Toon Link Q&A and FAQ Thread <- VISIT THIS THREAD BEFORE CREATING A NEW TOPIC

[DeLux]

Just saying, never say never or don't ever

Or then you end up dying to the most Dairing of opponents

 

[kataklysm336]

I'm interested in kill % for some moves, particularly dsmash, usmash, utilt. Is there a resource with this information, or does anyone know off hand?

 

[southpaw]

uhhh mid ish weight chars (mario) die from being hit by upsmash at like 125 light chars like mk die around 115. heavy chars like snake d3 dont die till like 160. Weak hit upsmash never kills. Uptilt kills like 20% later and dsmash 25% later according to our guide. If a move is staled once it kills around 15% later than fresh. This of course is assuming good DI and whatever, but its good to be safe and only try to kill with moves if you know it will kill.
I dont really think about the numbers when I play I just do it when I feel like the moves will kill lol.

 

[G-Dub]

UAir kills amazingly early (especially the higher in the air it is) usually around 100% (strong hitbox)

 

[KT Kasrani]

SB is dead. everyone come here. read the blog and join

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=149569

 

[Dre89]

Hey guys how do you camp vertically on a stage with platforms? I know platform stages are supposed to be better for it, but the platforms just seem to get in the way of my bombs and other projectiles. Thanks in advance.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

1. Is TL good at footsies?
2. Does TL have a cb?
3. Should I use arrows more? I find them tedious to use since they're so slow
4. What % does TL die at?
5. How is TL against wolf?
6. If you dodge the boomerang when it comes back to you will it come back again or no?
7. How many recovery options does TL have? As far as I know he has 3
8. What if I don't like camping?
9. Who does the pull out for bombs seem so slow? are they even spammable!?
10. Which would be a better main? TL, Pit or Wolf?

 

[Dekillsage]

1. Is TL good at footsies? No
2. Does TL have a cb? No
3. Should I use arrows more? I find them tedious to use since they're so slow? No
4. What % does TL die at? 87%
5. How is TL against wolf? Bad
6. If you dodge the boomerang when it comes back to you will it come back again or no? No
7. How many recovery options does TL have? As far as I know he has 3. None
8. What if I don't like camping? Don't play TL
9. Who does the pull out for bombs seem so slow? are they even spammable!? It's slow
10. Which would be a better main? TL, Pit or Wolf? MetaKnight

 

[southpaw]

1. Is TL good at footsies? toon links footsies are teeny tiny
2. Does TL have a cb? toon links c0ck block is pretty good actually since hes a small child and doesnt know any better
3. Should I use arrows more? I find them tedious to use since they're so slow Use quickdraws on landings they be like Frosted Flakes TTHEEEYYYRRREEE GRERREEEAAAAATTTTT
4. What % does TL die at? all percents yo. toon link is like mid weight so he lives a little longer than light weights that explode instantly.
5. How is TL against wolf? he loses imo
6. If you dodge the boomerang when it comes back to you will it come back again or no? it'll come back after awhile. boomerang always come back<3
7. How many recovery options does TL have? 2 up b and tether lol
8. What if I don't like camping? play melee instead....O WAIT!!!!...play a char without projectiles then
9. Who does the pull out for bombs seem so slow? are they even spammable!? its not that slow, it is hard to figure out when to pull bombs safely actually.
10. Which would be a better main? TL, Pit or Wolf? Id say the most viable char out of those is pit. but its 2013 yo pick a top tier

 

[B0NK]

1. Is TL good at footsies? Nope
2. Does TL have a cb? No, he doesn't have a Critical Blowback moves.
3. Should I use arrows more? I find them tedious to use since they're so slow. More? There's hardly times to use it.
4. What % does TL die at? Were you thrown off stage or grabbed by ICs? Then 0%
5. How is TL against wolf? "I...can't...lose!" - Wolf O' Donnell Star Fox 64 So yeah, he doesn't do well against Wolf
6. If you dodge the boomerang when it comes back to you will it come back again or no? It's a boomerang, it always comes back.
7. How many recovery options does TL have? As far as I know he has 3 He actually doesn't even have that...
8. What if I don't like camping? Why are you playing a Smash game?
9. Who does the pull out for bombs seem so slow? are they even spammable!? You "spam" them because you have no other moves. So nope they aren't spammable.
10. Which would be a better main? TL, Pit or Wolf? Probably Meta Knight

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

thanks for the.. colourful responses.

 

[WindMajor]

Late but

1. Is TL good at footsies? No, he's too slow and has too little sword range.
2. Does TL have a cb? No, TL sucks.
3. Should I use arrows more? I find them tedious to use since they're so slow Use quickdrawed arrows and arrows while moving in the air cause they are faster/give you better mobility
4. What % does TL die at? As early as 0%.
5. How is TL against wolf? you could drop your controller and do better than if you had tried against wolf.
6. If you dodge the boomerang when it comes back to you will it come back again or no? after like a million seconds yes, but if you're like me you will throw empty boomerangs and not give a f#ck i mean because mindgamez
7. How many recovery options does TL have? As far as I know he has 3 once you die the little platform will pick you up twice before you lose
8. What if I don't like camping? stay in your room dont go outdoors
9. Who does the pull out for bombs seem so slow? are they even spammable!? they are very slow but u need bombs cause they are really good tools also they go boom
10. Which would be a better main? TL, Pit or Wolf? pick a top tier

 

[onlyaaron17]

Ugh I was looking all over the q and A thread for this. I don't even know the correct term for this, but when you are using toon link... How do you do a move where you jump in the air, and you face one direction, and when you trow a boomerang, you quickly throw it in the opposite direction, with momentum pulling you the way the boomerang was thrown. It almost looks instant. Another example to describe it is ZSS and you aim one direction yet you instantly shoot in the opposite direction with your blaster (B move). If you know, could you also tell me the term as well?

 

[WindMajor]

It's called a wavebounce, but people will typically call it a B-Reversal.

To do it:
Run Forward -> Jump -> Throw an Arrow -> Quickly hit Back

With a Boomerang:
Run Forward -> Jump -> Hit Forward -> Throw Boomerang Backwards

The timing is a little harder for a boomerang I find.

 

[Darktega]

So... People, I have a Toon Link friend and he will be my teammate, what character do you think makes a better strategy with him and why?

 

[G-Dub]

MK cause MK.
Toon link can tank stocks and MK can go in.

 

[Darktega]

MK cause MK.
Toon link can tank stocks and MK can go in.

Well, gotta work with it then, thanks.

 

[G-Dub]

OH and MK can save toon link from gimps.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Does anyone know how to kill yoshi with toon link? I just don't know how mostly cause I get egged half the time and I can never get a good bomb in. Approaches with dash attack and I can't dodge the grab dash cause how long it stays out. I get spiked offstage and he ground pounds alot. I would punish but the stars on yoshi kee me from doing that! Can anyone help?

 

[NH Cody]

u don't even need 2 kill yoshi you can just throw boomerangs for 8 minutes ez win

 

[Grvnger]

Does anyone know how to kill yoshi with toon link? I just don't know how mostly cause I get egged half the time and I can never get a good bomb in. Approaches with dash attack and I can't dodge the grab dash cause how long it stays out. I get spiked offstage and he ground pounds alot. I would punish but the stars on yoshi kee me from doing that! Can anyone help?

In order to kill most other characters on the roster with TL, a great sense of patience is key. Just gain strong stage control by walling Yoshi out with your superior projectile capabilities, and wait for him to approach or change his strategy. Focus more so on general projectile walling than just trying to get in on him via bomb play. Punish any obvious or habitual approaches/habits that the Yoshi may try to use on you. A well timed bair or fair will most likely secure you the kill by the later 100s of yoshi's damage intake, and an usmash/utilt will probably off him a bit earlier. Nair pokes that send Yoshi offstage can also make it easier for TL to gain stage control/make possible advances on killing Yoshi with quick moves. Learning the timings/hitboxes on Yoshi's grabs will be your best bet to avoid them in the future, and ground pounds can most easily be punished by running or walking > powershielding/jumping over the ground pound star hitbox > fast punish option of your choice. In regards to avoiding getting spiked, just practice recovering away from Yoshi at very unpredictable angles. Yoshi's spike is relatively easy to predict if you respect its hitbox, so find an evasion method that works for you.

Or you can time him out.

 

[Marthcrazy101]

Does toon link have any meteor smashes/spikes?

 

[WindMajor]

Down Air works.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Does anyone know how to deal with D3?

 

[NH Cody]

you camp and never approach

 

[WindMajor]

You never ever ever ever want to get grabbed by D3 because once you get grabbed your momentum is lost.

Pick stages that give you enough platforms and space to run around. Lylat and Battlefield are good. Stay in the air, stick to the platforms, and cover your landings with bombs. The floor is lava, remember that. When D3 is in the air, he'll try to land with a mix of Bair and Inhale. I find that it basically depends where you're standing (if you're in front, its an inhale, if you're behind by a little bit, it's a Bair, if you're really behind, wavebounce inhale or nothing).

Whenever you get grabbed, scream so that the D3 will get distracted. Then say you're sorry mid match so he'll lose focus.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

What about when he uses waddle dee toss? It blocks a lot of things like when I throw boomerang, use arrows, and throw bombs. The hardest thing for me is when I miss a tech then he uses fsmash or either shield>shieldgrab. Another problem is when I diagonal from D3 in the air and it's hard for me to pull out a bomb and throw it straight at him because both angles (left/right and down) would miss him and the only other option is to bomb drop, but that doesn't work too often since he runs past it then pivot grab me when I'm in my landing lag. Boomerang and arrow wouldn't work and for the most part, it's hard to predict the next thing D3 will do.

 

[WindMajor]

You gotta kinda weave around waddle dees. If they're blocking you, you can use DTilt to swat them away. It'll unstale moves! :D Luckily D3 is kinda tall, so you don't have to ground all your arrows and boomerangs to have them hit. You can shorthop over waddle dees and things will be a-okay.

When you're in a diagonal position, your can try holding onto a bomb. Bombs interrupt chain grabs, so you can probably Z-Drop bombs on yourself (it's only 3%) or hold onto it if you want more of a delayed explosion. I know you said that Z-Drops haven't been working but it sounds like you're Z-Dropping and moving away. Stick with it.

Alternatively, you can do something completely different, like Z-Drop -> Sword, or move somewhere else. Idk, be creative.

 

[CURRY]

Can I just have some very very basic Brawl things?
Obvously maining TL. But, I don't play with friends very often, so I have to stick with CPUs.
For melee, I've heard that playing against lvl 9s can be pretty bad, with the player developing some bad habits, so you have to train against low level CPUs for combing and teching...? But I assume that this is much less useful in Brawl. So should I stick to lvl 9s or 1-3? And how would I train against them?

And what about spacing, and handling stages? Like I've heard things about how it was impossible to approach people under the tree in Melee Pokemon Stadium, but I don't get it.
Is it just simply reflexes when it comes to the DI where you angle towards the corner of the stage when launched? And how do you know which way you're facing, so that you can quickly do a BAir? (or do you not do it at all...? most completitive TLs I see don't do an aerial, but instead pull out a bomb, boomerang to keep the opponent back, then recover accordingly... so yep)

 

[WindMajor]

Hi!

Can I just have some very very basic Brawl things?
Obvously maining TL. But, I don't play with friends very often, so I have to stick with CPUs.
For melee, I've heard that playing against lvl 9s can be pretty bad, with the player developing some bad habits, so you have to train against low level CPUs for combing and teching...? But I assume that this is much less useful in Brawl. So should I stick to lvl 9s or 1-3? And how would I train against them?

They both have their uses. If you want to learn a little bit of the matchup, I'd choose to practice against level 9s. If I just want to practice strings and prevent bad habits, I'd choose to play level 3s. If you have Wi-Fi, I recommend you try that to get used to fighting real opponents, but before and after playing wifi to warm up/finish up with CPUs.

And what about spacing, and handling stages? Like I've heard things about how it was impossible to approach people under the tree in Melee Pokemon Stadium, but I don't get it.

You can approach, but your approach would be mega telegraphed and high risk/high reward. Certain stages affect the match-up considerably, and if you learn how certain qualities of the stage affect the match-up, it'll be easier to pick which stage to go on. For example, Halberd in one portion has a floor that can be passed through from below. Toon Link can't really take advantage of that, but Pit/Kirby/Metaknight can, so don't take them there. Castle Siege has a lot of space for Toon Link to run around, so it's a pretty good idea to take opponents there, but Castle Siege also has walk-offs in the 2nd transformation. Don't take a chaingrabber like King Dedede there. Get the idea?

Is it just simply reflexes when it comes to the DI where you angle towards the corner of the stage when launched? And how do you know which way you're facing, so that you can quickly do a BAir? (or do you not do it at all...? most completitive TLs I see don't do an aerial, but instead pull out a bomb, boomerang to keep the opponent back, then recover accordingly... so yep)

I find that every time you get smashed away from the stage, your character always changes face towards the stage. Since you're Toon Link, that means that you're gonna want to C-Stick Right 100% of the time so you can get a Bair out, never Up, Down, or Left. And yes, it is simply reflexes (with a little bit of prediction) when it comes to where to DI.

 

[CURRY]

Whoa. o.o Thanks SO much for the fast reply :D
But in the third part with momentum cancelling, you DO mean just away from the stage, right? Not literally C-Sticking to the right 100% of the time?
Also, getting launched directly up, I would assume just C-stick to the right...?
Is a CPU in "Stop" better or worse than a low lvl CPU? And right now, I'm using Training Mode 24/7 instead of the normal Brawl. Should I just use the normal Brawl instead of Training?

LAST THING. For now.
Some basic TL pointers for FFA? :3

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah you're right. C-Stick away from the stage, not always to the right. I messed up, whoops!

I'd say to get a low level CPU because I feel like they'll actually try to SDI your attacks, which can be important.

In an FFA, be that jerk that stands in the far side of the stage throwing the occasional bomb and a boomerang, or otherwise does nothing. All the work will be done for you, no effort required. :D

 

[CURRY]

How effective is just BAiring, then doing that reverse arrow thing, compared to the reverse quick shot?

I've been trying the RQS for like, three weeks now, still haven't got it :I
So should I just do a BAir then reversed arrow?the fastfall seems to take about as much time it does to just do a normal reversed arrow. TL also kind of accidentally does an SMS too. but meh.

 

[CURRY]

At about what percent should my opponents be dying at? vs lvl 9 CPU, it's about ~140%, and with lvl 3s, it's ~100%... so not really much better.

 

[CURRY]

On laggy TVs (my area does snot have any good brawlers anymore, really... I don't think there has ever really been)
I have trouble with even the noobiest of MK nado spammers. So besides zair, how do I do this...?
Bombs or something or advfljnaergfaerf. Just one projectile so that I could deal with him.

Also, laggy TV = cannot punish end lag; this guy also doesn't controll the direction of his nado well, so yeah

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Wow triple post . Besides zair, have you tried tilting your shield up so he doesn't shield poke you? Best thing to do if you don't think you can punish, but you could always throw a bomb right in the center of his tornado which'll stop it and if you're in the tornado zair the bomb asap when you have the chance. You'll both have a chance to attack each other after that so it'll be sort of a "who can attack fastest" after that. Just to make sure again if you don't think you're able to punish after shielding and you end up trying to do it anyways I wouldn't suggest it. Most MK's use dsmash right afterwards which is dangerous.

 

[CURRY]

lol triple post because none of the questions were answered. And I already deited that first one in the series 3 times too, so I kinda gave up.
Which should I usually do....???
Okay. Another question. What does tilting shield up do?? I never knew that it did anything... I really thought the shield, no matter how small, its hitbox thing would always be a cover for your character's whole body.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Marf's dtilt, MK's nado above shield shield pressuring and some other can "bypass" your shield and attack you. It's called shield stabbing which is like breaking your shield if you hold on to it for too long except you don't have that long stun when your shield breaks, doesn't matter how big your shield is shield stabbing can happen to any character (I'm talking to you bowser) and shield stabbing can just get into your shield. In short terms, things like MK's nado shield pressuring you from above can FORCE you to drop your shield and continue the barrage of attacks. We angle our shield "up" to NOT get shield stabbed. This works 100% for MK nado, but Idk about marf's down tilt and some of the other characters. I hope that made sense. Lemme know if it doesn't.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

How effective is just BAiring, then doing that reverse arrow thing, compared to the reverse quick shot?

I've been trying the RQS for like, three weeks now, still haven't got it :I
So should I just do a BAir then reversed arrow?the fastfall seems to take about as much time it does to just do a normal reversed arrow. TL also kind of accidentally does an SMS too. but meh.

Judging by your posts and such, I don't think you're quite ready for the 'reverse quick shot', nor will you be likely to need it. It just helps to speed things up. If you can't see the difference then maybe you've been Bairing too late and have not been fast falling early enough (which incidentally would make it more difficult to perform). My advice for you would be to do what you were thinking and to just stick with Bair to "reverse arrow thing" XD.

At about what percent should my opponents be dying at? vs lvl 9 CPU, it's about ~140%, and with lvl 3s, it's ~100%... so not really much better.

It's better to talk about this sort of thing in terms of which character Toon is versing, not what level the cpu is.

On laggy TVs (my area does snot have any good brawlers anymore, really... I don't think there has ever really been)
I have trouble with even the noobiest of MK nado spammers. So besides zair, how do I do this...?
Bombs or something or advfljnaergfaerf. Just one projectile so that I could deal with him.

Also, laggy TV = cannot punish end lag; this guy also doesn't controll the direction of his nado well, so yeah

Most people will tell you to just not play on laggy tv's period, but if this really isn't an option, then you probably just want to wait it out in your shield (tilt your shield up when necessary) then move away and full hop bomb pull. Everything depends on what they do though.

Okay. Another question. What does tilting shield up do?? I never knew that it did anything... I really thought the shield, no matter how small, its hitbox thing would always be a cover for your character's whole body.

When the shield gets smaller, parts of the character will not be covered by the shield anymore. If a hitbox comes into contact with one of those exposed parts and at the same time avoids coming into contact with what's left of your shield, you will get hit as if you hadn't been using your shield at all. Toon's head is big and his feet are small, that's why we will generally tilt our shield up when it gets smaller.

 

[CURRY]

So apparently moves don't stale unless they hit a hitbox??
So for example, after a usmash kill, could I taunt by spamming usmash? The "hyaap" sound... oh my gawd

Being a pretty novice smasher, and not being able to play on WiFi or with other humans (that are better than me) that much, I think I developed a pattern? So like, when I play Toon, I mostly either:

Do lots of shorthopping; lots of arrows, Zairs, bomb pull quickdraws, etc.
OR
I jump around all over the place, with Boomerang, rarely an arrow, lots of Zairs, and lots of bombs.
I know that I have to record to get a critique, and honestly, I'm too lazy. But is there some very very common mistake that TL make with bombs? Because I find that my bombs are staling a LOT.

Do I just watch more pro tourneys?
And since I kinda hit a (low) plateau with TL, I went ahead and did a secondary character, Marth; which I had to use the claw grip on... and now I find myself barely using Nair on TL...
I only Nair when I consciously think of it and pretty much say to myself, "I need to get some Nairs in." But I'm still using Nair in all the wrong situations. Does the normal way of holding actually benefit more than the claw grip then?

Also I remember there being a true combo or something? Like Zair to Nair, or Nair to Zair...?
Thanks -^^-