Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #2: Olimar

[Zori]

i know the match up but apparently im not a 'good' olimar because i lost a friendly 7 months ago

 

[Fino]

i know the match up but apparently im not a 'good' olimar because i lost a friendly 7 months ago

No, it's because you play blue gloves :3


~Fino

 

[PhantomX]

There are soooooo many times that Olimar could've grabbed or pivot grabbed you in that match, HyRo... not to mention he gave up control of the middle of the stage way too easily, allowing you to push him to the edges where Olimar is severely limited. Also, what's to stop a competent Olimar from spacing your nairs, and then whistling your arrows into whatever move they want?

Zori, you are good, but you weren't playing well for most of that round, and that's what's being evaluated... plus Santi was probably better than you as a whole anyway (I still love you).

 

[NeoCrono]

i know the match up but apparently im not a 'good' olimar because i lost a friendly 7 months ago

Dude, your good. Stop getting down on yourself
I still <3 you

 

[Arcadia]

Fyi, that olimar in the vid today (yesterday) was me. Call me a scrub, but other than the dsmash gimp, I'd say it was fairly close. Hyro's a better player than me, that's why he won. We both made our mistakes, but then again, when do you ever see a flawless match?

I don't main or second olimar, but I did put in a little time to learn oli to cp a good D3, since I main Lucario.

Hyro's Tink is ****ing annoying.

 

[Fino]

I'd like to note from playing MJG today that if Olimar shields the Nair it's almost always a free upsmash.
Counter arguments / strategies?

Offer is still up to play some of you on lolwifi.... though wifi is terribad <.<


~Fino

 

[Sosuke]

I'll play, Fino. =)

I might get ***** the first match or two, because I'm not good at this match up yet. haha
But then it'll probably be better.

 

[Hyro]

I'd like to note from playing MJG today that if Olimar shields the Nair it's almost always a free upsmash.
Counter arguments / strategies?

Offer is still up to play some of you on lolwifi.... though wifi is terribad <.<


~Fino

My wii is still in repair so I can't...

But yeah, can't Toon Link fast fall his nair to stop your usmash? And any shielded attack can usually be punished with quick reactions. I remember first seeing Dojo vs. M2K...they only attacked in front of each other, not directly on each others shields. Olimar might even be able to punish with a fair huh?

 

[Fino]

My wii is still in repair so I can't...

But yeah, can't Toon Link fast fall his nair to stop your usmash? And any shielded attack can usually be punished with quick reactions. I remember first seeing Dojo vs. M2K...they only attacked in front of each other, not directly on each others shields. Olimar might even be able to punish with a fair huh?

I just got done playing one of the tlinks... full hopped fair seemed to beat out tlinks nair... though fullhoping close range with olimar is relatively high-risk high-reward.

Anyways... just PM me or hit me on aim (Fino0437) I'm bored tonight now that the 4th is over.... prolly fall asleep in an hour or so.

I'll be waiting :D


~Fino

 

[MJG]

I just got done playing one of the tlinks... full hopped fair seemed to beat out tlinks nair... though fullhoping close range with olimar is relatively high-risk high-reward.

Anyways... just PM me or hit me on aim (Fino0437) I'm bored tonight now that the 4th is over.... prolly fall asleep in an hour or so.

I'll be waiting :D


~Fino

If this is the case, and if you and other olimars decided to exploit this too much, we could just run under you and start a Bair chain (Depending on the percentage obviously)

I dont think that it will become a huge issue but i think ive seen this in other toonlink vs olimar videos.

Doesn't fair do like 14-16% with yellow/red pikmin?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Its hard to do a summary when there are so many different oppinions on the matchup >_>.

 

[MJG]

Its hard to do a summary when there are so many different oppinions on the matchup >_>.

mmm...i would say take the bulk of the information from people who contributed something that is actually "useful" but you can't really wrap anything up considering the fact that you are right, this discussion has way too many opinions. You can still formulate something im sure

 

[Hyro]

That's not really a key point in this matchup though...you should never be wailing on someones sheild in the first place. Too easy to punish. Space further away lol

 

[Fino]

That's not really a key point in this matchup though...you should never be wailing on someones sheild in the first place. Too easy to punish. Space further away lol

Weren't you the one saying nair and arrow win this match-up?

@.@ So if you use your winning move in the match-up.... and I shield it, and it's punishable by a dashing usmash.... doesn't that put a hole in your strategy?


~Fino

 

[Hyro]

Weren't you the one saying nair and arrow win this match-up?

@.@ So if you use your winning move in the match-up.... and I shield it, and it's punishable by a dashing usmash.... doesn't that put a hole in your strategy?


~Fino

Not in the slightest...no attack should be used on someones sheild, that's how you get punished. And there's ways to get around that. I can full hop a nair and land with a zair. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretttty confident a full hopped nair can't be punished by a usmash.

 

[MJG]

Not in the slightest...no attack should be used on someones sheild, that's how you get punished. And there's ways to get around that. I can full hop a nair and land with a zair. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretttty confident a full hopped nair can't be punished by a usmash.

You can Bair a shield while moving into your opponent and air dodge and avoid almost any move ( i say this because idk if you can avoid everything)

 

[Sosuke]

I still don't know how you guys do full hop Nair and hit them on the way up. o_O
maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Metatitan]

I still don't know how you guys do full hop Nair and hit them on the way up. o_O
maybe I'm missing something.

I assume they buffered the Nairs?

 

[copacetic]

there was honestly a little while where I forgot how to full hop after just picking up TL

FH nair definitely helps a lot in this matchup. And bombs aren't too bad if you just stick with ibomb

 

[MJG]

there was honestly a little while where I forgot how to full hop after just picking up TL

FH nair definitely helps a lot in this matchup. And bombs aren't too bad if you just stick with ibomb

The pikmin interrupt most of the bomb play unless your jumping all over the place on a stage like FD...even then olimar can punish...I bomb works fairly well and i am still able to throw a bomb when I JC throw a bomb but most of the time, the pikmin placement on tink will interrupt bomb play easily...

 

[TrIkZ]

i hate olimars grabs so i try to keep my distance with projectiles but bombs don't really work and the rang is just like... an annoyance for them arrows work but not a smart idea. I use alot of zairs and ibombs JC bomb works wonders.

 

[Thebest1pj]

i actually learned the matchup from watching santi in his playboy tl outfit vs cake. bombs arent as bad in this matchup as people make them about to be if i attempt it its a fullhop throw with a rang thrown downwards to i agree with hyro though. random side note wtf were people thinking when they thought of *tink* cmon now he already dresses like peter pan just stop plz

 

[Snail]

55/45 in Olimar's favor because of the killing percentages. It really is a hopelessly annoying match-up though <__<

 

[MJG]

i actually learned the matchup from watching santi in his playboy tl outfit vs cake. bombs arent as bad in this matchup as people make them about to be if i attempt it its a fullhop throw with a rang thrown downwards to i agree with hyro though. random side note wtf were people thinking when they thought of *tink* cmon now he already dresses like peter pan just stop plz

Thats just one olimar. Trust me, every olimar is different outside of the start up combos that they do. You can't really learn a match up until you practice it with at least one other olimar @.@. Besides, Santi himself even said in the description for his video that he was just playing loosely during the friendly and you can see that with the number of times he attempted to f smash against olimar. He gives a good understanding on how to be aggressive though.

Note: I found that an arrow, whether it is charge or not, will usually take away olimars second jump when hes recovering. This is more situational than anything. I also found that when playing against fino's olimar that Zair to a dash attack when olimar is on the ledge sets up for an easy follow from fair, nair or you can just hang on the ledge immediately because i know that he does this if he is too low and doesn't think that he will make it. Dash attack is awesome. Hyro already expressed its pure Awesomeness and this is just one more thing to prove that he is right. ^_^

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

Sorry about that. My friend got on my account and put some really stupid posts everywhere. Don't take anything personally.

 

[WindMajor]

Quit Brawl, and quit Toon Link, and not neccesarily in that order.

Rude much?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Quit Brawl, and quit Toon Link, and not neccesarily in that order.

Ummm ok? Ur flame was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Quit Brawl, and quit Toon Link, and not neccesarily in that order.

Wow, your flame was so random.........gtfo.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Thats just one olimar. Trust me, every olimar is different outside of the start up combos that they do. You can't really learn a match up until you practice it with at least one other olimar @.@. Besides, Santi himself even said in the description for his video that he was just playing loosely during the friendly and you can see that with the number of times he attempted to f smash against olimar. He gives a good understanding on how to be aggressive though.

Note: I found that an arrow, whether it is charge or not, will usually take away olimars second jump when hes recovering. This is more situational than anything. I also found that when playing against fino's olimar that Zair to a dash attack when olimar is on the ledge sets up for an easy follow from fair, nair or you can just hang on the ledge immediately because i know that he does this if he is too low and doesn't think that he will make it. Dash attack is awesome. Hyro already expressed its pure Awesomeness and this is just one more thing to prove that he is right. ^_^

just sayin its a more updated video since some got mad when hyro used the one from the year 1678 jk

 

[Jash]

Even matchup i believe, it can go either way as i study the matchup.

 

[Fino]

Even matchup i believe, it can go either way as i study the matchup.

Jash agrees with my numbers... and so does jerm... and jash posts in green.

I think I win :D

<33 lol


~Fino

 

[Sosuke]

Why do we even have these discussions if we can just ask Jash his opinions on them?

 

[Bshaw718]

Quit Brawl, and quit Toon Link, and not neccesarily in that order.

ban *****^^^


and do we have a summary on this match-up yet???

 

[Lobos]

Why do we even have these discussions if we can just ask Jash his opinions on them?

Because Jash is a noob >_>

 

[TLMSheikant]

Summary:

Even 50:50

Best Stage to fight Olimar on:

Worst Stage to fight Olimar on:

Olimar is a very campy character with a lot of powerful tools to camp and keep the camping going. Olimar with his pikmin game shuts down Toon Link's camp game almost completely if not completely. His pikmin make it almost impossible to use bombs effectively in the matchup since if you have a pikmin latched onto you and you throw the bomb it will explode in your face and cause damage to yourself. His pikmin also block boomerang and arrows. Because of this, Toon Link has to play aggresive and get through Olimar's spam. Neutral Air breaks through pikmin and will be used the most in this matchup to approach usually followed up by an arrow cancel. Beware as his purple pikmin wont be killed by nair.

His pivot grab has low cooldown and a lot of range so be on the lookout for it while approaching. His blue pikmin give him the most range while grabbing. His white pikmin have the most damage output with side b but are weak at everything else. His red pikmin have a lot of knockback and are generally used for finishing aerials and KO moves. His yellow pikmin have low knockback and electric hitlag with multihit moves such as upair allowing for more combos. His purple pikmin hit hard and do a lot of damage and are generally used to KO with uthrow or as a proyectile with side b. (they dont latch and do damage instead) Everytime you are grabbed expect to be combo'd a lot :/. They can follow up their down throw with an upsmash and if you dont DI the upsmash to the side they can combo you with aerials too if you arent careful.

Olimar's biggest weakness is his recovery. So whenever you have the opportunity, go for the gimp. Zair to dash attack at the edge of the stage works wonders for this. Nair and fair is also a good offstage edgeguard. Beware of his whistle though, it has super armor frames and good olis use it to avoid gimps. If you get Olimar very far offstage, just edgehog and prepare to press L/R exactly when the olimar uses upB (like in melee) that way you dont get hit by the upB and risk being stagespiked and you gimp Olimar at the same time. If Olimar is close enough to you while trying to recover, he can upair, nair or fair to get you off the ledge and then upB to get back safely so be careful of that too.

Back air, Neutral air, Zair, jab, Boomerangs and arrow cancels are your most effective tools in this matchup. The best stages to fight Olimar is generally stages where you can abuse his recovery problem easier and small stages without a lot of space to close the gap quickly. You will want to avoid stages like norfair and pirate ship where there are lots of ledges/water to allow Olimar to recover. Good stages to fight Olimar on are Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes and Battlefield. (because of its small size)

Olimar also kills Toon Link a lot easier than Toon Link can kill him which is the biggest problem in the matchup for Toon Link aside from having to approach and being badly outcamped.

TL;DR- Do not camp olimar, dont use bombs, beware of pivot grabs while approaching, DI his throw combos and gimp him. Hyro: Nair to arrow cancel .

 

[Sosuke]

If only people posted in the CP/ban thread more so I could update it more frequently, so we could get to re-discussions so we wouldn't have banned stages as CPs/bans against characters.

if onlyyyyyyyyy

 

[Fino]

Olimar's biggest weakness is his priority.

*fixed*

Only glaring problem... otherwise I say it's not bad ;D


~Fino

 

[MJG]

*fixed*

Only glaring problem... otherwise I say it's not bad ;D


~Fino

Don't listen to fino. He is a scrub (much love <3)

Awesome job wrapping this summary up.

With the Frigate stage, I think that if we can control the left side of the stage at the beginning of the match, we will be in good shape since the right side will screw olimar hard. Also, Shield Grabs wont be as effective on the second transition since the slop interferes with that.

Good Job again.

 

[Weruop]

Two of your 4 prolimars you've heard of put me in their top five list in the nation (for olimar). One of them (weruop) said I'm flat out better than him in IRL play. We don't really rank ourselves in a 1-2-3 order, we have a mutual respect for each other and base people in a general skill area... never do we say this one person is better than that other person unless it's someone admitting that they aren't as good as someone else.
Just for name throwing around

Also, I didn't disreguard what everyone said... I made some minor adjustments and help to questions raised and comments made. You can't have a match-up discussion with ill-informed members and bias members... which is why people often ask that mains from other forums come in and discuss with them.
Also note that I am very afraid of tlink, which is why I said I lean towards a 50-50.


~Fino

the last time i was tlaking about the top olimars with u fino was a looong time ago. :/ im sure ive caught up to u by now offline lol

 

[MJG]

Yay! Thanks for the random comment on the closed thread! *Sarcasm*