Tomafia 4: Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[---]

Making a mistake? I don't know whether to be flattered or nervous (I definitely want feedback from you mafia vets after the game is over, I can tell you all come from more conservative play setups than I am used to).

If you think you have picked up on my clues feel free to state them for others. My only strategy is being blunt.

 

[Lore]

Alright here's my reads:

Scumbos:

<pi: Some of the things you've been saying has seemed weird to me. Talking about past mafia games seems weird too. The "joke" vote doesn't help either.

Rockin: I almost want to put you as a Nullo, but I keep thinking of back when you wanted the active people to take a step back, and that's always stood out to me.


Nullos:

Werekill: You're acting pretty aggressively with the way you're addressing people, but I see it as you trying to get discussion started, which I can dig.

Matunas: Your early vote on me caught me off guard, but once again I see it more as you trying to get things rolling and getting reactions out of a new player, which again I dig.


Townos:

Everyone else

Your reads are your reads, but I'd advise mentally keeping everyone not solid as Nullos instead of Townos this early. Mentally filing them as Town could lead to bias, especially if one of those "townos" begins trying to buddy with you as Scum.

This is assuming that you aren't scum; this post from you softens my scum read on you further. I'm keeping you on that list, though, until I see a bit more.

Unless of course labeling everyone else as Townos is an attempt to buddy everyone as Scum, but that's a WIFOM rabbit hole that I don't want to go down right now. It'd be bad play if I went down that hole from this alone, I feel.

Making a mistake? I don't know whether to be flattered or nervous (I definitely want feedback from you mafia vets after the game is over, I can tell you all come from more conservative play setups than I am used to).

If you think you have picked up on my clues feel free to state them for others. My only strategy is being blunt.

To be clear, I don't mean it as an insult. The play feels more like Town attempting a badly timed/strategized gambit rather than something else, the more I think on it.

What do you mean about the conservative play setups, and how is your lack of experience with them affecting your play here, in your view?

I'm leaning that you're Vanilla Town due to game theory and the Vanilla mention from you earlier, but the Vanilla mention was only picked up by me after a reread. I just don't see a situation where a power role would do that this early, especially with no guarantee of a doctor/protect role.

 

[Strong Badam]

Nah dude, --- has said Chocolate, Strawberry, and Vanilla, I imagine his intended clue is that his role is Neapolitan Townie.

Super busy at work today btw, I'll go through my reads in the evening and see what's up.

 

[---]

What do you mean about the conservative play setups, and how is your lack of experience with them affecting your play here, in your view?

I primarily mean in terms of Night PMs not being a thing changing up one's overall strategy. Reads become much more important for the town if you can't share information you don't want scum, in theory, to have.

And don't worry, I'm not insulted. There are different ways to view playing a role, especially went nothing is in a state of being able to be proven or when you don't know what other roles are in play.

 

[Lore]

Nah dude, --- has said Chocolate, Strawberry, and Vanilla, I imagine his intended clue is that his role is Neapolitan Townie.

Super busy at work today btw, I'll go through my reads in the evening and see what's up.

Ah, gotcha. That just makes me feel even more that this is just a bad Town gambit, no offense - - -.

I primarily mean in terms of Night PMs not being a thing changing up one's overall strategy. Reads become much more important for the town if you can't share information you don't want scum, in theory, to have.

And don't worry, I'm not insulted. There are different ways to view playing a role, especially went nothing is in a state of being able to be proven or when you don't know what other roles are in play.

Makes sense. Yeah I haven't played in a game with night pms.

 

[Mediocre]

I'm going to start in on my reread now, but I'll respond to Werekill's post first.

On the surface, this post sounds like Medi calling out SB and questioning him for a bit of loose wording.

But let's look a bit deeper. The posts that Medi quoted were partially about activity vs inactivity in terms of how town should play, particular the third quoted post (not shown in this quote chunk of my post). This was Medi's first non-intro post since the game began; he certainly fell into the "inactive" player pool. To then have his first active post be a condemnation of a player calling out inactive players?

It's weird.

I definitely mentioned that SB's first post was the one that struck me as the oddest. The first post I quoted, by itself, struck me as odd enough that I took note of it. Everything afterwards was part of a trend.

Not trying to sound full of myself, but I've been roughly as active as SB and more active than <pi. Why do you only have reads (albeit weak ones) on only those two players? Why explicitly choose one player as town read and one player as scum without mentioning any others? Again, it's weird.

I actually have already typed up my reply to this question, but before I give it I'd like to hear the motivation behind this question. Is it a genuine inquiry which represents your actual reasoning, or is it a throwaway question mainly to prompt a response from me? My answer to it won't change either way, but I would like to know.

 

[Mediocre]

And just to be clear my response that I've typed up to Werekill isn't a novel or anything. It's just a paragraph or so. But I feel like his answer will be more informative if he gives it before I properly respond.

 

[Lore]

Driving home and in traffic for about an hour, will answer when home

 

[Pythag]

Pythag How are you feeling now that a lot more has been said?

Feeling pretty good. Hbu?

I don't completely like town/scum leans on D1, it strikes me like a staircase of coins. Once you get beyond 1-2 clues, the whole thing tumbles cause it doesn't have a firm base. Cases made on D1 are flimsy at best, So Everything can change by D2 (hopefully we can all understand that)

That being said, someone needs to get lynched, because it's a terrible idea to no lynch.

And to offer a criticism without a better idea is complaining, so here are my leans.

My thoughts these are in order that I'd be ok voting,


pi / Strong bad.
I'm not crazy about how either of you argue, there's aggression there, and I feel like it's based off of out of context things, or rather, proof-texting each others posts, to try to make it say what you want. I don't think both y'all are scum, but at this point I do think one of you is.

pi is also a bit schizophrenic in play style. Not sure what's going on there. As werekill mentioned, "joke vote" but also asked (i could be wrong) to pump the breaks when werekill placed a vote earlier in the game. Scummy

Rockin -
I don't quite understand Rockin's early defensiveness, on D1. It just....hits me as odd. The old D1's I recall (or on mafiascum) are rife with votes being thrown left right and center. Scummy

Medi - NULL, though I don't like the lack of activity.

-Matunas - NULL

--- is playing chess while we're playing checkers rn. NULL

Werekill - very active. Trying to figure out if he's drumming up a wagon for Rockin. Is he giving good arguments, or is he trying to get others to lead the charge. He's actually being helpful instead of trying to act helpful. Town

Tewn - I think he's obvtown. Town

 

[Tom]

Just a note: there are no Night PMs in this game. I understand their purpose, but they are not a part of the 2d3 setup.

 

[Tom]

06. Don't talk about the game outside of the thread unless your role says you can.

 

[Lore]

I'm going to start in on my reread now, but I'll respond to Werekill's post first.

I definitely mentioned that SB's first post was the one that struck me as the oddest. The first post I quoted, by itself, struck me as odd enough that I took note of it. Everything afterwards was part of a trend.

I actually have already typed up my reply to this question, but before I give it I'd like to hear the motivation behind this question. Is it a genuine inquiry which represents your actual reasoning, or is it a throwaway question mainly to prompt a response from me? My answer to it won't change either way, but I would like to know.

Fair on that first bit, it just stood out to me as odd.

As for your question, it's a genuine inquiry. The earlier "response prompting" was typical early D1 stuff, and I only explicitly pointed out what it was due to having players ask why I was voting.

Your listing of reads on two players, conveniently one with town and one with scum, is just weird when there are several other active players. Like even if you ignore me, Rockin has been decently active too, among other players.

 

[Mediocre]

Fair on that first bit, it just stood out to me as odd.

As for your question, it's a genuine inquiry. The earlier "response prompting" was typical early D1 stuff, and I only explicitly pointed out what it was due to having players ask why I was voting.

Your listing of reads on two players, conveniently one with town and one with scum, is just weird when there are several other active players. Like even if you ignore me, Rockin has been decently active too, among other players.

I'm in the progress of doing a reread, but it's been slow since I'm also juggling another kinda-sorta secret game (first world problems, I know).

Not trying to sound full of myself, but I've been roughly as active as SB and more active than <pi. Why do you only have reads (albeit weak ones) on only those two players? Why explicitly choose one player as town read and one player as scum without mentioning any others? Again, it's weird.

So, to properly respond to your question. I mentioned specific reasons I had the reads I do on both SB and <pi. To put it simply, none of those reasons apply to you. Despite the volume of your posts, you've done nothing that really tips me one way or the other on you. Hopefully that will change after my reread, but as you yourself have said, activity in and of itself doesn't indicate towniness or scumminess. There are equally plausible rationales for your posting style from both a scum and town point of view.

I'll go a little more in depth about what I actually think of you apart from scum/town in my summary post, but like I said it's been sort of slow going.

 

[Lore]

That's a pretty satisfactory answer.

My current D1 lynch pool is Rockin and Pi, with Medi as another acceptable option. No offense Medi, it's just the general vibe that I get, despite your answer. I'd only want to vote for you if Rockin or Pi is not an option at all.

For you, Medi, it's less that you're a scum read, more that you're the only one I'm iffy on atm besides those two. I have you back as "null but noteworthy."

Day 1 ****ing sucks.

 

[Strong Badam]

So my day one lynch pool is Pi, Trihy, and Rockin. My read right now is that Pi and --- scumbuddies. Pi reacted really negatively to the first vote from Werekill going to Trihy, but had seemingly no issue with Rockin getting up to 3 votes later. Trihy played it cool and didn't really react, and instead slowly started dropping clues that he was a Town power role (Neapolitan), which is... weird. Doing a gambit as Town is not common, and especially uncommon on day 1. However I don't think we should be trying to punish poor play with lynches of course, we should be exclusively trying to hit scum with our lynches. Pi and ---'s behavior combined is why I feel like they are scum, if tryhy behaved that way in reaction to the vote on him alone I think I'd have been less likely to concludethis.

Pi is just the strongest choice in general for D1 Lynch IMO, for reasons stated. Strong overreaction to random voting phase, repeated refusal to answer questions as to why he kept his vote on Rockin even when Rockin hit 3 votes, bragging about how he played Mafia in a different game,

As far as anyone else, I don't think there's a good call for anyone to be scummy, I think if I had to pick it would be Rockin but there's nothing in his argumentation that's strictly odd. I don't even have an issue with him requesting me and Werekill to take a back seat; it's possible that that our activity has been overwhelming to newer players and that less activity from us could encourage others to join in. Not that that stopped me, but yeah.

As far as the rest of my reads, I just don't think there's much scummy behavior going on, other folks have made clerical errors but have been swift to respond/correct them if called out on (Like Matunas mistaking Rockin's argumentation leading to a vote on him, then unvoting when he was called out). Tewn hasn't posted enough to have a read on him & is a new player. Matunas, Mediocre and Pythag have been participating to some degree but not a lot, but have generally stated things of substance when they show up. Mediocre didn't respond jack **** to ---'s vote on him. Werekill is super active and hasn't said anything particularly concerning to me, so he reads as town to me.

 

[Strong Badam]

With the above reasoning I am dropping my vote for Pi and I think unless something major happens, this is who our D1 Lynch should be. Happy to listen to reasonings (I know Mediocre had some reasoning earlier on a previous page) if anyone has something to add but for now this is my vote.

Vote: <π

 

[Tom]

Vote Count [5/9 to lynch]:
Rockin (2): <π, Werekill
<π (1): Strong Bad
Mediocre (1): ---
Not voting (5): TewnLeenk, Pythag, Rockin, Mediocre, Matunas

Day 1 will end without a lynch on Friday, March 29 at 5:30 CST, or when a player reaches 5/9 votes.

 

[Lore]

I want to see how Pi responds to that, SB, before I fully dedicate my vote that way. It's about 50/50 between him and Rockin right now, and his reaction will be the decider I think.

I'm down for either to go, just trying to decide who I'd rather push for. I also need sleep lol.

 

[Lore]

Day 1 always sucks though. Ugh.

 

[Mediocre]

Werekill - My read on Werekill is very thin. I appreciate how he's prompting discussion, and as such even if I had a slight scum read I might be hesitant to actually push for a lynch. But the fact that he has been helpful really doesn't do much to clear him, in my eyes. I have always found that one of the most effective tactics when playing as mafia is to be genuinely helpful, be active, have good insights, and thereby take a large degree of control over the game. Other players will almost always be hesitant to lynch someone who has assumed that role. For now, I'd prefer to leave Werekill alone, but I'll be keeping this in mind as the game progresses.

<π - Upon reread, I'm really having a hard time figuring out what to make of <pi. He's just so suspicious, but I feel like his actions don't actually make sense for either town or mafia. I still have a slight town read, just because I feel like if he was mafia he would be more hesitant to draw this kind of attention for no/minimal benefit. That said, I'm not confident at all.

Strong Bad - I've already detailed a lot of my thoughts on Strong Bad, and they haven't changed. One thing I will say is that like Werekill, he's someone I'd be hesitant to lynch just because he promotes discussion, and that is almost inherently good for town. Even though I'm slightly leaning scum, I would push back against a D1 lynch on Strong Bad for that reason alone.

TewnLeenk - Tewn was pretty much a nonentity until his reads post earlier today, and the reads themselves were pretty surface level. Just to be clear, I'm not faulting Tewn for his inexperience, but I almost feel like he's deliberately been trying to stay in the background. I guess that means I have a slight scum read on him.

Pythag - I don't really have a read on Pythag. He's been making good points, he's been moderately active, but he hasn't been as loud as either SB or Werekill. That might be a smart scum strategy, and Pythag is smart enough to try something I've never really seen before. Despite that, I don't remember seeing anyone who posted quite like this and turned out to be mafia. After the reread, I think Pythag is a moderate town read for me. Definitely not set in stone, but probably my strongest read yet.

Rockin - If I'm remembering correctly, Rockin is reasonably experienced with mafia. Given that, I found his initial stance against uninformed discussion and arbitrary bandwagoning/voting confusing. It sucks, but there's no other way for D1 to start. (Rockin, I'm assuming you're reading this, so I guess I'll just ask you why you voiced those concerns. Was this D1 different in some way from other D1s you've played through? Are you just out of practice?) Rockin's request for SB and Werekill to step back was also odd, but it strikes me as a careless request that Rockin might have made from either scum or town motives. Unfortunately, it doesn't really help inform my opinion. However, the fact that Rockin came out like he did against early uninformed discussion/bandwagoning makes me lean slightly scum on him.

Matunas - On the reread I had an initial slight town impression of Tuna, but the way he changed his vote to Rockin struck me as possibly opportunistic. On the whole, I have a pretty neutral impression.

--- - --- has actually said very little, other than the implied role-claim. The vote for me was more of a prod than a serious vote, as far as I can tell, and unless I missed it --- hasn't even attempted to make any reads on anyone. To me, the lack of input and the roleclaim strategy is hard to read, which I seem to be saying about a lot of players so far. ---, if you're reading this, how much mafia have you played? That might help inform my opinion of your potential scumminess so far.


Also, somehow I totally missed replying to people I should have replied to, so I'll just do that now.

Mediocre Rockin Hey guys. Long time.

It has been a long time. I got kind of tired of mafia years ago, but it's good to be back. It will be better once we're past D1 (assuming I last that long).

GAWD medi, get with the times. D:<

I'm old now, Rockin. I don't understand these newfangled tags.

Although I do use Discord so I probably should have thought to try using @.

 

[---]

--- - --- has actually said very little, other than the implied role-claim. The vote for me was more of a prod than a serious vote, as far as I can tell, and unless I missed it --- hasn't even attempted to make any reads on anyone. To me, the lack of input and the roleclaim strategy is hard to read, which I seem to be saying about a lot of players so far. ---, if you're reading this, how much mafia have you played? That might help inform my opinion of your potential scumminess so far.

I've played around 10 games or so. All of which have had Night PMs or rules that are much more liberal (ex. mafia factions, votes counting more/less on certain days, double abilities, etc). The current line of themed games from the NintenZone folks are good examples.

 

[Mediocre]

My current D1 lynch pool is Rockin and Pi, with Medi as another acceptable option. No offense Medi, it's just the general vibe that I get, despite your answer. I'd only want to vote for you if Rockin or Pi is not an option at all.

For you, Medi, it's less that you're a scum read, more that you're the only one I'm iffy on atm besides those two. I have you back as "null but noteworthy."

Definitely no offense taken. I'll just tell you upfront that I try to play basically the same as scum or town. I try to make logical deductions (ignoring meta-scum knowledge if I'm scum). Except in rare circumstances, I don't make gambits or tricky plays. I'm not sure if my playstyle is even close to optimal, but it's how I prefer to play.

Maybe I have some tell that helps indicate whether I'm scum or town, but I'm not sure what it would be. Anyway, I understand vibes that are hard to explain.

So my day one lynch pool is Pi, Trihy, and Rockin. My read right now is that Pi and --- scumbuddies. Pi reacted really negatively to the first vote from Werekill going to Trihy, but had seemingly no issue with Rockin getting up to 3 votes later. Trihy played it cool and didn't really react, and instead slowly started dropping clues that he was a Town power role (Neapolitan), which is... weird. Doing a gambit as Town is not common, and especially uncommon on day 1. However I don't think we should be trying to punish poor play with lynches of course, we should be exclusively trying to hit scum with our lynches. Pi and ---'s behavior combined is why I feel like they are scum, if tryhy behaved that way in reaction to the vote on him alone I think I'd have been less likely to concludethis.

Pi is just the strongest choice in general for D1 Lynch IMO, for reasons stated. Strong overreaction to random voting phase, repeated refusal to answer questions as to why he kept his vote on Rockin even when Rockin hit 3 votes, bragging about how he played Mafia in a different game,

This all seems at least plausible to me. I am not against a Rockin lynch, but I think I'm going to hold off until tomorrow before I actually vote for anyone.

Mediocre didn't respond jack **** to ---'s vote on him.

It didn't feel like a serious vote, or anything that was likely to lead to a bandwagon. It was a prod with no real reasoning behind it besides the fact that I was sort of quiet.

There's nothing wrong with a prod like that, but there's really not a lot I can say in response to it.

I've played around 10 games or so. All of which have had Night PMs or rules that are much more liberal (ex. mafia factions, votes counting more/less on certain days, double abilities, etc). The current line of themed games from the NintenZone folks are good examples.

A different environment could explain your approach, I guess. It's definitely pretty unusual based on what I remember of SWF mafia.

I know you've said you've been having trouble making reads, and I can kind of understand that, although it's a little frustrating trying to figure you out from what you've posted thus far. That said, multiple people (myself included) have been posting a bunch of reads recently. Are there any that are persuasive to you? Any that you disagree with?

 

[Mediocre]

Wow, somehow I misread SB as pushing for a Rockin lynch. I'm not sure how I managed that one.

I'm a little uncomfortable with a <pi lynch. I don't think I'll be voting for <pi, unless something changes.

 

[Matunas]

Heading home now. Will catch up on the ride and post then.

 

[Matunas]

Feeling pretty good. Hbu?

Doing pretty good these days. Enjoying life on the west coast. I appreciate your response. You gave a pretty clear impression of where you stand on things as a whole. Curious as to what you think of Medi now that he has posted significantly more.

It has been a long time. I got kind of tired of mafia years ago, but it's good to be back. It will be better once we're past D1 (assuming I last that long).

I'm in the same boat. Haven't been on much, but glad to be back for a game with some familiar faces.

Its funny to read you describe your playstyle. Playing with/against you in the past that is always the vibe I got. A guy playing the game who can be hard to read because he is simply playing what is visible. This game feels very much the same so far. You've given good reads in the last few posts. I agree with your stance on Werekill and SB, as they promote discussion and have some leader like qualities in the early game. Hard to say one way or the other my town/scum read for them, but I am also against either lynching based purely on the promotion of discussion and asking real questions to others. I find a very null read on you, maybe leaning townie.

--- , at this point we have the most information about you. If it was a claim of sorts, either falsely laid or serious, that is a lot of information. Making it easy to keep on eye on what you say or do from here. For this reason I wouldn't want to get rid of you on D1. However, I feel you have stated the least amount when it comes to opinions of others and actual stances of any kind, leaving very little impact on the total reads of the day so far. There was a point where SB asked you about your opinion on something and you never responded, just a vague post and vote on Medi. Something I would typically consider kinda scummy. While I still get a townie vibe from you, there are things that make me question it. I would love to hear how you feel about the current votes and what we should do heading into the last day.

Lore , so far you seem to be playing a solid game to me. Asking questions where they need to be asked and paying attention to details in your posts. I appreciate asking for clarification when something is vague, it clears up a lot of misconceptions in a game like this, which typically benefits town. I think you are a strong person to have around. But as Medi mentioned earlier I think it is important to keep an eye on those in "leadership" roles in these types of game.

Rockin , I’ll be honest and say I wanted to keep some pressure on you today, because I had some questions on your early play. But when I realized how badly I misread that section, I felt like I had to unvote. I agree that telling others to take a backseat early is not the best call and came off as a little weird, but not enough that it screams scrum to me. Otherwise I mostly picked up on you trying to prod others to talk and getting a feel for the game again. Hard for me to say one way or the other.

TewnLeenk , I think your post on reads was a good first real impression for me. But you still haven’t posted a ton of info as a whole. How do you feel moving into the end of D1? Any thoughts on other’s reads?

<π you never answered me on why you brought up meta early (115), but that really isn’t important as a whole. We haven’t heard anything from you since you posted your reads. I think now is an important time to see if you have any updated stances on anything. When it comes to the overall feel of everyone, your list is the one I think I disagree with the most. I don’t really know why you feel that way about any of your reads. It kinda seems like your scum reads are based on the fact that they are active and that's about all I see from your posts? Where do you stand right now? Who do you think is a good candidate?

Strong Badam , I said this earlier, but I find myself agreeing, in general, with most of your stances. I like that you ask for reasons behind decisions and are actively following up. When you do state your opinion you say why, and clearly. I don't agree with completely with --- being a scum read at the moment, but that is more of a gut feeling than anything else. However, I do agree that as of right now <π is the most solid first day choice. I want to wait and see if there are responses to the what was posted tonight before I commit to voting, but as of now I plan on voting for <π in the morning based on current events.

 

[Rockin]

Oh I was not expecting this amount of negativity/scummy feels towards my actions on bandwagoning and whatnot. LOL

Either way I've given several clues to my role. That's the biggest contribution I feel I can make for now.

Bleh. =/

Rockin - If I'm remembering correctly, Rockin is reasonably experienced with mafia. Given that, I found his initial stance against uninformed discussion and arbitrary bandwagoning/voting confusing. It sucks, but there's no other way for D1 to start. (Rockin, I'm assuming you're reading this, so I guess I'll just ask you why you voiced those concerns. Was this D1 different in some way from other D1s you've played through? Are you just out of practice?) Rockin's request for SB and Werekill to step back was also odd, but it strikes me as a careless request that Rockin might have made from either scum or town motives. Unfortunately, it doesn't really help inform my opinion. However, the fact that Rockin came out like he did against early uninformed discussion/bandwagoning makes me lean slightly scum on him.

First off, I'm not ashame to admit that I could be out of practice. After all, it's been years. Calling me reasonably experience is...debatable. I've played a lot of Mafia, yeah, but I've also died a good portion of times as town from lynches (there's been several reasons. Can't even remember, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them was poor defense on myself). I don't think I ever survived/made it to the end when town wins. LOL

I voice these concerns cause aside from not being a fan of bandwagoning, there...wasn't much of a wagon to go on. I believe SB and Werekill were the only two on the bandwagon, and it just didn't sound like there was much info to go about it. I've also was under the impression people would be a bit more serious with their votes after the 'lulz' moment passed. I'll explain.

NORMALLY, what I tend to see in d1 is

1) everyone acts silly when game immediately starts
2) discussion starts, everyone is serious business (usually there's a single post that starts it)
3) more discussion with a bit of pressure

The way I look at things is that once 2) kicks in, I look at everything at face value and see their stances. The game started with a few lulzy post and then once I saw this...

We can be friends. <3



I appreciate the Werekill pun there lol.



Yeah I wasn't expecting the scum number to be hinted at in the opening flavor, isn't that kinda rare?

I'm about to reread the OP, but I'm pretty sure we have no third party right?

I know 2) started and that I should start looking at things with a serious mindset.

I said this several times, but I think people are mis-reading my intentions/posts at the beginning, and thus are getting scummy vibes from me. I didn't want to stop discussion. I just didn't like the 'wagoning' that went on. I mean it was fine that they did it, but the only thing I was going to do was judge and keep it in mind in future Days. --- continued his breadcrumbing while being lazy throughout most of the discussion. The reason why I wanted werekill and SB to take more of a backseat is to give others a chance to speak. I didn't want the day to mostly be dominated by those two guys speaking. I wanted to get more of a feel of everyone's stances, so I was trying to encourage others to speak up more, especially <pi and tewnleenk. I've also seen several Mafia games where scum would coast on by under active speakers to avoid certain level of detection and slipups (and there's also been cases where one of those active/controling speakers were mafia. eh)


I know I'm rusty af, and I'm sure players will always do things differently in mafia games depending, but right now I'm mostly going on gut and as much mafia exp. as I can on my approach on things.

Speaking of lynches, I would still rather go for a werekill lynch, but I'll begrudgingly take a <pi lynch too

 

[<π]

wowee.


SB are you trying to bully people off of Rockin? Or am I missing something.

How this post should have read.
VVV

wowee.

Strong Bad said:

Yeah, I'd really like for votes at this point to be more carefully placed. Matunas are you able to respond to Rockin's correction to your reasoning for voting on him? I went back through the posts and verified that he was correct.
<π your vote on Rockin has been there since #86 for nonsense reasoning. Can you either grant us new valid reasoning or unvote?

SB are you trying to bully people off of Rockin? Or am I missing something.

Strong Bad said:

Cmon dude, random votes at the start of D1 are very common. There's nothing wrong with them and you've never offered any alternative strategy.

But now we need to be careful with our votes? Nah... I had a feeling about you... and now I'm feeling rockin even more. Nah... I'll keep the joke vote.

I asked you for clarification since you brought up the odds of lynching Mafia on the first night, directly in response to early random votes. I didn't think you were trying to push for a no vote, I was just concerned about the possibility.

It didn't feel like you were asking for clarity it felt like you were trying to bait a "new player" into saying yes to a dumb question.

p.s.
I like how you waited for Werekill my "joke vote" before piling on.

 

[<π]

<π you never answered me on why you brought up meta early (115), but that really isn’t important as a whole. We haven’t heard anything from you since you posted your reads. I think now is an important time to see if you have any updated stances on anything. When it comes to the overall feel of everyone, your list is the one I think I disagree with the most. I don’t really know why you feel that way about any of your reads. It kinda seems like your scum reads are based on the fact that they are active and that's about all I see from your posts? Where do you stand right now? Who do you think is a good candidate?

Yes I was trying to get an idea of peoples play style when they are playing to win. I went into detail about how I played because felt like I had nothing to hide.

 

[<π]

My Rockin Vote isn't a joke vote any more.
My suspicion is Rockin and SB or Rockin and Werekill are scum and one of the two is trying to pressure people off of Rockin. They've both asked multiple times about explaining the vote, it feels to me like they are trying to scare me off.
But at the same time by their own admission its day 1... you are essentially voting at random. My 20% power vote isn't even threatening on its own, but when Rockin got up to 3 votes thats when they started pushing again.

Even Rockin hasn't questioned the vote as far as I have read.

 

[<π]

I've gotta run to work. Can some one tally everyone personal scum pool and town pool. I think worst case we just vote out who ever is one everyones list by the end of the day.

I won't be extremely active until right before the cut off.

My guess now are

Scum: SB, Rockin, Medi
Town: pythag, ---, matunas

 

[Lore]

My Rockin Vote isn't a joke vote any more.
My suspicion is Rockin and SB or Rockin and Werekill are scum and one of the two is trying to pressure people off of Rockin. They've both asked multiple times about explaining the vote, it feels to me like they are trying to scare me off.
But at the same time by their own admission its day 1... you are essentially voting at random. My 20% power vote isn't even threatening on its own, but when Rockin got up to 3 votes thats when they started pushing again.

Even Rockin hasn't questioned the vote as far as I have read.

Lmao the hell? My vote has remained on Rockin. Boy I sure am bullying people off Rockin, eh?

Asking for your joke vote to either be elaborated or dropped isn't bullying in the slightest. This post is weirdly defensive. Like why are you going so hard on defending your vote, saying that people were trying to bully you off the vote? We just wanted a simple explanation as to why your initially-joke vote remained on Rockin.

You and Rockin are definitely my two lynch pool candidates, even more so after this weird post from you. My vote remains on Rockin, pending a reread, but I'd gladly swap to your wagon and/or hammer toDay.

It's Day 1 though, which I still hate. I've got solid scum leans on both of you, but it's always weird picking D1 lynches.


Rockin Your last post eases some things, but your behavior earlier still remains a bit strange to me, no offense. I'd like to keep you in my D1 lynch pool, along with <pi.

Medi is still not exactly the best, but I think he's solid enough to make me not want him gone toDay. I'd rather narrow my pool than fill the thread with noise about getting rid of 3+ players.

 

[TewnLeenk]

TewnLeenk , I think your post on reads was a good first real impression for me. But you still haven’t posted a ton of info as a whole. How do you feel moving into the end of D1? Any thoughts on other’s reads?

So far I've found this first day to be a weird one, but also a good learning experience. Accusations are being thrown out without much to go off of, but I guess that's just the way it goes when we don't really have much to work with. Right now I'm more focusing on people who are saying things that seem off/defensive to me. I generally agree with a lot of the reads people have posted so far based off of what we know.

I will say that <pi is standing out to me big time. The general defensiveness and the joke/not joke vote has kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

VOTE: <pi

 

[TewnLeenk]

Also I'm super ****ing sick today, so I'm sorry in advance if my activity is low

 

[Lore]

Sorry to hear you're sick, Tewn.

After a reread, I do think that Rockin is less fishy than <pi, for all the reasons I've previously stated. This seems to be the best D1 lynch.

Vote: <pi

I'll be real here and say that my Rockin vote also had a bit of OMGUS behind it, particularly with the asking me to hold off on posting. I still have a scum lean on Rockin, but I want to recognize my bias instead of pushing an emotional lynch.

<pi, on the other hand, refused to explain their joke vote until waaay late, had a similar hesitancy against my early voting, and he had a weird af defense towards his joke vote. "Bullying people off the vote" didn't really make much sense.

 

[Lore]

For --- I'm still leaning to my "Vanilla Town making a Gambit" read. The gut feeling is strong on this one, unless someone can convincingly tell me why Scum would make a poor gambit like this so early.

Ninja edit: Just quickly reread the page and noticed that <pi has --- listed as town, among yet another list without clarifications. Just a list of names with no real context. I think I'm further settled on my vote for him.

 

[<π]

Sorry, I am being defensive I dont want to die day one. That would suck, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I ask that you keep in mind my "joke vote" became a real vote long before today. This morning before work was just the first time I was able to clarify my logic. It was just lost in a miss quoted string mid yesterday. Post number #147

 

[<π]

Also I'm posting from a phone :/

 

[Strong Badam]

pi / Strong bad.
I'm not crazy about how either of you argue, there's aggression there, and I feel like it's based off of out of context things, or rather, proof-texting each others posts, to try to make it say what you want. I don't think both y'all are scum, but at this point I do think one of you is.

For what it's worth, I feel like my posting style is pretty straight to the point. I quote things I find objectionable and ask for clarification/explain that something seems off. If I'm quoting a portion of a larger post, it usually means I didn't find anything weird or objectionable about the rest of their post. Like how I'm doing now! There are some exceptions, like if I'm just busy and I want to only reply to things I find really important to the game state
If the player pool would prefer me to respond to the larger body of text when possible, I'm happy to do my best to oblige.

--- , at this point we have the most information about you. If it was a claim of sorts, either falsely laid or serious, that is a lot of information. Making it easy to keep on eye on what you say or do from here. For this reason I wouldn't want to get rid of you on D1.

This is a really good point IMO, if --- is really scum then it'll be easy to take a look back on his behavior after kills flip and/or we get a strong role claim on him from a townie. No one has counterclaimed Neapolitan yet, but here are just two possibilities.
1. There is no Neapolitan in this game
2. That Neapolitan is holding off to prevent themselves being a target before even using their ability N1.
I think most of what you say elsewhere is reasonable or I can see where you're coming from. If I'm being honest though, I think on a re-read of the past 24 hours or so, you are scumlean at the moment from my perspective, for a few reasons. We'll wait to see what comes out of the first night though since <pi is still my D1 lynch pick.

Some other folks have dropped something to the tune of "SB leans slight scum but he's really active so I'd be hesitant to D1 lynch him." That's pretty reasonable to me. What I really want to accomplish Day 1 as town is to promote a TON of discussion so that we have a lot of stuff to reference back to when we have solid information later.

<Pi has stated some stuff about me on this page but I've already replied to most of it on previous pages. The weirdest thing about his recent scumread list (#190) is it changed a lot from [url=https://smashboards.com/threads/tomafia-4-day-1-ends-friday-march-29-at-5-30-cst.480848/page-4#post-23162580]post #153 without much of significance occurring involving those parties (Rockin/Werekill are not scum anymore or even on the list? Tewn/Medi aren't on the list anymore either despite being listed as scummish previously?). Not to mention still 0 reasoning, despite being asked for it on his previous list.[/url]

 

[Strong Badam]

**** me I messed up the BBCode
Post 153:

My reads

scumy: sb rockin werekill
scumish: teewn mediocre
Townish: pythag --- matunas
Towny: <3

Post #190

I've gotta run to work. Can some one tally everyone personal scum pool and town pool. I think worst case we just vote out who ever is one everyones list by the end of the day.

I won't be extremely active until right before the cut off.

My guess now are

Scum: SB, Rockin, Medi
Town: pythag, ---, matunas

And I was wrong in the above post about Rockin and Medi being missing from the list, but Werekill/Tewn are gone.
I should have just had them quoted in my post in the first place, wouldn't have made these mistakes >_>

 

[Lore]

This is a really good point IMO, if --- is really scum then it'll be easy to take a look back on his behavior after kills flip and/or we get a strong role claim on him from a townie. No one has counterclaimed Neapolitan yet, but here are just two possibilities.
1. There is no Neapolitan in this game
2. That Neapolitan is holding off to prevent themselves being a target before even using their ability N1.
I think most of what you say elsewhere is reasonable or I can see where you're coming from. If I'm being honest though, I think on a re-read of the past 24 hours or so, you are scumlean at the moment from my perspective, for a few reasons. We'll wait to see what comes out of the first night though since <pi is still my D1 lynch pick.

Ah ****, I just realized something about the setup.

The only possible game setup where there's guaranteed no neapolitan is ALSO the one where mafia is just two goons. If mafia has a single power role, neapolitan is a possibility.

Therefore it's a pretty safe fakeclaim for scum, if they have no power roles.

It looks like the same is true for Tracker if they have a Roleblocker, but if they have a rolecop, I'm not seeing any "guaranteed safe" claims.


Either way, this fact makes me a bit uneasy about ---. I want to keep a close eye on this slot post D1.