Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[Dan]

I wonder why they randomly chose DK to start giving out Stars... so random.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wonder why they randomly chose DK to start giving out Stars... so random.

I dunno. He's not a regular Mario character but part of his own series(and isn't tied in the same way Yoshi and Wario are), so felt like an easy choice to be an NPC. Toad is known for giving stars at the time, so that at least made sense.

It's probably super arbitrary.

 

[fogbadge]

toad was shown hosting the game during the treeehouse segment

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You know speaking of of our newest character added, there was actually a crossover event with Nintendo character costumes added to a Wii U version of Tekken a couple years ago.

Guess which Nintendo character was the only one on the costume list that isn't in Smash?

Not implying anything btw, just a fun bit of trivia is all.

 

[fogbadge]

You know speaking of of our newest character added, there was actually a crossover event with Nintendo character costumes added to a Wii U version of Tekken a couple years ago.

Guess which Nintendo character was the only one on the costume list that isn't in Smash?

Not implying anything btw, just a fun bit of trivia is all.

oh I know which one

it’s not an image that’s easy to forget

 

[Laniv]

Important: Toad says "Good choice!" when you choose him in Mario Golf Super Rush

ALRIGHT, ITS MIDNIGHT. U HAD UR DAY SONIC.

ITS MARIO GOLF HYPE TIME. LISTEN TO TOAD SAY “GOOOD CHOICE” WHEN U PICK HIM pic.twitter.com/q0urI14o6n

— GamesCage - Hype Guy (@GamesCage_) June 24, 2021

 

[pupNapoleon]

I COULD see Captain Toad being the final fighter (hopefully of just this pass). It isn't the newest IP, but Nintendo does seem to push new characters of theirs for this DLC. If not Dragaux or a Pokemon, and if first party, I think Captain Toad may be one of the top possibilities.

 

[fogbadge]

I COULD see Captain Toad being the final fighter (hopefully of just this pass). It isn't the newest IP, but Nintendo does seem to push new characters of theirs for this DLC. If not Dragaux or a Pokemon, and if first party, I think Captain Toad may be one of the top possibilities.

why dragaux?

 

[pupNapoleon]

why dragaux?

Ring Rit, because it is the insanely selling new IP from the Switch era.
Dragaux specifically, because he is one of three main characters in RFA, with the most unique design, potential moveset, the only memorable personality, and most iconic from the game.

 

[fogbadge]

Ring Rit, because it is the insanely selling new IP from the Switch era.
Dragaux specifically, because he is one of three main characters in RFA, with the most unique design, potential moveset, the only memorable personality, and most iconic from the game.

that’s all extremely subjective and in no ways translates to being the most likely candidate. Those are your own views

 

[pupNapoleon]

that’s all extremely subjective and in no ways translates to being the most likely candidate. Those are your own views

Well, yeah, it clearly is my opinion that it will be Dragaux. Is that something that needs to be clarified?
There are only three main characters (with side characters barely constituting secondary), and the base player has no personality at all- it could be the Adventurer, but it unquestionably is not as unique as Dragaux.
Yes, it could be the Adventurer plus the Ring (The Ring being the third character, I don't remember its name), but I personally don't think that has nearly the chance. The Adventurer is a general athlete, and it holds a ring. You can make an argument that Dragaux is not as original, but I'd like to hear it if that is your case.

As for Ring Fit Adventurer selling absurdly well, and the three Nintendo characters all being from the Switch games... those are facts.
I really don't understand about what you argue.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, yeah, it clearly is my opinion that it will be Dragaux. Is that something that needs to be clarified?
There are only three main characters (with side characters barely constituting secondary), and the base player has no personality at all- it could be the Adventurer, but it unquestionably is not as unique as Dragaux.
Yes, it could be the Adventurer plus the Ring (The Ring being the third character, I don't remember its name), but I personally don't think that has nearly the chance. The Adventurer is a general athlete, and it holds a ring. You can make an argument that Dragaux is not as original, but I'd like to hear it if that is your case.

As for Ring Fit Adventurer selling absurdly well, and the three Nintendo characters all being from the Switch games... those are facts.
I really don't understand about what you argue.

your reasons for why are all subjective youre saying hes more likely cause of the way you view him. the moves the trainer and the ring use through out the game are very different from anything weve seen in smash. dragaux is by no means more unique theres not anything that puts him ahead of the main characters. there nothing unquestionable about it its pure subjective. also you cant use lack of personality as an argument against a character, marth, robin, corrin, byleth have zero personality. not to mention all the similar avatar characters whose personality is up to player interpretation, red, villager, miis. game and watch doesnt have one and any personality rob has was invented for smash.

youre talking about your opinion of draguax as if its an undisputed fact. which it is not

 

[pupNapoleon]

your reasons for why are all subjective youre saying hes more likely cause of the way you view him. the moves the trainer and the ring use through out the game are very different from anything weve seen in smash. dragaux is by no means more unique theres not anything that puts him ahead of the main characters. there nothing unquestionable about it its pure subjective. also you cant use lack of personality as an argument against a character, marth, robin, corrin, byleth have zero personality. not to mention all the similar avatar characters whose personality is up to player interpretation, red, villager, miis. game and watch doesnt have one and any personality rob has was invented for smash.

youre talking about your opinion of draguax as if its an undisputed fact. which it is not

I don't think I'm implying anything as fact- other than the statistics I am pointing out.
Oh, and the point to which you seem to agree, that the Adventurer has no personality. Which, while not a sole factor, does play into other characters we have seen make it in, in the past.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't think I'm implying anything as fact- other than the statistics I am pointing out.
Oh, and the point to which you seem to agree, that the Adventurer has no personality. Which, while not a sole factor, does play into other characters we have seen make it in, in the past.

you said draguax is unquestionably more unique. That is stating an opinion as fact.
Sorry what character was left out cause of no personality?

 

[pupNapoleon]

you said draguax is unquestionably more unique. That is stating an opinion as fact.
Sorry what character was left out cause of no personality?

Characters ADDED FOR personality.
And if that is how my above comment was read, than I will edit it again. It was my intention to right that I started by saying ____ are my opinions.
Though yes, I do as well think, Dragaux is unquestionably more unique, with more personality. I do ask to see a debate against this, but no, it is not fact. The only thing the Ring can do is propel and suck in- which really aren't indicative of the game, if taken out of context.
The other things- turning into an oar, etc, could all easily be a part of a Dragaux moveset, as they are the exercises themselves.

 

[fogbadge]

Characters ADDED FOR personality.
And if that is how my above comment was read, than I will edit it again. It was my intention to right that I started by saying ____ are my opinions.
Though yes, I do as well think, Dragaux is unquestionably more unique, with more personality. I do ask to see a debate against this, but no, it is not fact. The only thing the Ring can do is propel and suck in- which really aren't indicative of the game, if taken out of context.
The other things- turning into an oar, etc, could all easily be a part of a Dragaux moveset, as they are the exercises themselves.

Yeah I can’t think of any of any character who was added for their personality.
Also you’re forgetting all the moves from the fights there’s so many things they can do. Also saying they could easily tag one characters moves on to another us not a strike in their favour especially if they’re up against the character who’s move it is

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah I can’t think of any of any character who was added for their personality.
Also you’re forgetting all the moves from the fights there’s so many things they can do. Also saying they could easily tag one characters moves on to another us not a strike in their favour especially if they’re up against the character who’s move it is

It would be a bit weird for the Adventurer to use the allies, since they don't in the game. Yeah, it is possible.

For Sakurai’s GDC 2008 speech, Sakurai solely focused on character choices. Source Gaming has provided a full translation of the slides Sakurai that has used. I’d also strongly encourage people who are interested in learning more about that presentation to also listen to an audio recording of Sakurai’s speech (translated into English).



Perhaps the most noteworthy part of the GDC speech and the slides, is Sakurai’s supposed rules for character selection. Please note, that the numbers were NOT present in the original image. I added them to make it easier to talk about each point. More importantly, in my original translation, I missed “only”. I bolded the word below, and added a note to the GDC slide translation. We will fix the images ASAP.

1. The character must display personality in their game

2. It’s important to have somethingonlythat character can do.

3. Potential development issues, and game balance is also taken into some consideration

4. Distribution among the franchises is also taken into consideration.

There is also an important note:

Characters are not picked at random. After fully understanding the character’s personality, development advances while taking into consideration how those characters can be fun to play in “Smash”. There are some characters that can’t join the battle, even if they meet the qualifications.

 

[fogbadge]

It would be a bit weird for the Adventurer to use the allies, since they don't in the game. Yeah, it is possible.

ok I point you to my list of characters without personality that clearly contradicts that statement. Something only that character can do is also contradicted by all the characters who use moves that other characters can and characters who borrow moves for others. Best example of this is all ten pokemon.
you can’t take sakurais words as law, the man contradicts himself all the time

 

[pupNapoleon]

ok I point you to my list of characters without personality that clearly contradicts that statement. Something only that character can do is also contradicted by all the characters who use moves that other characters can and characters who borrow moves for others. Best example of this is all ten pokemon.
you can’t take sakurais words as law, the man contradicts himself all the time

It's fine to contradict it, there are absolutely examples. But it is also stated directly to be of key importance to the additions.
It is also worth noting that in the cases where the avatar was chosen, it was primarily because they could do things that others couldn't, or simply played a vital roles in a game which no other character could fulfill (except Isabelle, but she didn't exist as the mascot at the time of Villagers inclusion).

 

[fogbadge]

It's fine to contradict it, there are absolutely examples. But it is also stated directly to be of key importance to the additions.
It is also worth noting that in the cases where the avatar was chosen, it was primarily because they could do things that others couldn't, or simply played a vital roles in a game which no other character could fulfill (except Isabelle, but she didn't exist as the mascot at the time of Villagers inclusion).

that is not even remotely true, villager, inklings both do things that’s implied everyone in their worlds can do. Most of robins spells can be used by just about any other caster. Byleths is almost entirely taken from other characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

that is not even remotely true, villager, inklings both do things that’s implied everyone in their worlds can do. Most of robins spells can be used by just about any other caster. Byleths is almost entirely taken from other characters.

Byleth can use all the weapons, Inkling is the character (whereas, there isn't another character...they and the Octolings are the only ones that actually use Ink, as far as we see in game), Villager ...see my comment above on Isabelle. Robin seemed to be the only main character that wasn't Chrom or Lucina (echoes).

 

[fogbadge]

Byleth can use all the weapons, Inkling is the character (whereas, there isn't another character...they and the Octolings are the only ones that actually use Ink, as far as we see in game), Villager ...see my comment above on Isabelle. Robin seemed to be the only main character that wasn't Chrom or Lucina (echoes).

no splatoon has plenty of characters who talk about taking part in reef wars and using all the stuff the player can. Isabelle not being there at the time is meaningless as there are plenty of other characters who would fill the role that your logic uses, see Tom nook the other mascot. What does robins status have to do with it? He still uses moves that others can.

 

[pupNapoleon]

no splatoon has plenty of characters who talk about taking part in reef wars and using all the stuff the player can. Isabelle not being there at the time is meaningless as there are plenty of other characters who would fill the role that your logic uses, see Tom nook the other mascot. What does robins status have to do with it? He still uses moves that others can.

They're all incredibly different to me, so we can just agree to disagree and get back on topic.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uhhhh, Villager represents the core playstyle of what Animal Crossing is. The original mascot is Tom Nook(who didn't get in first. It wasn't till New Leaf and once the Welcome Amiibo update came along that Isabelle was the new mascot. It wasn't an instant thing. It took time to change it. She got her own game too, and was part of Amiibo Festival. Then New Horizons gave Tom Nook back his big role and put Isabelle to the postgame, so a lesser role. Tom Nook hardly got his mascot status back, but they clearly are showing both are important in their own way. Villager naturally is too). It's not simply about mascots. There's protagonists to consider, quite consistently.

But yeah, Villager at most does things slightly differently(like catch people instead of Bugs in their Net), and use items for attacks. Except the Axe. It's actually used rather accurately from the game. The tree falling, though. Albeit, the slingshot isn't actually used differently. It just hits characters instead of balloons. Balloon Fight, their Up B, is a reference to Balloon Fight itself being in the GameCube game as one of the various playable NES games. This may also be the case for their Boxing Glove attacks, but that also could be a reference to the various Boxing Sports items in the game. A potted plant breaking isn't an item that doesn't exist, it's just not used that way.

More or less, Villager isn't given things that don't exist, they're just made into "fighting attacks" for most of them. I've played each game. You can find pretty much all the items/alt colors within the series. Isabelle might be different, but I don't know where her Up B comes from. Maybe it's from Amiibo Festival(I know her toy hammer is from there). Maybe it's just a unique flavor move created wholesale. The balloons do exist in the games, as does that type of bench. I feel it's a stretch to say it's directly trying to take things from the game, though.

Besides, Villager was considered by Brawl, before Isabelle ever existed. As I said, Tom Nook, the original mascot, was ignored for this. Besides, let's be real; the reason Isabelle even works right now in Smash is because she's a semi-clone of Villager. It's not that she couldn't earn her spot, but her current moveset reflects upon being a retake on Villager's. There's really no way to know what she would've done if she couldn't be a semi-clone. That also means he would've had to wait till Ultimate to even add an AC character. And the main character still makes sense to do so first(not that the mascot is undeservng by any means!), since the point was clearly to represent the various unique stuff from the game. I can't even imagine how different Isabelle would be. Pocket? She doesn't really pocket stuff as is, but does give items enough to justify that one. She probably wouldn't have her current Up B, since it was meant to be based upon Villager's. Fishing Rod would've came out of nowhere, since she never uses it. Gyroid is close enough to something related to her, so you can pay for her work projects. She uses a Toy Axe otherwise, so the tree cutting still is somewhat workable. The random items she'd be using otherwise has little to do with her. They just didn't need changing from Villager since they were generic enough. But when you look at the concept of her not being a semi-clone, stuff can stick out way more.

So yeah, I'd expect her to be wayyyyyyyy different if she didn't have the semi-clone status. Honestly, it's good Villager got in first. This allowed Isabelle to have a coherent and fun moveset that represented her personality well.

 

[fogbadge]

They're all incredibly different to me, so we can just agree to disagree and get back on topic.

if you wanna cling on to your warped logic go ahead

Uhhhh, Villager represents the core playstyle of what Animal Crossing is. The original mascot is Tom Nook(who didn't get in first. It wasn't till New Leaf and once the Welcome Amiibo update came along that Isabelle was the new mascot. It wasn't an instant thing. It took time to change it. She got her own game too, and was part of Amiibo Festival. Then New Horizons gave Tom Nook back his big role and put Isabelle to the postgame, so a lesser role. Tom Nook hardly got his mascot status back, but they clearly are showing both are important in their own way. Villager naturally is too). It's not simply about mascots. There's protagonists to consider, quite consistently.

But yeah, Villager at most does things slightly differently(like catch people instead of Bugs in their Net), and use items for attacks. Except the Axe. It's actually used rather accurately from the game. The tree falling, though. Albeit, the slingshot isn't actually used differently. It just hits characters instead of balloons. Balloon Fight, their Up B, is a reference to Balloon Fight itself being in the GameCube game as one of the various playable NES games. This may also be the case for their Boxing Glove attacks, but that also could be a reference to the various Boxing Sports items in the game. A potted plant breaking isn't an item that doesn't exist, it's just not used that way.

More or less, Villager isn't given things that don't exist, they're just made into "fighting attacks" for most of them. I've played each game. You can find pretty much all the items/alt colors within the series. Isabelle might be different, but I don't know where her Up B comes from. Maybe it's from Amiibo Festival(I know her toy hammer is from there). Maybe it's just a unique flavor move created wholesale. The balloons do exist in the games, as does that type of bench. I feel it's a stretch to say it's directly trying to take things from the game, though.

Besides, Villager was considered by Brawl, before Isabelle ever existed. As I said, Tom Nook, the original mascot, was ignored for this. Besides, let's be real; the reason Isabelle even works right now in Smash is because she's a semi-clone of Villager. It's not that she couldn't earn her spot, but her current moveset reflects upon being a retake on Villager's. There's really no way to know what she would've done if she couldn't be a semi-clone. That also means he would've had to wait till Ultimate to even add an AC character. And the main character still makes sense to do so first(not that the mascot is undeservng by any means!), since the point was clearly to represent the various unique stuff from the game. I can't even imagine how different Isabelle would be. Pocket? She doesn't really pocket stuff as is, but does give items enough to justify that one. She probably wouldn't have her current Up B, since it was meant to be based upon Villager's. Fishing Rod would've came out of nowhere, since she never uses it. Gyroid is close enough to something related to her, so you can pay for her work projects. She uses a Toy Axe otherwise, so the tree cutting still is somewhat workable. The random items she'd be using otherwise has little to do with her. They just didn't need changing from Villager since they were generic enough. But when you look at the concept of her not being a semi-clone, stuff can stick out way more.

So yeah, I'd expect her to be wayyyyyyyy different if she didn't have the semi-clone status. Honestly, it's good Villager got in first. This allowed Isabelle to have a coherent and fun moveset that represented her personality well.

if youll excuse pure pedantry but the toy hammer was in new leaf. also in amiibo festival isabelle is shown to do many of these things, fishing rod, pocketing items, the bug net etc. its just the bench attached to the balloons and using lloid as a rocket that seems to be made up, though arguably theyre just variations of villagers moves

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

if youll excuse pure pedantry but the toy hammer was in new leaf. also in amiibo festival isabelle is shown to do many of these things, fishing rod, pocketing items, the bug net etc. its just the bench attached to the balloons and using lloid as a rocket that seems to be made up, though arguably theyre just variations of villagers moves

Huh, I only remember the Toy Hammer from Amiibo Festival. And yeah, they did a good job retooling Villager~

 

[fogbadge]

Huh, I only remember the Toy Hammer from Amiibo Festival. And yeah, they did a good job retooling Villager~

well the toy hammer is only in the one island tour so it’s easy to forget

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well the toy hammer is only in the one island tour so it’s easy to forget

Makes sense. I don't remember how it's used in the island tour. In Amiibo Festival, it's part of mini-games too, so it's technically used "violently" as much as you can without being more than cartoony. But then again, it's a Mario Party-like game. They always have tons of cartoony violence, so.

 

[fogbadge]

Makes sense. I don't remember how it's used in the island tour. In Amiibo Festival, it's part of mini-games too, so it's technically used "violently" as much as you can without being more than cartoony. But then again, it's a Mario Party-like game. They always have tons of cartoony violence, so.

the tour in question was everyone trying to break a cornimer robot with the toy hammers. You could also buy one from the island store which didn’t really do anything

 

[pupNapoleon]

if you wanna cling on to your warped logic go ahead

No, I'm just tired of your trite arguments and intentional ignorance to what I'm bringing to you. Now, we are done, before the mods make us done.

 

[fogbadge]

No, I'm just tired of your trite arguments and intentional ignorance to what I'm bringing to you. Now, we are done, before the mods make us done.

intentional ignorance? Oh excuse me if I don’t buy in to your double standard. Who on earth do you think you are? You’re treating your own interpretations as fact and every time I point out a flaw in your argument you say it’s an exception. Don’t tell me I’m being intentionally ignorant when you’re own logic contradicts itself

 

[pupNapoleon]

intentional ignorance? Oh excuse me if I don’t buy in to your double standard

Here is your bait_______________________________________here is where I am.

 

[fogbadge]

Here is your bait_______________________________________here is where I am.

Kindly take your trolling out of the thread

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mayyyyybe we should move on. This is just becoming more of a flame war than an actual proper debate.

If you're calling people names, it's no longer a proper debate.

Anyway, I actually should look into getting Kart Fighter. Bootleg games can be fun. I think it's an SNES one, being that it's just Street Fighter II with Super Mario Kart characters. I could look into Toad's animations and see how much stuff can be loosely transferred over to make a cool and unique moveset.

I mean, it might not work. But you could still have similar stuff. I.E. Hadouken changed out for the Green Shell or another official Mario series projectile. There's tons of Fireballs itself, besides just from the Fire Flower(which works entirely differently in Smash. Only Mario/Luigi use the Fire Flower power-up as a normalish animation).

 

[pupNapoleon]

Kindly take your trolling out of the thread

That's the definition of hypocritical.

Mayyyyybe we should move on. This is just becoming more of a flame war than an actual proper debate.

If you're calling people names, it's no longer a proper debate.

Anyway, I actually should look into getting Kart Fighter. Bootleg games can be fun. I think it's an SNES one, being that it's just Street Fighter II with Super Mario Kart characters. I could look into Toad's animations and see how much stuff can be loosely transferred over to make a cool and unique moveset.

I mean, it might not work. But you could still have similar stuff. I.E. Hadouken changed out for the Green Shell or another official Mario series projectile. There's tons of Fireballs itself, besides just from the Fire Flower(which works entirely differently in Smash. Only Mario/Luigi use the Fire Flower power-up as a normalish animation).

What is this game of which you speak? It is reminding me of that Mortal Kombat Kart minigame... which I swear was a real thing...right?

 

[fogbadge]

That's the definition of hypocritical.

No sunshine the definition of hypocritical is holding up sakurais claim of something only they can do not long after saying one character could take a move from someone else. You’re the one refusing to back up their logic and just telling me I’m wrong without explanation. So you are the troll

Mayyyyybe we should move on. This is just becoming more of a flame war than an actual proper debate.

If you're calling people names, it's no longer a proper debate.

Anyway, I actually should look into getting Kart Fighter. Bootleg games can be fun. I think it's an SNES one, being that it's just Street Fighter II with Super Mario Kart characters. I could look into Toad's animations and see how much stuff can be loosely transferred over to make a cool and unique moveset.

I mean, it might not work. But you could still have similar stuff. I.E. Hadouken changed out for the Green Shell or another official Mario series projectile. There's tons of Fireballs itself, besides just from the Fire Flower(which works entirely differently in Smash. Only Mario/Luigi use the Fire Flower power-up as a normalish animation).

I’m sorry I can’t help but get annoyed at people who tell me I’m being trite simply for not agreeing with them

 

[pupNapoleon]

No sunshine the definition of hypocritical is holding up sakurais claim of something only they can do not long after saying one character could take a move from someone else. You’re the one refusing to back up their logic and just telling me I’m wrong without explanation. So you are the troll




I’m sorry I can’t help but get annoyed at people who tell me I’m being trite simply for not agreeing with them

I called you willfully ignorant because you refused to respond to evidence I presented, and decided to get aggressive on a personal level. You continue to respond, and bait for a response, which you are no longer getting on this thread, because you cannot seem to converse at a mature level.
Now, for the third time, stop quoting me. If you wish to discuss this further, message me.


MOVING ON-

who thinks we will get another Captain Toad game? I never bought the ports, but I did buy and love the original.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m sorry I can’t help but get annoyed at people who tell me I’m being trite simply for not agreeing with them

Just report it instead. Otherwise it never ends.

I reported it since it was clear it wasn't ending. That should fix the entire issue anyway.

 

[fogbadge]

I called you willfully ignorant because you refused to respond to evidence I presented, and decided to get aggressive on a personal level. You continue to respond, and bait for a response, which you are no longer getting on this thread, because you cannot seem to converse at a mature level.
Now, for the third time, stop quoting me. If you wish to discuss this further, message me.

now you are just lying. i responded to each and every piece of "evidence" with a counter argument. you are the one who started with the name calling, youre the one who stopped debating. dont you dare twist your own logic to make your fellow users look bad

You can... report the issue instead.

i did. as soon as he started getting nasty

 

[pupNapoleon]

Anyone else want to get back to discuss Captain Toad?