Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #2: Olimar

[TLMSheikant]

^Its not closed O_O. It is open for discussion of the matchup still. The ratio is decided but you can still talk about the matchup if you want.

 

[MJG]

^Its not closed O_O. It is open for discussion of the matchup still. The ratio is decided but you can still talk about the matchup if you want.

Oh my bad then. I just thought that it was done since the thread discussion throttled down

 

[Jash]

I believe it is 50/50 IMO. If you play a really smart Olimar, it can be pretty dam tough, if not you can really kill and read him pretty easily.

 

[Dabuz]

I believe it is 50/50 IMO. If you play a really smart Olimar, it can be pretty dam tough, if not you can really kill and read him pretty easily.

i still will say 65-35 if the toon link knows what exactly to do >_>

 

[Weruop]

50 50 imo
i went almost perfectly even with Chip in friendlies at erows and at Genesis

 

[fallenangemon0]

I'd cast my vote for 55-45 in Toon Link's favor.

Toon Link's Nair OOS, and Zair to Hyphen are good but it's Tink's offstage game that gives him the edge.

I've beaten error13's Olimar by planking the ENTIRE match. Olimar can't risk going off stage, and if he does, Bair and Nair will make short work of his terrible recovery. All Olimar can really to is try to throw pikmin at you, which you can easily dodge, OR spam grab and hope that he somehow manages to pluck you from the ledge (which you should also be able to dodge consistantly).

BTW I really was on the edge for the whole match and I only had like 39 ledge grabs.

 

[Jash]

i still will say 65-35 if the toon link knows what exactly to do >_>

Whaaaaa? That is crazy over percentage abuse. That is definitely YOUR opinion but definitely not true. I say it is an even matchup, but what do I know right?

 

[TheJerm]

I used hyro's technique. The nairing stuff. And it REALLY works. I 2-0'd an olimar I lost to last time I played. But he wasnt camping hard, so ima say its even now. Instead of his favor.

 

[Weruop]

Oh my bad then. I just thought that it was done since the thread discussion throttled down

get r***d jk

 

[Chip.]

50-50

I completely agree with Weruop on this match-up. All our matches are always extremely close and we play our characters at the highest level of play. Both characters have advantages and disadvantages against each other. Olimar can harass Toon Link by out camping him (by a slight margin) and has much better KO power with his grabs and smashes. His smashes (particularly Usmash) are almost unpunishable if spaced perfectly. Toon Link out spaces Olimar with a lot of his attacks like Zair and Nair and Olimar gets tortured in the air with Bair because you can combo him so well and read his ADs easy. I also find him easy to limit his options off-stage and edgeguard.

 

[Dabuz]

ive learned not to be stupid in this matchup and i do agree its 50-50, i just had to mix up my game to figure it out

 

[Weruop]

xD there ya go dabuz

 

[BKrkr]

I'll give this 55/45 in TL's favor only because of Olimar's gimpability. Of course a good Oli has worked on getting back on with an edge hogging opponent, but there's so much you can do especially if the Toon is edge dropping -> zairing back on.

 

[Dabuz]

except for dsmash(which toon link really needs to be crafty with to hit) all of toon links attack that send oli offstage send him up high enough where he can land directly on stage with good DI

 

[Weruop]

bkrkr i disagree a lot. chip gimped me HARDLY EVER at our tourneyt this weekend
this matchup isnt in toonlinks favor at all. 50 50 MAYBE 55 45

i agree with dabuzs post, which is one of the reasons i was almost never gimped

 

[MJG]

except for dsmash(which toon link really needs to be crafty with to hit) all of toon links attack that send oli offstage send him up high enough where he can land directly on stage with good DI

Lol yea...when you see toonlink campin out by the ledge and you are under 25%, its a big NO NO to go over and attempt to do anything to him ^_^

 

[Dabuz]

Lol yea...when you see toonlink campin out by the ledge and you are under 25%, its a big NO NO to go over and attempt to do anything to him ^_^

i know...i just got impatient and thought your missed grab had more lag after wards then it really does...>_>

 

[Weruop]

xD

diez char

 

[Kingdom Come]

Yea, this is without a doubt the hardest matchup for as a TL. Either this one or Marth.

 

[TLMSheikant]

It isnt TL's hardest matchup. That's mk. :/

 

[MJG]

It isnt TL's hardest matchup. That's mk. :/

Yes this ^^

Then IMO, i would believe its Marth.

For this match up, Aggro toonlink can take care of the job. It involves a lot of momentum for both characters >.>. Something that would help toonlinks is to get olimar into the air because his options will be limited. This will allow us to rack up some damage at least.

@Dabuz: Im surprised that i was even able to bait you with a missed grab XD.

 

[Lobos]

I still say this is in olimar's favor.....or even but what do I know >_>

 

[WindMajor]

I still don't understand why Hyro's plan works, but it just does. It's harder against spammy Olimars, but his idea lets us TLs rack up enough damage to push Oli off the stage easily, and that's where it's TL's turn to shine.

 

[Dabuz]

Yes this ^^

Then IMO, i would believe its Marth.

For this match up, Aggro toonlink can take care of the job. It involves a lot of momentum for both characters >.>. Something that would help toonlinks is to get olimar into the air because his options will be limited. This will allow us to rack up some damage at least.

@Dabuz: Im surprised that i was even able to bait you with a missed grab XD.

exactly, people who think oli has firm advantage have never to go aggressive, and yes, getting oli in air= free damage...im happy someone has finally realized that getting olimar into the air doesn't mean free stock

MJG, ive never seen that plan before, but now that i have i won't be tricked anymore...ever >_>

 

[Weruop]

MK isnt toonlinks worst matchup. >.>
if ur just a little in the air i agree about how its easy tot ake damage, but when ur up to a certain height, i find it somewhat safe. atleast vs chip lol

 

[MJG]

exactly, people who think oli has firm advantage have never to go aggressive, and yes, getting oli in air= free damage...im happy someone has finally realized that getting olimar into the air doesn't mean free stock

MJG, ive never seen that plan before, but now that i have i won't be tricked anymore...ever >_>

LOL...it was actually kind of dumb of me to attempt but it was just a spurr of the moment thing since i needed a comeback.

A lot of this match up is stage dependant as well.

We all know that one of our best stages against Oli is frigate (unless your playing dabuz @.@) or rainbow cruise as a close second, which fino favors (All of the olimars have a stage that counters them that they like to play on XD)

Any stage that allows olimar to get a quick early kill (Halberd) or which allows the olimar play room to camp (some of our best stages >.>) becomes an obvious issue for us toonlink players.

This is still one of the most frustrating matches

 

[Sosuke]

MK is TL's worst matchup.

 

[Weruop]

is that why chip beats sean but loses to my olimar? lol

 

[Chip.]

MK is Toon Link's hardest matchup

Weruop, I figured out that the way you were able to beat me was because you were better at punishing me than I was at punishing you.

I beat good MKs because I know what to do in the matchup. I don't know jack what to do vs Olimar.

I'm starting to figure out the match-up thanks to advice Praxis gave me. Olimar's camp game is really not as impressive as I thought and that Olimar has a hard time under sheild pressure. I'm starting to see this match-up is a lot easier than I originally thought, so we'll see how things go next time we play .

 

[Weruop]

i thought u said in a thread that MK is an easy matchup for TL like a day or two ago :/
ah well i guess im just dumb lol
i noticed a few things after our matches too.
oh and ****peach mains <3
we'll see how much more you know next time we play ^^

 

[Chip.]

Lol no that was Jamn on my account lol >_>

He made the thread about me not knowing how to fight Olimar too a few days ago

What kinda things did you notice, though?

 

[Weruop]

****ing jamn lmao
dont u ever log off of ur accounts?
haha i cant tell you

 

[Chip.]

Oh I see those kinds of secretz xD

You sneaky devil you =P I'll have to beat you the ol' fashioned way I guess.

Yeah I never log off lol it bites me in the butt though

 

[Weruop]

bwahaha im quite the madman
my secrets are only for the eyes of the olimar backroom
the ol fashioned way eh? lol
and yeah, it bites u in the butt a lot lol

 

[MJG]

Olimars (and probably other characters/ people as well) will probably get super defensive (lol) when going for the kill. Maybe grabbing them and then throwing them in the air can be a good option if they are just sitting in their shield waiting for you to Up Smash because they expect it, or ANYTHING to mix it up since they will expect an Up Smash.

Lol@ chip/ weruop

 

[Do or Die]

Olimars are annoying because they can rack up damage quite quickly, especially if you're careless. Now, I'm sure verything has been said on this board, but I'll add my input on this. Both characters have problems KO'ing one another, that's one of the main problems. TL definitely rules when it comes to range or projectiles, only because his can go a farther distace, and he has multiples, although pulling out a bomb is near suicidal with Olimar. Olimar can be made defenseless, seeing as to how his pikmin can be killed, especially with levels with water. BUT, Olimar has longer ranged smashes, and generally better close up attacks, especially due to his grab. Olimar can be gimped though, quite easily, just look out for those purple ones. For this match up, I'd definitely say try and keep it at a distance, building his damage while keeping pikmin off you(Nair) Never us bombs, and really on your aerials. When going for the kill, Usmash, Uair, or gimping. 60-40 Toon Link.

 

[Dabuz]

i was planning to just edit that post slightly to make sense, but then i realized that post was fail in almost any way so i just gave up and decided to insult you on it instead

 

[Weruop]

i think chip gimped me maybe twice out of 8 matches ( not counting just simple edgehogs vs an olimar who knows how to recover well ) and got either 1 or 2 upair deaths cux i whistled a little too late. the rest were from uptilt, upsmash, nair and fair. i also think oli can camp way better especially with purples

 

[MJG]

Olimars are annoying because they can rack up damage quite quickly, especially if you're careless. Now, I'm sure verything has been said on this board, but I'll add my input on this. Both characters have problems KO'ing one another, that's one of the main problems. TL definitely rules when it comes to range or projectiles, only because his can go a farther distace, and he has multiples, although pulling out a bomb is near suicidal with Olimar. Olimar can be made defenseless, seeing as to how his pikmin can be killed, especially with levels with water. BUT, Olimar has longer ranged smashes, and generally better close up attacks, especially due to his grab. Olimar can be gimped though, quite easily, just look out for those purple ones. For this match up, I'd definitely say try and keep it at a distance, building his damage while keeping pikmin off you(Nair) Never us bombs, and really on your aerials. When going for the kill, Usmash, Uair, or gimping. 60-40 Toon Link.

Uh...First of all: Good olimar mains dont get gimped that often. Maybe in some of the wifi sites that you play on or maybe even on AiB but still they rarely get gimped.

Second: As far as killing goes, Olimar has a MUCH easier time killing than we do. Killing for toonlink is a big problem and most toonlink already know that.

And Thirdly: Yes i will agree with you, toonlinks projectiles are amazing but they aren't a game changing factor in this match up especially since olimar can out camp toonlink.

Also...purple are annoying as ****. I have learned to powershield them since i play against Finos olimar pretty much everyday offline.
Here is an old tourney vid of how annoying purples used to be and how much of a nuisance they really can be to any character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wM208AHGIo

Not to sound like i am attacking you but if you actually play a good olimar, your eyes will be opened to a WHOLE-nother perspective.

Im sure one of these olimars are willing to play you.

 

[Chip.]

bwahaha im quite the madman
my secrets are only for the eyes of the olimar backroom
the ol fashioned way eh? lol
and yeah, it bites u in the butt a lot lol

Yeah, the ol' fashioned way is basically beating them without tricksies and secretz; just flat out mindgames and hard work .


I also think this matchup is even until Olimar gets Purples. If he gets like 3 Purples or more its 55/45...


BUT, I do have good news!

I figured out that Dsmash will thrash the Purples (or any pikman for that matter) in a gimping fashion when in front of me. This is why I said Olimar's camp game isnt as good as I thought because this will really hinder his usage of purple pikman.. maybe. Praxis kinda gave me the idea .