Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

kaithehedgefox

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Here's my new moveset for Toad. I decided to make him a swordfighter this time.

Neutral Attack: slashes twice with his lightsaber, and then performs a flurry of rapid slashes.

Side Tilt: performs a horizontal slash.

Up Tilt: performs an overhead slash

Down Tilt: performs a low slash.

Dash attack: bashes in with his ligthsaber.

Neutral aerial: performs a horizontal slash in the midair.

Forward Aerial: performs a forward slash in the midair

Back Aerial: performs an upward slash in the midiar.

Up Aerial: performs an overhead slash in the midiar.

Down Aerial: performs a down thrust with his ligthsaber.

Side Smash: fires an hadouken-like energy sphere from his arm cannon (similar to Tails's arm cannon).

Up Smash: fires an energy beam from his arm cannon upwards.

Down Smash: fires an energy beam from his arm cannon downwards.

Grabs and throws: Grabs his opponent and then he slashes them with his lightsaber.

Neutral Special: Fireball: similar to Mario's neutral special.

Side Special: unnamed: fires a missile from his arm cannon.

Up Special: Super Jump Punch: same as Mario's up special.

Down Special: not sure yet

Final Smash: Super Toad: similar to Sonic's final smash in smash 4.
How do you like my new moveset for Toad.
 
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Here's my new moveset for Toad. I decided to make him a swordfighter this time.


How do you like my new moveset for Toad.
I have a few questions:

One: Why is he a swordsman?
Two: Why is he a cyborg with an arm cannon?
Three: Why is he punching if he uses a sword and a hand cannon? What hand is he punching with? Either hand he'd be better off using his weapons for extended range. That said I don't think swords or hand cannons are neccessarily very 'Toad'. Hammers or pickaxes? Sure. Swords? Not so much.

Seems like the arm cannon should belong more to Geno honestly as turning his body into a gun is sort of his entire thing.

...that said, there is a SMRPG quote from Toad about forgetting his bazooka, so whilst obscure I'd probably be okay with him having a bazooka attack which would work similar to your arm cannon.

As far as I know Toad hasn't ever used a sword in canon. I think Galaxy had a few Toads with spears and shields guarding the castle in the opening, but I can't recall a time where Toad used a sword.
 
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fogbadge

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Here's my new moveset for Toad. I decided to make him a swordfighter this time.


How do you like my new moveset for Toad.
i lost interest the second i saw the word lightsaber


I have a few questions:

One: Why is he a swordsman?
Two: Why is he a cyborg with an arm cannon?
Three: Why is he punching if he uses a sword and a hand cannon? What hand is he punching with? Either hand he'd be better off using his weapons for extended range. That said I don't think swords or hand cannons are neccessarily very 'Toad'. Hammers or pickaxes? Sure. Swords? Not so much.

Seems like the arm cannon should belong more to Geno honestly as turning his body into a gun is sort of his entire thing.

...that said, there is a SMRPG quote from Toad about forgetting his bazooka, so whilst obscure I'd probably be okay with him having a bazooka attack which would work similar to your arm cannon.

As far as I know Toad hasn't ever used a sword in canon. I think Galaxy had a few Toads with spears and shields guarding the castle in the opening, but I can't recall a time where Toad used a sword.
they had spears
 
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kaithehedgefox

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I have a few questions:

One: Why is he a swordsman?
Two: Why is he a cyborg with an arm cannon?
Three: Why is he punching if he uses a sword and a hand cannon? What hand is he punching with? Either hand he'd be better off using his weapons for extended range. That said I don't think swords or hand cannons are neccessarily very 'Toad'. Hammers or pickaxes? Sure. Swords? Not so much.

Seems like the arm cannon should belong more to Geno honestly as turning his body into a gun is sort of his entire thing.

...that said, there is a SMRPG quote from Toad about forgetting his bazooka, so whilst obscure I'd probably be okay with him having a bazooka attack which would work similar to your arm cannon.

As far as I know Toad hasn't ever used a sword in canon. I think Galaxy had a few Toads with spears and shields guarding the castle in the opening, but I can't recall a time where Toad used a sword.
Your questions are hillarious! Toad isn't a cyborg. Also his arm canon smash attacks are based on Tails's energy ball blaster arm cannon attack from Sonic Battle. He can transmute his arm into a cannon. And his lightsaber only appears when he is using it. Similar to how Ness's baseball bat and yoyo only appear when he uses them respectively.

So do you like my previous moveset for Toad better?
 

FancySmash

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Here's my new moveset for Toad. I decided to make him a swordfighter this time.


How do you like my new moveset for Toad.
What I for some reason thought of after reading this... moveset.
1564716389386.png

Um, anyways, several things to break down here. Let's go over the positives, the fire ball and super jump punch. Whilst I myself wouldn't go to these for a Toad moveset, those are indeed things Toad does with New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U/3D World/Maker 2. Toad has gained some Mario abilities in recent years, which could indeed be used for a moveset, if we wanted a 4th Mario clone. I'm gonna give you a couple of points there. Now... for everything else.

  • The Lightsaber
    • So... um, aside from the blatant copyright issue, and the fact that the beam sword exists as an item, Toad's never had any experience with this weapon, much less a normal sword. The closest we have is a spear, and there are other characters like Fire Emblem spear wielders or Bandana Waddle Dee that could probably do that instead and free up Toad to do something more unique to himself or his species.
  • Arm canon
    • This is more a question of why take something from Tails when Tails is equally as viable as a character to get into Smash and use this feature of his himself. I mean, the closest we've seen to Mario characters using a blaster like this was in Mario and Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, and in that game, Toad and Toadette were both escorts who couldn't use such weapons. Not to say I can't see them pulling from the game if they absolutely had to, but I wouldn't worry about that, I think Toad has more than enough to make a moveset without taking elements from games he didn't have those abilities in (looking at Ness on that one I'm afraid).
  • Super Toad
    • Actually, I'd sooner see :ultpacman: do this thanks to Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures. But I don't think anyone, aside from maybe Shadow the Hedgehog, having to take from Sonic for a final smash. Knuckles could do something with the Master Emerald, Tails has the Tornado, and the elephant in the room, Toad has never shown capabilities like this before. Props for wanting to bring back Sonic's old final smash in some way, but I don't think Toad is the character to do it.
I'm not wanting to discourage you from continuing to think of a moveset, imagining what a character could bring to the table is a large portion of the fun in Smash speculation, but I would recommend looking to Toad's source material when designing a moveset. For example, this is something I put together for Captain Toad primarily focusing on specials, and the argument that he can't jump in his game.

I believe I’ve come up with a way to implement Captain Toad in Smash without compromising his inability to jump. First, let’s get the easy stuff out of the way.

  • Standard Special: Green Star – Captain Toad holds a green star above his had that rapidly spins around for a few seconds, damaging all who touch it, and pulling in those close to Captain Toad.
  • Side Special: Pickaxe Rush – Captain Toad moves forward blindly swinging his pickaxe for all that get in his way.
  • Down Special: Captain Turnip – Captain Toad pulls a turnip from the ground like Peach/Daisy. The difference here is, Captain Toad throws the turnip so hard, it doesn’t lose height when thrown.
  • Final Smash: Mario Party – A cinematic where Toad/Captain Toad drops down next to a roulette, watches it, before it finally stops on a minigame for the caught foes to play, and Toad celebrates. The foe is then seen being damaged over and over in the minigame (ideally in my mind, Hot Rope Jump, but there are several that could work). The minigame soon ends and launches his foes.
Now for the fun stuff, my way of getting Captain Toad some vertical distance without jumping, let me introduce you to, his “jumps.”

  • Monster Climb: With a press of the X Button on the GCN controller, or a flick of the control stick upward, Captain Toad climbs a stack of 3 vaguely familiar monsters which appear right in front of him. Anyone other than Captain Toad who touches them will take damage.
  • Up Special: Bomb Climb – Similar to Monster Climb, this time Captain Toad climbs a stack of three bombs, and once he reaches the top, he gives a short hop off the side of it, and the tower tumbles to the ground, where the bombs shortly explode thereafter.
What’s that? Captain Toad would be overpowered with a damaging “jump?” While it’s true that a damaging jump is useful, especially if it blocks would be attackers who attack the captain from the front, Captain Toad also loses valuable tools with this approach, such as the foot stool technique and a reliable horizontal recovery.

Now, you’re probably thinking he loses his aerials too, right? Nope, not at all. While in Monster Climb, Captain Toad can pick up these monsters and chuck them at opponents whenever the aerial inputs are performed. Up and side aerials has him throw them to the respective directions, while down aerial has him stomp down from the stack. Of course, throwing these monsters means his “jump” will be quite diminished in the vertical department, so it’s up to you to determine when and when not to attack.

The case I think everyone on the board is hoping to make, is that Toad has a ton of history and potential, and he doesn't really need to borrow from other characters/franchises for a moveset. Though hold on to your idea of Tails' energy gun from Sonic Battle, you could probably make a nifty Tails moveset with that! Again, don't get discouraged by this, just return to the drawing table and pull more from what we all know Toad can do from his many years in Mario games!
 

kaithehedgefox

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What I for some reason thought of after reading this... moveset.

Um, anyways, several things to break down here. Let's go over the positives, the fire ball and super jump punch. Whilst I myself wouldn't go to these for a Toad moveset, those are indeed things Toad does with New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U/3D World/Maker 2. Toad has gained some Mario abilities in recent years, which could indeed be used for a moveset, if we wanted a 4th Mario clone. I'm gonna give you a couple of points there. Now... for everything else.

  • The Lightsaber
    • So... um, aside from the blatant copyright issue, and the fact that the beam sword exists as an item, Toad's never had any experience with this weapon, much less a normal sword. The closest we have is a spear, and there are other characters like Fire Emblem spear wielders or Bandana Waddle Dee that could probably do that instead and free up Toad to do something more unique to himself or his species.
  • Arm canon
    • This is more a question of why take something from Tails when Tails is equally as viable as a character to get into Smash and use this feature of his himself. I mean, the closest we've seen to Mario characters using a blaster like this was in Mario and Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, and in that game, Toad and Toadette were both escorts who couldn't use such weapons. Not to say I can't see them pulling from the game if they absolutely had to, but I wouldn't worry about that, I think Toad has more than enough to make a moveset without taking elements from games he didn't have those abilities in (looking at Ness on that one I'm afraid).
  • Super Toad
    • Actually, I'd sooner see :ultpacman: do this thanks to Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures. But I don't think anyone, aside from maybe Shadow the Hedgehog, having to take from Sonic for a final smash. Knuckles could do something with the Master Emerald, Tails has the Tornado, and the elephant in the room, Toad has never shown capabilities like this before. Props for wanting to bring back Sonic's old final smash in some way, but I don't think Toad is the character to do it.
I'm not wanting to discourage you from continuing to think of a moveset, imagining what a character could bring to the table is a large portion of the fun in Smash speculation, but I would recommend looking to Toad's source material when designing a moveset. For example, this is something I put together for Captain Toad primarily focusing on specials, and the argument that he can't jump in his game.

The case I think everyone on the board is hoping to make, is that Toad has a ton of history and potential, and he doesn't really need to borrow from other characters/franchises for a moveset. Though hold on to your idea of Tails' energy gun from Sonic Battle, you could probably make a nifty Tails moveset with that! Again, don't get discouraged by this, just return to the drawing table and pull more from what we all know Toad can do from his many years in Mario games!
I might wanna give my Toad moveset another revamp.
 

fogbadge

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speaking of movesets that reminds me, Ahm Skittish! Ahm Skittish! you know that quote of sakurai's about characters having something only they can do you mentioned once or twice? could you link me it i wanna get the full context for future speculation and what have you


(man i hope i tagged the right person)
 

Ahm Skittish!

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speaking of movesets that reminds me, Ahm Skittish! Ahm Skittish! you know that quote of sakurai's about characters having something only they can do you mentioned once or twice? could you link me it i wanna get the full context for future speculation and what have you


(man i hope i tagged the right person)
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/ It's from here. Mind you, my quote isn't exactly the same as what he said, but it's the same meaning. Like why we got Robin over Chrom to begin with, since uniqueness is the key stand-out factor. Clones/Echoes are nice, since this has gotten many in that didn't have a chance otherwise.
 

fogbadge

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http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/ It's from here. Mind you, my quote isn't exactly the same as what he said, but it's the same meaning. Like why we got Robin over Chrom to begin with, since uniqueness is the key stand-out factor. Clones/Echoes are nice, since this has gotten many in that didn't have a chance otherwise.
thanks thisll help with the speculating

well that makes for an interesting read, sounds to me like uniqueness is really important and the "something only they can do" perhaps means in smash rather than their own games (unless ive misread it)

not sure where that leaves us with any characters
 

kaithehedgefox

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Here's my newer version of Toad's moveset.

Neutral Attack: Punches Twice and then performs a flurry of rapid kicks.

Side Tilt: Performs a strong punch with his fist.

Up Tilt: Does a shroyuken-like uppercut.

Down Tilt: Performs a Low kick.

Dash Attack: performs a dash similar to Beck's Axcelerate.

Neutral Aerial: performs a spinning attack similar to Lilac's dragon cyclone (from freedom planet).

Forward Aerial: Performs a slash of energy/ki/chakra in the midair.

Back Aerial: Performs a backward roundhouse kick.

Up Aerial: Performs a flip kick.

Down Aerial: Performs a diving kick.

Side Smash: fires a Hadouken-like projectile from his cupped hands.

Up Smash: fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Grab and Throw: Simply grabs the opponent, throws can vary.

Neutral Special: Fireball: Same as Mario's

Side Special: fires a piercing beam of energy from his index finger.

Up Special: Super Jump Punch: Same as Mario's

Down Special: Throws a sphere of energy similar to Naruto's rasengan.

Final Smash: Super Toad: similar to Sonic's Final Smash from smash 4.
What are your opinions about my new Toad moveset. I decided to make him a pseudo-clone of Mario. Since he only shares his Up special and neutral special.
 

FancySmash

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Here's my newer version of Toad's moveset.



What are your opinions about my new Toad moveset. I decided to make him a pseudo-clone of Mario. Since he only shares his Up special and neutral special.
Every iteration of a Toad moveset you make, I'm sorry, but there's only one Toad I could even possibly see using any of these moves.
1564962780404.png

I think this has actually been said before too. Even then, I'm pretty sure this Toad isn't normal.
 

kaithehedgefox

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why do you refuse to use things from toad's own games and use thing from different games?
You made me laugh! Well, it because I'm trying to make Toad a unique playable character, but still give him two cloned moves from Mario. And also, this moveset is going to be used for a future playable Toad mod. And also, how would fans react to my playable toad mod with this moveset.
 
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Captain Toad game-related items and moves to consider for Smash:

Pickax (normal for neutral moves and then blue, glowing and barely under Toad's control for Super Pickax smash moves)
Turnip (thrown projectiles, perhaps with less variety of turnip types compared to Peach/Daisy but able to pluck and toss them faster)
Backpack (spinning heavy smash attack which temporarily dizzies Toad)
Headlamp (the cursor stun move that you can use to temporarily electrify enemies in Captain Toad, designed to look like it's emitted from his headlamp)
Potted Piranha Plant (an item used in Captain Toad, Toad holds the plant pot above his head and it snaps at enemies, or could be a ranged grab move)
Double Cherry (could be a counter or a trap move where a second Mirror Toad appears on the other side of a nearby target and both Toads hit him)
Turnip Cannon (Final Smash)
 

fogbadge

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You made me laugh! Well, it because I'm trying to make Toad a unique playable character, but still give him two cloned moves from Mario. And also, this moveset is going to be used for a future playable Toad mod. And also, how would fans react to my playable toad mod with this moveset.
ok toad has so many things he can use that would make him very different, which we have mentioned to you a few times so at this point its starting to feel like youre making up excuses for why you have such an odd moveset

fans would react very badly to it, fans would want toad to have a moveset based on what he does in his own games not off thing he has no connection to or a very loose connection where it still makes no sense

aslo dont tell people you laughed at their post unless youre 100% sure they are trying to be funny, cause it comes across as a little rude

I'd really like for Toad to be playable in Smash.

Mainly Toad himself, but Captain Toad would be cool too.

why did Nintendo name Toad and his race the same, I thought Captain Toad was the same character for the longest time...
care to be on our supporters' list?
 
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kaithehedgefox

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you werent supposed to find it hilarious, laughing can still be insulting even if it wasnt meant to be mocking
Thanks for warning me.

ok toad has so many things he can use that would make him very different, which we have mentioned to you a few times so at this point its starting to feel like youre making up excuses for why you have such an odd moveset

fans would react very badly to it, fans would want toad to have a moveset based on what he does in his own games not off thing he has no connection to or a very loose connection where it still makes no sense
I would still want to give Toad Mario's neutral and up special moves. But I still want to give him a unique moveset.
 
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Quillion

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I have to ask, is there a reason to have a general Toad over Captain Toad? If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen), Waluigi would be better. Captain Toad has unique things to him as a character beyond general Toad.
 
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I have to ask, is there a reason to have a general Toad over Captain Toad? If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen), Waluigi would be better. Captain Toad has unique things to him as a character beyond general Toad.
I like Toad himself because he's the main Toad.

I like Captain Toad too, and the color-specific Toads, but I like the main Toad the best. He's actually had starring/playable roles outside of spinoffs; Super Mario Bros. 2 and its remakes, Wario's Woods, and Super Mario Run (which I guess is a main game). I'm not sure if 3D World counts; its Toad is a blue Toad, but he's only called Toad in that game, so I don't know...the wiki is confusing...
 
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I have to ask, is there a reason to have a general Toad over Captain Toad? If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen), Waluigi would be better. Captain Toad has unique things to him as a character beyond general Toad.
I think many like the original Toad design because that's the more iconic look.
Also that Toad does have a few things going for him over the Captain; the fact he has 30 years of a whole heap of different games to pull from, and the fact he can clearly jump which seems to be a matter of contention for Toad discussions. Toad's first notable few playable roles in SMB2 and Wario's Woods also add to that feel of the 'general' or 'Classic' Toad being the true one for those fans as well as the various Blue and Yellow Toads playability throughout the New Super Mario Bros. franchise, Mario Maker 2 and Super Mario 3D World.

As much as I like Waluigi(and I do, he's in my top 10 most wanted), I'll always associate Toad with Mario Kart and Mario Party more than the Waa due to Toad's perfect attendence and general popularity as a Kart racer and due to his more notable role as the party host in the latter. When it comes to any of the other spinoff multiplayer games though, in particular Tennis, I agree Waluigi is the best boy for the job.

I personally do slightly prefer the Captain to Classic Toad, but it's such a small slight either would become my instant new main and make me punch the air to finally see this genuine Nintendo All star finally make it into the roster alongside his buddies.

I just want the dang pickaxe in the moveset somewhere, even if it's on Classic Toad, as there's nothing quite like the feel of flipping from underpowered underdog to badass monster destroying machine.
 

Lenidem

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If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen)
I don't see why it should not. There are already several Mario Kart stages and a Mario Maker one, a ton of musics from the spin-off to the point that Mario is the only serie to have two playlists, Peach's forward smashes refer to Golf, Tennis and RPG, and Bowser Jr's forward special directly refers to Mario Kart.

But sure, spin-off are evil.
 
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I have to ask, is there a reason to have a general Toad over Captain Toad? If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen), Waluigi would be better. Captain Toad has unique things to him as a character beyond general Toad.
well we wouldnt be having a general toad hed be the toad, toad himself would represent spin offs cause hes seen thought the the franchise from the main games to the multiplayers to the rpgs
 
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Not gonna lie, as much as I like Toad, I feel as if we're getting desperate if we want him in the game
Okay but why would wanting the single most iconic Nintendo character left be desperate opposed to some of the lesser known characters currently already in Smash?

Guy has his own games, is heavily marketed and is known the world over. This ain't no Z Lister Chief.
 
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Okay but why would wanting the single most iconic Nintendo character left be desperate opposed to some of the lesser known characters currently already in Smash?

Guy has his own games, is heavily marketed and is known the world over. This ain't no Z Lister Chief.
He isn't an A lister either, there's many characters that I feel deserve spots in before Toad. Any new Zelda character as an example would be much more interesting than Toad would, plus we have lots of Mario reps. I'm not against him in the game
 
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He isn't an A lister either, there's many characters that I feel deserve spots in before Toad. Any new Zelda character as an example would be much more interesting than Toad would, plus we have lots of Mario reps. I'm not against him in the game
Hang on a character who appears in nearly every installation of the biggest video game franchise in the world isn’t a-list?
 
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He isn't an A lister either, there's many characters that I feel deserve spots in before Toad. Any new Zelda character as an example would be much more interesting than Toad would, plus we have lots of Mario reps. I'm not against him in the game
I'm certainly not against a new Zelda character, but I personally feel much like Dixie and a new Zelda character, Toad is long overdue.

Captain Toad had sales that outdid Warioware, it's a game that has had (surprising) consistent support from Nintendo with two sets of DLC this year and comparing him to the other Mario characters that have gotten in, I'd suggest he's more required than Plant, Doc, Daisy or even Rosalina what with having his own successful million dollar sales game and his consistent appearances as a playable multiplayer character alongside the Mario Bros and Peach/Toadette.

He's got legit reasons to be included is all I'm saying and Toad is very much a big part of Mario as the very literal face of the Mushroom Kingdom.

But yeah, give us some damn Zelda characters too, Sakurai. Seriously!
 
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I'm certainly not against a new Zelda character, but I personally feel much like Dixie and a new Zelda character, Toad is long overdue.

Captain Toad had sales that outdid Warioware, it's a game that has had (surprising) consistent support from Nintendo with two sets of DLC this year and comparing him to the other Mario characters that have gotten in, I'd suggest he's more required than Plant, Doc, Daisy or even Rosalina what with having his own successful million dollar sales game and his consistent appearances as a playable multiplayer character alongside the Mario Bros and Peach/Toadette.

He's got legit reasons to be included is all I'm saying and Toad is very much a big part of Mario as the very literal face of the Mushroom Kingdom.

But yeah, give us some damn Zelda characters too, Sakurai. Seriously!
Agreed.

Hang on a character who appears in nearly every installation of the biggest video game franchise in the world isn’t a-list?
That doesn't make them A-list.
 
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I have to ask, is there a reason to have a general Toad over Captain Toad? If it's just to represent spinoffs (which SHOULD NOT happen), Waluigi would be better. Captain Toad has unique things to him as a character beyond general Toad.
Well, because he's... Toad, y'know? Like, Toad is hella iconic, is a staple of videogaming, and it's just been decades of people getting endeared to him before Captain Toad showed up. They can do different things, they can be conflated, but there's definite worth in discussing either.
He isn't an A lister either, there's many characters that I feel deserve spots in before Toad. Any new Zelda character as an example would be much more interesting than Toad would, plus we have lots of Mario reps. I'm not against him in the game
Toad is 100% an A-lister. Dude's more iconic than like 98% of videogame characters. If that's not an A-lister I don't know what is.
 
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That doesn't make them A-list.
no what makes him a-list is that hes played the role of a hero in several of these games, hes one of the most recognisable faces in all of video gaming, hes beloved by gamers all over and is one of the go to characters in just about every kind of mario multiplayer
 
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Well, because he's... Toad, y'know? Like, Toad is hella iconic, is a staple of videogaming, and it's just been decades of people getting endeared to him before Captain Toad showed up. They can do different things, they can be conflated, but there's definite worth in discussing either.

Toad is 100% an A-lister. Dude's more iconic than like 98% of videogame characters. If that's not an A-lister I don't know what is.
A listers are mostly protagonists, and characters that have extremely successful games. Toad doesn't fit these categories at all
 
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