Toon Link's Matchup Advice Thread

[NH Cody]

Against Olimar, you have to keep it simple. If you try to get fancy with bomb camping then you'll end up getting hit or grabbed. Bombs explode on pikmin so it's generally advisable to avoid using bombs (unless you jump high in the air and Olimar is only throwing pikmin at short hop height). If you do pull a bomb and are high in the air, then don't hold it for too long, otherwise Olimar might latch a pikmin onto you and you won't be able to get rid of the bomb without blowing yourself up. Throwing the bomb quickly is probably the best idea.

I would say this is one of the only matchups where you would ever have to approach. You can throw boomerangs, arrows, and bombs from afar but you have to do it at exactly the right moment, whereas all Olimar has to do is side-B repeatedly and it would cause more damage (remember purple pikmin knock you back, so you have to shield them). When approaching you should use mostly nair and zair, maybe even an occasional grab to punish landings or a short hop pikmin throw > fair (in which case you would shieldgrab). Usually other people are putting pressure on you, since you're the one camping. Now you have to put pressure on the Olimar player so he has no time to throw pikmin. As always, be careful to space your attacks, throw projectiles at the right times so you won't get hit or grabbed, and try to adapt to the Olimar's habits. If he's rushing at you often with usmash, then look out for it and punish it next time. Nair to QD or full hop nair to spaced zair are particularly important. So is full hop boomerang to zair or QD. You can play this matchup in a number of ways depending on your style, but this is my perspective on the basics of the matchup. Hope this helps

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

otherwise Olimar might latch a pikmin onto you and you won't be able to get rid of the bomb without blowing yourself up.

Needs more Ibomb.

 

[Anragon]

Boomerang when Oli is far.
Bombs when close(Ibombs are great).
Jab/Nair to deal with grabs.
Put him in the air with Bairs to kill him with Uair/Fair, Usmash when he lands.

But even with this in mind, Olimar is a nightmare to fight

 

[MJG]

Don't try to play that MU like its on paper or you will get **** on^

Needs more Ibomb.

Yup. If a pikmin latches onto you, ibomb.

 

[archer.]

Personally I just choose a different character when I fight Olimar, but I guess that doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Musketeer04]

What should I do against a falco? Is there any way to get out of his chain grabs?

 

[Clownbaby]

To escape the chain grab Di back and up, and jump away. I don't know if it works at every percent, but I do know it works. Other than that camping from the air is effective to escape lasers/avoid reflected projectiles(make sure he doesn't close as you land/ready to ibomb).Use zair when you approach but watch for the reflector its reach is longer (same?), or long enough. arrows to gimp the horizontal recovery. edge hog (well timed) if the upb recovery is low below the stage, dair if its close.

 

[WindMajor]

When Falco is chain grabbing you, you can actually hookshot to the ledge before the spike even puts you in danger, so the spike should never kill you. Just mash air dodge and try to hookshot really fast when you're out of the chaingrab.

 

[Baskerville]

When Falco is chain grabbing you, you can actually hookshot to the ledge before the spike even puts you in danger, so the spike should never kill you. Just mash air dodge and try to hookshot really fast when you're out of the chaingrab.

I'll definitely keep this in mind.

 

[Musketeer04]

To escape the chain grab Di back and up, and jump away. I don't know if it works at every percent, but I do know it works. Other than that camping from the air is effective to escape lasers/avoid reflected projectiles(make sure he doesn't close as you land/ready to ibomb).Use zair when you approach but watch for the reflector its reach is longer (same?), or long enough. arrows to gimp the horizontal recovery. edge hog (well timed) if the upb recovery is low below the stage, dair if its close.

Thank you, I actually do his double ledge grab when he is trying to recover from under the stage. It's a bit more effective because there isn't a chance of self destruct.

 

[Musketeer04]

So you can air doge out of his grabs also?

 

[Clownbaby]

not what twinkie ment, just ment to save yourself from the grab to dair spike(as falco reaches the edge of the stage) by air dodge to zair ledge grab, out of the grab. If you airdodge while over the stage your going to get regrabed or punished hard.

 

[Musketeer04]

Ok. I tried to jump out of his grabs at a low percentage but i lost my second jump because he still grabbed after i jumped, i then got spiked. what percentage should i try and DI/jump out of his grabs?

 

[MJG]

Ok. I tried to jump out of his grabs at a low percentage but i lost my second jump because he still grabbed after i jumped, i then got spiked. what percentage should i try and DI/jump out of his grabs?

Just do this if his CG is going to take you to the ledge

When Falco is chain grabbing you, you can actually hookshot to the ledge before the spike even puts you in danger, so the spike should never kill you. Just mash air dodge and try to hookshot really fast when you're out of the chaingrab.

 

[WindMajor]

This is what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UKK4wjrZQ04#t=258s

 

[Musketeer04]

Ok, so should i not try and jump out of his CGs if we are at the center of the stage?

 

[WindMajor]

I think it would be better to DI up and away or something, I forgot. -_-

 

[Musketeer04]

Ok, thank you for your help.

 

[ViperGold42]

idk if I can or not but I can give some advice on ZSS, due to me being a psedo ZSS/TL main and I know the matchup very well. PM me if you can.

edit: I use to have a account here (which has no disappeared) and I was a strong contributer here.

 

[Bomber7]

After getting destroyed by G&W at Smashcon, I'm curious to know what the MU is for him. I'll take anything you guys can give me. Tips, advice, common knowledge I don't know about, etc.

 

[Fragger]

Dont try to punish his fsmash, your going to have a bad time. Also if he downthrows you, listen the beeps, you can tech it if you press shield on the fifth/last beep.

 

[southpaw]

all g@w's smashes are usually safe, especially if he charges them at all. try to outspace dair with bair, in general g@w has no end lag outside of landing lag on fair. watchout for his stage spike gimmicks when ur on the ledge (he either jumps and dairs, or throws out dash attack at the ledge). his main aproach is bair which is safe on block. his uair is annoying, stay towards the middle of the stage and try to fast fall air dodge when you expect him to use an attack instead, else sit in the air forever.
i think g@w wins the mu, although most disagree.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Guys, I have trouble with a certain TL matchup. Its very troublesome and irritating. How do I counter tournament scene death?

 

[Bomber7]

Guys, I have trouble with a certain TL matchup. Its very troublesome and irritating. How do I counter tournament scene death?

._. Umm... I'm sorry, I don't quite understand the question. If you are just having issues with fighting people in general, change your fighting style. With TL you need a balance of walling projectiles and being able to see when you're setting your opponent up for a sweet combo and move in to follow through. You mobility is key and paying attention is key. If there's any specific MU you have trouble with, just say so.

 

[TLMSheikant]

._. Umm... I'm sorry, I don't quite understand the question. If you are just having issues with fighting people in general, change your fighting style. With TL you need a balance of walling projectiles and being able to see when you're setting your opponent up for a sweet combo and move in to follow through. You mobility is key and paying attention is key. If there's any specific MU you have trouble with, just say so.

My most troublesome matchup is tournament scene death. My region barely hosts tournaments anymore . Its a very tough matchup

 

[Bomber7]

My most troublesome matchup is tournament scene death. My region barely hosts tournaments anymore . Its a very tough matchup

Oh that's what you mean. Well, if you can, try becoming a TO like I did. When our main TO dropped out the scene due to life johns, we didn't have a TO for my home town. If me and my two friends hadn't stepped up, the scene would have died. Granted, I didn't get much of an attendance but getting an average of 10-12 people beats none (since we were used to 30-40 for a tourny). Last year we started to get an average of 20 people per tourny so it only took us a couple of years to get more people to come. Though I only ran the tournament for one year, since I had to move for college. But yeah, step up to the plate man, being a TO is fun.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I have no idea where to start though. Its really hard to start hosting tourneys with no prior experience whatsoever at being a TO...Ill see if i can talk with twink and a few others to co-host a tournament. Apart from a big pot, what would create hype though?

 

[Bomber7]

I have no idea where to start though. Its really hard to start hosting tourneys with no prior experience whatsoever at being a TO...Ill see if i can talk with twink and a few others to co-host a tournament. Apart from a big pot, what would create hype though?

I think the fact that there's a tournament would be enough hype. being a TO is pretty easy. Get TIO from AiB and mess around with it. Learn how to make and event, bracket, etc. The trick is just finding a good venue and making sure people will bring stuff; you need to advertise, etc.

 

[WindMajor]

Sheikant read the Facebook group. I'm not in it, but I know what's going on there. You just missed out on 2 good Smashfests (one with Th3R3flexW0nder in it), and there are two tournaments coming up (this saturday and next saturday). We're not dying yet, there's been a grand spark of activity.

However, if you must know how to combat certain tournament death, here's what you do:
Do everything yourself since nobody else will.

 

[Bomber7]

Sheikant read the Facebook group. I'm not in it, but I know what's going on there. You just missed out on 2 good Smashfests (one with Th3R3flexW0nder in it), and there are two tournaments coming up (this saturday and next saturday). We're not dying yet, there's been a grand spark of activity.

However, if you must know how to combat certain tournament death, here's what you do:
Do everything yourself since nobody else will.

We have a facebook group? I didn't think this board did stuff like that.

 

[WindMajor]

The PR facebook group.

 

[Bomber7]

The PR facebook group.

Oh right. The group that people like me can't get into. xD

 

[ShadowTl]

What can I do when I know mk will glide attack my shield? Can't really do anything to punish it, same with grounded up b.

And can anyone give me some advice on the pikachu/lucario mu?
Against pikachu there isn't really anything safe I can do on his shield without him being able to punish it. This really is a problem when pikachu is on high % and sits in his shield a lot. Tl's grab sucks and in other mu's I try to pressure them with safe attacks on shiedl but can't really do this against pikachu.

And should I just go all in against lucario when he's high aura? His auraballs pretty much shut down my camping game by going through everything. I have to stay safe by not using my double jump and always having a bomb when landing but I'm not pressuring lucario at all with this type of camping and I still make mistakes sometime what results in early auraball kills.

 

[southpaw]

mk's glide attack if spaced correctly basically puts u and him at -6 frame adv. it seems like a disadvantage since tl is stuck in shield. (my guess comes from the fact that we usually get dsmashed by mk before our shield grab comes out if we try to punish). if mk spaces it horribly we sometimes get an upsmash Oos. for the most part i try to get away and hope that his next mashed out move[upb(beats atks),dsmash(beats roll),nado(beats spotdodge)] doesnt hit me.

grounded up-b on block can be punished if they try to fly over with bair. when they try to cancel the glide immediately u might get a running upsmash (very dependent on spacing, if u got a perfect shield, and risky). its still a guessing game no matter wut. sometimes i block an up-b run up, he lands and then i block a second up-b, and then i get a bair punish, but if he grabbed instead of a 2nd up-b I'd get punished.

pika shouldn't be able to punish our 'rang throws, bombs, and spaced zairs. if u mispace an aerial yes ur gunna get upsmashed or naired. but throwin out a spaced nair while he's pressured from projectiles every now and then can be safe. just be patient pika has trouble killing too so use that to ur adv.

high% lucario is ridiculously hard to deal with. try to stay around his roll range, make sure to have bombs to counter aura spheres, and try to throw a boomerang past him for some sort of set up to get inside. I find that I start playing grounded vs lucario a lot.
good luck!

 

[southpaw]

so who knows wut to do against falco?

 

[NH Cody]

You have to camp while avoiding the lasers and reflector...but don't always assume the falco will be campy; if he's aggro then adapt and space with zair

don't randomly airdodge or else he'll bair/fsmash/grab you, or even spike you offstage...

idk much about the advanced stuff...

 

[Get Low]

If I'm playing against Olimar and I have Pikmin on me, what's the best way to get them off?

 

[MJG]

so who knows wut to do against falco?

You have to camp while avoiding the lasers and reflector...but don't always assume the falco will be campy; if he's aggro then adapt and space with zair

don't randomly airdodge or else he'll bair/fsmash/grab you, or even spike you offstage...

idk much about the advanced stuff...

I would actually say that its best to do random/dumb things against falco. Kingtoon would agree with me.

If I'm playing against Olimar and I have Pikmin on me, what's the best way to get them off?

Nair

 

[southpaw]

how do u deal with falco's reflector? like with fox or wolf airdodge zair is great, but if falco throws a reflector and im standing there holding a bomb im usually lost at wut to do.

 

[MJG]

Airdodge > zair works against Falco as well. Just have to get used to the timing.