Toonami Mafia - Adult Swim Edition - The sun has risen!

[FullMetalLynch]

I'll comment on DP v Kantrip after league

 

[Detective Prince.]

Yes? Why wouldn't I? I showed my reasoning as to why his is wrong, and he has yet to refute it.

It's more than meta. I also said he wouldn't waste his time as scum with something so trivial as a mini-case on Potassium. That applied to nearly anyone. Do you see scum putting themselves out there like that?

 

[Kantrip]

is this rhetorical? do you actually expect him to respond to this?

Obviously both. It's rhetorical AND he expects me to respond to it.

I like how you worded it here, by the way. He IS essentially calling me scum and Asdioh town for the same type of behaviour, writing it off as meta for the difference. I'm generally really active in games I'm interested or invested in, so his meta doesn't even make sense. This is the contradition I found in his play which adds on to his tone, his flinging questions back at people, his gross jump on FML, and really everything else I'm coming to hate about his slot. I would see the slot die right now and feel comfortable with seeing a scumflip.

 

[Detective Prince.]

Don't use someone's post to try and justify yours. You are doing hilariously bad right now.

 

[asianaussie]

didnt FML just talk about how it's very possible for scum to out things like role pms to appear more open? a smaller investment, like a wall of text (let's be honest, it was just an excuse to post the domon pic), is hardly out of the question

i have no comment on reasoning for asdioh scum, other people can dismantle that

 

[Detective Prince.]

Are you going to keep ignoring me and feign a scumread or are we going to get somewhere with this Kantrip?

 

[Kantrip]

Hey soup why don't you learn to read? Not only is your Asdioh townread NOT THE PROBLEM, but I also ALREADY HAVE given reasons for why I find him scum.

 

[Detective Prince.]

And I refuted said logic and gave my own, which in turn explains the diference between you and him!
Your turn.

 

[Kantrip]

You did nothing of the sort and your logic is ****. What about my play is enthusiastic outside of the town Kantrip norm? What Asdioh meta (from what game) do you have that makes his play here town? What about my points for Asdioh scum do you disagree with? What part of "it's the contradiction, not the reads on their own" do you not understand?

 

[Kantrip]

Also, that's how you ask questions. With a question mark.

Please can we just kill this slot

 

[Detective Prince.]

Your scumread:
"You say I'm being enthusiastic but what about ASDIOH? His thing he did early on was enthusiastic too. Wow. You're just defending Asdioh. Vote DP."

My scumread:
"That's horse**** and let me tell you why."

And here I am. You have nothing on me. You have me on the fact I defended Asdioh. Stop dodging me. Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[Detective Prince.]

Asdioh townread NOT THE PROBLEM,

So I'm too enthusiastic about this game, and yet Asdioh jumping the gun with a wall case based off of Red Ruy's RVS vote, one-liner, and subsequent death isn't?

Vote Detective Prince.

You are seriously bad at this, lmao.

 

[Kantrip]

You are horribly, horribly misconstruing everything and that is nowhere even close to all I have for a scumread on you. I also never said you were defending Asdioh, and seriously just **** you.

I'm not continuing this interaction on. There's enough for everyone to see you're full of ****.



Now on to things that matter: I like Rake considerably more than Orbo. AA defending me is a bit ehhh, but I think it's with town intent and he just genuinely sees that soup is ********.

 

[Kantrip]

soup stop ****ing quoting out of context holy **** are you actually kidding me

You having a townread on Asdioh is fine. That is not the problem, as I said.

What is the problem is that your reasoning for calling me scum does not coincide with having an Asdioh townread. There is a contradiction, and THAT is the problem. A contradiction. Not the read on its own.

 

[asianaussie]

not actually defending you btw, you're still pretty null

although i guess that technically is a step up from enthusiastic scum

 

[Kantrip]

You don't need to have a townread on someone to defend them, wittingly or not. Either way it makes no matter as I think your intentions are fine with what you're doing.

Only thing I want from Detective Prince at this point is the answer to my questions. Quite hypocritical of him to be so adamant about me giving him answers he asks for and not doing the same for me.

 

[Detective Prince.]

...Can you read words. Can you read your own? Calm down.

. You said your dislike for my slot isn't even meta. You just don't like how enthusiastic I am or something. If it's not meta then that means ANY OTHER PLAYER displaying the same enthusiasm would get your dislike, right? So yes, my point stands, and no you can't defend it with "Asdioh and you are different players".

Any other player. Like...? The only point was interest here was Asdioh. The whole reason you voted me was because of Asdioh. Why are you denying this? Why are you denying your own logic? A contradiction? You didn't have a problem with my townread on Asdioh? Really? Why did you point it out, then? There is a slight dislike to my jump on FML, but it seems you don't even care about that anymore.

Asdioh made a case off of me based on speculation of Red Ryu's death after his RVS vote on me. Not only is that overly ambitious, but it's also silly and full of reachy logic. Never did I say you were defending Asdioh, but I see it as a direct contradiction that you say you like Asdioh and dislike me (you say it's not meta, and this is a big point here). I really don't feel like bickering on, so if you have more legitimate questions for me could you spell them out in plain english?

Look at the bolded. Tell me the reasoning you were trying get across. Your first statement in voting me is precisely because I defended him.

 

[Kantrip]

You are under the impression that "the whole reason voted [you] was because of Asdioh." You are horribly mistaken here. Your contradiction was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

You weren't defending Asdioh. Never did I say you were. I'm not on you for your townread on Asdioh. Never did I say I was. You were calling Asdioh town. This is not defending him. I am on you for the discrepancy between your reasoning for your reads. This is not because of the read itself. Having a scumread on me is fine. Having a townread on Asdioh is fine. Having both of these reads for the same reason and saying it's because we're different players is not fine. You have not cited any meta for me to support that that should be considered okay.

 

[Kantrip]

That is probably as clear as I can say it. Now I implore you to answer my questions, which I shall restate for you here, plain and clear:

What was I doing that rubbed you as too enthusiastic?

Where is your meta on Asdioh from that supports your stance that his behaviour is town? Namely making a case right off the bat over trivial things?

Have you read my posts in which I lay out why I dislike Asdioh? If yes, is there a problem with the points themselves? Do you just disagree? If no, please read them and refer back to the if yes portion.

 

[Detective Prince.]

Okay. For starters, you're different from Asdioh. Do we understand this? Are we clear? Good.

You voted me on a basis of how I was treating Asdioh, whether it be defense. I state slight dislike of you, and you completely jump the gun and say that I contradicted myself. How? I didn't even speak anything yet. I merely implied dislike and you took it like I was comparing you to Asdioh. No. You started this. It all just boils down to how you're acting now. Previous dislike was how you've treated this game, and the best I could describe it was enthusiasm and approach. The way you cited your read on Asdioh was weird, and you overreacted to one simple fact of him not wanting Raziek. I can quote this. And I can also finish what I wanted to say before you rudely interrupted me.

But what the **** man? Why officially remove Raziek from lynch pools? If people think he's town, he won't get lynched, why would you even ask this question? If things change and make Raziek seem suddenly really scummy, you gonna hold people to this contract?

Dumb or scum on Asdioh, and right now I'm leaning scum.

Here is your dislike of asdioh. There's other points made, but I want to focus on this.

You made a big deal out of nothing and you're being overly enthusiastic about something like this. There is your first reason.

The second is that you're being biased.

I'm not lynching Raz today based on his play so far. I'll make no guarentees beyond that.

Here is a quote from FML. He basically says the same thing. Why are you not on his case as much as you were Asdioh? You had him under your 'anti-town' readslist, but it doesn't change the fact that how they treated Raziek is nearly the same. Do you agree?

That said, I did dislike FML is pregame and still do, but it might be a personality thing and not actually their alignment.

So. Why is there bias here? Asdioh cannot simply be the same issue? It's not just his personality?

I'm continuing on with this.

 

[Kantrip]

Dude you keep tunneling on one point. That entire post is stuff against Asdioh, not just the last paragraph.

I can't even talk to you, I'm sorry. I tried to be calm but I just can't and you're STILL not answering my questions adequately.

 

[Kantrip]

And FML's quote there is totally different. He is stating what HE plans to do, not trying to get OTHER PEOPLE to agree to not lynching Raz.

In addition, he says "so far" which implies that opinion can change.

Gorf dammit man, why is this like pulling teeth when it should be so simple?

 

[Detective Prince.]

That's an excuse and you know it.

I just explained why I thought you were being too enthusiastic.
I explained my meta on Asdioh already. It's just how he is. Don't believe me? Check a game like D.Gray man.
I just explained what I disliked about your post about Asdioh.

 

[Detective Prince.]

And FML's quote there is totally different. He is stating what HE plans to do, not trying to get OTHER PEOPLE to agree to not lynching Raz.

In addition, he says "so far" which implies that opinion can change.

Gorf dammit man, why is this like pulling teeth when it should be so simple?

Okay, so Asdioh's general statement saying 'guys let's not vote Raz' is scummier than FML going 'i probably won't vote Raz'?

He didn't state for other people to agree. He suggested it.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

his gross jump on FML, and really everything else I'm coming to hate about his slot. I would see the slot die right now and feel comfortable with seeing a scumflip.

Describe why soup's jump was grimey vs opportunistic pressure.

he's scum for tunnelling you Y/N ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

FML's own reasoning on Raziek seems oversubstantiated

How did what Orbo post seem over substantiated ?

 

[Kantrip]

Describe why soup's jump was grimey vs opportunistic pressure.

he's scum for tunnelling you Y/N ?

Opportunistic pressure is grimey to me, because of the opportunistic part. But I find it scummy because his justification was a weak one-liner he tacked on there to avoid voting without providing any reasoning. He noticed that the wagon was well-supported (4 players on it I believe?) with the vote of L and Gheb on it and jumped the bandwagon.

I wouldn't say he's tunneling me as much as being bull-headed and impossible to reason with. He's not scum for keeping this up with me, as I'll be the first to admit it's hard NOT to keep it going when I get so aggro.

I've taken a step back (though I don't want to get back into it for fear of getting worked up again) and can honestly see this stemming from an inability to communicate with soup, so our whole argument is really not giving me any tells. If I think on it and my scumread holds up it'll be from my points and not from how our interaction developed.

Could you give thoughts on the two of us as far as alignment goes for me?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

it's hard to explain , but essentially i think your frustration is justified but misguided at this point , at the same time , i think i understand the distinction soup is trying to make between you and asidioh.

if your really interested in a soup wagon, it'd be much more beneficial to find a different tac to go at , because at this point i've got a town lean on both of you.

I'll be reading your exchange again, but at this point it kind of just feels like your biting at each other for the sake of doing so , so to speak.

lack of communication between you two is a possibility, if i find the time tonight i remember having questions for both of you.

/takeitonfaith

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Potassium, do you feel like anyone else piled on my wagon ?

Or was it just soup ?

 

[Kantrip]

Well I questioned Gheb for that exact reason, as he voted right after L and I wanted to make sure it was for the right reasons. His answer that he didn't have a townread on L when I asked that first followed by him saying he agreed with what L had to say made me feel better about him. His vote also didn't feel forced like Detective Prince's does, do you know what I mean?

I see what you mean about mine and soup's argument and if I go for a round two on him it'll definitely be calmly from a different angle.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I thought Gheb's post a couple after his vote was pretty good, the follow up seemed genuine on my first go round.

WRT DP's vote feeling forced; I got the feeling it was more like DP wasn't exactly sure and me and went: welp if theres pressure there i can possibly get some answers to my concerns. But then, it really didn't go anywhere from there.

The post i have quoted pretty much kinda covers how i feel about DP's vote on it's own

Can't be too pressing, given that you moved your vote away before it was in any danger of mounting up to real pressure in favor of a mechanics check.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

EBWOP :

*on me

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I also dislike how he treated L in their interaction, but that leads up to everything I've already said.

What about it and why ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I can't please everyone. There's nothing more to it. I'd rather wait for FML to respond more than anything.

Response is up.

Thoughts ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

also @people who haven't talked much: talk please - who has the strongest town vibes at the moment? do you think FML and detective prince could co-exist as scum?

1st question: Gheb.
(Even i'm shocked at this one)

didnt FML just talk about how it's very possible for scum to out things like role pms to appear more open? a smaller investment, like a wall of text (let's be honest, it was just an excuse to post the domon pic), is hardly out of the question

i have no comment on reasoning for asdioh scum, other people can dismantle that

As an aside, in Mass Effect mafia JDietz wrote a large wall dismantling arguments and so forth to to help his appearance, it's just things scum do; The difference is reading the intent behind it from my POV.

 

[KevinM]

I dislike kantplay what a surprise

 

[TBG]

@TBG: Lynching dead weight/inactive players D1 - for or against?

Context specific. In games with lots of dead weight players and a high player count, definitely for. In something like this with only 12 players alive, as well as reasonable activity (so far), I would say against.

Me and Swords agreed he was town and that I was just jumping the gun. His reaction is justified in a sense the game didn't start yet, but if that attitude stays consistent when there is something to talk about, it will be noted.

What about you? You're still certain on what was said?

It won't. I was only screwing around because it was pregame and you were being bleh.

Later tonight I will go through all of Red Ryu's communications as finely as possible to see if he may have triggered something. Let us not forget that Wash is a comod in this game, and he is quite fanatically obsessed with Plants -- and similar roles.

I still love Plants so much. (GIANT EAR OF CORN was the best ever)

no comment on the above players atm, but even for meta this doesn't ring right to me


also @people who haven't talked much: talk please - who has the strongest town vibes at the moment? do you think FML and detective prince could co-exist as scum?

Agreed. Feels SvT, will look into it more to figure out who is the S. DP (hue hue hue) feels herp derpy and I'm having a hard time assigning an alignment to it.


Townie vibes from and Raz

I do, I've seen I done ****tons of bussing, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an early hard bus.

It's more than meta. I also said he wouldn't waste his time as scum with something so trivial as a mini-case on Potassium. That applied to nearly anyone. Do you see scum putting themselves out there like that?

I see it frequently. The whole gorram point of playing Scum is to get townie points like candy.

You are horribly, horribly misconstruing everything and that is nowhere even close to all I have for a scumread on you. I also never said you were defending Asdioh, and seriously just **** you.

welcome to my pregame world, dude


------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of reading through the rest of Kantrip v. DP, holy **** what a cluster****. Leaning TvT. vote FML

 

[TBG]

Oh, that should read townie vibes from PJB and Raz.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

A LYNCH HAS BEEN REACHED!

No posting from this point forward. Thread locked until it isn't 4am and I can end the phase properly.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Votecount 1.F

PJB:
FML: TBG
Asdioh: Kantrip
AA:
Kantrip: FML > SOI
KevinM:
TBG: KevinM > FML
Tery:
Soi:: FML > L > FML
.L-: Kantrip > FML
Raz:
Gheb: KevinM > TOM > FML

Count
FML (4): Gheb, Soi, L, TBG
Kantrip (1): Asdioh
Soi (1): Kantrip
TBG (1): FML

UNEDITED VERSION

PJB:
FML: TBG
Asdioh: Kantrip
AA:
Kantrip: FML > SOI
KevinM:
TBG: KevinM > FML
Tery:
Soi:: FML > L > FML
.L-: Kantrip > FML
Raz:
Gheb: KevinM > TOM > FML

Count
FML (5): Gheb, Soi, L, Kantrip, TBG
Kantrip (1): Asdioh
Soi (1): Kantrip
TBG (1): FML

With 12 Players alive, it takes 7 to lynch! D1 ends on January 23rd at 12 PM CST!

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Mod Note the First: I apologize for the extremely lengthy flip. A series of unfortunate events occurred that currently has Laundry without his primary computer and Ryker without internet. Not including other circumstances that arose, a serious miscommunication occurred between he and I that stalled the game. It should not happen again.

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Flip Inbound.