Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
13,563
NNID
Arcadenik
So while I think Captain Toad is in somewhat better standings over regular Toad(I do treat them as separate people and separate characters, but eh)
Even if they are two separate characters, it is irrelevant since alternate costumes exist (Koopalings, Dragon Quest Heroes) so both Toad and Captain Toad can get in and share a slot/number. Toadette can be an Echo Fighter with a different Final Smash that involves Peachette (knowing Sakurai, it probably would be Peach’s Final Smash but with edible mushrooms).

it's important he has to find something they and only they can do. Truthfully, for regular Toad, what exact unique abilities does he have in the actual games that the other characters don't?
Toad might as well get the same abilities Mario and Luigi use in Mario games but not in Smash games.

Propeller Mushroom from NSMBWii and NSMBU. Mario and Luigi don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? It also fits Toad’s mushroom theme.

Picking up and carrying enemies from SMB2 and many games after SMB2. Mario and Luigi don’t do that in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? Toad even had his own game that was all about picking up and carrying enemies (Wario’s Woods). It also would pay homage to Toad’s rumored superhuman strength (mentioned in Toad’s trophies in Melee and Brawl). He inherited it from Papa from Doki Doki Panic (Peach inherited Lina’s floating jumps and used that ability in Smash).

Double Cherry from SM3DW. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Rosalina don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? It fits Toad more than it fits the others because it was in Toad’s own game. Toad could use it to summon a temporary Nana (a second Toad) and they could work together as a team until the clone falls off the stage or gets enough damage.

Spoiler for Super Mario Maker 2
Super Hammer from Super Mario Maker 2. Mario and Luigi don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? Or better yet, give Toad the abilities Builder Mario had... like breaking blocks with the hammer... or we make it fit Toad more by replacing the hammer with the pickax and it still does the same thing. Toad could break shields with the pickax!

Oh! And Builder Mario could make blocks appear out of thin air and throw them. So why not have Toad pull Mushroom Blocks from SMB2 (again, it fits Toad’s mushroom theme) out of thin air and throw them around? The Mushroom Blocks could block projectiles like they did with Birdo’s projectiles in SMB2.
 

Ahm Skittish!

View The Rainbow
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,906
Location
Hoenn
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Even if they are two separate characters, it is irrelevant since alternate costumes exist (Koopalings, Dragon Quest Heroes) so both Toad and Captain Toad can get in and share a slot/number. Toadette can be an Echo Fighter with a different Final Smash that involves Peachette (knowing Sakurai, it probably would be Peach’s Final Smash but with edible mushrooms).
Eh, no thanks to the Captain Toad costumes. They're beyond different and it feels like a way to shoehorn the Captain in instead of letting him stand on his own two feet(incidentally, he stands pretty well :p). Captain and regular Toad are immensely different characters. It's more like Detective Pikachu, who pretty much is not close to being similar to regular Pikachu. The Koopalings, like Alph, are actually similar in what they do within the Koopa Clown Car, and many of them can use the Car as is. Ones like Pikachu Libre actually can do a lot of what Pikachu does, but also isn't really intended to be as hyper different as some of the other special costumes among the female Pikachus. That one makes sense. Pikachu was always somewhat of a wrestler in the way it could fight in the anime. Toadette would make a better costume in comparison, but I do like the idea of her being an Echo.

Plus, you already know my stance on Captain Toad. I won't really get into it much at all, as I'm not going to try and do another circular debate. I don't deny his actual uniqueness(something Toad lacks in standing out in comparison).

Toad might as well get the same abilities Mario and Luigi use in Mario games but not in Smash games.

Propeller Mushroom from NSMBWii and NSMBU. Mario and Luigi don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? It also fits Toad’s mushroom theme.

Picking up and carrying enemies from SMB2 and many games after SMB2. Mario and Luigi don’t do that in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? Toad even had his own game that was all about picking up and carrying enemies (Wario’s Woods). It also would pay homage to Toad’s rumored superhuman strength (mentioned in Toad’s trophies in Melee and Brawl). He inherited it from Papa from Doki Doki Panic (Peach inherited Lina’s floating jumps and used that ability in Smash).

Double Cherry from SM3DW. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Rosalina don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? It fits Toad more than it fits the others because it was in Toad’s own game. Toad could use it to summon a temporary Nana (a second Toad) and they could work together as a team until the clone falls off the stage or gets enough damage.

Spoiler for Super Mario Maker 2
Super Hammer from Super Mario Maker 2. Mario and Luigi don’t use them in Smash. Why not give that to Toad? Or better yet, give Toad the abilities Builder Mario had... like breaking blocks with the hammer... or we make it fit Toad more by replacing the hammer with the pickax and it still does the same thing. Toad could break shields with the pickax!

Oh! And Builder Mario could make blocks appear out of thin air and throw them. So why not have Toad pull Mushroom Blocks from SMB2 (again, it fits Toad’s mushroom theme) out of thin air and throw them around? The Mushroom Blocks could block projectiles like they did with Birdo’s projectiles in SMB2.
You'e missing the point of "they and only they can do." It means an ability specific to Toad or the Toad race. That's what they need. Not something tons of Mario characters can do. It's not an actual stand-out. There's some cool items, but it really doesn't tell us only they can do that alone. Process of elimination doesn't really seem to cut it for Sakurai either. Which feels a bit silly, but I do see what he's saying in this case. Propeller Musrhrooms are not Toad-specific abilities at all. It needs to be something nobody else can do. Like if NSMB did something better and gave items/abilities to specific members, like Toad/Toadette got a very specific set, while Mario/Luigi got their own. Then that's a true stand-out. I'm not saying I disagree with your idea at all. I love 'em. But I don't think they fit what Sakurai means. If you look at it, there's no denying the PP race outright had abilities that nobody else can do. That's a key factor that helped get it in. Toad needs that alone.

You can apply the same things to the others. Peach, Mario, and Luigi does all those neat things in SMB2USA. Just cause they don't do them in Smash doesn't mean they can't ever do them on its own. So if you look at Toad, you realize that he's... the same guy as them, with slightly different jump abilities. One thing to note about Peach in Smash is she had more than just her float ability. She had her Golf, Tennis Racket, and her Fan from SMRPG. And that's the thing, she had the Fan alone. Even then, there's no denying that she's a completely different design and can't easily use the same moveset in Smash while standing out. Taking a look at Toad, his abilities don't currently differentiate from the Mario Bros. alone. Of course, it'd have been neat if he got in as a clone at some point, but it's probably the bodyframe combined with the silly idea he has to be Peach's bodyguard.

Or basically, if you give him just the abilities of Mario and Luigi, it lacks the actual factor of "something Toad and only Toad can do", something Sakurai has made clear he looks for in a newcomer. Clones are an obvious exception, but that's pretty much it. It's why a lot of characters have some rather unique mechanics.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

♫~ WA-HAY! ~♫
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,771
Location
Jiggin' It On Spiral Mountain
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
NNID
IndyGo98
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
guys guys please let us not bicker about how toad/cap/toadette should play in smash, lets just worry about who else will be put in first


Anyway, Ahm Skittish! Ahm Skittish! brought very strong point on Toad so far as to why he might perhaps been passed over so many times by now - probably something we all should look to as to explore him being a stand-out fighter in Smash-series. Whether or not Plant would have been included in Ultimate, we still were in same position already back in 4.

It's why I've felt it bit "meh" on Toad more or less using power-ups on from Mario-games as part of his moveset, as seen in various suggestions or even fan-made ones like the recent PM!-one or lesser extent, the one from Crusade, as it does emphasize too much on Toad being stand-in NPC to fill various roles via using things anyone in Mario-verse can more or less - instead of having something innate and iconic to himself that'd make him stand out and bring something to Smash (i.e - Bandanna Dee's Spear or Dixie's Ponytail.

It's kinda weird to note how somewhat specific it might get to dig to his unique abilities - at best I feel the idea of him being lightning bruiser with grappling-based playstyled lifted from his grabbing/pickup-based abilities that got expanded on from SMB2 to Wario's Woods, could give some way to make him unique from Mario's current cast.

Or maybe if to emphasize on his overall affinity with Mario-powerups, he could perhaps bring in ones that aren't seen in Smash, and instead use them in more unorthodox ways, especially if he could also pick them from the ground like in SMB2/Captain Toad. Maybe expanding on his ability to grow mushrooms via his spores as seen in Mario Sports Mix? Spitballing.



I feel Propeller Hat might be closest exception for Toad could use for the Up Special due being somewhat associated with his NSMB-outings and be perhaps reworked from K.Rool's Helipack, though having additional functions. But still, it's rather noteworthy to think about if Toad so far has been understandably not brought in due not having much noteworthy on him to stand out, especially next to other Mario-characters aside from his iconic character and standing in the series.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,541
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
It's why I've felt it bit "meh" on Toad more or less using power-ups on from Mario-games as part of his moveset, as seen in various suggestions or even fan-made ones like the recent PM!-one or lesser extent, the one from Crusade, as it does emphasize too much on Toad being stand-in NPC to fill various roles via using things anyone in Mario-verse can more or less - instead of having something innate and iconic to himself that'd make him stand out and bring something to Smash (i.e - Bandanna Dee's Spear or Dixie's Ponytail.

Okay, just like Toad in Mario Tennis Aces, let's flip the ideas for Toad on it's head.

What is Toad known for?

No wrong answers here; let's get a discussion going and list things Toads known for.

No dour nonsense from the Brigade like 'never being in Smash' though thank you very much. Let's break Toad down as a character and see what options we have as a focus for our Mushroom Man of the Moment!
 

jreed3842

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
131
Okay, just like Toad in Mario Tennis Aces, let's flip the ideas for Toad on it's head.

What is Toad known for?

No wrong answers here; let's get a discussion going and list things Toads known for.

No dour nonsense from the Brigade like 'never being in Smash' though thank you very much. Let's break Toad down as a character and see what options we have as a focus for our Mushroom Man of the Moment!
To me Toad is know for:
Being the host for party games
Being the Item Supplier for Platformers.
Being the item shop runner.
Being an NPC you can talk to to get tips or hints.

So he’s really well-known for a lot of support roles.

I also recognize Toad as being very strong and very fast as evidenced in Mario Bros 2 and 3D World.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
Okay, just like Toad in Mario Tennis Aces, let's flip the ideas for Toad on it's head.

What is Toad known for?

No wrong answers here; let's get a discussion going and list things Toads known for.

No dour nonsense from the Brigade like 'never being in Smash' though thank you very much. Let's break Toad down as a character and see what options we have as a focus for our Mushroom Man of the Moment!
being pure AWESOME!

hmm? to the general gaming community? oh well i imagine hes certainly in the running for most famous supporting ncp
 

Ahm Skittish!

View The Rainbow
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,906
Location
Hoenn
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
...To be fair, the most supporting NPC literally has a role where he's an NPC who heavily supports a character. So it's... kind of accurate in that sense?

There's gotta be a bigger defining feature of him than literally being in a supporting role. At least something he does that nobody else does. Outside of Smash's spores, anyway.

Though at least Captain Toad stands out from the separated regular Toad, so that's a thing to work with. Not just the costume, though I haven't played Captain Toad, so I don't know his stand-out abilities.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
...To be fair, the most supporting NPC literally has a role where he's an NPC who heavily supports a character. So it's... kind of accurate in that sense?

There's gotta be a bigger defining feature of him than literally being in a supporting role. At least something he does that nobody else does. Outside of Smash's spores, anyway.

Though at least Captain Toad stands out from the separated regular Toad, so that's a thing to work with. Not just the costume, though I haven't played Captain Toad, so I don't know his stand-out abilities.
its hard to narrow down his main trait when hes played so many different roles through out the series, people must know him as a very familiar face from the mario series at least (hes always in mario kart and those are huge on their own as you all know) which i think makes him a gaming icon in his own right
 

Ahm Skittish!

View The Rainbow
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,906
Location
Hoenn
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
its hard to narrow down his main trait when hes played so many different roles through out the series, people must know him as a very familiar face from the mario series at least (hes always in mario kart and those are huge on their own as you all know) which i think makes him a gaming icon in his own right
To be fair, I don't think anyone is questioning otherwise. Though the twist is that despite Captain Toad being more "defined" instead of a species, Toad is still vastly more known.

The issue was "something he and only he can do" which is what many believe Sakurai is looking for, due to his previous statements on character selection. Though that makes me worried he thinks a unique mechanic would be necessary too. :/
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
To be fair, I don't think anyone is questioning otherwise. Though the twist is that despite Captain Toad being more "defined" instead of a species, Toad is still vastly more known.

The issue was "something he and only he can do" which is what many believe Sakurai is looking for, due to his previous statements on character selection. Though that makes me worried he thinks a unique mechanic would be necessary too. :/
oh right i must have misinterpreted it then
 

Lenidem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
147
Okay, just like Toad in Mario Tennis Aces, let's flip the ideas for Toad on it's head.

What is Toad known for?

No wrong answers here; let's get a discussion going and list things Toads known for.

No dour nonsense from the Brigade like 'never being in Smash' though thank you very much. Let's break Toad down as a character and see what options we have as a focus for our Mushroom Man of the Moment!
''Our princess is in another castle...''

If he ever gets in, this MUST be one of his taunts!
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
11,899
Location
Somewhere in the West.
To be fair, I don't think anyone is questioning otherwise. Though the twist is that despite Captain Toad being more "defined" instead of a species, Toad is still vastly more known.

The issue was "something he and only he can do" which is what many believe Sakurai is looking for, due to his previous statements on character selection. Though that makes me worried he thinks a unique mechanic would be necessary too. :/
Then there needs to be a Treasure Tracker sequel, that helps characters get in easier, if nothing else.
 

Ahm Skittish!

View The Rainbow
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,906
Location
Hoenn
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791

Propeller Toad

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
462
Okay, just like Toad in Mario Tennis Aces, let's flip the ideas for Toad on it's head.

What is Toad known for?

No wrong answers here; let's get a discussion going and list things Toads known for.

No dour nonsense from the Brigade like 'never being in Smash' though thank you very much. Let's break Toad down as a character and see what options we have as a focus for our Mushroom Man of the Moment!
Good question. I suppose this is where varying perceptions of Toad stem from as we all had very different experiences with the countless Mario titles that have been released over the years. Personally, I still see Toad (and the greater spectrum of Toads as a whole) as a hero and one of the major protagonists in the Super Mario games right after Mario, Luigi and the Princess. Toad(s) is defined as Peach's loyal subject/guard who would do anything for her regardless of his fears. It's a bit confusing at times as we have many characters from Luigi/Peach/Yoshi/etc that have been imprisoned by Bowser's forces and seem nearly useless or cowardly in game much like the Toads; however, I assume this was always done in order to avoid giving the supporting cast too much of a focus compared to Mario.

Got some long text below, so for those willing - be prepared :p :

Early years as both a protagonist and a support:
While growing up, SMB2 and Wario's Woods were both games that I was introduced to at a young age and were some of my earliest exposure to the series as a whole; thus, I viewed Toad as a major hero character as opposed to being a supporting cast member. Incredibly fast, strong superhuman strength to carry stacks of enemies, and abysmal jumps were defining characters of Toad to me from these titles. Even if these traits hailed from Papa in Doki Doki Panic, many of the character abilities from SMB2 stuck for both Luigi and Peach as well as Toad's own great speed in future titles like SM3DW and SMR. In SMB2, we have the Mushroom Retainers giving off their iconic quote while in SMB3, Toad is right there as one of Mario's few allies to assist him with the Toad House mechanic throughout the game. For a NPC role, this was pretty big back in the day as Toad was one of the very few friendly faces you'd see whether it was through the Toad Houses or his kidnapped companions in the original game.

Supporting cast and mascot status:
To me, the Toads can be considered mascots the of Mushroom Kingdom and to a further extent, the Super Mario series as a whole. That's not to dissuade Mario's importance as he is of course the titular star along with major players like Luigi, Bowser, and Peach appearing consistently. However, much like these characters - Toad and his race of mushroom headed pals provide a strong sense of reminding me that I am still playing a Mushroom Kingdom-inspired game. Simple character design that emphasizes an enlarged mushroom head and iconic smile - Toad strikes me as a mascot character. This is why it's odd for me to see Smash Bros not have Toad in the roster as he represents the essence of the Mushroom Kingdom as a whole with his friendly mushroom-headed demeanor, multiple occasions as a playable hero, and supporting roles throughout the history of the series.

Even titles like Super Mario Sunshine/SMG that stray away from the Mushroom Kingdom, we still have characters like the Toad Brigade appearing for a sense of comic relief and relief as we (Mario/Luigi) are not alone in trying to save the kingdom(s). Toad and his friends may not be playable in such titles; however, they still reappear constantly in these supporting roles. The five Toads could very well not have appeared in Sunshine and few would bat an eye (they're not enemy characters nor are they major npcs in this game); however, we still got them to keep company to Peach and perhaps as a throwback to Mario and Peach coming from the Mushroom Kingdom.

To date, I believe SMW and SML/2 are the only titles that did not feature Toads in any shape - these titles are also quite older as well, since then we have received Toads in nearly every Super Mario title in some shape or form (even NSMB DS featured Toadsworth and had Toads in the mini-games). While Goombas and Koopas have likewise also become iconic and appeared in most titles, they are enemy characters that serve some type of gameplay obstacle - Toads did not have to appear in every game on the otherhand, but they constantly do regardless and often play the role of an item house keeper, friendly face, or provide tips throughout the game when not playable. We have seen an increase in the roles of Toads as well in recent titles since NSMB Wii as well.

Later Super Mario titles:
Toads are becoming a major force in the Mario games since NSMB Wii where we have received two playable Toads (Blue Toad and Yellow Toad) in the multiplayer mode. Outside of NSMB 2, Toads have been playable in the NSMB titles that followed.They shared the same characteristics as Mario and Luigi, but this is to be expected in these games that were not focusing on unique character traits, but rather to test the waters of the multiplayer aspect in a traditional Mario platformer title. This game also introduced the Toads to using the same power-ups as the bros including the propeller, penguin, fire/ice, etc. SM3DW brought back Toad with his incredible speed and horrendous jumps/fast falling physics. We are also introduced to the playable Captain Toad in SM3DW with his very own levels. Super Mario Run also brings back Toad with high speed and introduces his companion Toadette as a playable character. In SMM2, Toad is playable along with Toadette and are even recreated in SMB1/SML/SMB3/SMW formats; thus, finally fulfilling a part of me that has wondered how Toad would look if appeared/was playable in these games. It's incredible!

RPG games:
I personally think a lot of the negative stigma that Toads are "generic villager/npc" characters stem from these titles. I rarely played the Mario rpgs until Partners in Time, so this might be why I never gave these titles much of a thought in regards to the importance of the Toads. However, it does appear that they are relatively minor in these games and generally make up the population characteristic as seen in titles like Colour Splash and Sticker Star; both of which are notoriously known for an overindulgence of generic toads. Extremely unfortunate, this might also lend to how many of the toads from these games are often depicted as red toads with blue vests much like Toad himself - further painting him as generic as well in the other titles. With the removal of original characters from the Paper Mario series in recent years, I can see why many fans have come to dislike the toads as they might have left a bitter taste in the mouths of many dedicated PM fans that have come to love the unique partner/npcs throughout the earlier games. Really do wish you guys get a more traditional PM game with unique characters in the near future.

Spin-offs:
Toad is very well known in Mario Kart. Playable in nearly every title and an arguable fan favourite since MK64, Toad may even be more well known in the Mario Kart games than in any other form of media as a whole. Mario Party also is a mixed bag from featuring Toad as a host to a playable characters in most of the later ones (those without feature him as a major host once again). Mario Party: Star Rush even features a mode dedicated to the Taods known as Toad Scramble where the player starts off as one of the Toads and recruits other characters throughout the way. Other spin-offs often feature Toad and Toadette as playable, but if not - the Toads are frequent audience members or hosts. It's safe to say that one can expect the Toads in one way or another in any Mario spin-off. Even titles that excluded the Toads for a while such as the Mario Tennis series have started to reintroduce Toad and Toadette as playable characters since NSMB Wii/Treasure Tracker etc.

Stardom and Legacy:
Outside of Toad's platforming antics, there have been two games so far that cast a Toad as the primary star. The first is Wario's Woods (NES and SNES) which played more to Toad's superhuman strength from SMB2 - moving around stacks of enemies and throwing bombs. Toad also had the unique ability to run up walls. While this game may be considered obscure, let's not forget the NES version has continuously reappeared over the years from Animal Crossing GCN, Virtual Console Wii, VC 3DS, NES Remix 2, and Nintendo Switch Online Classics. It's definitely considered a Nintendo classic at this point.

More importantly; however, was Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, a titular game named after Captain Toad himself. A very unique puzzle/platforming hybrid title, it's rare for a Mario character to get their own game - an honour held by some of the biggest characters alone: Luigi, DK, Yoshi, Wario, Peach...and finally (Captain) Toad. All of these characters sans Toad ironically are already in Smash. Captain Toad is capable of tossing objects/turnips akin to Toad in SMB2, wield a pickaxe, use double cherries, ride mine carts and even use his headlamps to take down Boos/ghost enemies. His only downside is lack of jumping prowess due to a heavy backpack. Treasure Tracker debuted on the Wii U, but had enough demand to be re-released on both the 3DS and the Switch.

Overall, Toad is best known for his supporting role. He and his companion Toads are among the few friendly faces you can expect to see to assist you in your journey to rescue Peach in games that are consistently filled to the brim with Bowser and his baddies. However, I feel this is underplayed too often especially in the Super Mario titles as these games generally lack depth besides the primary platforming gameplay - either you are playable or you are not; however, the Toads continue to appear regardless in a way to assist Mario be it through item shops or providing tips/encouragement to the player. The Toads are everywhere and serve a very different purpose compared to Goombas/Koopas/ etc that play as enemies/obstacles.

On the other hand, Toad is also a playable hero starting from 1988's Super Mario Bros. 2. Regardless of the history of this title, Toads have continued to appear as playable heroes in the platformers since 2009's New Super Mario Bros. Wii and onwards. In fact, Toad may very well be the third most frequently playable character in the entire Super Mario series right after Mario and Luigi. He is capable of using many of the various power-ups that Mario uses in these titles, and in SMB2/SM3DW/SMR - Toad has incredible speed and terrible jumps. This follows up in Treasure Tracker, where the similar character Captain Toad (and Toadette) is unable to jump due to his backpack, but is instead craftier in taking down his foes.

For a supporting character, Toad certainly did make quite a feat with several playable appearances, two own games (one even named after Captain Toad), and many appearances in the Mario games even if the Toads were not needed. I feel this again leads up to the mascot status I was mentioning before.

Playable platforming appearances: 6
- Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988) [NES]
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009) [Wii]
- New Super Mario Bros. U (2012) [Wii U]
- Super Mario 3D World (2013) [Wii U]
- Super Mario Run (2016) [Mobile]
- Super Mario Maker 2 (2019) [Switch]

This doesn't include Super Mario All-Stars & Super Mario Advance (remakes of SMB2), New Super Luigi U, and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe. All of which are remakes or variations of the previous titles that Toad has been playable in.

Starring roles: 2
- Wario's Woods (1994) [NES/SNES]
- Captain Toad Treasure Tracker (2014) [Wii U/Switch/3DS]

Toad is also very well recognized in Mario Kart. Despite criticism of him having a go-kart, I personally believe it is almost essential to have him represent Mario Kart in some form or shape (or a mine cart in TT) at least as one ability. Toad is a fan favourite in the series and I believe the series could use some representation in the game as well. Again, this is just my passing thought.

Furthermore, Toadette is also a rising star in the series as well. She is being heavily pushed and is now playable alongside Toad in both NSMB U Deluxe, SMR, and Super Mario Maker 2.

Finally, my ideal version of Toad in Smash Bros. should be a miniature bruiser with speed to boot (as others have mentioned) that is countered by his poor jumping prowess. Whether it be Toad or Captain Toad, either would be fine to me as there is plenty of material from the history of Mario titles to create such a scrappy character. I personally don't see any issue in the aspect of Captain Toad fighting in Smash Bros regardless of his lack of jumping ability. There are ways to bypass this via emptying out his backpack to alter his weight (new gameplay gimmick?), using abilities to play around his poor aerials (like in YoshiandToad's video), or even the plain out message of Sakurai announcing: "Don't worry, Captain Toad has packed light this time and is able to jump a bit!".

With things like Robin summoning Chrom to attack Chrom, three Links existing in the same battlefield, Alfonze replacing Toon Link as a background character in the Spirit Tracks stage when chosen, Villager and Isabelle actually fighting, Ridley suddenly no longer being too big after three Smash games, the inconsistent sizes of Olimar/Kirby/King DDD/etc, or Piranha Plant being an actual playable character - these inconsistencies and oddities no longer phase me anymore. It's just another reminder that we are playing a whacky platforming Nintendo fighting game that really shouldn't be questioned as to how certain things/abilities/characters fight at all.

To me, Toad is both a hero and a loyal supporting companion. He is very resourceful, scrappy, and quick on his feet. Toads are sometimes kidnapped or provide comic relief (ala Toad Brigade). There is also the rumour of his super strength from SMB2 and spore emitting/mushroom creating abilities as well from Smash/Mario Sports Mix. Toads as a whole have a similar history along with the recent release of Captain Toad's titular game. Toadette is becoming bigger with recent titles. Let's hope for a sequel to Treasure Tracker at this rate!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kaithehedgefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
391
A while back I posted my Toad moveset in this thread. Here's my moveset for him. I've revamped it a little.

Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, kick and then a flurry of alternating rapid punches.

Side Tilt: performs a slash.

Up Tilt: Performs a shoryuken-like uppercut.

Down Tilt: Performs a low kick.

Dash Attack: Does a dash attack similar to Beck's Acxelerate.

Neutral Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Forward Aerial: Fires a point-blank energy projectile in the midair.

Back Aerial: Performs a backwards roundhouse kick.

Up Aerial: Performs a flip kick.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.

Forward Smash: Toad charges up a hadouken-like energy projectile, then he fires it with his cupped hands.

Up Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.

Standard Special: Energy Ball: Same as Mario's fireball, only with ki/chakra/energy instead of fire.

Side Special: Ki Blasts: Nearly identical to Goku's ki blasts in Super Smash Flash 2, except that it always flies straight regardless of Toad being in midair or not.

Up Special: Super Jump Punch: same as Mario's.

Down Special: Energy Absorption: Similar to Ness and Lucas's PSI Magnet. Toad raises his hand forward to absorb certain projectiles.

Final Smash: Super Toad: Nearly Identical to Sonic's final smash from Smash 4.
Toad only similar moves are his neutral special and up special, the rest of his moveset is unique, which still makes him a Pseudo-clone of Mario.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
So I just realized I'm not a supporter for Toad, and that needs to be changed because I love Toad.
well ive added you to the support list so welcome to the brigade, did you like every comment in the thread?

A while back I posted my Toad moveset in this thread. Here's my moveset for him. I've revamped it a little.



Toad only similar moves are his neutral special and up special, the rest of his moveset is unique, which still makes him a Pseudo-clone of Mario.
three moves is not enough to make someone a pseudo clone id say

also seriously what is up with you giving toad a dragon ball moveset all the time?
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
4,780
A while back I posted my Toad moveset in this thread. Here's my moveset for him. I've revamped it a little.



Toad only similar moves are his neutral special and up special, the rest of his moveset is unique, which still makes him a Pseudo-clone of Mario.
You are aware that characters in Smash usually derive their movesets from unrelated anime, right?
well ive added you to the support list so welcome to the brigade, did you like every comment in the thread?
Heh, no, but I was bored and read back a while, so I did like a bunch of old posts.
 

kaithehedgefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
391
three moves is not enough to make someone a pseudo clone id say

also seriously what is up with you giving toad a dragon ball moveset all the time?
Actually, I think he can be considered a pseudo clone of mario since not only shares 2 similar moves, but he also shares Mario's animations.

My Toad moveset isn't an official concept. I thought of making him an energy brawler (The fighting style used by Goku Naruto, and other characters in their respective series) because I wanted to make him something unique to play as.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
6,512
Location
Miami, NYC
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
NNID
NapoleonPlays
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
Everyone from Wario Ware hasn't been able to get anything beyond a bit part in Smash so far, so that'll take a while.

In any case, I'm glad that the TT port gave Nintendo Software Technology something to do, lord knows they need that to not get the boot these days...
Wario Ware gets nothing. Until it gets something.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
Actually, I think he can be considered a pseudo clone of mario since not only shares 2 similar moves, but he also shares Mario's animations.

My Toad moveset isn't an official concept. I thought of making him an energy brawler (The fighting style used by Goku Naruto, and other characters in their respective series) because I wanted to make him something unique to play as.
you have a low bar for what makes a pseudo clone

and we know its not an official concept (i dont know where you got that from) and we know youre trying to make him unique you said that last time i was aking why dragon ball z
 

Oddball

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
688
My Toad moveset isn't an official concept. I thought of making him an energy brawler (The fighting style used by Goku Naruto, and other characters in their respective series) because I wanted to make him something unique to play as.
Making him something unique to play as is admirable. However you also need to make him still feel like the character and not like Goku is a funny hat.
 

kaithehedgefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
391
and we know its not an official concept (i dont know where you got that from) and we know youre trying to make him unique you said that last time i was aking why dragon ball z
Making him something unique to play as is admirable. However you also need to make him still feel like the character and not like Goku is a funny hat.
LOL! You just made me laugh! Well no actually Toad's moveset isn't that similar to Goku (who is deconfirmed) at all. But the real reason why I made Toad an energy brawler is because I couldn't think of anything else that would be great to make Toad distinct. And plus, it's also more creative to add my own moves that I invented for a character.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
LOL! You just made me laugh! Well no actually Toad's moveset isn't that similar to Goku (who is deconfirmed) at all. But the real reason why I made Toad an energy brawler is because I couldn't think of anything else that would be great to make Toad distinct. And plus, it's also more creative to add my own moves that I invented for a character.
but thats the thing you dont need to make stuff up to make toad unique theres so much stuff he can use just ask any of us

also you said they were based on goku stuff so you cant really blame us for assuming
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,541
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Can I make a suggestion Kai?

Instead of 'energy' or 'ki' or 'chakra' let's make those blasts and beams into mushroom spore blasts. They'd keep pretty much their same properties but at the same time feel a little more 'Toad' which I personally think would improve your moveset.

I'm not sure about the telekinesis for grabs either as that feels a bit more Ness or maybe even Boo than Toad. I don't think Toad or his species have ever used psychic powers(although I'd be down for it if they could). I'm sure there's something else you could use creatively in it's place though?
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
Can I make a suggestion Kai?

Instead of 'energy' or 'ki' or 'chakra' let's make those blasts and beams into mushroom spore blasts. They'd keep pretty much their same properties but at the same time feel a little more 'Toad' which I personally think would improve your moveset.

I'm not sure about the telekinesis for grabs either as that feels a bit more Ness or maybe even Boo than Toad. I don't think Toad or his species have ever used psychic powers(although I'd be down for it if they could). I'm sure there's something else you could use creatively in it's place though?
that reminds me, nintendo's toad mascot for line is best friends with a boo, wouldnt it be great to see a nod to that in a toad moveset
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,541
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
I'm sure some of you have already seen this but check this RIDICULOUS level Alpharad nearly went INSANE trying to complete.

Our main boy Toad is the FIRST(and possibly ONLY) person to make it through this absolute hellhole:


alright brigade ive got a challenge for you all, come up with a move set for toad base on super mario maker
Hmmm...I'll do a quick attempt as I just finished the storymode today. Still not made a course though!

Entrance: Toad enters through a pipe, same as Mario and Luigi.

Toad(Mario Maker 2)
B: Hammer. Smashes forward in an overarching motion. Can be charged for a stronger smash.
Side B: Throws out a crate. If charged can throw out a stone block(Story mode has you collect many stone blocks for the Toads) which hits for a massive 30% damage but doesn't travel particularly far.
Down B: Toad gets into the Goomba Shoe and slams it down with force.
Up B: Similar to Sonic, Toad bounces off a spring. Unlike Sonic though this is an item that can be picked up and thrown before it despawns.

Side Smash: Toad gets inside a Dry Bones shell and slides across the opponent
Down Smash: ! Block. Toad Ground Pounds and hits a ! Block below him. This creates two blocks that appear either side of the ! block, which can smack opponents away.
Up Smash: Toad dons the Spiny Shell helmet(ala Purple Toad in Storymode) and headbutts upwards. Good kill potential.

Final Smash: The entire screen suddenly pauses as Toad hits a clapper board. Dozens of Banzai Bills, Boos and Chain Chomps are added to the location directly in front the poor saps that are hit. Toad claps the board again with a wink and the opponents are sent flying by the barrage of sudden enemies.

Alt outfits: Regular(non builder), Toadette(non builder), Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, Green Toad, Purple Toad, Taskmaster(regular with builder outfit), Chief(Toadette with builder outfit).

Taunts:
Down Taunt: Transforms into one of the other modes sprites briefly, similar to Pac-Man's up taunt.
Up Taunt: Goes into a bubble and briefly floats like how the Toads do when hit in Story mode.
Side Taunt: Carries a stack of building blocks including music blocks, question blocks, Partrick and P blocks.

Victory:
1: Toad chases UndoDog around who has the Reset Rocket button in it's mouth. UndoDog sets it off as Toad scampers around concerned
2: Toad is lifted up by the rest of the Builder Toads(all in builder hats) and thrown into the air.
3: A Parakoopa is flying in the air when Toad bounces off of him onto a flying Buzzy Beetle and then a Paragoomba before landing on a flagpole. He waves happily as he slides down it.
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
I'm sure some of you have already seen this but check this RIDICULOUS level Alpharad nearly went INSANE trying to complete.

Our main boy Toad is the FIRST(and possibly ONLY) person to make it through this absolute hellhole:

Hmmm...I'll do a quick attempt as I just finished the storymode today. Still not made a course though!

Entrance: Toad enters through a pipe, same as Mario and Luigi.

Toad(Mario Maker 2)
B: Hammer. Smashes forward in an overarching motion. Can be charged for a stronger smash.
Side B: Throws out a crate. If charged can throw out a stone block(Story mode has you collect many stone blocks for the Toads) which hits for a massive 30% damage but doesn't travel particularly far.
Down B: Toad gets into the Goomba Shoe and slams it down with force.
Up B: Similar to Sonic, Toad bounces off a spring. Unlike Sonic though this is an item that can be picked up and thrown before it despawns.

Side Smash: Toad gets inside a Dry Bones shell and slides across the opponent
Down Smash: ! Block. Toad Ground Pounds and hits a ! Block below him. This creates two blocks that appear either side of the ! block, which can smack opponents away.
Up Smash: Toad dons the Spiny Shell helmet(ala Purple Toad in Storymode) and headbutts upwards. Good kill potential.

Final Smash: The entire screen suddenly pauses as Toad hits a clapper board. Dozens of Banzai Bills, Boos and Chain Chomps are added to the location directly in front the poor saps that are hit. Toad claps the board again with a wink and the opponents are sent flying by the barrage of sudden enemies.

Alt outfits: Regular(non builder), Toadette(non builder), Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, Green Toad, Purple Toad, Taskmaster(regular with builder outfit), Chief(Toadette with builder outfit).

Taunts:
Down Taunt: Transforms into one of the other modes sprites briefly, similar to Pac-Man's up taunt.
Up Taunt: Goes into a bubble and briefly floats like how the Toads do when hit in Story mode.
Side Taunt: Carries a stack of building blocks including music blocks, question blocks, Partrick and P blocks.

Victory:
1: Toad chases UndoDog around who has the Reset Rocket button in it's mouth. UndoDog sets it off as Toad scampers around concerned
2: Toad is lifted up by the rest of the Builder Toads(all in builder hats) and thrown into the air.
3: A Parakoopa is flying in the air when Toad bounces off of him onto a flying Buzzy Beetle and then a Paragoomba before landing on a flagpole. He waves happily as he slides down it.
love it
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kaithehedgefox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
391
but thats the thing you dont need to make stuff up to make toad unique theres so much stuff he can use just ask any of us

also you said they were based on goku stuff so you cant really blame us for assuming
When I said Goku, I was refering to his series (Dragon Ball), not the character. And Toad's moveset is actually more like Yusuke than Goku. Also my Toad moveset is actually for a future mod for Smash Ultimate.

Can I make a suggestion Kai?

Instead of 'energy' or 'ki' or 'chakra' let's make those blasts and beams into mushroom spore blasts. They'd keep pretty much their same properties but at the same time feel a little more 'Toad' which I personally think would improve your moveset.

I'm not sure about the telekinesis for grabs either as that feels a bit more Ness or maybe even Boo than Toad. I don't think Toad or his species have ever used psychic powers(although I'd be down for it if they could). I'm sure there's something else you could use creatively in it's place though?
I think your suggestions are marvelous! But I think I'll still have ki/chakra/energy blasts for Toad. But I think we can replace the telekinesis grab with something better.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
When I said Goku, I was refering to his series (Dragon Ball), not the character. And Toad's moveset is actually more like Yusuke than Goku. Also my Toad moveset is actually for a future mod for Smash Ultimate.
.
your logic confuses me deeply

Captain Toad, Toadette, Regular Toad, these are all good choices... But what about Green Buff Toad?
i dont know what im looking at
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,541
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Captain Toad, Toadette, Regular Toad, these are all good choices... But what about Green Buff Toad?
Ah it's Kinopio-Kun! He's pretty important in the Japanese fanbase being the mascot character for their social media. I found the actual pic below:


He's also a Labo Motorbike if you remember that?


If we ever get Toad, Kinopio should probably be one of the alts...although the Captain isn't too sure on the guy:

Kinda interesting that the eventual second player for Captain Toad would have KinopioKun's inverted white spot look, if not his colours...
 
Last edited:

Sebas22

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
183
Ah it's Kinopio-Kun! He's pretty important in the Japanese fanbase being the mascot character for their social media. I found the actual pic below:


He's also a Labo Motorbike if you remember that?


If we ever get Toad, Kinopio should probably be one of the alts...although the Captain isn't too sure on the guy:

Kinda interesting that the eventual second player for Captain Toad would have KinopioKun's inverted white spot look, if not his colours...
That's super interesting. I didn't know he was an unique character! I only had engraved in my head the buff Toad video, which honestly was quite strange...
Still, I support him!
 

fogbadge

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
6,258
Location
Scotland
Ah it's Kinopio-Kun! He's pretty important in the Japanese fanbase being the mascot character for their social media. I found the actual pic below:


He's also a Labo Motorbike if you remember that?

well those two take top spots in weirdest thing ive seen based on him and im including the rabbid based on him
 

FancySmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,039
Location
The elegant battlefield.
Something completely off the walls for an idea, but lately I've realize that Toad's kinda gone back to his roots with hosting Super Mario Party in the Mario Party series...

So what if Toad's final smash was, well, hosting a Mario Party. I see it as a cinematic where Toad drops down next to a roulette, watches it, before it finally stops on a minigame for the caught foes to play, and Toad celebrates. The foe is then seen being damaged over and over in the minigame, as let's be honest, Mario Party is pretty dangerous. If I had to pick a minigame, I'd go with:
1562553359786.png

Hot Rope Jump just makes a lot of sense. I could see the opponent failing to jump the lava bubble/podoboo (does anyone still call them that) over and over, before being launched when the final smash ends. In an ideal world though, the minigame selected would always be random out of a list of maybe 3.

Thoughts?
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
4,780
Something completely off the walls for an idea, but lately I've realize that Toad's kinda gone back to his roots with hosting Super Mario Party in the Mario Party series...

So what if Toad's final smash was, well, hosting a Mario Party. I see it as a cinematic where Toad drops down next to a roulette, watches it, before it finally stops on a minigame for the caught foes to play, and Toad celebrates. The foe is then seen being damaged over and over in the minigame, as let's be honest, Mario Party is pretty dangerous. If I had to pick a minigame, I'd go with:
View attachment 230416
Hot Rope Jump just makes a lot of sense. I could see the opponent failing to jump the lava bubble/podoboo (does anyone still call them that) over and over, before being launched when the final smash ends. In an ideal world though, the minigame selected would always be random out of a list of maybe 3.

Thoughts?
Tbh I think that would be very awesome.
 
Top