Too much gsp decrease per loss

[Mischiiii]

I just don’t know how you could possibly make a ranking system that determines real skill. Besides that everything takes skill. If you cant catch a player that runs away on Final Destination then you are probably bad as well although i myself don’t promote hit and run strategies. It just tilt you sometimes and wasts valuable time.

I would like to see a bronze silver gold platinum..... ranking system. Thia wouldn’t really make the system better but since gsp is always rising you would have a better estimate where you stand.

 

[Urgoz]

To be exact, my problem is not characters who use projectiles. I just have a problem with morons spamming them + running away endlessly to the other side of the stage (that part is the real cancer). That's what makes me say "is this **** going anywhere ?". I mean, **** off, why a 3 stocks battle would last 6 minutes ? Play the damn game already. I just feel like most of the time, I'm playing against bots who are doing the same things over and over. And you don't improve at all because as soon you catch them, they don't even know how ****ing defend themselves.

And people can be cancer with every kind of characters, it's just that it's even more annoying with characters with projectiles. But the problem is not about the characters but the people who are just cancer.

Dude just grab a character with a reflect.

I play samus and I am not ashamed to try and put as many space as possible between me and my opponent. Samus is a projectile-heavy character, do you expect me not to take advantrage of them? or to play defensively against rush-down characters and punish them with bombs? Do you expect me, as samus, to go toe to toe with an ike, cloud, or lucine with their massive range? or against a pichu or fox with their godlike speed? or maybe a King K with his armor frames? Please man, adapt. Mind you, I do not mindessly spam projectiles with her, but I do use them extensively and you can see when people can't get past them because all they're used to is mindlessly rushing down with a top tier, flowchart, fast character from day 1 then suddendly hit a brick wall when projectiles are in the equation.

 

[Klimax]

Dude just grab a character with a reflect.

I play samus and I am not ashamed to try and put as many space as possible between me and my opponent. Samus is a projectile-heavy character, do you expect me not to take advantrage of them? or to play defensively against rush-down characters and punish them with bombs? Do you expect me, as samus, to go toe to toe with an ike, cloud, or lucine with their massive range? or against a pichu or fox with their godlike speed? or maybe a King K with his armor frames? Please man, adapt. Mind you, I do not mindessly spam projectiles with her, but I do use them extensively and you can see when people can't get past them because all they're used to is mindlessly rushing down with a top tier, flowchart, fast character from day 1 then suddendly hit a brick wall when projectiles are in the equation.

You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.

 

[saiyan.]

The fact of the matter is that the majority of the population that’s playing this game online are kids. Try sitting down and playing a couple quick plays during the weekend or after school hours and see how worse gameplay is competitively wise. Online is honestly utter **** in this game and I didn’t expect it to be any less. The best thing is to setup 1v1’s on BA mode and be done with it, have a moron who mashes the same two buttons with his forehead? Okay no problem, re-create the room and wait a minute for somebody else. Have a lagger who won’t leave? No problem refer to what I said earlier. You can also download the online switch app and trash talk these squeakers till they beg for forgiveness. I bask in this glory. Most people including myself wouldn’t even care to pay more $ monthly if it included a better online environment. Smfh

 

[IrohDW]

While I do agree that the online isn't great, its problems aren't what the complainers in this thread are saying. Campy play will occur regardless of the type of ranking system used, because It is the only strategy that new players know how to use. What many of you don't understand is that this type of "safe" play isn't safe at all. If you know what you are doing, you can maneuver around the projectiles and punish your opponent. The more predictable they are, the easier it is to beat them.

A big problem I see with people in this game is mindset. If you care too much about getting into Elite Smash, you will play too defensively, lose matches because of it, and get upset every time you lose. However, if you don't care enough, you won't be motivated to grow. I find that the key is to view the goal of getting into Elite Smash as a journey. View every loss as just another opportunity to learn something about how to defeat the type of player you are playing against. In other words, don't worry about winning the particular match you are in. Focus on the mistakes you are making in the match so that you can improve as a player. Once you improve enough, you will get into Elite Smash regardless of the problems in the ranking system.

I believe that what you really need to get into Elite Smash is a solid understanding of the games fundamentals such as: neutral, advantage state, disadvantage state, and recovery. If you understand how they apply to your character and your opponent's character, you can usually win even when facing a laggy, projectile spamming opponent. By having great fundamentals, I have been able to get many characters into Elite Smash, despite not spending much time on most of them.

I find that Quickplay is very useful in giving me experience in a lot of different matchups and against a lot of different types of players. The Battle Arena is useful for playing a more serious game against more competent opponents.

If any of you want to make it to Elite Smash and would like advice on how to improve, feel free to contact me on Discord. My id is: IrohDW#5828

 

[Oneiros5321]

I don't think the problem is tied to GSP specifically. You would have the same issue with any other ranking system.
There's no way for the game to see who's a good player and who's not. The only is based on win/lose and if people can cheese their way through GSP with shady tactics, then they would be able to do it with any other ranking system.

I do think Elite Smash is a problem though. Too many players focus their attention on that, it gives them a goal to reach and pushes them to use those shady tactics.
While I understand while Elite Smash is a thing and what was the intent behind it, I think it's just a bad idea to begin with.

 

[MG_3989]

I don't think the problem is tied to GSP specifically. You would have the same issue with any other ranking system.
There's no way for the game to see who's a good player and who's not. The only is based on win/lose and if people can cheese their way through GSP with shady tactics, then they would be able to do it with any other ranking system.

I do think Elite Smash is a problem though. Too many players focus their attention on that, it gives them a goal to reach and pushes them to use those shady tactics.
While I understand while Elite Smash is a thing and what was the intent behind it, I think it's just a bad idea to begin with.

Elite Smash should be something available to everyone to play with more standard and tournament rulesets and have a separate ranking system than quickplay. I know putting an incentive for winning is nice but it means absolutely nothing

 

[saiyan.]

While I do agree that the online isn't great, its problems aren't what the complainers in this thread are saying. Campy play will occur regardless of the type of ranking system used, because It is the only strategy that new players know how to use. What many of you don't understand is that this type of "safe" play isn't safe at all. If you know what you are doing, you can maneuver around the projectiles and punish your opponent. The more predictable they are, the easier it is to beat them.

A big problem I see with people in this game is mindset. If you care too much about getting into Elite Smash, you will play too defensively, lose matches because of it, and get upset every time you lose. However, if you don't care enough, you won't be motivated to grow. I find that the key is to view the goal of getting into Elite Smash as a journey. View every loss as just another opportunity to learn something about how to defeat the type of player you are playing against. In other words, don't worry about winning the particular match you are in. Focus on the mistakes you are making in the match so that you can improve as a player. Once you improve enough, you will get into Elite Smash regardless of the problems in the ranking system.

I believe that what you really need to get into Elite Smash is a solid understanding of the games fundamentals such as: neutral, advantage state, disadvantage state, and recovery. If you understand how they apply to your character and your opponent's character, you can usually win even when facing a laggy, projectile spamming opponent. By having great fundamentals, I have been able to get many characters into Elite Smash, despite not spending much time on most of them.

I find that Quickplay is very useful in giving me experience in a lot of different matchups and against a lot of different types of players. The Battle Arena is useful for playing a more serious game against more competent opponents.

If any of you want to make it to Elite Smash and would like advice on how to improve, feel free to contact me on Discord. My id is: IrohDW#5828

I agree with everything you’ve stated except the part about what you need to be able to get into ES currently in this game. You don’t need any fundamentals in this game to reach it that’s why the majority of the people in this thread are complaining about spammers. I don’t know how many matches I play daily in ES where the guy just sits and spams the same 3 moves on villager and that’s why theirs no point in trying to reach it or playing it. You don’t learn anything from playing against them it’s a waste of time that won’t ever transfer over to local. If you don’t have friends that play then BA is the best thing. The incentive is trash in online, GSP is dumb.

 

[Klimax]

I'm already in ES, I didn't need anything, I even reached it with Little Mac, people still suck balls. As I said, after hours of playing in Elite Smash, I only met one good player, the rest was just a bunch of level 10 CPU.

The online is trash, now I just play arena with people that I know.

 

[Oneiros5321]

Elite Smash should be something available to everyone to play with more standard and tournament rulesets and have a separate ranking system than quickplay. I know putting an incentive for winning is nice but it means absolutely nothing

Well, competitive and casual should have a separate ranking system to begin with. If they were to limit that to Elite Smash, that would mean that if a casual player reach Elite Smash, the game would make him play competitive all of a sudden. It wouldn't be fair.

 

[MG_3989]

Well, competitive and casual should have a separate ranking system to begin with. If they were to limit that to Elite Smash, that would mean that if a casual player reach Elite Smash, the game would make him play competitive all of a sudden. It wouldn't be fair.

Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing

 

[Oneiros5321]

Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing

Ah I misunderstood. Then yes, I totally agree.

 

[DCavalier]

Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing

This, For Glory and For Fun should make a return and it should have Tournament ruleset by default on For Glory alongside GSP ranking and Elite Status, for the very best.

What I actually find lame of my opponents is that they sometimes go for the Cheese ruleset 2 Stock, 3 min.
Whenever I see that ruleset I know that I will have to take the first stock cause if my opponent gets it, it will keep running away until a timeout happens.
And the saddest thing is that now that I'm at 3.75 million, it's a ruleset that I've been seeing more often like 1/4 of my matches have that ruleset.

 

[ToniestTony]

You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.

It might depend on who you main, but these games shouldn't last an eternity, if you know they're going to spam and rush to the other side, there are plenty of ways to avoid taking damage from obvious spam and even more ways to punish someone trying to rush to the other side of the stage. And if they keep doing this you can go for hard reads and it shouldn't last too long. Maybe in the first 2 weeks there were more spammers in elite, but so far I've only encountered around 3-4 people like you described in elite in more than 100 games. The other "spammers" used various tricks to catch me off guard and those ones didn't just spam 2 moves.

 

[saiyan.]

This, For Glory and For Fun should make a return and it should have Tournament ruleset by default on For Glory alongside GSP ranking and Elite Status, for the very best.

What I actually find lame of my opponents is that they sometimes go for the Cheese ruleset 2 Stock, 3 min.
Whenever I see that ruleset I know that I will have to take the first stock cause if my opponent gets it, it will keep running away until a timeout happens.
And the saddest thing is that now that I'm at 3.75 million, it's a ruleset that I've been seeing more often like 1/4 of my matches have that ruleset.

I’ve had this happen too many times and I honestly just suicide to save time.

 

[DCavalier]

I’ve had this happen too many times and I honestly just suicide to save time.

I try make them hate themselves for choosing that style of lame gameplan.
If I take the first stock, I start annoying them with Pellets while running away to show them I can play that way too and be way more annoying.
It's funny when you break them and they actually SD because of it, still triggers me whenever I play against them but hopefully being cheesed out will make them reconsider their gameplan.

 

[Urgoz]

You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.

I understand you now, I've encountered quite a few characters like that some time ago, two were a wolf that spammed B and a Mii Swordfighter that spammed the tornado neutral B waiting for it to connect them rushing to do aerial Up B spin attack (the one similar to link). Took me one stock to adapt, (Mii swordfighter I just spammed back lol) but I rarely encounter them now. I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent), I feel that's because they remain there cause on the upper levels I hardly see them anymore, just really good players that can read opponents and adapt. At what GSP are you? Playing with Samus at 3.8mil I hardly see spammers, but when I tried bowser, who was at like 1.5, all I had were spamming villagers, Mega Mans, Snakes and dash attack spamming Little Macs.

 

[Oneiros5321]

I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent)

Sadly I don't have the same feeling. I mean, there are spammers at low GSP of course, but I don't know, you can sorta feel that it's mainly because they don't quite know how to play and they are usually really easy to beat.

I've encountered more of them above 3 million and they are the most annoying because they got there for a reason, they understand the game, they know how to move and they are much much more annoying to deal with.

That's the feeling I got at least.

EDIT = but maybe I'm getting more frustrated when meeting them at this rank which leads me to make more mistakes, idk

 

[KarneraMythos]

I'm currently at 3.7 million with Mega Man, though I haven't checked that number in a while so maybe it grew since I left. Ironically enough though, I consider Zelda to be my best character atm, but I always switch between both of them (and occasionally Ike).

 

[Xquirtle]

I understand you now, I've encountered quite a few characters like that some time ago, two were a wolf that spammed B and a Mii Swordfighter that spammed the tornado neutral B waiting for it to connect them rushing to do aerial Up B spin attack (the one similar to link). Took me one stock to adapt, (Mii swordfighter I just spammed back lol) but I rarely encounter them now. I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent), I feel that's because they remain there cause on the upper levels I hardly see them anymore, just really good players that can read opponents and adapt. At what GSP are you? Playing with Samus at 3.8mil I hardly see spammers, but when I tried bowser, who was at like 1.5, all I had were spamming villagers, Mega Mans, Snakes and dash attack spamming Little Macs.

I think people mean spamming in the sense that you described your bowser experience. Like half the cast has overly rewarding and asinine moves that are buffed by latency... And the worse a player is, the more likely they are to get absolutely **** on by a B only Ganon (for example). I see that crap all of the time, even over 3 mil. Ganons that actually can't play their character and just get wins off of down B and side B. They must be beating somebody (I just play patiently and platform camp this type of junk.)

Projectile spamming actually seems less common than side B spamming (i mean like refusing to engage close range). Maybe thats because fully committed projectile spamming doesn't actually win you games as single-handedly as dash attack spamming or playing Ridley and using side B 30 times a game. Like if I queue into a Link variant, I know I am going to get camped, but there is a decent chance that the guy can also go in. I do remember a Link that did nothing but camp projectile and camp up B out of shield (which is absolutely busted), but in general, the projectile spammers don't seem to get carried as hard as people doing the side B / dash attack spam.

 

[Sean²]

I'm already in ES, I didn't need anything, I even reached it with Little Mac, people still suck balls. As I said, after hours of playing in Elite Smash, I only met one good player, the rest was just a bunch of level 10 CPU.

The online is trash, now I just play arena with people that I know.

"Location: Austria"

Maybe this is working against you, because I consistently play against people in ES that push me to my absolute limit. Very seldom do I run into someone who just autopilots and sucks. And it isn't usually because of lag or anything. IDK what the level of high level smash players you have over there but regional matchmaking can make things unbalanced. GSP and locking away a higher level of play behind it is silly, but it doesn't make the entire system trash.

 

[InfiniteRE]

If it was up to me, I would do away with the whole GSP system, and implement something a little more simpler and old school per say. I would implement a simple 3 category leader board system (FFA, Team, 1v1) and have it go by points in a simple ladder system.

For example, you match make and the first wave goes 100 ranks either above or below you, and if you don't find one then it goes a little further, lets say 300 ranks and so on.

As for getting points to increase your leader board ranking, they vary depending on the level of competition you play, lets say you play someone 500-1000 ranks ahead of you and you win, you will get a lot more points than playing someone below your competition.

Now I think a system like this should award the grind players and not lower as much for losing, but I think it would make the whole process a lot easier to understand. I know some of you have seen a system like this before, can it work?

 

[Sean²]

Snip

I’ve suggested they look to matchmaking systems similar to Halo 3, Halo Reach, or a mixture of the two if they’re going to remain p2p matchmaking. For as simple as it was, it worked. The reason I state a possible mixture is due to issues that come up with people buying and selling accounts being more prevalent in one game over the other, but a simple ranking system with bonuses for ranking up could work well on Smash. Daily, weekly, or monthly challenges to complete by playing a certain amount of certain game modes online. Don’t hide Elite behind a veil of “skill” either, If we’re paying for it, all modes should be available for everyone.

 

[IrohDW]

If it was up to me, I would do away with the whole GSP system, and implement something a little more simpler and old school per say. I would implement a simple 3 category leader board system (FFA, Team, 1v1) and have it go by points in a simple ladder system.

For example, you match make and the first wave goes 100 ranks either above or below you, and if you don't find one then it goes a little further, lets say 300 ranks and so on.

As for getting points to increase your leader board ranking, they vary depending on the level of competition you play, lets say you play someone 500-1000 ranks ahead of you and you win, you will get a lot more points than playing someone below your competition.

Now I think a system like this should award the grind players and not lower as much for losing, but I think it would make the whole process a lot easier to understand. I know some of you have seen a system like this before, can it work?

I like the idea of segregating the ranking system by ruleset type. It makes no sense to treat skill in FFA the same as skill in 1v1 or team battles. However, I don't have much confidence that the devs would choose good rulesets within those categories. I suppose that the best of both worlds would be to have different modes for each category that guarantee you get the type of match you want, but allow players to choose variations within those categories such as number of stocks, stage type, etc.

Having said that, I think that what the game needs even more is a non-ranked quickplay mode. It annoys me that I can't practice characters I am new with on quickplay without losing a lot of GSP as I learn them. Using the arenas to work on new characters takes more time to set up and requires more effort. I think that players would feel better about quickplay if they didn't always have to risk GSP every time they play it.

 

[Xquirtle]

I like the idea of segregating the ranking system by ruleset type. It makes no sense to treat skill in FFA the same as skill in 1v1 or team battles. However, I don't have much confidence that the devs would choose good rulesets within those categories. I suppose that the best of both worlds would be to have different modes for each category that guarantee you get the type of match you want, but allow players to choose variations within those categories such as number of stocks, stage type, etc.

Having said that, I think that what the game needs even more is a non-ranked quickplay mode. It annoys me that I can't practice characters I am new with on quickplay without losing a lot of GSP as I learn them. Using the arenas to work on new characters takes more time to set up and requires more effort. I think that players would feel better about quickplay if they didn't always have to risk GSP every time they play it.

If we look at for glory and GSP and combined them together, i think we'd be fine. Like Nintendo has shown that they can competently break it out like you want, although, it would be horrific if it went back to omegaLul stages only. That basically breeds cancer.

I have the same thing with alt characters. Like it definitely annoys me to lose GSP even though its a garbage system and its extremely annoying to recover the rating. For example, if you lose 4 or 5 games in a row on Pichu when you first take him online, which is likely, you're going to be pretty low GSP... and if you don't win streak right out of there and establish 5-10 wins at medium to high gsp, you will be buried. Then, to further break you down mentally, the game puts you against players close to your main's gsp, and you lose / win just as much rating as beating the guy at 1 gsp... I use the Pichu example since i decided to pick him up and jump right in. I tanked down to 100k in like 30 minutes lol. Literally queued into a 3.4 mil (34 times my rank? like wtf), lost since I was bad at Pichu, and lost 25% of my ranking while he gained hundreds of thousands. Its actually bonkers. Anyway, I eventually did a few hours of trainer and bot games on PIchu and dug him out, but man was it a pain in the ass and it took a huge win streak. Ughhh!

 

[Arrei]

GSP and Elite Smash continues to confound me. I decided that, after playing with Tap Jump since Smash 64, it was finally time to get out of my comfort zone and turn it off. To that end, I decided to use Lucina for practice, who I had never taken online and I should have, theoretically, been able to lose enough to stay in the kiddie pool where I can practice and start overwriting my jump muscle memory.

I went in, lost my first match, backed out to character select... aaaaaannnd she's in Elite Smash. I guess my baseline GSP is good enough for Elite, but the game just doesn't want to actually put me there until I play a game? Here I am actively trying to avoid getting in and the game just tells me to park my butt down in Elite and deal with it.

 

[Downshift]

I just play arena with people that I know.

This is what I do also now.
I only go into Quickplay/ES to warm up and get up to speed before I go to the Battle Arenas.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

The thing is people are just too focused on their GSP. When I’m playing online, I am never worried about losing GSP for the most part. You yourself have to be the person who wants to improve and isn’t focused on the GSP. You want to improve but at the same time you hate losing your GSP you said it yourself.

Just play. The important thing is to play and play and play. If you want to improve that’s how you do it. Using some arbitrary number in a ranking system with no leaderboard, to gauge your personal ability makes no sense. It just gives you a false sense of self accomplishment. The only benefit of being in Elite Smash is playing better players. You’ll still fight ES level players even at 3.4-3.5 Mil currently. Arenas are going to be a better choice than quickplay for improving anyways in my own opinion.

 

[Klimax]

This is what I do also now.
I only go into Quickplay/ES to warm up and get up to speed before I go to the Battle Arenas.

That's so much better. People are playing better and since there's not a rank or something like this in arena, they don't play like idiots, so it's really good to improve !
I dropped ES and I don't regret it at all !

 

[Downshift]

There are also ways to search for Public Arenas where you can choose higher levels of players to go up against. There's not really anything stopping a noob from stumbling into a "Glorious Smashers" instead of "All Skill Levels" Arena, but once the Arena host realizes they're a scrub, or have a laggy connection or whatever, they can kick them.
Some people might not like that you have to watch 4 matches before you get to play once if there's a full room, but it's worth it to be able to swap characters but play the same people again, and also to see how other decent players and their techniques, adapt to them while they're also watching you and adapting to you.

 

[Xquirtle]

The thing is people are just too focused on their GSP. When I’m playing online, I am never worried about losing GSP for the most part. You yourself have to be the person who wants to improve and isn’t focused on the GSP. You want to improve but at the same time you hate losing your GSP you said it yourself.

Just play. The important thing is to play and play and play. If you want to improve that’s how you do it. Using some arbitrary number in a ranking system with no leaderboard, to gauge your personal ability makes no sense. It just gives you a false sense of self accomplishment. The only benefit of being in Elite Smash is playing better players. You’ll still fight ES level players even at 3.4-3.5 Mil currently. Arenas are going to be a better choice than quickplay for improving anyways in my own opinion.

Low GSP does seem to have a higher likelihood of something totally asinine popping up like insufferable lag or stupid rules. I've said in other posts that I don't see a big difference, but I think there is at least some slight correlation there. If that were the case, then maybe GSP matters for getting 3 stock battlefield (everything else is degenerate) more reliably. I'd also theorize that worse players are more likely to have incredibly annoying and degenerate play styles where the only fun to be had is at the match victory screen. To that end, players that want "serious" practice might want to avoid a low GSP sink hole.

Regardless, I do agree that its generally a bad thing to look at. Like if we just forget about GSP, not caring about ranking in any online game is generally a productive mind set in the long run.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Low GSP does seem to have a higher likelihood of something totally asinine popping up like insufferable lag or stupid rules. I've said in other posts that I don't see a big difference, but I think there is at least some slight correlation there. If that were the case, then maybe GSP matters for getting 3 stock battlefield (everything else is degenerate) more reliably. I'd also theorize that worse players are more likely to have incredibly annoying and degenerate play styles where the only fun to be had is at the match victory screen. To that end, players that want "serious" practice might want to avoid a low GSP sink hole.

Regardless, I do agree that its generally a bad thing to look at. Like if we just forget about GSP, not caring about ranking in any online game is generally a productive mind set in the long run.

I agree, that’s literally the only reason I put “for the most part” when speaking on losing GSP. When it’s too low it becomes a bad thing but honestly if you’re at least 3 Mil everything should be pretty smooth.

 

[SoupA113]

As a long-time Smash Bros. fan, I'm pretty decent at the game. I'm not great, but I' good to where I beat my siblings, and I put up a fight for my friends who are significantly better (think elite smash). I love Ultimate just as much as the next guy, maybe even more, but I am really having trouble improving at the game. I have found that that is in part by GSP, as I'll play at starting GSP, and win once or twice, depending on the situation. But then I lose to one person and it brings me down to the 500,000's. It's really dumb, and now instead of working on my skill against players my level, I go up, get clapped by someone far superior than me, and then grind to get back up to starting point. It's a flawed system that stunts my growth. Instead of thinking about how I can improve and what I should do in situations, my mind is on how many Item-Using players I'll have to grind through. And Wolf. SO MUCH WOLF on low GSP. Not only that, but Low GSP is kind of a joke on platforms like YouTube. "Low GSP is a scary place", I hear a lot on YouTube. And I can confirm that. Its filled with players who aren't skilled at the game, and that's ok. But being the type of person who doesn't trust their own opinion, and needs verification elsewhere, seeing the number that represents "my skill level" hurts and discourages me to get better. I can't get better, and when I do I get shot down. In conclusion, I need help finding ways to get better, and GSP is my least favorite part of Smash Ultimate. I understand where Sakurai was coming from, and I see the intent, I just believe it's a flawed system.
What does Smash Boards have to say?

 

[Sean²]

As a long-time Smash Bros. fan, I'm pretty decent at the game. I'm not great, but I' good to where I beat my siblings, and I put up a fight for my friends who are significantly better (think elite smash). I love Ultimate just as much as the next guy, maybe even more, but I am really having trouble improving at the game. I have found that that is in part by GSP, as I'll play at starting GSP, and win once or twice, depending on the situation. But then I lose to one person and it brings me down to the 500,000's. It's really dumb, and now instead of working on my skill against players my level, I go up, get clapped by someone far superior than me, and then grind to get back up to starting point. It's a flawed system that stunts my growth. Instead of thinking about how I can improve and what I should do in situations, my mind is on how many Item-Using players I'll have to grind through. And Wolf. SO MUCH WOLF on low GSP. Not only that, but Low GSP is kind of a joke on platforms like YouTube. "Low GSP is a scary place", I hear a lot on YouTube. And I can confirm that. Its filled with players who aren't skilled at the game, and that's ok. But being the type of person who doesn't trust their own opinion, and needs verification elsewhere, seeing the number that represents "my skill level" hurts and discourages me to get better. I can't get better, and when I do I get shot down. In conclusion, I need help finding ways to get better, and GSP is my least favorite part of Smash Ultimate. I understand where Sakurai was coming from, and I see the intent, I just believe it's a flawed system.
What does Smash Boards have to say?

If someone unironically tells you they think GSP is a great ranking system, they're a psychopath. Cut them off and get out of town before they murder you in your sleep.

Anyway, your first few matches with a new character have a greater effect on your GSP - I've gotten characters to Elite within only 3-4 wins. At the same time, I've dropped well below a million just with a few consecutive losses on a character I've never played. There's also a greater change based on whether you beat someone with a much higher GSP than you, or you lose to someone with a much lower GSP than you. It's not a difficult system to exploit, either. Look around this forum and you'll see plenty of posts detailing their experiences with ridiculous matches online like running into 1 stock stamina matches and whatnot.

 

[SuperDoom1]

I'm a guy who plays Smash for fun.
I always do one-stock 1v1s with most items on using whatever stage I want.

On Valentine's Day, my parents bought me and my little sister Emma an NSO subscription for a year. After a few matches of Tetris Fortnite 99, I decided to play some Ultimate online. I mean, I was pretty good at the game -- I always went up against Lv. 9 CPUs and only lost about three eighths of the time.

However, there was one glaring flaw.

One gigantic flaw that puts the rest of my SSBU time where I thought I was decent at the game into perspective.




My strategy is to spam smash attacks.
I don't know when this habit formed -- I used to get a few sweet kills in Smash 4 when I mained Mr. Game & Watch like this one time where I won a match against an Ike on Balloon Fight Omega in For Glory 1v1 where he kept dodge-rolling and I kept using Judge and when I finally decided to stop turning around because of how predictable the Ike (or maybe it was Falco) player was, my Judge hit a 9, but I think the habit formed in Multi-Man Smash.

Years ago, when I still mained Mr. G&W in both Brawl and Smash 4, I tried to get the world record in Endless Brawl. I used a Wiimote and Nunchuk (my only options), and started shaking them like there was no tomorrow. I think my record is around 135.
It was hard to go back. I still can't.
And human players know how to counter my strategy.



This is why I will never get into Elite Smash.

 

[Whit]

I'm a guy who plays Smash for fun.
I always do one-stock 1v1s with most items on using whatever stage I want.

On Valentine's Day, my parents bought me and my little sister Emma an NSO subscription for a year. After a few matches of Tetris Fortnite 99, I decided to play some Ultimate online. I mean, I was pretty good at the game -- I always went up against Lv. 9 CPUs and only lost about three eighths of the time.

However, there was one glaring flaw.

One gigantic flaw that puts the rest of my SSBU time where I thought I was decent at the game into perspective.




My strategy is to spam smash attacks.
I don't know when this habit formed -- I used to get a few sweet kills in Smash 4 when I mained Mr. Game & Watch like this one time where I won a match against an Ike on Balloon Fight Omega in For Glory 1v1 where he kept dodge-rolling and I kept using Judge and when I finally decided to stop turning around because of how predictable the Ike (or maybe it was Falco) player was, my Judge hit a 9, but I think the habit formed in Multi-Man Smash.

Years ago, when I still mained Mr. G&W in both Brawl and Smash 4, I tried to get the world record in Endless Brawl. I used a Wiimote and Nunchuk (my only options), and started shaking them like there was no tomorrow. I think my record is around 135.
It was hard to go back. I still can't.
And human players know how to counter my strategy.



This is why I will never get into Elite Smash.

Oh my... j-just spamming smash attacks? That is... well I guess that's one way to play alright. If you're just playing for fun and its fun doing that, then keep right on smashing. That's the whole point of the game anyways, to have fun. I do have to agree though, that strategy is not going to get you to Elite Smash any time soon. Assuming you want to get better, it goes without saying that you need to use other moves. Watch videos, play against real people, not CPUs. CPUs are good to practice combos, techniques, etc, but they don't play like people and you can't gain proper experience fighting just them. Ignore the GSP and just practice with other people to get better, not to win. Sorry for the unprompted advice. Disregard me if you're just venting and just want to have fun smashing.

 

[Coolboy]

i wonder how my GSP for my main characters look like now lol i haven't played for a month now..pfffft soooo many hobbies.... but yeah i wonder if they are the same/higher, i really would lmao if randomly 1 of them got into ES for literally not playing xD

 

[DCavalier]

If someone unironically tells you they think GSP is a great ranking system, they're a psychopath. Cut them off and get out of town before they murder you in your sleep.

Anyway, your first few matches with a new character have a greater effect on your GSP - I've gotten characters to Elite within only 3-4 wins. At the same time, I've dropped well below a million just with a few consecutive losses on a character I've never played. There's also a greater change based on whether you beat someone with a much higher GSP than you, or you lose to someone with a much lower GSP than you. It's not a difficult system to exploit, either. Look around this forum and you'll see plenty of posts detailing their experiences with ridiculous matches online like running into 1 stock stamina matches and whatnot.

I thought 1 stock 4 min matches were an urban legend.
Oh boy was I wrong, the lamest part of it is that the opponent had a really high GSP like 3.78 million, so it must be a thing that actually works if somehow it managed to reach that level of GSP.

 

[Sean²]

I thought 1 stock 4 min matches were an urban legend.
Oh boy was I wrong, the lamest part of it is that the opponent had a really high GSP like 3.78 million, so it must be a thing that actually works if somehow it managed to reach that level of GSP.

I played a 1v1 match with 1 stock 3 minute 100HP stamina on Venom a few days ago. I almost had it over with, but Pokeballs were everywhere, and his Abra teleported me under the stage. I couldn’t recover.

Best part was this guy was well above 3.9 million in Elite. I actually think I was playing against Satan himself.

 

[DCavalier]

I played a 1v1 match with 1 stock 3 minute 100HP stamina on Venom a few days ago. I almost had it over with, but Pokeballs were everywhere, and his Abra teleported me under the stage. I couldn’t recover.

Best part was this guy was well above 3.9 million in Elite. I actually think I was playing against Satan himself.

Maybe but only if it was playing a swordie, rat or crowned princess.
But damn, I mean, I know you should always play to win but winning that way just doesn't sit well with me because you are removing the competitive aspect.
And it can be really boring to try and catch an opponent that is stalling on purpose because of the ruleset and that is without items mind you.

I think we should only think of ELITE Smash as a way to filter the decent players from the bad ones and not really has a Realistic Ranking system for now.
The idea they have is great but the fact that Casual and Competitive affect the same Ranking means it won't be based on skill entirely and that sucks.

The easiest way to fix this IMO is:
- To separate Casual from Competitive ala For Glory and For Fun
- Have the same ranking system but have it only be affected by the For Glory matches.
- Define a Tournament Legal ruleset and have it be the default ex ( 3 Stocks, 7 Min, BattleFields and Omega Versions )

As an addition to the last point, they could make an special option for the stages as in, define the specific versions of each stage that are accepted as Tournament Legal, that way we won't be stuck with BF and FD and could have a way to add Lylat, Town and City, the PK Stadiums and Castle Siege.

If they did this, I think I could accept GSP for what they wanted it to be "The most skilled players".
As of now it is "The most 'skilled' players that got there by whatever means necessary or by a lucky Starman or Bob-omb".

I don't deny that great players are in Elite Smash but seeing this stuff like items, 1 stock or stamina matches really take away from the main selling point of trying to get to Elite Smash.

Rant over ??