Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #2: Olimar

[Sosuke]

* Olimar

* Counter- Jungle Japes, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island
* Ban- Luigi's Mansion

? >_>


Oh wow, that stage got removed. >_<
Olimar is also the only one with one ban stage on that list? Ughhhhh

Oh well, it'll be fixed when its rediscussed.


I hope the counter picks are at least still valid.

 

[Hyro]

Let's get started.

First off, no 80-20 was a joke. I definitley think it's in our advantage though.

My mistake for saying Olimar uses grab releases. Let me rephrase that. GOOD Olimar mains use grab releases. Why the **** WOULDN'T they. Everyone is scared of Olimar's grab, initial reactions makes you spot dodge upon getting grab released. Perfect time for Olimar to charge a dsmash for the kill without the need to get through any spam.

Next up we got, "Don't listen to Dabuz". From what I hear, he's one of the best Olimar mains online and offline. Fino? Never heard of you.

Dsmash's up. You've explained to me with all your pretty frame data why SHAD'ing a dsmash would not work, yet you tell me how you can grab people and fsmash people offstage. You DO realize why'll you're going for all that, we can jump next to you and dsmash?

Who the hell are YOU to tell a Toon Link main that grab release to dsmash and zair to dsmash won't work? I've DONE it. Zair, wait for their landing and dsmash at the right time. Grab, release, wait for the spotdodge, charge a dsmash and hit. We like to call them minegamez son. Good luck teching that consistently. Your friend was shocked that you did it once. That's saying something.

The video I posted was to show simple techniques vs Olimar, where I first saw them. It doesn't matter how old it was if I was talking about specific parts of the vid.

Finally, you're basing all of this matchup talk from playing MJG? You're kidding me right? No offense to MJG, but there are better Toon Links and everything I've said was based off playing MANY Olimars.

I was wrong about the range of an usmash...but to be honest, just because you can copy and paste frame data doesn't mean you know much about the matchup at all.

But like...you're good at reading! :nerd: :bigthumbu

 

[Power of Slash]

So just for future references.

Let's keep this civil guys.

On a side note, I do find your tips helpful HyRo, and am going to try a bit of these that you're suggesting.

Though I feel that it must be said, we can't really factor mindgames and such into matchup ratios. Depends too much on player skill for us to be able to do that.

Lol, this matchup is so strenuous.

 

[MJG]

Let's get started.

First off, no 80-20 was a joke. I definitley think it's in our advantage though.

My mistake for saying Olimar uses grab releases. Let me rephrase that. GOOD Olimar mains use grab releases. Why the **** WOULDN'T they. Everyone is scared of Olimar's grab, initial reactions makes you spot dodge upon getting grab released. Perfect time for Olimar to charge a dsmash for the kill without the need to get through any spam.

Next up we got, "Don't listen to Dabuz". From what I hear, he's one of the best Olimar mains online and offline. Fino? Never heard of you.

Dsmash's up. You've explained to me with all your pretty frame data why SHAD'ing a dsmash would not work, yet you tell me how you can grab people and fsmash people offstage. You DO realize why'll you're going for all that, we can jump next to you and dsmash?

Who the hell are YOU to tell a Toon Link main that grab release to dsmash and zair to dsmash won't work? I've DONE it. Zair, wait for their landing and dsmash at the right time. Grab, release, wait for the spotdodge, charge a dsmash and hit. We like to call them minegamez son. Good luck teching that consistently. Your friend was shocked that you did it once. That's saying something.

The video I posted was to show simple techniques vs Olimar, where I first saw them. It doesn't matter how old it was if I was talking about specific parts of the vid.

Finally, you're basing all of this matchup talk from playing MJG? You're kidding me right? No offense to MJG, but there are better Toon Links and everything I've said was based off playing MANY Olimars.

I was wrong about the range of an usmash...but to be honest, just because you can copy and paste frame data doesn't mean you know much about the matchup at all.

But like...you're good at reading! :nerd: :bigthumbu

Oh no...i see some trouble in the future

 

[Hyro]

Oh no...i see some trouble in the future

LOL, I'm ready

*puts up deku shield*

 

[Power of Slash]

Ok so before we start delving into mindgames, and tips and all this.

WITHOUT anything that is susceptible to player skill

I'd just love to get this matchup ratio out of the way, and then find ways to help me deal with the matchup(which is being done pretty well)

/trying best to produce some progress and contribute at least something.

 

[MJG]

Ok so before we start delving into mindgames, and tips and all this.

WITHOUT anything that is susceptible to player skill

I'd just love to get this matchup ratio out of the way, and then find ways to help me deal with the matchup(which is being done pretty well)

/trying best to produce some progress and contribute at least something.

Lol id contribute some more but i feel almost useless after hyros post >.<

 

[TheJerm]

I say this is an even match up. We can both camp eachother pretty hard. And while it may be harder for use to get a direct smash kill. We can gimp them by chasing them and using our great recovery to our advantage. And there's the downsmash gimp. But using our upsmash or other smash attacks to kill is pretty difficult. I still suck at this match up, but I'm learning it =]

 

[Hyro]

Ok so before we start delving into mindgames, and tips and all this.

WITHOUT anything that is susceptible to player skill

I'd just love to get this matchup ratio out of the way, and then find ways to help me deal with the matchup(which is being done pretty well)

/trying best to produce some progress and contribute at least something.

Well not to many people agree lol

Me - 60-40 TL
Near - 60-40 Oli
Dabuz- 65-35 TL
Sasuke - 55-45 Oli
PoS - 55-45 Oli
Bengal - 50-50
Fino - 50-50 or 55-45 Oli
MJG - 50-50 or 55-45 TL
Jerm - 50-50
Twink - 65-55 Oli (lolwut)

And mjg, you can contribute, you're not bad at all I was just saying you can't base an opinion from constantly playing the same person

 

[Fino]

Fino, are you walking about the same thing? >_<
I know the purples give pressure and help keep TL away, but I mean chaining hits with them. Like:
purple pikmin throw -> run up -> purple pikmin throw -> run up -> purple pikmin throw ect. ect.
Like that. is that possible to get out of? @_@

It's no a true combo by far... but it could happen. Usually it build off of you getting dazed by the purple pikmin. After so many pikmin being thrown at you the fact that one has dealt knockback is kind of a shock, and the initial reaction is to regain stage control and spacing, which usually involves some sort of punishable movement from a purple pikmin toss. It's really all about reaction to any other hit. Your goal should be to get away and try to prevent more hits. When this happens, you don't want to be stationary, moving towards olimar, or jumping... you should dash away from olimar and reset.

My mistake for saying Olimar uses grab releases. Let me rephrase that. GOOD Olimar mains use grab releases. Why the **** WOULDN'T they. Everyone is scared of Olimar's grab, initial reactions makes you spot dodge upon getting grab released. Perfect time for Olimar to charge a dsmash for the kill without the need to get through any spam.

Next up we got, "Don't listen to Dabuz". From what I hear, he's one of the best Olimar mains online and offline. Fino? Never heard of you.

Dsmash's up. You've explained to me with all your pretty frame data why SHAD'ing a dsmash would not work, yet you tell me how you can grab people and fsmash people offstage. You DO realize why'll you're going for all that, we can jump next to you and dsmash?

Who the hell are YOU to tell a Toon Link main that grab release to dsmash and zair to dsmash won't work? I've DONE it. Zair, wait for their landing and dsmash at the right time. Grab, release, wait for the spotdodge, charge a dsmash and hit. We like to call them minegamez son. Good luck teching that consistently. Your friend was shocked that you did it once. That's saying something.

The video I posted was to show simple techniques vs Olimar, where I first saw them. It doesn't matter how old it was if I was talking about specific parts of the vid.

Finally, you're basing all of this matchup talk from playing MJG? You're kidding me right? No offense to MJG, but there are better Toon Links and everything I've said was based off playing MANY Olimars.

I was wrong about the range of an usmash...but to be honest, just because you can copy and paste frame data doesn't mean you know much about the matchup at all.

But like...you're good at reading! :nerd: :bigthumbu

I debated of whether or not to reply to this, as much of it is trolling / arguing with a wall, but I'll make my attempt anyways.

Let me start off by telling you that no GOOD olimar would grab release. What would be the incentive when a grab at zero is a 0-50 combo on most characters, when at midperent it's still a decent 30-40% juggle, and at high percents it's a kill move... Why On Earth would you grab release... considering most of olimar's options are too slow to punish any smart player?

As for SHAD'ing to dsmash... I would love to see a vid of this done. Honestly I would. Olimar doesn't have much cool down lag on his moves... which you must be assuming for this to work. As soon as you make a motion to land next to olimar he is going to downsmash... and even a SHAD buffered dsmash wouldn't be fast enough. Olimar dsmash is onl one frame slower than tlinks.

Perhaps that jab cancelled dsmash... but from the time you're popped up in the air (olimar is very floaty) to the time you land for a dsmash... olimar has many options to escape or punish.

I'm telling your that grab release to dsmash and zair to dsmash won't work from knowing the spacing on the moves and how you'd have to space them and not get punished otherwise. If you don't PERFECTLY space zair, you will eat an fsmash. Also... have you tried grab release to dsmash on an olimar? Again.. this is something I would like to see a vid on.

As for downsmash working... ask MJG. Ever since I learned to tech it (several weeks ago) he hasn't landed a single one on me (I've successfully teched the 4 times I've slipped up and been hit by it under 25). Note that we play each other frequently.

Also, I didn't copy paste frame data... TL's frame data was readily available on your forums, which I took, and I have all the frames on olimar's moves down. You can see my 47 page guide on olimar in the olimar forums if you'd like to know more.

Also, dabuz isn't that good imo. He's good on wifi because that's all he plays. As for real tournaments ask any other olimar and my name pops up. Blackwaltz and andy g put me on their personal top 5 list for olimars (I'm sure you heard of those two olimars.... if you haven't you really are a scroob), which dabuz or zori didn't even come up.

Why do you hear of dabuz? Cause he won a wifi ladder (which the majority good people don't participate in) against ally (who had zero to no oli exp at the time).

I like how, just because you're ignorant and have never heard of someone, that automatically discredits everything they say.


~Fino

 

[Power of Slash]

Contribute anyways mjg, lols. my Tinks terribad, but I'll try and contribute something anyways =o Something's better than nothing

imo, 55:45 Olimar. In the situation most prevalent which is Oli camping, and TL being aggro like.

Oli kinda kills our camping game if the oli's camping correctly, but if the Oli tries to go aggro TL rips him a new one. Then we sorta... clash at this mid-road, and I only give Oli the slight advantage now because, despite what others may think, but I believe Oli kills us tons easier than we kill them, and then we're stuck in the situation where we need to move in for the kill and Oli has the tools to not let us at all.

 

[MJG]

It's no a true combo by far... but it could happen. Usually it build off of you getting dazed by the purple pikmin. After so many pikmin being thrown at you the fact that one has dealt knockback is kind of a shock, and the initial reaction is to regain stage control and spacing, which usually involves some sort of punishable movement from a purple pikmin toss. It's really all about reaction to any other hit. Your goal should be to get away and try to prevent more hits. When this happens, you don't want to be stationary, moving towards olimar, or jumping... you should dash away from olimar and reset.



I debated of whether or not to reply to this, as much of it is trolling / arguing with a wall, but I'll make my attempt anyways.

Let me start off by telling you that no GOOD olimar would grab release. What would be the incentive when a grab at zero is a 0-50 combo on most characters, when at midperent it's still a decent 30-40% juggle, and at high percents it's a kill move... Why On Earth would you grab release... considering most of olimar's options are too slow to punish any smart player?

As for SHAD'ing to dsmash... I would love to see a vid of this done. Honestly I would. Olimar doesn't have much cool down lag on his moves... which you must be assuming for this to work. As soon as you make a motion to land next to olimar he is going to downsmash... and even a SHAD buffered dsmash wouldn't be fast enough. Olimar dsmash is onl one frame slower than tlinks.

Perhaps that jab cancelled dsmash... but from the time you're popped up in the air (olimar is very floaty) to the time you land for a dsmash... olimar has many options to escape or punish.

I'm telling your that grab release to dsmash and zair to dsmash won't work from knowing the spacing on the moves and how you'd have to space them and not get punished otherwise. If you don't PERFECTLY space zair, you will eat an fsmash. Also... have you tried grab release to dsmash on an olimar? Again.. this is something I would like to see a vid on.

As for downsmash working... ask MJG. Ever since I learned to tech it (several weeks ago) he hasn't landed a single one on me (I've successfully teched the 4 times I've slipped up and been hit by it under 25). Note that we play each other frequently.

Also, I didn't copy paste frame data... TL's frame data was readily available on your forums, which I took, and I have all the frames on olimar's moves down. You can see my 47 page guide on olimar in the olimar forums if you'd like to know more.

Also, dabuz isn't that good imo. He's good on wifi because that's all he plays. As for real tournaments ask any other olimar and my name pops up. Blackwaltz and andy g put me on their personal top 5 list for olimars (I'm sure you heard of those two olimars.... if you haven't you really are a scroob), which dabuz or zori didn't even come up.

Why do you hear of dabuz? Cause he won a wifi ladder (which the majority good people don't participate in) against ally (who had zero to no oli exp at the time).

I like how, just because you're ignorant and have never heard of someone, that automatically discredits everything they say.


~Fino

as for that down smash trick...we would have to give up our spacing...and i dont see many toons doing zair to down smash to be honest...but meh whatever

Down smash is something good olimars will look at and pick up on eventually as the game progresses on...we will be lucky to land it on any olimars unless they are inexperienced in the match up

 

[TheJerm]

Teching the downsmash gimp? Really? Not one person has ever teched it against me. It doesnt even seem techable. lol

 

[MJG]

Teching the downsmash gimp? Really? Not one person has ever teched it against me. It doesnt even seem techable. lol

I didnt think it was possible actually.

He posted the tourney vid where he Tech'd it against me

 

[NearZzz]

Yeah you can tech it, i've had it done to me, and done it myself before.
I actually forgot to post about it, but according to Kirinblaze, you can DI the dsmash and not get hit by the second hit as well.

 

[Fino]

Teching the downsmash gimp? Really? Not one person has ever teched it against me. It doesnt even seem techable. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wM208AHGIo

About 3:25... there was an annotation to prove my success..... after dieing so many times in friendlies I sat down for about an hour or so and figured a way not to die from it <.<
lol


~Fino

 

[TheJerm]

It doesnt seem like you teched it. Looked like you got hit by both hits. But w/e, this match up will soon be in TL's favor for me.

 

[Hyro]

Pro Olimars I've Heard of:

Blackwaltz
Weruop
AndyG
Dabuz

Here's what we call offline tourney results:

Split! 1) Anti ($216) - MK, Snake, DDD - NY, LI - JUICE
Split! 1) Snakeee ($216) - ZSS, Zelda/Shiek - NY - JUICE
3) NinjaLink ($47) - R.O.B., Pit, Lucario, Samus?? (Tell me who you used) - NY - DA
4) Dabuz - Olimar - NY, LI - MONSTARS
5) Jash - Toon Link - NY - ?
5) ADHD - Diddy - NJ - JUICE
7) Atomsk - DDD, Luigi, Wolf - NJ - ENEMY CONTROLLER
7) Inui - MK, Snake, Ike (Snakeee did lose 1 game in Tourny to Inuis IKE!!!!) LOL - NJ - EC
9) Malcolm - Wario (He Says EFFF SONIC HE IS TOOO GOOD) - NJ - DA
9) MikeG - Game&Watch, Wario NY, LI - MONSTARS
9) Ksizzle - MK, Ice Climbers?? - NJ - JUICE
9) Diem - SuperKnight - NJ - JUICE
13) Minty - Marth, Snake - NY, LI - MONSTARS
13) Problem - Snake - NY,LI - MONSTARS
13) Izumi - MK, Toon Link - NJ - ENEMY CONTROLLER
13) Doom - MK, DDD, G&W - NJ - JUICE
17) Will - DK, Game&Watch - NY, LI - MONSTARS
17) Wes - Sonic - NY - DEADLY ALLIANCE
17) Zucco - Lucario, Fox? - NJ - JUICE
17) Allied - Kirby? - NY
17) Melvin (D1) - MK, Falco - NY - DA
17) Jaden (Vanz) - ZSS, DDD, Wario? - NY
17) C4?! - Falco, Luigi - NY, LI - MONSTARS
17) Cheez - MK, Ice Climbers - NY
25) Viva - Ness, Lucas - NY, LI
25) Cyber - Sonic - NY, LI
25) Alex Strife - Game&Watch - NY - ENEMY CONTROLLER
25) MrBlaze - Diddy - NY,LI
25) John - Wolf - NY,LI
25) FrostBite -? -?
25) KnightMare - MK - NY,LI - MONSTARS
25) Branden -? -?
33) ShadowLink84 - Sonic -?
33) Man -? -?
33) Rhyme - Samus - NJ - JUICE
33) Vanek - DDD, Snake - NY, LI
33) Ninja EDD - Diddy - NJ - JUICE
33) Rukkiko -? -?
33) KirinBlaze - Mario, Link - NY,LI
33) AG -? -NY
33) Marko -? -?
33) CITH - Sonic -NY
33) CJT - R.O.B. - NY,LI
33) M4GE - Link, Marth -?
33) Xivk - Luigi, Lucario - NY
33) Jason -? -?
33) Hippiedude - Luigi - NY

That says something.

I haven't been flaming, you just came off as an *******. "Disregard everything everyone says, I'm right because I tech dsmashes and doesn't afraid of anything"

Well, you seem like you want vids, I'll handle that soon enough. Check this thread in the future.

And jerm, I thought the SAME thing. LOL the point of the move is that only one part hits. That's when it throws you. Second hit sends you up.

 

[Fino]

It doesnt seem like you teched it. Looked like you got hit by both hits. But w/e, this match up will soon be in TL's favor for me.

It's debatable... there have been times where I clearly tech it... though that's not one of them... just the only vid I have of my surviving it.

Jerm agrees with my match-up numbers... and that's all I needed to hear =]


~Fino

 

[MJG]

Pro Olimars I've Heard of:

Blackwaltz
Weruop
AndyG
Dabuz

Here's what we call offline tourney results:

Split! 1) Anti ($216) - MK, Snake, DDD - NY, LI - JUICE
Split! 1) Snakeee ($216) - ZSS, Zelda/Shiek - NY - JUICE
3) NinjaLink ($47) - R.O.B., Pit, Lucario, Samus?? (Tell me who you used) - NY - DA
4) Dabuz - Olimar - NY, LI - MONSTARS
5) Jash - Toon Link - NY - ?
5) ADHD - Diddy - NJ - JUICE
7) Atomsk - DDD, Luigi, Wolf - NJ - ENEMY CONTROLLER
7) Inui - MK, Snake, Ike (Snakeee did lose 1 game in Tourny to Inuis IKE!!!!) LOL - NJ - EC
9) Malcolm - Wario (He Says EFFF SONIC HE IS TOOO GOOD) - NJ - DA
9) MikeG - Game&Watch, Wario NY, LI - MONSTARS
9) Ksizzle - MK, Ice Climbers?? - NJ - JUICE
9) Diem - SuperKnight - NJ - JUICE
13) Minty - Marth, Snake - NY, LI - MONSTARS
13) Problem - Snake - NY,LI - MONSTARS
13) Izumi - MK, Toon Link - NJ - ENEMY CONTROLLER
13) Doom - MK, DDD, G&W - NJ - JUICE
17) Will - DK, Game&Watch - NY, LI - MONSTARS
17) Wes - Sonic - NY - DEADLY ALLIANCE
17) Zucco - Lucario, Fox? - NJ - JUICE
17) Allied - Kirby? - NY
17) Melvin (D1) - MK, Falco - NY - DA
17) Jaden (Vanz) - ZSS, DDD, Wario? - NY
17) C4?! - Falco, Luigi - NY, LI - MONSTARS
17) Cheez - MK, Ice Climbers - NY
25) Viva - Ness, Lucas - NY, LI
25) Cyber - Sonic - NY, LI
25) Alex Strife - Game&Watch - NY - ENEMY CONTROLLER
25) MrBlaze - Diddy - NY,LI
25) John - Wolf - NY,LI
25) FrostBite -? -?
25) KnightMare - MK - NY,LI - MONSTARS
25) Branden -? -?
33) ShadowLink84 - Sonic -?
33) Man -? -?
33) Rhyme - Samus - NJ - JUICE
33) Vanek - DDD, Snake - NY, LI
33) Ninja EDD - Diddy - NJ - JUICE
33) Rukkiko -? -?
33) KirinBlaze - Mario, Link - NY,LI
33) AG -? -NY
33) Marko -? -?
33) CITH - Sonic -NY
33) CJT - R.O.B. - NY,LI
33) M4GE - Link, Marth -?
33) Xivk - Luigi, Lucario - NY
33) Jason -? -?
33) Hippiedude - Luigi - NY

That says something.

I haven't been flaming, you just came off as an *******. dDisregard everything everyone says, I'm right because I tech dsmashes and doesn't afraid of anything"

Well, you seem like you want vids, I'll handle that soon enough. Check this thread in the future.

And jerm, I thought the SAME thing. LOL the point of the move is that only one part hits. That's when it throws you. Second hit sends you up.

Hmm...you both (everyone as well) need to remember that it is JUST A GAME.

Seriously...i laughed out loud when i saw this post...you guys are getting out of hand now...Dont let it get under your skin. You both have very different opinions on the match up. Lets just leave it at that...

Whats thes biggest tourney you have been to hyro? Im just curious now.

Jash is a beast <3

 

[Fino]

Pro Olimars I've Heard of:

Blackwaltz
Weruop
AndyG
Dabuz

Two of your 4 prolimars you've heard of put me in their top five list in the nation (for olimar). One of them (weruop) said I'm flat out better than him in IRL play. We don't really rank ourselves in a 1-2-3 order, we have a mutual respect for each other and base people in a general skill area... never do we say this one person is better than that other person unless it's someone admitting that they aren't as good as someone else.
Just for name throwing around

Also, I didn't disreguard what everyone said... I made some minor adjustments and help to questions raised and comments made. You can't have a match-up discussion with ill-informed members and bias members... which is why people often ask that mains from other forums come in and discuss with them.
Also note that I am very afraid of tlink, which is why I said I lean towards a 50-50.


~Fino

 

[Sosuke]

Be nicer to each other plz. We're just talking match ups. haha =)

 

[MJG]

I think this was stated before but all of the olimars out there have different play styles...
IMO, i think this match up is about momentum (i probably sound dumb, so i have late night johns :D)

 

[Hyro]

Hmm...you both (everyone as well) need to remember that it is JUST A GAME.

Seriously...i laughed out loud when i saw this post...you guys are getting out of hand now...Dont let it get under your skin. You both have very different opinions on the match up. Lets just leave it at that...

Whats thes biggest tourney you have been to hyro? Im just curious now.

Jash is a beast <3

Yeah, jash is very good. My biggest tourney was WHobo with 149 ppl, and second biggest was LasT smash with 81 ppl

Two of your 4 prolimars you've heard of put me in their top five list in the nation (for olimar). One of them (weruop) said I'm flat out better than him in IRL play. We don't really rank ourselves in a 1-2-3 order, we have a mutual respect for each other and base people in a general skill area... never do we say this one person is better than that other person unless it's someone admitting that they aren't as good as someone else.
Just for name throwing around

Also, I didn't disreguard what everyone said... I made some minor adjustments and help to questions raised and comments made. You can't have a match-up discussion with ill-informed members and bias members... which is why people often ask that mains from other foru ms come in and discuss with them.
Also note that I am very afraid of tlink, which is why I said I lean towards a 50-50.


~Fino

Alright, we best friends now, I love you come over this saturday

I'll agree with 50-50 if both players know the matchup.

 

[Fino]

Alright, we best friends now, I love you come over this saturday

I'll agree with 50-50 if both players know the matchup.

@.@ I jsut spot dodged and you're charging a dsmash

mindgames...... ._. **** lol

I think we're all ****ing tired... and it's time to call it a night lol
<3


~Fino

 

[Hyro]

@.@ I jsut spot dodged and you're charging a dsmash

mindgames...... ._. **** lol

I think we're all ****ing tired... and it's time to call it a night lol
<3


~Fino

Speaking of spot dodging...lol

Here's a replay I saved because of that. It should also help show some strategies against Oli too.

I forgot to mention it...but I do a lot of full hop nair to zair in this matchup.

I also misspaced a lotta nair to arrows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOE8vdGjLsU

 

[DanGR]

You guys reviewed the Oli matchup 2 months ago. Have the TL boards made any huge advancements that I should know about?

I'm not sure what to think about the TL-Oli matchup. Oli outcamps TL, so he's can't spam too much, but he's not necessarily forced to approach very quickly either...

SHnairs do well to get pikmin off and when you, as the TL player, mix up between them, SHADded zairs, nair->arrow cancels, SHboomerang when he's not throwing pikmin, and taking out and throwing bombs from above, TL actually does better than most characters at dealing with Olimar's spacing/camping game. Characters have to play against Olimar differently than they're used to- same goes for TL. You've got to have meticulous spacing and be very patient, but at the same time don't give Olimar too much room. Stay at about midrange to long range and weave in and out, watching out for mainly grabs and spaced fsmashes, and throw your projectiles when you think the Oli has transitioned from his camp game to his spacing game. That's the way to go.

The reason I think the matchup is probably more than 60-40 (more around 65-35) in Oli's favor is because of the shear killing percent difference. Up until it's time to kill, they're pretty close with a slight advantage to Oli. Both have wonderful spacing games, and especially in this matchup it's a battle of who can space better. Olimar players try to get early kills and TLs try and get the early gimp- though it doesn't happen very often against Oli's that can whistle well. (TL is pretty floaty and it's not difficult to time whistles against him)

Thoughts?

^This still applies. I agree with everything PhantomX has said so far.

 

[Zori]

wow im really getting flamed for a vid months ago... this is unbelievable

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

OMG THIS MATCHUP IS SO DIFFICULT FOR ME!!!!! I have not beaten my cousin's Olimar ONCE since yesterday, out of like 50 matches! I tried facing a level 9 Olimar and nearly lost, 1 stock left at 187 percent, but won't luckily, by edgeguarding. Let's just say, this is one of the most annoying match-ups ever. Hate it. 65 - 35 Olimar.

 

[TLMSheikant]

...I stopped reading where u said u almost lost to a cpu >_>. Anyways, imo its 65-35 if the TL plays the usual game and cant adapt or doesnt know the matchup. But against a good TL that can adapt, play the matchup correctly, its 55-45 olimar. This is not a final ratio tho, just my opinion.

 

[Sosuke]

I don't think TL has worse then a 60-40 matchup with any character in the game.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Well I just saw HyRo's video and I can say that I played COMPLETELY different. Wow. All I can say is I hate this matchup with a passion. 60 - 40 Olimar.

 

[WindMajor]

Well not to many people agree lol

Me - 60-40 TL
Near - 60-40 Oli
Dabuz- 65-35 TL
Sasuke - 55-45 Oli
PoS - 55-45 Oli
Bengal - 50-50
Fino - 50-50 or 55-45 Oli
MJG - 50-50 or 55-45 TL
Jerm - 50-50
Twink - 65-55 Oli (lolwut)

And mjg, you can contribute, you're not bad at all I was just saying you can't base an opinion from constantly playing the same person

Did I seriously write 65:55?! Whoa... That's weird. I don't even remember getting on the Smashboards yesterday xD.

Whoops... i guess.

 

[TLMSheikant]

^^^^^^...Illegal substances are BADDD imo lol.

 

[WindMajor]

Well I was 100% clean, for sure, but I won't get into detail. Off topic conversations are off topic. ^_^

I have no experience with this match-up, so I won't contribute much.

 

[NeoCrono]

wow im really getting flamed for a vid months ago... this is unbelievable

Your not, we know the video is old and it was just to show what you could do against an Olimar. The only kinda Olimar experience I have was at a tournament in December..... I ended up having to go snake. I dont think its that bad of a match-up, i just dont like having to break-up my flow to play Olimar......
I think its 65-35 Oli

p.s
I <3 you Zori

 

[Fino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOE8vdGjLsU

O...M...G...

I don't know who that olimar was... but call him a scrub for me next time you play him XD.

I was watching the match at first and I'm like... oooookay, your typical really slow bad camping olimar.... but I kept watching... up until 1:15 when I saw the whistle spam. Then I gave up. Lol.
You did well keeping him on the outs though, he just didn't know how to do anything else besides run away and sideb =-/

I'll play you online sometime. Online is meh, online... but I'll get a variety I guess.


~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

fino: wtf, don't say all olis have mutual respect for eachother then call me horrible, cause just about everyone says either me or blackwaltz is the best oli that plays offline

and i will just stop talking about this matchup because ive come to the realization that i am horrible in this matchup


also, purples aren't a reliable strategy for olimar except on frigate, and neither is dsmash for toonlink

 

[Fino]

fino: wtf, don't say all olis have mutual respect for eachother then call me horrible, cause just about everyone says either me or blackwaltz is the best oli that plays offline

I was under the impression that it was blackwaltz and pstar.

purples aren't a reliable strategy for olimar except on frigate, and neither is dsmash for toonlink

This is why I said don't listen to dabuz....

~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

I was under the impression that it was blackwaltz and pstar.


This is why I said don't listen to dabuz....

~Fino

now that ive started going to tourneys here and there, not really, most people say that im about as good as blackwaltz, maybe a little better or worse, but normally its agreed that I>PS

and since fino thinks that for some reason i have no idea how to play the matchup i won't post anymore regarding it