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1.) BSP's first post didn't just not contain sufficient scumhunting. He literally tried to fish for pro-town credit from null points. WHAT TOWNIE WOULD DO THAT? A townie wouldn't even see that possibility and BSP has yet to explain what pro-town intentions he had when he commented on worthless stuff. Saying "I feel like it" or "who are you to judge what's useless and what's not" is NOT a sufficient defense either. It simply shows that he can't actually explain what he truly intended to achieve. Guess why?
Also, do you really think it's mere coincidence that Kevin and I spotted BSP as scum literally on his first post? How likely do you think that is to happen to a non-scumbag? When no good argument in favor of BSP exists?
2.) BW explained his scum reads perfectly fine - he said that he sees a connection between soup and BSP and I agree here. His explanation on one trying to "cover" the other doesn't quite fit but it's true that there have been interesting interactions between the two. That is a million times more worth than anything you, WATT, Kary, BSP himself, Jeoy and Gangsta have offered YET YOU HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THEM. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU. Learn how to play mafia plz.
Also, even if you were right about the BW part, you fail to explain how it is SCUMMY, let alone scummier than what BSP has done.
Yall have no case against BW. He has good intentions for the town right now and is not afraid to voice his independent thinking with results I can partly agree with.
You're a very poor player if you're just going to keep on pushing BSP's first post.
No wonder BSP's defense is so bad. He keeps on explaining himself and you're literally just saying the same thing about his first post over and over. His first post isn't scummy... like at all. I can't expect BSP's defense to be decent if people are pissing him off to the point of giving up by bringing up the same stupid BS point over and over. I would be in the exact same situation as him if I were dealing with someone like you lol.
Do you really think he's "fishing for town credit" by saying that lynching inactives is bad before reading a slot? That's null. You're not gaining anything from saying that, you're just stating an opinion and making sure that someone doesn't do something stupid. There is no way that he's fishing for town credit during his first post. What if he... Oh gosh... Hold on... This will be in insane...
What if he didn't have a motive that is related to in-game?!?!?!?!
While it's pretty much fact to most of the "better" players that everything in-game has a motive in-game... It doesn't. Look at the post again. Why would a scum advice people not to lynch inactives or sheep? He's not going to be gaining any town credit. He's
Also.... another shocking detail... What if he was talking about the general principal of lynching inactives, not just me specifically? If he's talking about generally lynching inactives, it doesn't really matter how close I am to being lynched, because he's just saying a statement in general that he feels people should follow.
Coming from someone who gives advice naturally out & in game (on accident, even), I can't see how it's scummy. Especially in the first post when it's all RVS. No one is going to say "He's town!" because he stated his opinion on sheeping and lynching inactives. They're null tells. You're pushing very weak null tells. Yay :D.
I thought his defense was bad, but after realizing how ****ty your argument is and how much you're pushing said ****ty argument against him, I can see why. Push something more convincing, push a better argument in general, or just get off of that wagon and come over here with us, because we're definitely not lynching BSP if you're going to keep on pushing weak reasoning.
Power comes with numbers, not just being a power player. You're not racking up the numbers for a reason. Maybe you should figure that out .
If you're not BS'ing this read, then how do you feel about Vinyl?
Screw reading the rest of this current page. It has obnoxious all over it.
If you're busy, you can just tell us so.
Now first of all soup, stop what you're doing from here because I'm seriously thinking you're just making badwolf a bad priority for his recently bad posts, which has to do with an argument between you and him, and I can tell you, that argument is a pointless one.
I'm not telling you to not call him scummy or whatnot, I'm telling you to stop what you're doing and point to the alternative or you're probably going to give yourself a bad rap.
Literally gave advice that was relevant to the game, was in a specific situation (not general), and was telling Soup that "he would look less scummy if he did this".
What about me, actually? I'm pretty sure I attempted to give you advice so you wouldn't replace out. It was way more relevant and probably more scummy than the general advice that BSP gave :|.
You're pushing BSP for 1) a weak case and 2) something that at least two other players have done.
More reasoning for me voting BadWolf coming soon. Either after all-state band audition or before I leave lol.
EBWOP: He's doing it because he thinks lynching inactives is bad. Regardless of alignment, he'd probably be saying the same thing. It's a null tell.
---
Sorry. It's a really jumbled up post xD. Rush typed so I could eat breakfast lol. Any other inconsistencies can be pointed out and I will try to fix them! .
None of it is addressing you at the moment actually xD. Sorry about that. I'm going to be putting something up after I get back from all-state at the latest that will define my vote on you. Until then, you can see my generalized reasoning for disliking your play in this game here:
"Uhhh.... Yeah. Scum. Same boat as BSP, actually... except the whole "I don't understand the original hate on you" thing. I don't see anything that you've done as townie. Your reads are horrid, you're riding Radical Fiction's **** to hell (ew), and your defense against Soup is also crappy. You attempt to focus on stuff that isn't relevant to the game at all (grammar... really?) in what looks like an attempt to incriminate him. :s. Looks like he's less scum hunting and more just trying to get Soup off his back. Not sure if voting him or BSP. They're both pretty bad at this point."
quick hits before i need to eat:
Kary-reasonably confident on BW scum.
Joey-swiss call-out was due to our worry that he was going to slide through the day making small comments without making major pushes on someone beside soup.
BW-Answer my question you said you'd answer yesterday
@Joey, I'm playing the game in fact instead of the normal me just saying I think someone is scum and then sitting on it I've actively said I don't feel comfortable with a BW lynch.
That's information, you can follow that sort of information. If BW were to flip scum you could form a line of questioning towards me on that, if he flips town you could wonder if I was trying to gain town points or if perhaps my reads are stronger and thus feel more inclined to believe me.
Don't say I'm not playing the game when I'm giving you information especially when you're just being dumb enough to not pay attention to it.
Anyways, W.R.T the last few pages, I dislike IR's slot, but I don't think he's scum. I just can't tell what his angle is and I think that his blatant buddying of me is more to appease my slot then to have scum intent. I'm not positive but that's my current analysis of it.
MiR did you ever end up answering my question? Why didn't you?
Radfic can you please go into detail on your answer to my question, I know you don't want to and it goes against your ego fest but I'm willing to work with you and I want to know why you would shoot them. In return ask me something, lets work together lets build a foundation to win this game.
My thoughts currently on this game are that we don't have a lot of time in D1 left. I don't feel comfortable with any lynch sans BSP and one other person. I would really like BSP to go today I feel the most comfortable on his slot and the way he handled the pressure from the wagon is also a scum tell. In fact I'm surprised town was willing to let it go the way they did. He literally felt a lot of pressure, went with some AtE and other awful defense walls. And then when soup vs badwolf started up instead of commenting on it which to me would have shown town intent and a lack of self preservation (btw stop trying to live as town just find scum who the **** cares if you die) he hides. He goes inactive and lets everything blow over, and then once people take their votes off of him he starts posting about it again.
Talk to me like that again and I will do everything in my power to end your mafia career.
I work 11 hour days. I have a window of two to three hours when I get home to do my entire social life. I do not play large games out of hydra - this is a reasonably well known fact as by myself I do not have the time to commit.
I'm firmly BSPtown. I'm leaning BW scum due to more of his recent posts. You'll have any and all reads I want to give out on my lunch break if I can.
And please don't talk to me about "observation mode" if you have no concept of what it is.
You and PJB this game - ****in' zero analysis, you just look at the surface and think ZOMG LOOK. **** me. Do people like you guys ever wonder why everyone says you are bad? You build a ceiling above yourself then simply pretend you've exceeded it.
You're a sheep, a tool, a slave, a wasted playerslot, you are shady and spineless and need to grow a brain of your own.
How has BW been "constantly coolguying" and how is it scummy? Generic accusation with no actual content. Aka trash.
How is he bringing up BS? He explained both of his reads and the connection he pointed out is legit. Your point is trash.
He has clearly hunted scum. Your point is trash.
He is tunneling? ARE YOU ******** OR WHAT? DID SOMEBODY **** IN YOUR BRAIN OR WHAT? ARE YOU TOO STUPID TO SEE THAT HE'S BEING TUNNELED? HOW CAN YOU ACCUSE HIM OF TUNNELING. THAT'S LIKE ACCUSING JEWS THAT THEY ARE COMMITING GENOCIDE AGAINST NAZIS. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW ******** THAT IS?
I'm pretty sure I'm not missing your point. Your point is just very bad.
You're attempting to lynch him because of his first post and his defense to you based on his first post.
You're attempting to sell the fact that his first post is bad because it's fishing for town cred and he's commenting on useless things unless I'm missing something.
You're trying to say that him telling us that he's working on a post regarding his reads and him not posting due to that is scummy. I'm certain you've said his lack of posting = scummy.
Nothing you've said against BSP is actually scummy though lol. Commenting on "worthless" things? Trying to make sure people don't make stupid mistakes isn't commenting on something "worthless" if the player feels that they need to comment on it. It's not telling of an alignment. It's null.
Fishing for town cred? Giving advise like that =/= searching for town cred. What Vinyl did is way worse than what BSP did. Trying to make others stop looking scummy vs Trying to stop others from making stupid mistakes... BSP being the second one of course. It's just not scummy. No one is reading him as town from him giving people advice. It's a null tell, and for a good reason.
Of course his defense is going to be bad if you're literally saying "Lol not good enough" when he's stating the obvious. You don't have to have a townie reason to try to stop people from making stupid mistakes if he'd do it regardless of alignment. He probably didn't have a reason outside of that, and you saying that it's "not good enough" is just aggravating to him, as we can tell by him almost giving up earlier. He was and still is stating the same things over and over. You're basically asking him to make up BS reasoning for something that should be null just to get you to shut up.
Please tell me if I've missed something. .
@KevinM: You've given your opinion on two players without any evidence. You've given two stances. That's it. You're not convincing anyone of your reads. Unless you consider playing the game to be "Lol here are two reads without reasoning lets kill this one!", you're not playing the game much at all. Prove me wrong .
I, Ryker, am caught up and have been for a couple of days. I am missing any posts from Badwolf that haven't been quoted because I have had and still have him blocked. I am also missing some of Gheb vs. Soup because it either puts me to sleep or makes my eyes bleed depending on how serious I am about looking into it.
Right now, Swiss and I agree on most everything. The only differences being the severity of certain reads and the fact that I haven't even made a token attempt to read Badwolf.
Went over the first part already. As for hinting at the Soup lynch, I was going off of what RadFic said. They explicitly brought up a Soup lynch, and I was going from that.
And I answered your last question.
Herein lies the difference between you, WATT, and Soup. Soup defined a clear stance he had on inactives and how he was going to approach them this game as well as opening discussion for others.
@Bolded – exactly, and that’s not scum hunting, is it? That's what you're on my case for. Why didn’t you say anything about it? Soup did pose some questioning to open discussion, yes, but I also started questioning in my first post and you proceeded to ignore and focus on what you didn’t like.
Your fishing for TownCred comes from telling people how not to play (don't jump to conclusions on inactive Joey, we need to look at everyone first!) instead of scumhunting.
Referring back to my previous point. Telling Vinyl to not sheep Ryker is completely irrelevant at this point!
a) Vinyl was not sheeping Ryker at the moment
b) Vinyl was responding to a question posed by RF and had no intentions (at the time) of sheeping Ryker
It boils down again to telling Vinyl how not to play instead of pushing Vinyl on his sheeping answer. Lastly, he ends that segment with "this is what I would do!", which again goes with what I've been posting.
Smart guy: "Hey guys, your accusations against Badwolf are bad, let me point you out why. Reasoning X doesn't apply because of BW's post #YZ and reasoning A doesn't apply because of BW's post #BC. If you accuse him because of that you're either A.) scum B.) idiots or C.) worthless sheeps. In any case, you are wrong and should think this stuff through again.
Dumb randoms: "LOLOL UR DEFENSE IS TERRIBLE LOL U SCUM WITH BW RITE, HE SCUM N UR DEFENSE SUX OLOLOL"
We're asking you to do "Smart Guy" Gheb. So far you haven't during your tirade against our sins. You called us all tools and sheep, but you didn't do "Reasming X doesn't apply because of BW's post #YZ". We can't work with what you don't give.
We're also looking at Vinyl, IR on BW scum, while still peering into BSP to reaffirm our reads. You yourself and Ganstalicious also need to post some more content so we can analyze it.
It feels like a sin but I legitimately like Kevin right now. Don't be all HxH though. Also digging IR kinda, maybe just the JTB side for earlier posting.
Badwolf/BSP would be a pipedream but I have more faith in BSP than Badwolf, pressure apply to the latter however and it's sure to crack. Why'd you get off Badwolf Kevbro I might drop this charade and focus on bigger things because the fact of Badwolf asking me such a useless questions bothers me more than RadFic playing me like a fiddle.
I did comment on something that mattered. I explained my intentions when questioned about them.
Went over the first part already. As for hinting at the Soup lynch, I was going off of what RadFic said. They explicitly brought up a Soup lynch, and I was going from that.
And I answered your last question.
@Bolded – exactly, and that’s not scum hunting, is it? That's what you're on my case for. Why didn’t you say anything about it? Soup did pose some questioning to open discussion, yes, but I also started questioning in my first post and you proceeded to ignore and focus on what you didn’t like.
WATT answered a question in #96, but not in #94. Why didn’t you call him out for it? I mean, clearly they’re not scumhunting with that post.
Your criteria on separating us is faulty. It doesn’t cover WATT’s #94, and I've pointed out w.r.t. Soup
Armchair critic implies that I was doing no questioning, which is false.
Keep on applying your reasoning selectively. How does this not apply to WATT’s #94? Replace “how not to play” with “talking about inactive policy”.
“Instead of scumhunting” – in the very post you’re so worked up about, I proceeded to question RF’s push on Soup. I was trying to get something done.
Refer to my #354 when I explain that I was worried about the mindset. Oh right, you’re not reading all of my posts.
Except I was scumhunting in the exact post you’re referring to.
Gangstalicious: scum lean. Here’s what I don’t like:
Gangstalicious 442 said:
1. BSP - Scum. I feel like he has deflected some of the things IR has posed to him and has before tried arguing not based on facts, but on emotions (eg. You don't know what's going on in my head). I also don't like how he jumped so soon on Soup solely because of RF's read.
First, I have not “deflected” any questions aimed at to me. IR is the one who hasn’t been reading and is continuing to come at me with wrong information. Show me where I am arguing based on emotions. As I’ve previously said, everyone else not knowing what’s going on in my head IS a fact, and I’m trying to get the point across that “not understanding what a player is doing” =/= scum.
Second, I NEVER JUMPED ON SOUP . The only way you can get this idea is if you stretch the meaning of my words in my #144. I clearly ask RF if they are willing to have Soup lynched. I DID NOT say that I want Soup lynch, so I don’t understand how you’re getting that I jumped on Soup. This is faulty reasoning that you’re using to justify your vote.
Also, this:
Gangsta 402 said:
This is a post which shows some of my suspicion. You use RF's confidence as a reason to think Soup is scum without (from what I saw) any confidence of your own stating that Soup is scum.
I NEVER stated that Soup was scum, and I NEVER pushed for Soup’s lynch. I don’t know where you’re getting this from.
MiR/Politoed – null-scum. The first thing I felt from MiR’s posts were buddying attempts, specifically w.r.t. KevM (see 237, 238, ); This slot also uses some faulty reasoning to place a vote on me:
Politoed 254 said:
BSP's lack of commitment to important issues and sudden assurance in RadFic's Soup read is unsettling to me. He denies it, but I don't think he has a real reason for understanding the confidence in it. RadFic himself had no reason to be that confident in a scumSoup read at the time and it shows by how he later backed off. I like the pressure there at the moment.
The “sudden assurance” in RadFic’s Soup read statement is wrong. I did NOT support RadFic’s Soup read, and I clearly explained where I based my statement on RadFic’s confidence from. I didn’t have a real reason for understanding the confidence in it? I quoted the exact post that made me believe RadFic had confidence in it. I do not like this faulty reasoning being used to place a vote on me.
Take a look at Politoed’s #358. At least w.r.t. to reads, Badwolf has been the opposite of careful (referring to the strong town read on RadFic early game). I don’t know think the “Careful” view of Badwolf’s play has much merit.
They do question Badwolf and myself some, and aren’t afraid to give their opinion of situations, but I’ll have to re-think how much I’m going to value that. I will have to think on this one more.
Badwolf – scum lean; fine with him going. Suspicions start at #142. Badwolf clearly states that he’s worried about RF; states he’s going to look at them the most. He also claims that he likes all of their posts so far. I find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t question RF being so confident in a read so fast.
Now look at #203 and #206. Why exactly can Soup die? This is too early to be fine with someone dying (I swear, if someone calls me hypocritical on this for the reason I’m expecting…) Also, note the strong town read on RF at this point. Badwolf had previously said that he was going to be looking at RF the most. I’m looking at RF’s posts up to that read, and I’m just not seeing what gave Badwolf so much confidence in that Town read. Most players had RadFic as a null at this point as well.
He calls Soup scum in his #404 and still hasn’t explained why.
#472 claims that Soup screwed up pretty badly, but he never actually explains what Soup did AFAIK.
#511; unacceptable; First, why am I now suddenly grouped with Soup for you Badwolf? You’re called Soup scum from early on. Why have I jumped on his level for you?
Second
“I didn't want to jump on the BSP waggon becasue I'm almost positive that someone would call me out on it because I haven't commented on it. However, I do see him as being scummy.”
If you really thought I was scummy and aren't just blindly following wagons, you would have had no problems explaining yourself and joining my wagon.
“Do you really want me to put my reasoning out on a silver platter? I can do that but I really don't want to... “
Explaining yourself is vital. You’re going to add me into your scum reads (along with someone who you never actually explained) without explaining why.
He literally tried to fish for pro-town credit from null points. WHAT TOWNIE WOULD DO THAT? A townie wouldn't even see that possibility and BSP has yet to explain what pro-town intentions he had when he commented on worthless stuff.
Saying "I feel like it" or "who are you to judge what's useless and what's not" is NOT a sufficient defense either. It simply shows that he can't actually explain what he truly intended to achieve. Guess why?
Also, do you really think it's mere coincidence that Kevin and I spotted BSP as scum literally on his first post? How likely do you think that is to happen to a non-scumbag? When no good argument in favor of BSP exists?
Regardless, both of you could be (and are) wrong. The only argument against me is the one you keep bringing up, and I've been showing what I find faulty with it; and, seeing that I’m still alive, I'm not the only one who doesn't buy it.
Right now Soup can die. I wouldn't be sad. If he flips town RF would go down next because I'm holding him to his sureness of a read. Flips scum I'm not sure what I would do.
Um. YOU are the minority... considering that you're the only one who's voted me... I'm still not sure how exactly you know like me.
I'm thinking personal vendetta.
I never said that they weren't still on my watch list, I just like what they've been doing. I'm still watching them just because of their combined records.
Again I'm too outright... People have me as being careful? Please explain.
Wtf? I've been anything but careful. I have RF as a strong town read! Please explain!
I had said that if he was to die I wouldn't be sad.... Considering his crappy *** push I'm actually hoping for it now. Flailing scum = bad scum.
I don't mind seeing BSP or Soup going as of right now. I didn't want to jump on the BSP waggon becasue I'm almost positive that someone would call me out on it because I haven't commented on it. However, I do see him as being scummy.
Do you really want me to put my reasoning out on a silver platter? I can do that but I really don't want to...
Or maybe it’s here, where he tells us that he’s now fine with me dying, doesn’t give reasoning for it, and instead gives reasoning for not wanting to commit to his read?
he said that he sees a connection between soup and BSP and I agree here.
His explanation on one trying to "cover" the other doesn't quite fit but it's true that there have been interesting interactions between the two. That is a million times more worth than anything you, WATT, Kary, BSP himself, Jeoy and Gangsta have offered YET YOU HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THEM. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU. Learn how to play mafia plz.
That doesn't explain anything? At least, it doesn't show how BSP is supposedly covering for soup in any way. If anything, it could be interpreted as weak distancing.
That’s his only “explanation” of his scum reads. Prior to that, he didn’t explain anything. Why are you stretching so far to make Badwolf’s play seem acceptable?
Learn how to play mafia? This is coming from the slot that’s defending Badwolf.
Also, even if you were right about the BW part, you fail to explain how it is SCUMMY, let alone scummier than what BSP has done.
Yall have no case against BW. He has good intentions for the town right now and is not afraid to voice his independent thinking with results I can partly agree with.
Here’s what I’m understanding from what you’re saying, since Badwolf apparently hasn’t been scummy at all.
Strong town read early on a slot that’s null at best =/= suspicious
Saying a player can die without explaining why =/= scummy
Calling a player scum without explaining why =/= scummy
Changing your mind to another player without explaining why =/= scummy
Actually giving reasoning on why he didn't come out with a scum read =/= scummy
I have no idea why you’re defending badwolf while gunning for me so hard, and it gives me more incentive to leave my vote where it is.
I want a reads list from Kary and Vinyl. Something to work with. The extent of what I've seen from them is 1-liners and such that aren't really getting us anywhere. Joey, you commented on Vinyl in your 687; I don't agree with this being completely normal Vinyl. He usually offers a bit more than what he's doing right now.
I'm talking with J on skype and I'm typing for him:
BSP and Badwolf are town and anyone on those wagons should be ashamed.
Badwolf calm down, take a breath, and come back later. He kind of reminds of Joey when he first starting playing, especially this game. RadFic, WL, and Gheb do you agree with me?
Soup I have my eye on you because your pushes on Radfic and Badwolf are terribad and opportunistic. Your anger is a bit too overreacted and sounds forced and you're trying to sound pissed off. You've played with wolf before and you never got this angry.
RadFic's pretty okay so far. I like the MiR vote because it's a WL/Xonar hydra and none of their posts have given me indication of their alignment besides some points that are bad which makes me want to lean scum on them.
Joey's hella town. This is a read we both agree on.
Radical Fiction is town (#177) and not scum with soup (#192).
Leaning sightly towards -Masquerain- being scum due to his #169. His school john is what puts me on the fence, but I'll check later if he explains the details of the dislike and/or how that would be scummy.
KevMo sorry I saw earlier that you wanted me to vote BSP; didn't want to change my vote yet due to my previous read on RF. Where's your vote so I can double it?
What are you very intelligent people going to do if Badwolf flips town? Are you going to continue to use your amazing scumhunting skills to get this town nowhere?
What are you very intelligent people going to do if Badwolf flips town? Are you going to continue to use your amazing scumhunting skills to get this town nowhere?
The criticism is by J. He is room banned so I typed out what he said as we were talking on skype. He sounds confident right now on BSPtown and I'm gonna trust him for now. Gheb do you agree about the statement about Badwolf?
Right now we would go with Soup. His anger is very over the top and his pushes have been terrible. I've seen him angry but never like this and it feels feigned/forced to us.
What are you very intelligent people going to do if Badwolf flips town? Are you going to continue to use your amazing scumhunting skills to get this town nowhere?
you phrase this as though you know i'm town, is that intentional?
also, you act as though me asking a slot to claim isn't scumhunting. pretty sure if i wanted to do nothing at all this dayphase i could coast through posting //////, so i don't see what the big deal is.
you'll notice that i'm a doublevoter, and as such i'm more or less cleared as town. so there's no need to worry about my slot, nor is it worth trying to mislynch me. Right now i'm happy to watch the Day play out without pushing things particularly, if i come to regret that later i'll let you know.
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