses would be overwhelming. Hopefully if a chart is made certain characters can have side notes if necessary. Also thanks for pointing out the Bowser Lr. I didn't notice that lol

 

[RAzul]

I've done it twice myself. It's really hard to get the timing down, but once you do, I imagine it can be VERY useful. And by useful I mean like actually unfair XD

I find the easiest way is to water the tree as you slide back a bit, then slide forward and chop the tree when you're almost inside of it. There's a video in the Villager AT Compilation thread I posted.

Its theorized that the axe has two hitboxes, one on the metal, one on the hilt, but that would theoretically mean we could hit someone with an axe for double damage. Which would be 32%.

couldn't do it even once.

 

[Darklink401]

couldn't do it even once.

What can I say? It's difficult.
Keep practicin.

 

[FullMoon]

Hey Mayors, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Villager MU and we want to request some input: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...b-jr-dh-1-26-2-2.369356/page-10#post-18457845

Just don't go around pocketing things.

 

[Antonykun]

Hey Mayors, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Villager MU and we want to request some input: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...b-jr-dh-1-26-2-2.369356/page-10#post-18457845

Just don't go around pocketing things.

Bruh you do not ask a Villager to not pocket things that's like asking Greninja to not swag with Hydro Pump

 

[AnchorTea]

Bruh you do not ask a Villager to not pocket things that's like asking Greninja to not swag with Hydro Pump

Why do other players think so little of us Villagers?!

 

[Darklink401]

Why do other players think so little of us Villagers?!

I think you need to replace Villager with Little Mac there

No but actually, while Villager was thought to be low to mid tier in the beginning, it's clear to most people now that he's high-mid to high tier.

 

[RAzul]

I think you need to replace Villager with Little Mac there

No but actually, while Villager was thought to be low to mid tier in the beginning, it's clear to most people now that he's high-mid to high tier.

There still is a lot to discover about our beloved village child but I agree. In the very least, high Mid to bottom high tier (of we're talking tiers). His only real issue is kill options on the stage. He HAS but they're not as prevalent as say a Yoshi or Mario, strictly from Smash attacks at least. He technically has two, one of which is most viable most of the time, particularly as an anti ai and the other with platforms/the edge. I personally love making use of his ax WAY more than people would expect cuz they forget I have it. Let's not forget our space contrôlée in the tree and the killing potential of it's sprout/Timber. But, his edgeguarding his fantastic for sure. I love Vill. Let people sleep on is though, I don't mind. I feel this character, with enough mind games is around top 10 at the highest level play. The worst matchups for us are Yoshi, Sheik, Sonic, Link/Toon Link from what I've noticed thus far. The latter three are dependent on the player but still very tough regardless.

 

[Darklink401]

There still is a lot to discover about our beloved village child but I agree. In the very least, high Mid to bottom high tier (of we're talking tiers). His only real issue is kill options on the stage. He HAS but they're not as prevalent as say a Yoshi or Mario, strictly from Smash attacks at least. He technically has two, one of which is most viable most of the time, particularly as an anti ai and the other with platforms/the edge. I personally love making use of his ax WAY more than people would expect cuz they forget I have it. Let's not forget our space contrôlée in the tree and the killing potential of it's sprout/Timber. But, his edgeguarding his fantastic for sure. I love Vill. Let people sleep on is though, I don't mind. I feel this character, with enough mind games is around top 10 at the highest level play. The worst matchups for us are Yoshi, Sheik, Sonic, Link/Toon Link from what I've noticed thus far. The latter three are dependent on the player but still very tough regardless.

I'd definitely agree with you on the tougher matchups, though you can add ZSS as well. That invincible hop is way too annoying, making her almost impossible to edgeguard.

Also at the very least we have a guaranteed kill set up with dsmash to usmash, if we do it at above 100%.

Also interesting thing with the Axe

it has a lot of kill potential, but not only that, it comes out REALLY fast, so if we can spotdodge a missed grab or something, we can definitely use that as a surefire quick punish before they can act again.

 

[RAzul]

I'd definitely agree with you on the tougher matchups, though you can add ZSS as well. That invincible hop is way too annoying, making her almost impossible to edgeguard.

Also at the very least we have a guaranteed kill set up with dsmash to usmash, if we do it at above 100%.

Also interesting thing with the Axe

it has a lot of kill potential, but not only that, it comes out REALLY fast, so if we can spotdodge a missed grab or something, we can definitely use that as a surefire quick punish before they can act again.

werddd. I fogot about ZSS whom is an incredible threat as well for many reasons.

Yes to that D->USmash btw. Just not THAT easy to land is all.

But like, dude.....my friend tells me that he thinks the ax isn't that great and I continue to refute that point. I am learning now to b-reversal it by hitting downback when jumping towards and opponent with my back to the or recovering from off th stage. It's so damn awesome. I did this crazy combo with tree shenanigans and the axe yesterday and caught my boy Dr. Eggplant. If used right, it's a VERY scary tool. You ain't kidding, it comes out fast and doesn't have too much cool down. Only downfall is if you try be reversing and miss the input, a lloyd will pop out which can be a nuisance.

 

[Darklink401]

werddd. I fogot about ZSS whom is an incredible threat as well for many reasons.

Yes to that D->USmash btw. Just not THAT easy to land is all.

But like, dude.....my friend tells me that he thinks the ax isn't that great and I continue to refute that point. I am learning now to b-reversal it by hitting downback when jumping towards and opponent with my back to the or recovering from off th stage. It's so damn awesome. I did this crazy combo with tree shenanigans and the axe yesterday and caught my boy Dr. Eggplant. If used right, it's a VERY scary tool. You ain't kidding, it comes out fast and doesn't have too much cool down. Only downfall is if you try be reversing and miss the input, a lloyd will pop out which can be a nuisance.

All it takes is spotdodging a grab attempt or smash attack :3

Also axe has one BIG weakness

if you miss, you BETTER be ready to get punished, because it has a LOT of endlag x.x

But if you can use it safely, you should be fine.

 

[AnchorTea]

Well the Link MU just got a lot easier...

 

[RAzul]

Well the Link MU just got a lot easier...

Trashed.

 

[AnchorTea]

Trashed.

Looks like Link just got bowling-

... Nevermind.

 

[Darklink401]

You uh.......you ok there Link?

Need some uh...some water?

No?

aight.

I do love using that against Link. You can also do like a hyper dash attack if you let the wind carry you. it's truly the leap of faith.

 

[RAzul]

You uh.......you ok there Link?

Need some uh...some water?

No?

aight.

I do love using that against Link. You can also do like a hyper dash attack if you let the wind carry you. it's truly the leap of faith.

LMFAO!!!

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

I noticed that the only to-do was to create a chart so I've started the process for that.
I made a Google survey page in which you can submit the MU ratios for each characters and see the results. If I missed any characters or you think I need to change any thing please tell me.
Survey Link: http://goo.gl/forms/LA5WlALaf3

Funny, I was working on the same thing. I just went ahead and made numbers for it though.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qo8y7OhQLt9KwC3-pEOaU5sGfXfbMtdTXos01GXEFdU/edit?usp=sharing

I didn't list characters I didn't have enough matchup experience with. And this goes without saying, but this is all based on my experience against both good and bad players of each character. I've been playing in a bunch of online weeklies and ranbats in order to get my skill level up. Gotta have practice for Evo, ya know.

 

[SoniCraft]

Well the Link MU just got a lot easier...

Lololol. Yeah this is definitely more useful that pocketing the stupid thing. Is there any move we have that's safe on shield in case they start anticipating this?