Data Town Hall Meeting - Villager Matchup Discussion

[SoniCraft]

I found an interesting glitch while playing against a Villager the other day.

First one in the video, the Villager ended up completely frozen in the centre of the stage. Happened after I used Up-b as the Villager was finishing the pocket animation.

Might wanna post that in the video thread.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Might wanna post that in the video thread.

Well it is pretty specific to this Matchup seeing as the trampoline is only gonna be in effect when playing with or against a Pac-Man but my bad, just trying to help out.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

if we do decide to write up character MUs, we should probably discuss both customs on and off, or just off.

 

[Antonykun]

@zackattack_056 @ Antonykun I've moved your posts here.

Regarding PK Fire and Arcfire activating on hit with balloons, that's to be expected. Balloons are essentially entities in that they have hurtboxes. That's why they can be popped by attacks and such. Though I haven't had this done to me, I'd imagine you could just recover outside of the angle that the fires go through?

Also, I'm going to be thinking about what to do about MU discussion structure. The individual thread idea has been done since Brawl as far as I know, though it's really hit or miss in that sometimes that just proves to be a really inefficient way of conducting discussion that ends up cluttering the boards (though if we did that, I think the best course of action would be 1 thread at a time that I sticky alongside this thread).

Xiivi brought up an interesting method that I was hoping of trying out, so stay tuned. For now, just keep doing what you're doing!

so when are we trying this out?

 

[Camc10]

Is Villager any good against Sonic?

 

[Mtn64]

Considered one of our worst MUs. You can beat down be with DAir or Nairs, or if lloid is coming out. The match is all about gimps and predictions.

 

[Antonykun]

Is Villager any good against Sonic?

Sonic is a pain in the bells. He has a million zone breakers, is safe off everything, and has a really difficult to edgeguard recovery. You are going to need to make a lot of ballsy plays if you want to win against Sanic.

 

[AnchorTea]

Has anyone ever met that one Pit player that just spam dodge most of the time, and strike?

How does Villager fair against that?

 

[Antonykun]

Bait the roll, use the Lloyd Flowchart as I like to call it, punish with n-air. Pocket the arrow. Trolling rollspam the guy. Really this is more of a "how do i beat roll spammers with Villager" rather than "how do I beat Pit with Villager"

 

[hey_there]

How is the Villager match up against Wario?

 

[Mtn64]

How is the Villager match up against Wario?

It seems to be in villagers favor:
You can take Wario's bike and he can't use it, thus making gimps on him almost as easy as Mac (and he doesn't have a counter)
To reset the timer, throw it, short hop in the direction you threw it in and pocket.

 

[Player-1]

biggest problem with wario is waft, Villager's recovery is very slow and easy to react to making it pretty easy to get a waft on if he gets villager to have to use up-b. Unlike brawl, the waft is strongest when it's full so there's no camping out the strong part like in brawl, he will always get a move that kills you at 40 if he survives to 2 minutes.

 

[Mtn64]

biggest problem with wario is waft, Villager's recovery is very slow and easy to react to making it pretty easy to get a waft on if he gets villager to have to use up-b. Unlike brawl, the waft is strongest when it's full so there's no camping out the strong part like in brawl, he will always get a move that kills you at 40 if he survives to 2 minutes.

You have to stick with walljump here, I've even been able to apply Lloidstall for an extra WJ if I cant grab ledge.
Lloid recovery is decent if the Wario is positioning for low recovery
BUp under stages that allow it is fantastic for this.
We can gimp him, he can fart on us.

 

[Antonykun]

Now that Wario is my third I can talk about this MU. No good Wario will let you have him bike. If you want to gimp him, it will have to be from a headshot while he's on the bike, but then he can recover high so you can't headshot him. Wario kills way earlier than we can. 110% can be lethal off a stray b-air and lets not forget about Waft which is still lethal half charged. Lloyd Rocket of course comes and saves the day as Wario has trouble getting in.
tldr Wario kills early but we can keep him out for a while.

 

[hey_there]

So how do you feel the match up is? Even? Slightly in Villager's favor? Slightly in Wario's?

 

[AnchorTea]

So how do you feel the match up is? Even? Slightly in Villager's favor? Slightly in Wario's?

Villager is way better than Wario.

It's the truth.

 

[Antonykun]

So how do you feel the match up is? Even? Slightly in Villager's favor? Slightly in Wario's?

Err i think it might be in Wario's favor just a smidge Wario can get in easily and Waft but Villager can still rack up tons of damage. Though I think this MU will change for me once the Wario meta develops

Villager is way better than Wario.

It's the truth.

You sir have not met a good wario and fail to grasp that he is a legitimate threat.

 

[Mtn64]

I think Villagers favor 6 - 4
Sure he can waft us, but we disable his main recovery option.

 

[AnchorTea]

Err i think it might be in Wario's favor just a smidge Wario can get in easily and Waft but Villager can still rack up tons of damage. Though I think this MU will change for me once the Wario meta develops


You sir have not met a good wario and fail to grasp that he is a legitimate threat.

Most good Wario's jump off the motorcycle near the edge. It's pretty easy to just go to the edge quickly amd pocket it. Villager's nair helps with a little bit of everything also.

 

[AnchorTea]

Anybody know what to do when facing a good Duck Hunt Duo?

 

[citronic]

What's a good way to deal with a good ROB who also stubbornly defends his gyros? Got my butt handed to me earlier today by one

 

[Mtn64]

What's a good way to deal with a good ROB who also stubbornly defends his gyros? Got my butt handed to me earlier today by one

Don't worry about the gyro and play normally.
Then pocket REACT when he throws.
Do not attempt to predict.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

warios fair beats our slingshot and i think thats something to consider. regardless i think we still win the mu

 

[K-45]

Guys I've been playing villager for weeks now and I really enjoy playing him. But one MU that's giving me world's of trouble is ,,.

Bad pacman and links I can beat easy but good ones give me a world of trouble.

 

[crashbfan]

do you guys actually think villager can beat DHD? Both when I have played as Villager AND DHD in the matchup, I haven't seen villager win it. his pocket is actually not as useful as you'd think vs. DHD.

 

[Golden Sun]

Does anyone know how to go up against a Sonic? the Lyoid rockets, they can just use the vertical spindash jump and jump over them, and you cant get too close to slingshot him, not to mention he can trick you if your trying to use timber(runs up and rolls back and when you least expect it, he can run up and grab you when you think he's going to trick you again). But doing shorthop to dair doesn't work most of the time and when they do, they just wait till you touch the ground so they can spindash you.

 

[Penguin4478]

I'm supposing falco completely crushes villager?

I was playing a couple games online and with my friends, and my core moves are pretty much all projectiles save some tilts and jabs. Given Falco has a ranged reflector, with a good read he could KO me at ridiculously low percentages or at least prevent me from zoning him the way I do against many other characters such as Lucario.

Also, is it possible to pocket Falco's reflector?

 

[Antonykun]

Like I really wish people would stop trying to Lloyd Rocket people with reflectors without creating traps for the reflectors.
No Falco/Marios/Palutena/Fox are not instantly bad MUs because they have reflectors. That is a very bad way to think.

 

[hey_there]

So then what ARE bad match ups for Villager?

 

[Kofu]

That's not what he said. He just said that, if they're bad matchups, it's not just because of their reflectors. I also agree with his sentiment to not just throw out Lloids for the heck of it. Be prepared to punish if they commit to a reflector, or to react if they jump/shield/spotdodge.

Of those listed, I'm fairly sure we lose to Falco and Mario, probably to Palutena as well. Not sure on Fox but he hasn't seemed as bad to me.

 

[AnchorTea]

Like I really wish people would stop trying to Lloyd Rocket people with reflectors without creating traps for the reflectors.
No Falco/Marios/Palutena/Fox are not instantly bad MUs because they have reflectors. That is a very bad way to think.

Very well said!

You deserve a donut.

 

[AnchorTea]

So then what ARE bad match ups for Villager?

Sonic
Mario
Sheik
Anyone fast
Villager

 

[Penguin4478]

Like I really wish people would stop trying to Lloyd Rocket people with reflectors without creating traps for the reflectors.
No Falco/Marios/Palutena/Fox are not instantly bad MUs because they have reflectors. That is a very bad way to think.

I rarely use lloid rockets, and mostly do it when attempting to get back on the ledge (not using as a recovery, but as a way to prevent chasing and edgeguarding when recovering). I also occasionally use it as a mix-up or to make it easier for certain setups/approaches. I mostly just use fairs and bairs with short hops, but villager's fsmash, timber, fair/bair, dash, and lloid rocket are all counted as projectiles. It just generally makes it hard for me to KO without my opponent being at relatively high percents.

 

[Antonykun]

I rarely use lloid rockets, and mostly do it when attempting to get back on the ledge (not using as a recovery, but as a way to prevent chasing and edgeguarding when recovering). I also occasionally use it as a mix-up or to make it easier for certain setups/approaches. I mostly just use fairs and bairs with short hops, but villager's fsmash, timber, fair/bair, dash, and lloid rocket are all counted as projectiles. It just generally makes it hard for me to KO without my opponent being at relatively high percents.

I would recommend you start using Lloyd as a trap set up in the very least. @Volya showed us some easy traps you can do with Lloyd

- Launch side b
- Run with it
- If the opponent roll in your direction, stop running and grab him
- If the opponent roll backward, he'll get hit by the missile
- If the opponent just shield the missile, grab him
- If the opponent do a short hop to dodge the missile, usmash him
- If the opponent do a large jump to dodge the missile, try to fair/uair him

Best option for throwing is downthrow at low % (or upthrow for lil mac so you can have fun with him in the air) and backthrow when you're close to the edge of the stage

.
I would add jumping just out of the reach of your opponents reflector and D-air if they have a reflector

 

[MJG]

I would recommend you start using Lloyd as a trap set up in the very least. @Volya showed us some easy traps you can do with Lloyd
.
I would add jumping just out of the reach of your opponents reflector and D-air if they have a reflector

The last bit definitely correlates with your other post in regards to characters with reflector's. Baiting moves out like this is an easy punish and a good way to help swing momentum (or at the very least, controll) in your favor for the time being. I'll stop by everyday before Apex to make sure I have all the right tools under my belt =)

 

[MJG]

The last bit definitely correlates with your other post in regards to characters with reflector's. Baiting moves out like this is an easy punish and a good way to help swing momentum (or at the very least, controll) in your favor for the time being. I'll stop by everyday before Apex to make sure I have all the right tools under my belt =)

Edit: I guess I should update my avi at some point...so hard for me to break the bond x)
Edit2: Wow its been awhile since i've used this site frequently. Sorry about the double posts Mods lol...

 

[Cenizas]

What do you guys feel about Sheik?

 

[Rockaphin]

What do you guys feel about Sheik?

Personally, I find this match-up to be near as bad as Sonic. Something that I found to be very helpful though is that Lloid can tank needles very well. Tree also applies here. Problem is that Sheik is so darn fast that it's hard to keep her away from you. I don't think a pocketed grenade explodes either, which would've been nice but ehhh.

 

[Liduso]

I'm having immense issues with Villagers, and just they're entire playstyle in general in For Glory.

Tree. Missile. Missile. Missile.
When I approach, the tree falls, so I dodge it.
Kite, slingshot, Kite. Run other direction

Then suddenly he's at the opposite side of the stage to do it again for all infinity.

I had this happen for two minutes and could only land minor neutral A's, nothing kill-worthy. I clearly had the lead but with all the kiting the game timed out and sudden death kicked in.

Then I got rained on by bombs and died because he kept spamming pocket to dodge the bombs.

This wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't literally every villager I have fought since release.

Thankfully, I've only seen the character 6 times.
Yes I counted because I'm salty. But still that's besides the point.

How do I kill this guy with C.Falcon?

 

[Kohak]

Lloid spam is easy for Falcon to avoid since he's so fast. Jump, run, space, shield.

I would suggest that you go to training mode and study the hitboxes of Villagers tree. It can kill you as it comes up, falls, and bounces on the floor. But the set up takes a while and if you know when the hitboxes are not active and when they end it leaves you with an opening. Tree spam is deadly but it's very easy to predict and avoid.