Toon Link's Matchup Advice Thread

[NH Cody]

The purpose of this thread is to keep an updated list of Toon Link players who know how to handle certain matchups to a reasonable extent. The people whose names appear on this list will be available for advice on their respective matchups should they ever be asked, whether it be through PMs, VMs, or this thread.

Rules

1. Anyone can volunteer themselves, and they should mention why they're qualified to share insight on this matchup. This includes but is not limited to experience fighting that character in tournaments, money matches, or friendlies with someone who they play often.
2. Anyone can nominate someone else, as long as they provide the aforementioned evidence of that person being qualified to give advice on that matchup. The nominee can accept or decline the nomination.
3. Any one person can correspond to multiple matchups, as long as he or she is qualified to give advice on each of the matchups to which he or she has volunteered or been nominated.
4. There can be multiple TL players assigned to any particular matchup.
5. We should keep this relatively casual, not as a competition for people to say "I'm the best at this matchup" but rather as a database from which we can determine who is competent enough at each MU to share knowledge with others.


The List

Each character icon will correspond to a TL player who you can ask about your trouble matchup(s). Just send them a PM, VM, or ask them here in the thread.

[collapse=Player Database] -
- Twinkie, MJG, shadow1pj
- TL OWNS U
- Twinkie, shadow1pj
-
- MJG
- MJG
-
- MJG
- army man, MJG
-
- Twinkie, ~Quest~, MJG
- MJG
- shadow1pj, MJG
- shadow1pj
- MJG
- MJG
-
- ~Quest~, BRLNK88
- KT Kasrani, MJG
-
- MJG, shadow1pj
- shadow1pj
- shadow1pj, MJG
- MJG, shadow1pj
-
- MJG
- shadow1pj
- MJG, shadow1pj
- MJG, shadow1pj
- Twinkie, ~Quest~, KT Kasrani, shadow1pj
- MJG, shadow1pj
- MJG
- shadow1pj
-
-
[/collapse]

 

[KT Kasrani]

Put MJG name next to all the characters and well expand from there

 

[Thebest1pj]

Put me down for peach.


I beat every peach main.

link too

samus

and pika

 

[WindMajor]

king dedede
sonic
diddy
falco

:D

 

[NH Cody]

Alright guys, added. But from now on we should at least mention something that indicates we know the matchup.

I'll sign myself up for Marth, Sonic, and D3. For Marth I've played Minty, Tiger, Gunblade, Nosboss, etc. Plus I use him often as a secondary so I can apply my experience from that. For Sonic I've played a few Sonics in my region in friendlies, and I 2-0'd a Sonic player in a tourney last weekend. Sonic is my other backup so I could also apply what I know from using him to my understanding of the TL-Sonic MU. For D3, I've played plenty of D3s at tourneys, including just last weekend where I beat a D3.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Alright guys, added. But from now on we should at least mention something that indicates we know the matchup.
.

beating ever peach main= knowing the mu.

I beat xyro only samus left lol.

i beat deva chips brother.

i beat kprime and leaf

 

[NH Cody]

Well yeah, we know you're good against peach

I meant the other characters. But that covers it, just some sort of supporting evidence is all we need here.

 

[KT Kasrani]

put me for

MK

if u need any proof... i live in MK country and rarely do i ever get knocked out of tourny by said MK's

o plus i beat sebreik/ no name search

 

[WindMajor]

sonic: the MU i have the most experience with
king dedede: my favorite mu, learned it with ling ling, have beaten every king dedede here minus one
diddy: don't have much to stand on, but i've beaten PRs best diddy
falco: play it often

also, do us well, enjoy your sticky

 

[TL OWNS U]

I'll volunteer for Donkey Kong. I have a friend who plays a mean DK and I can give some tips on how to beat a DK player.

 

[NH Cody]

put me for

MK

if u need any proof... i live in MK country and rarely do i ever get knocked out of tourny by said MK's

I thought you'd volunteer for MK.

added!

sonic: the MU i have the most experience with
king dedede: my favorite mu, learned it with ling ling, have beaten every king dedede here minus one
diddy: don't have much to stand on, but i've beaten PRs best diddy
falco: play it often

Allllright then.

also, do us well, enjoy your sticky

Thanks Twink!

I'll volunteer for Donkey Kong. I have a friend who plays a mean DK and I can give some tips on how to beat a DK player.

Sounds good, added!

Good stuff, people. Pretty soon "trouble matchups" will be a thing of the past.

 

[army man]

hey i'll do a Ike matchup, my brothers good with him but i can still just barely beat him.

 

[NH Cody]

hey i'll do a Ike matchup, my brothers good with him but i can still just barely beat him.

Alright...I'll take your word for it...

 

[army man]

don't worry i'll do a good job

 

[MJG]

Great Idea.

Put MJG name next to all the characters and well expand from there

Lmao.

 

[Thebest1pj]

army man and tl owns u

How do i beat dk and ike? give me a full write up.

 

[MJG]

I guess ill just go in order of the listed characters (Might start name dropping lol)

I am pretty good at the diddy MU. I am probably not on Jerm's level, since he has some of the best diddy practice, but I know some of the in's and out's of the MU...Gnes reverse 2 stocked me @ MLG Dallas


I have played against Zeton (and other fox mains) several times. I know just about every gimmick there is when it comes to fighting this character

GnW is pretty easy imo. Huge game of keep away and there are a few ways to punish GnW if you get hit by some of his attacks (Guaranteed follow ups)

Ice Climbers....yea

I have Mr. Doom to play with when it comes to ike. I know some tricks involving quick ways to gimp ike and just things that we should look out for

I don't really prefer to play against DDD but I have beaten every DDD main that I have played (Except Atomsk).

You could put me down for Kirby and Link...ive played a top 3 kirby and the "best" link (implying link matters >_>)


I play with FAE (FightingadamantEevee) pretty frequently when it comes to playing lucas. Fighting lucas is trickier than people would think (especially playing against a good lucas.

Luigi and GnW involve "some" of the same strategies when it comes to playing against that character...the best Luigi that I have fought was YoshQ

I am not where I want to be when it comes to playing against MK (especially since that is the character that I lose to 95% of the time now) but I do know SEVERAL different gimmicks when it comes to fighting him

Ness...yes

I have beaten several different olimars. I can touch more on this MU when the time comes and I believe that this MU will become "slightly" better for us if you listen to what I have to say


I know a lot about the pikachu MU from playing with my crewmates pikachu. Anticipating pikachu's speed and other things in the MU make this match a cake walk

I used to play with the best pit in the nation (I say "used" to because "Ky" has quit brawl) and I think most TLs would be fine against pits in general...there are some things that I would like to point out though

The only Robs that I have fought were Mister Eric and Kira Flax..There is something about this MU that I believe would make things easier.

I don't think many TLs have sheik experience (I think Santi comes closet). The best sheik that I have fought was Judo and from my experience, anticipating sheik's approach and other things in this MU help secure a solid win.

Yes. I love fighting snake mains. I have a method that I "used" to use when it came to fighting snake (some of you will even think that I am trolling ). I have beaten Fatal, MVD and other snake players. I just feel like TL should be in control during most of this match and I have some new solutions that I have recently came up with.

I may not enjoy fighting Wario mains but I know what needs to be done. The most notable wario that I have beaten was Blue Rogue.

I have a fair amount of Wolf experience. I play with "Holms" as much as I play with Mr. Doom and Zeton and I can honestly say that this MU is a pain in the *** in you don't know what to do.

 

[army man]

SH=short hop
S=side
N=nuetral
F=forward
B=back
U=up
D=down
Tilt =holding control stick in one direction and pressing A, used to build damage.
Smash=chargable slower attacks usually used to KO opponents.
jab=usually a three hit combo used to start a combo or build damage

OK , well first of all, all good Ike users don't use their smashes, they switch their C stick to tilts instead of smash.lets start off with his jab, it's a three hit and it can be jab cancelled. it's usually used at low percents because it does 16% and racks up damage very quickly. it's fairly slow and has somewhat high ending lag so just power sheild through it if you have enough shield left.his dash attack is predictable and does only does 8%. his side tilt has high starting and ending lag so you can spot dodge it but be very careful it will kill a TL at 90%. his up tilt is hard to predict because it has no starting lag even though it has high end lag. it will kill at around 100%. his down tilt is usually never used because of high starting and ending lag. be cautious when recovering though, it can meteor smash; i found out the hard way. ok smashes, side smash is usually easy to avoid but if you're hit you're done for, it kills at around 65%.up smash is a little harder to predict, if you're falling back down always be aware for this and his Utilt while landing. his down smash is sad because it only does about 13% and has low knockback. the second swing, though it usually never connects, does about 16% that and has high knockback. all of ikes aerials ecxept his Nair have high knockback. Nair, though hits all around him does minimal damage and has low knockback and can be dodged fairly easily, but it can be used effectively after his opponent rolls by waiting SH a Nair. Fair, ike swings his sword down in front if him, you can just tell by the looks of it it will kill at 80%(it does) and has the longest range of any of his aerials. Bair has no starting lag and relatively low ending lag, it does around 14% and kills at around 80%; he cannot hit TL very easily with it though because TL is so short. his Uair stays for a long time and does 14%, though his inferior jumping limits how good this is on TL. Dair stays out A LONG TIME. it's fast, it does 16%, and can easily meteor smash, beware of this attack.OK, Ike's grabs may not look like much but they can lead into annoying combos. Uthrow does 6%, there isn't really much use for this grab. Fthrow does 6%, he can chain grab TL if by a wall.his Dthrow does 6% and can be immediatly followed up by his up B.his Bthrow does 6% and can be followed up by side B. specials are annoying but most can be dodged fairly easy. Nspecial is very good and long ranged, can kill at around 140% uncharged. it does 10% uncharged and 37% charged; it can kill at 0% if used at the right time. it is mostly used to guard the ledges but if you use the right recovery options it can be avoided. Sspecial is often used, does 9%uncharged and 16% charged fully charged, it can kill around120% fully charged and is often used as a recovery option. up B is a very special attack, during this attack he has a ton of invincibility frames and can't be lauched by ANYTHING. it does around 20 %, stay away from this attack, when it's used, it is also his main recovery option. counter, though slower than marth's, inflicts more damage, good Ike's normally don't use this because it can be counter grabbed and because of a slow start up.




countering Ike. this is the part where i give countering options hooray.

jab: it's strong and unpredictable so always be prepared for it, it can't be DI'd out of so all you can do is roll or sheid through it. after it's finished use any attack you want to rack up damage(like jab cancel him! TL's does15%or more)

Ftilt: most Ikes use this once you're at a higher % so if you are at a high % watch out for it and prepare to spot dodge, follow up with any longer ranged sword attacks.

Utilt: A good Ike will use this often to keep you in the air, it will kill at 80and up so if you are caught in this at low % pull out a bomb and Z drop or ibomb above him, landing safely after he rolls away from the bomb. if that doesn't work, try your luck at air dodging.

Dtilt: only watch out for this when recovering; a easy way to get past it is to ledge grab cancel through the ledge(with up B) and hit him without the chance of getting meteor smashed.

dash attack: it's slow and predictable, sheild it and use an attack of your choice.he may end up behind you sometimes.

Fsmash:don't try and roll, spot dodge, or sheild,(if you have to pick one, sheild),it's slow starting lag usually makes you spot dodge a fraction too early, and boom, you're dead.don't roll because it's so far ranged you'll sometimes just roll into it again. all you have to do is roll backwards away from it and throw a boomerang or shoot an arrow, that way you can slowly avoid and attack.

Usmash: his Usmash reaches very high in the air so look out for it while falling and drop a bomb or air dodge, his Usmah is easier to air dodge than his Utilt.

Dsmash:just dodge and attack, SH a nair or fair. never roll dodge against an Ike,he turns quickly and can jab cancel you.

Nair: though it's slow and weak it's easy to hit with, block and since he has a high jump landing lag follow up with a smash, grab, or tilt.

Fair:this attack is good, it is usually SH'd. it's his longest ranged aerial, so stay away and use projectiles,or sheild if you're too close to avoid

Bair: is ALWAYS SH'd. duck, then smash or tilt.

Uair: very slow but lasts a long time, fast fall and air dodge or ibomb, it can't be SH'd effectively

Dair: watch out for this while recovering it is one of the strongest in the game, and can be SH'd. Never dodge, this can be roll dodged and countered with a SH, tilt, grab, or smash.

grab: expect these alot, these are what lead into his major combos. just stay a distance away and use projectiles. if caught in a combo try and DI out of it.

nuetralB: this is used on recovering opponents,like I said before, use ledge grab cancel with your up B to hit him through the ledge and land yourself safely on the stage.

side B:this is easy, SH and quickdraw arrows; arrows, bombs, and boomerangs stop this attack, don't try to roll doge or spot dodge this attack, try and sheild it if you must. when he's using this to recover, shoot arrows or use your boomerang.


counter: its slow and easy to predict, grab, pummel once, Dthrow and up tilt.

up B: stay away from the ground by the ledge when he's using this, drop a bomb after jumping above him.

general: Ike is slow strong and tall, use this to your advantage. he doesn't have any projectiles so camp away. he's easy to SH Fair or Bair on and though his sword is the longest in the game just roll backwards SH Zair and follow up with spamming your Utilt. use bombs arrows and your boomerang, stay away from walls and grabs, use your superior speed to your advantage and win. thats all i got.

 

[MJG]

countering Ike. this is the part where i give countering options hooray.

jab: it's strong and unpredictable so always be prepared for it, it can't be DI'd out of so all you can do is roll or sheid through it. after it's finished use any attack you want to rack up damage(like jab cancel him! TL's does15%or more)

I stopped reading after that part. Not true @ all

 

[army man]

well i probably can't DI because i can't get out of it, i guess we need someone with more experience to do it. i'm so freaking sorry. do you want me to delete the post or what.

 

[MJG]

No don't delete it. Something useful could come out of it. TL shouldn't be getting that close to ike anyways...

EDIT: TL shouldn't want to get close to ike is what I should have said. Ike will catch TL eventually.

 

[army man]

i feel so stupid, i guess that's what happens when the best TL player in the midwest reviews a matchup.

 

[army man]

well anyway i need to know how to beat olimar, i get completley ***** by him, he can spam his smashes soooo much!!!!!!lol

 

[WindMajor]

My name isn't under Olimar, buuuuut

He's a tough one. You can't use that many bombs, but you can use nair/bair and your arrows/boomerangs. if you're close, zair will do you some good. basically what you want to do is drive him off stage or up in the air, since when he's on the ground, his best moves become available.

Doing that is a lot harder than it sounds, so when you actually do manage to do it, you have to take advantage of the situation. Get momentum from it, and try not to lose it.

 

[army man]

roger that, thanks i'll work on it

 

[army man]

will anyone volunteer for fox? i want to but at the same time i don't, and we need to start working on these. putting them off isn't helping much,no offense to anyone though. we need to start drafting.... no

 

[MJG]

I have already volunteered for fox. I am PRETTY good @ the MU @ this point.

 

[army man]

ok that's great! all we need now is _______ i don't know; i don't have anymore requests

 

[BRLNK88]

I don't play Brawl anymore, but when I did Wolf was the character I faced the most in tourney, never managed to beat one, its a pretty annoying MU.

Not that my opinion matters really now, but I got the Marth MU down to a science, its fun as hell when you know what you're doing.

 

[KT Kasrani]

im pretty good at the sonic MU.

beat speed consecutive times and we have talked and such and came to the realization that TL bodies sonic

 

[NearZzz]

tl vs sonic is 55/45

 

[KT Kasrani]

tl vs sonic is 55/45

i think its worse.

 

[NH Cody]

Sorry just got back from vacation.

so like, I know 3/4 of brawl matchups

.___.;;;

I'll put your name down...


except for ness since "yes" isn't proof

for ICs I'll accept "yea" since it is a simple MU to explain and I've seen you play good ICs mains.

for MK I'll put you down as knowing the MU "to an extent"

I don't play Brawl anymore, but when I did Wolf was the character I faced the most in tourney, never managed to beat one, its a pretty annoying MU.

Not that my opinion matters really now, but I got the Marth MU down to a science, its fun as hell when you know what you're doing.

Sooo I'll put you down for Marth. If you never beat wolf then...keep trying ^^;;

im pretty good at the sonic MU.

beat speed consecutive times and we have talked and such and came to the realization that TL bodies sonic

Nice.

I think it's only a slight advantage though, it's hard if the sonic knows what to do.

I'll put you down~

 

[MJG]

Sorry just got back from vacation.


for MK I'll put you down as knowing the MU "to an extent"

I have beaten good MKs. I know A LOT about the MU but I don't think any TL can honestly say that they have that MU completely down. You might as well take me off if you are gonna put "to an extent" next to my name.

 

[NH Cody]

I'll take the "to an extent" off

 

[KT Kasrani]

i finally came to the realization that i kno every MU to the key.

as long as u get the 1st kill with TL u can win any MU. nuff said

 

[NH Cody]

^ that's generally true...

except for marth and MK :/

at least for me.

 

[army man]

personaly i think you can go on a fail streak and they can win, or if they have the most epic come back ever

 

[MJG]

i finally came to the realization that i kno every MU to the key.

as long as u get the 1st kill with TL u can win any MU. nuff said

Thats brawl in general (for the most part), but TL benefits from that pretty well. He racks up damage quickly so yea and

^ that's generally true...

except for marth and MK :/

at least for me.

This.

 

[TL OWNS U]

Alright I'm finally posting my match up against a DK player

First off, I want to explain what advantages you have. Unlike DK you have projectiles that you can use at mid/long range. You are also faster than DK with most (if not all) of your moves. You have a very good air game against a DK player. Finally, you have a very good recovery.

Now when the match starts, almost every DK player will stt by charging up their punch. Your job is to stop it. This is where your projectiles come in handy. If DK is hit anytime charging his punch, he will have to start over. Even if his punch is charged all the way up, don't worry. He still has to catch you in order to hit you. If you know the basics about dodging and rolling, you should be able to avoid the attack, but DK has a move that stops you in your tracks if you're hit. If you are hit by DK's headbut, he has the change to hit you with a charged up punch, but if your % is below around 30 or 40 you should be able to get out of it before it lands. On the flipside, if your % is around 70% or above, you WILL lose a life unless you're lucky. In order to avoid any of this, your TL must be Agile. Another move you might want to watch out for is DK's Ground Pound. If hit, you will launch into the air above DK which gives DK a change to Up Smash you. You may be thinking "Time for a Down Air", that also probably what the DK player wll think. While the DAir move has some power to t, it's predictable. Chances are the DK player will roll/dodge and if they have a charged up punch, they will hit you with it.

Now I will tell you what you should when facing a DK player. Like I said your projectiles come in handy since DK doesn;t have any. This is a good way to get DK's % up without having to get close to him. While DK does have some dangerous moves in close combat, don't be afraid to get in close for a hit. Your speed is the advantage here. Use it. Your grappling hook is also an advantage because you can grab DK at a longer range, but the flipside is that if you miss you're vunerable for 2 seconds. Your hook is not only for grabbing though. You can also use it for a teather recovery if your opponent is waiting for you at the edge. Now we need to get into TL's air game. Your air game is just amazing. You can air juggle him to keep him in the air and keep landing easy hits on him. This is also a place where you can KO DK with either your Sideairs. I would reccomend only using TL's Dair if you know it's going to it. Reason being is if you miss, when you hit the ground, you're vunerable for 2 seconds and if you don't hit any ground at all, you lose a life.


I don't know if I should add more or not or if I should make things more clear. This is really the 1st time I'e done something like this.