Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

[#HBC | Kary]

<3 Swissai :D

WATT, you've spent most of your time asking other people for reads but you don't show any real direction. First you hop BSP, then you hop BW, without any particular explanation, and apparently you don't mind which goes. You really don't like me being inactive, you're looking at Vinyl of all people on a BW scumflip (but not pushing him now). Your #834

What's the justification for Badwolf to so transparently deny reads to people even when his town picks ask him nicely?

is full of weak, reachy reasoning to be on a waggon, and when put under the slightest pressure you look defensive;

We've done everything anyone has asked of us, and put our reads out there on our own terms.

i'm very happy with this vote all things considered. if you disagree with it please do offer me an alternative, i'm interested to hear what you want to push.

 

[Rajam]

At any rate, I gotta make things short.

RadFic vs. Soup was, for lack of better term, interesting. RadFic came in and posted his usual ****, Soup said no, RadFic immediately went the extreme route and voted him for it, though I think he mentioned something about Soup's inactive policy later. Soup immediately got defensive about it(!) and snapped back. RadFic bullied him as long as he thought he could get away with it, left it alone on page 6 (40ppp) after a BSP wagon popped up that.

If that is TvS, it's in RadFic's favor at the moment. Not necessarily because of what RadFic's said, I simply think that everything he did was drawing out trying to get under Soup's skin to get a read on him.

What I don't get is Soup doubling back on the whole "working with me" thing. RadFic asked Soup to hold his hand in his first post of the game, Soup denied it, and then Soup immediately tried to double back and get something out of RadFic...why? Sketchy. RadFic won't give away jack**** to a scumread and he should know that. Hard to say though, I've been gone awhile. Null at best right now, gonna see what he does.

BadWolf's immediate townread from both of RadFic's first post in the game is weird. Null actions/questions at the start of the game should not immediately be read as town.

BSP's lack of commitment to important issues and sudden assurance in RadFic's Soup read is unsettling to me. He denies it, but I don't think he has a real reason for understanding the confidence in it. RadFic himself had no reason to be that confident in a scumSoup read at the time and it shows by how he later backed off. I like the pressure there at the moment.

vote: BSP

I like this KevMo and want to play more games with him.

Vinyl is an ***.

What did you mean here with "weird"? What did it tell you about BadWolf? Not liking how you leave this so open with no conclusion on the player given your explanation of how so-early actions in the game shouldn't be read as town... is like you want to give a message but you didn't want to take the explicit posture...

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I'm willing to kill WOTT for suggesting that town swallows a no lucn

dead serious.

Vote WOTT

That was brought up as a situation to be avoided *******. Neither of us want a No Lynch situation.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Even pointing out that theres a possibility of a no lynch without painting it in a completely town has ****ed up way is scummy.

Like holy **** don't excuse that.

I did *******. No one wants that, that's why we'd have to "swallow" it, like a terrible pill forced upon us for all our sins.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

<3 Swissai :D

WATT, you've spent most of your time asking other people for reads but you don't show any real direction. First you hop BSP, then you hop BW, without any particular explanation, and apparently you don't mind which goes. You really don't like me being inactive, you're looking at Vinyl of all people on a BW scumflip (but not pushing him now). Your #834

is full of weak, reachy reasoning to be on a waggon, and when put under the slightest pressure you look defensive;
i'm very happy with this vote all things considered. if you disagree with it please do offer me an alternative, i'm interested to hear what you want to push.

I'm not scared of this at all Kary. If you can't see the contradiction between us spearheading the BW wagon and "no real direction" you've lost touch with what it means to have a direction. My partner in law enforcement is ok with BSP going still, I however am really not anymore. We'd take it over a No Lynch, but don't try to paint the ability to compromise as scum intent.

An alternative is to join us on BW who still needs to flip in short order. How are you not seeing the fact he isn't even remotely concerned with being pro-town and is just floating around avoiding questions instead?

(and yes, we don't like how you've been acting up till this point, it reminds me of being your scum partner in Tekken where we just sort of sidelined and thumbed our noses at people at first)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

We would rather not vote Badwolf if possible. However, I don't like how this post strikes very similar to how Rajam is explaining your play.

Alright, good to know. How so on the second bit?

 

[Dooms]

Looks like the opposition for either lynch is too strong - either by the quality of the players or by their quantity. Willing to compromise-lynch Gangsta, MiR, WATT, Jeoy and PJB in that order. Yep, that's a long list but I feel like none of them would be a loss if we just lynched them.

Still feeling most comfortable with lynching BSP but I guess most people just can't see it. Sent a PM to JTB so he'll be ready to switch votes to prevent a No Lynch in case I'm not on around the time deadline hits.

You're saying we "wouldn't be a loss", yet you're not willing to lynch Bad Wolf?

He's obviously more useful than all of those players.

Oh wait. He's not doing anything outside of riding Rad Fic's ****.

That makes him useful, right?

 

[Dooms]

Kary, why should Soup compromise to BSP when the quantity on this wagon is larger than the quantity on BSP, especially when he has a town read on him?

That's kind of a stupid question to ask honestly :v.

Anyone up for a Kary lynch? His play has been everything but useful, he's not hunting for scum in the slightest, and when he does actually post, it's all BS. Unless he changes the way he's playing, he should definitely be lynched before day 3 imo.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm not scared of this at all Kary. If you can't see the contradiction between us spearheading the BW wagon and "no real direction" you've lost touch with what it means to have a direction. My partner in law enforcement is ok with BSP going still, I however am really not anymore. We'd take it over a No Lynch, but don't try to paint the ability to compromise as scum intent.

nah i'm not trying to scare you. if anything i'm trying to explain how I think you're scum so people will get on board.
i'm not trying to say that you don't have direction; i just don't think you're trying to develop your reads, you're just voting whatever looks easiest to lynch.
and i'm not trying to say that a compromise is scummy; i just don't think that's what you're doing, because I don't think you actually care which one of BSP/BW goes.

An alternative is to join us on BW who still needs to flip in short order. How are you not seeing the fact he isn't even remotely concerned with being pro-town and is just floating around avoiding questions instead?

yes and if being anti-town meant he was scum i'd be all over his case. But I just made this exact point against you, that you're bringing up surface-level 'bad' things badwolf has done, and calling him scum based on that, apparently without trying to actually read him for intent.

(and yes, we don't like how you've been acting up till this point, it reminds me of being your scum partner in Tekken where we just sort of sidelined and thumbed our noses at people at first)

that's right kids, kary might be scum! please
you mean that game where i made an effort to make a good entrance, and to ask lots of pro-town questions? given that you don't like my 'act', how have you made an effort to actually push a read on my slot?

i'm really enjoying this argument with you because i know i'm not the one who's going to scumflip. but then you probably knew that

 

[Dooms]

Eep. Take back the last thing that I said about Kary. He made a change o:.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

nice ninja joey

Kary, why should Soup compromise to BSP when the quantity on this wagon is larger than the quantity on BSP, especially when he has a town read on him?

because we're heading towards a no lynch, which would arguably be worse;
and because i wanted to know how strong soup's townread on badwolf was

Anyone up for a Kary lynch? His play has been everything but useful, he's not hunting for scum in the slightest, and when he does actually post, it's all BS. Unless he changes the way he's playing, he should definitely be lynched before day 3 imo.

joey do you actually have a read on me or is this you pushing for one? nice backdoor either way

 

[#HBC | Kary]

again nice ninja

i'll also take back my attempt to wind joey up

and i suppose while i'm at it apologize for some very lazy play earlier toDay.

//////////

 

[Inglorious Retards]

You're saying we "wouldn't be a loss", yet you're not willing to lynch Bad Wolf?

He's obviously more useful than all of those players.

The sad irony is that you people don't realize that he's actually a LOT more useful than most of you pathetic sheeps are. His death would be a loss because he is willing to look at issues from an angle that you guys wouldn't even care to look because you're too busy being conformistic tools who just go with the flow without actually ... playing this game. And it's exactly that reason that makes you just as expandable as all the other players I mentioned.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

wow jeepers

i take IR off ignore for a second and look what happens

for the love of gorf please tone down the tone, i mean, i'm not going to have to look at it but i feel sorry for everyone else.

 

[Dooms]

I do not have a read on you. I honestly suggested it for the reason that you're asking Soup for a compromise. I'd prefer to lynch someone that hasn't done much if we're not going to be getting rid of someone that has been scummy, especially over a no lynch. .

@IR: I find it funny that 4/5ths of the people you mentioned are on the BW wagon lool.

BW hasn't played the game well at all. He started off with sheeping Rad Fic, and now he's gone into a deep pit of defending himself. He's not really doing much at all outside of defending himself at this point, and he's definitely not scum hunting unless I'm missing something. I don't see an intent to find scum from his play, and unless you can point it out to me, I have no reason to "stop being a sheep." Point out how he's useful with evidence, and I'll probably switch off. I haven't seen how he's useful, and I definitely haven't seen how his lack of scum hunting isn't scummy.

Give me a legit, convincing reason to leave this wagon, and I will. Show me that I'm wrong. Even if I'm a "sheep", I'm still a person that has my own opinion and you still have to convince people like me with your reasoning in order to get a lynch going in the direction you want it to go in. You're just doing a poor job of being convincing (if you're even trying at this point).

Telling me and others to start "playing the game" and saying that you're willing to lynch me and the others on the BadWolf wagon just because we're not doing what you're wanting us to and some of us haven't went into detailed paragraphs about why we're on this wagon will not do anything for you, and it's not scary in the slightest, nor is it making me think "wow, Gheb is right, I need to really rethink all of this".

You're one to talk about not playing the game if you're not going to bring the evidence. I haven't been playing much, but WATT has been, Gangstalicious brought new ideas to the table when he posted last, and PJB hasn't been "useless".

Unless you're defining useless as "not following you like they're your *****", we haven't been more useless than BadWolf. Prove me wrong .

 

[BSP]

What was the point of the post if all the things were true at some[\i] point? I mean I'd already explained, I did what I needed to but still the post... What did you want?

IR said that you had not been scummy. I disagreed and showed why.

Looks like the opposition for either lynch is too strong - either by the quality of the players or by their quantity. Willing to compromise-lynch Gangsta, MiR, WATT, Jeoy and PJB in that order. Yep, that's a long list but I feel like none of them would be a loss if we just lynched them.

How do you feel about Vinyl? I'm also surprised you'd suggest WATT going before him, especially if you're talking about who wouldn't be a loss.

I took a look at WATT. I'm not understanding the votes on them. They've been questioning everyone the entire Day, and I'm not seeing any scum intent in their posts. If you're worried about them not giving stances (which they have, when asked), I don't see why you can't just ask them for some. I will give them a town lean.

Kary, how do you feel about RadFic and IR?

 

[BSP]

Gangsta, w.r.t. your #442 and #744, what made me go from scum to town?

 

[Gangstalicious]

BW isn't scum. How many times do we have to say this? He has been put in a bad situation and is merely struggling to get out because of all the pressure that's being put on him. It's not hard to understand.

@IR - I need you to do 3 perfect little things for me: 1. Cut your ego and get off your armchair. 2. Stop criticizing and belittling everyone. 3. Start actually scum hunting and playing the game. We don't like your attitude and once we get that X-factor out of the way you could prove yourself to be helpful.

@Soup - Give 3 people you would vote for and state why.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

nah i'm not trying to scare you. if anything i'm trying to explain how I think you're scum so people will get on board.
i'm not trying to say that you don't have direction; i just don't think you're trying to develop your reads, you're just voting whatever looks easiest to lynch.
and i'm not trying to say that a compromise is scummy; i just don't think that's what you're doing, because I don't think you actually care which one of BSP/BW goes.


yes and if being anti-town meant he was scum i'd be all over his case. But I just made this exact point against you, that you're bringing up surface-level 'bad' things badwolf has done, and calling him scum based on that, apparently without trying to actually read him for intent.


that's right kids, kary might be scum! please
you mean that game where i made an effort to make a good entrance, and to ask lots of pro-town questions? given that you don't like my 'act', how have you made an effort to actually push a read on my slot?

i'm really enjoying this argument with you because i know i'm not the one who's going to scumflip. but then you probably knew that

I'm afraid then I have bad news, because I actually do care who of BSP/BW goes. I feel BSP is far likelier to be town than BW, I know what Orbo said earlier but that's the risk you run when in a hydra.

Don't try to swing me explaining why we're concerned about you and trying to get a read on your slot as weak scum mudslinging on your slot, it has the opposite effect when it falls through.

BW isn't scum. How many times do we have to say this? He has been put in a bad situation and is merely struggling to get out because of all the pressure that's being put on him. It's not hard to understand.

@IR - I need you to do 3 perfect little things for me: 1. Cut your ego and get off your armchair. 2. Stop criticizing and belittling everyone. 3. Start actually scum hunting and playing the game. We don't like your attitude and once we get that X-factor out of the way you could prove yourself to be helpful.

@Soup - Give 3 people you would vote for and state why.

I don't feel that way. I don't think it's fair to say BW is "struggling to get out" when he really isn't. I'd expect struggling to get out to mean he was at least trying to explain himself recently and I don't feel like he has at all. He refused to give out his explanations for his top scum and town picks etc. and earlier just arguing with Soup instead of talking to him.

I think a fairer assessment would be "refuses to act town". Before Kary was pointing out that he doesn't think I'm reading BW's intent, which I think isn't true. A more fair assessment would be "I tried to read BW's town intent and found he had none"

 

[Gangstalicious]

Gangsta, w.r.t. your #442 and #744, what made me go from scum to town?

Originally I (inferno) thought some of your responses and flailing were scummy. When J read up we chatted on Skype and conversed our reads. J shed a different view on you saying that you are town and that you were just being pushed because you are a less experienced slot. At the end he convinced me that you aren't scum and I will trust his read.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

(Like I know I'm beating a super dead horse, but I just feel like the fact Badwolf still isn't responding at the crucial hour is speaking for itself)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Vote Badwolf anyone? Anyone at all?

We've got 2 and a half hours left and no ones even close to being lynched, and apparently peeps are all just gone :<

@Mod: Request vote count


Soup: Come back to Badwolf?

RadFic: Badwolf Y/N?

BSP: Are you on Badwolf?

Rajam: Badwolf?


... Kevmo: Anyone who might go somewhere?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If all anyone needs is just someone to take the heat: I'll be the fall guy for the Badwolf wagon if it goes bad. I don't mind, I'm pretty confident it's the right move to make.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Scratch that Deadline Extended 3 days for Make it Rain! replacement.

Nevermind, just saw this. As you were gentlemen.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nabe Replaces Make it Rain!

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Scratch that Deadline Extended 3 days for Make it Rain! replacement.

Oh.
Oho.
Someone's getting some sleep then~

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Soup - Give 3 people you would vote for and state why.

You, BW, Vinyl. or any other lurker. I still don't understand the WATT hate, and I did read into it. It's odd because I'm sticking with my gut with previous reasoning, as I really did feel they were town based on how they interacted with me early on. I've explained you, and BW is someone that doesn't need anymore explaining.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vinyl. just because his reason BSP is piss-poor and I'm not factoring the possibility of him being DumbTown, because DumbTown would have a reason at least. Vinyl. has nothing and frankly he won't be getting killed anytime soon either.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup: Come back to Badwolf?

Yeah.

Vote: Badwolf

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

BW isn't scum. How many times do we have to say this? He has been put in a bad situation and is merely struggling to get out because of all the pressure that's being put on him. It's not hard to understand.

I have my doubts but I won't let myself second-guess this. I've let too much scum get away from me because of uncertainty. I know who I want regardless of either flip.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea.. not feeling the "BW is just struggling because he's under pressure" argument. He has had A LOT of time to straighten his **** out and explain his reads. He hasn't been under any more pressure than any other player. The difference between him any everyone else is NOT simply that he has the biggest wagon on him, it's that he is just regurgitating other people's words wrt BSP/Soup, and is completely unable to explain what those words even mean. All he has done is point at random *** looking quotes, and hide while other people try to take the heat off him.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I took a look at WATT. I'm not understanding the votes on them. They've been questioning everyone the entire Day, and I'm not seeing any scum intent in their posts.

I'm not seeing any town intent. I'm just seeing 'hey X, what's your read on Y?' which is such lackluster scumhunting. Then there's the other stuff I mentioned.

Don't try to swing me explaining why we're concerned about you and trying to get a read on your slot as weak scum mudslinging on your slot, it has the opposite effect when it falls through.

Ok well given my play this game does not remind me of my play that game, you ought to elaborate on the similarity in case I or anyone else get the impression you're spreading around low level dislike.
Also since when were you trying to get a read on my slot? I just recall you saying 'sort it out Kary' at one point, that was about it.

"I tried to read BW's town intent and found he had none"

did you find any scum intent?
Because if I saw a player who generally disliked being pressured giving up on/ignoring a game after receiving early pressure, i wouldn't just assume they were scum.

(Like I know I'm beating a super dead horse, but I just feel like the fact Badwolf still isn't responding at the crucial hour is speaking for itself)

see above, no it doesn't.

If all anyone needs is just someone to take the heat: I'll be the fall guy for the Badwolf wagon if it goes bad. I don't mind, I'm pretty confident it's the right move to make.

ewww

this looks like a terrible play if you're town. i don't know how you can be so confident, and I don't know why if you're town you'd put yourself in the firing line. Just reads like you trying to rush the lynch. do not like.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yea.. not feeling the "BW is just struggling because he's under pressure" argument. He has had A LOT of time to straighten his **** out and explain his reads. He hasn't been under any more pressure than any other player. The difference between him any everyone else is NOT simply that he has the biggest wagon on him, it's that he is just regurgitating other people's words wrt BSP/Soup, and is completely unable to explain what those words even mean. All he has done is point at random *** looking quotes, and hide while other people try to take the heat off him.

bolded: which game have you been playing? /rhetorical

underlined; elaborate on what it means for other players to be taking the heat off of him. does this suggest badwolf is town or scum? and what does it say about those players; are they just idiots for misreading him, or are they his scumbuddies?

also then please tell me your read on gangsta. thankyou.

I have my doubts but I won't let myself second-guess this. I've let too much scum get away from me because of uncertainty. I know who I want regardless of either flip.

to what extent are your reads going to change depending on BW's flip?

Is everyone on the BW waggon likely to be town?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

in case it wasn't 100% clear i would like to lynch outside of BSP/BW toDay.

I'm waiting to hear from RadFic as to who they want.

the deadline is still close so people should be prepared to snap/switch, mmkay? i would rather get a flip toDay than not.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'll be in here in a bit, reading tonight.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I'm mainly biding my time waiting for something to happen. I've grown pretty indifferent towards the game at the moment and think a flip is what we need right now ... but with Nabe having to catch up I guess I'll have to wait some more?

Not feeling comfortable with a BW lynch. No good reasoning has been offered on why he's scummy. If he actually ends up flipping scum then I won't complain anymore and step up my game but I just can't see it happening. Too many bad reasons make me think just is just taking the easy route here. Can't expect the majority of his wagoners to understand this though so I hope a BW townflip comes and serves as a wake-up call.
BSP is the only lynch I feel 100% comfortable with though I wouldn't mind any of the people I mentioned dead. That doesn't mean I think they're all scummy - it's just that I feel like town is better off with them dead for one reason or another. Right now it seems like Gangsta is the only lynch most people could compromise on outside of BSP / BW.

Not much more for me to say especially since I've gotten no solid response to my question on what people will do in case of a BW townflip. People that push his lynch should answer this unless they're scum. WATT's answer has been pathetic and could easily be a scum cop-out.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Too many bad reasons make me think just is just taking the easy route here.

EBWOP: Too many bad reasons make think scum is just taking the easy route here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote count when I get back.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@Kary. wrt bolded, I really don't see him as "crumbling under pressure". I see him as "getting called out on his bull****, and not knowing what to do." He was unable to substatiate his reads before his wagon formed, and even now, knowing that all he has to do is explain his strongest reads (reads that should be EASY to explain, because they're his "strongest"), he still can't do it? We shouldn't have to wagon him to get cooperation from him on very basic things that townies are supposed to do. The pressure currently on him is his own doing, and if he's town that just legitimately can't stand up to the pressure, he should probably reconsider signing up for any more games. Town being called "scum" and getting wagoned is not an uncommon scenario, he should be able to deal with it by now.

wrt underlined. I'm gonna keep some of that to myself for now. I will say that I do think the field of players defending BW contains both scum and town, but I won't say who is who yet. I want to see how it developes. I'm a bit worried that so many of my reads depend on a BW scumflip, but every time I look at his play I feel pretty reassured.

wrt Gangsta. I actually feel ok with calling him Town right now. They don't really stand out as scummy.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

[uote="kary"]to what extent are your reads going to change depending on BW's flip?

Is everyone on the BW waggon likely to be town?[uote]

If he flipped scum, then I would feel more likely to go the Jferno direction seeing how they don't having a really good reason to townread him and the subtle defense is simply not the same as IR being ignorant towards it. If town, I'm not really sure. I don't think everyone on Badwolf is town, and there's scum in there looking to bus him if anything, let me get back to you about this, I'm gonna look at the votecount.