Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

Arcadenik

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I wonder whether the Rex Mii outfit actually is DLC or whether it's the most they could do for the base roster though. Since Sakurai presumably knew he wouldn't be picking the DLC it could be a failsafe so he got some Xenoblade 2 stuff into Ultimate.
It is DLC. The Direct said you get the Rex Mii costume as a bonus when you purchase the Fighters Pass.

I am pretty sure the Toad Mii costume isn't DLC. The Direct showed it but didn't say it's DLC. I assume all Mii costumes from SSB4 DLC are in the base game. That's why we still have Chrom Mii costume.

Known Mii costumes in the base game (names with "SSB4" are returning Mii costumes from SSB4)
  • Lip :4miisword:
  • Toad - SSB4 :4miibrawl:
  • Yiga Clan :4miisword:
  • Inkling (Splatoon 2) :4miigun:
  • Ribbon Girl :4miibrawl:
  • Chibi Robo :4miigun:
  • Ray Mk III :4miigun:
  • Toy-Con :4miibrawl:
  • Nintendo Labo Robot :4miibrawl:
  • Captain Falcon - SSB4 :4miibrawl:
  • Chrom - SSB4 :4miisword:
  • K. K. Slider - SSB4 :4miigun:
  • Nia (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) :4miibrawl:
  • Saki Amamiya :4miigun:
  • Skull Kid :4miibrawl:

Known Mii costumes for Smash Ultimate DLC
  • Rex (as a bonus for purchasing the Fighters Pass) :4miisword:
 
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fogbadge

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But the Final Smash Direct said "While Rex didn't quite make the roster... Hopefully, this helps you feel like you're playing as him."

So... Sakurai is giving us Rex Mii costume as DLC so we can pretend we are playing as Rex instead of giving us Rex as one of five DLC fighters so we can actually play as Rex.

Just doesn't make sense to give us a Rex Mii costume as DLC when they could have given us Rex as a DLC fighter.
the thing is though what makes sense to us doesnt nesiccerally make sense to sakurai thats been one of our biggest problems we think it makes sense to have toad in smash but sakurai doesnt seem to think so

as for rex it could be the same thing it might make perfect sense in sakurai's mind to give us both a rex costume and rex himself as dlc
 
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Question: do you think the presence of Captain Toad on New Donk City has yet to be brought up/discussed because maybe he started as a background element before they confirmed he was DLC? Some optimistic speculation!
It's certainly possible although perhaps unlikely depending on the DLC timing.

That said I haven't actually seen him appear in any footage just yet on New Donk City.

Watched this match expecting him to put an appearance in but nothing? Buh?

Something to keep an eye on perhaps! If it turns out you're right, we're throwing a god damn Mario Party in here.
 
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Mariomaniac45213

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Question: do you think the presence of Captain Toad on New Donk City has yet to be brought up/discussed because maybe he started as a background element before they confirmed he was DLC? Some optimistic speculation!
God I hope so. I just want one DLC character I actually give a damn about this time. Smash 4's DLC none of them I cared about besides I guess Mewtwo but he wasn't a full blown newcomer. Lucas I could care less if he was here or there, Roy same as well (even though I enjoy playing as him), Cloud couldn't stand his inclusion, Bayonetta while I love as a character now having played her games on Switch at the time her inclusion pissed me off, Ryu was an extreme meh, and Corrin was an ad to add onto an already robust line-up of FE characters. I ended up buying all of them eventually just to complete the roster and make my friends (who didn't own Wii U's or 3DS's) happy. This time I don't plan on buying any characters I don't give a crap about because this time all my friends have Switch's and will be getting Ultimate. All I want is 1 of the following: Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, or Bandana Dee.
 
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All I want is 1 of the following: Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, or Bandana Dee.
Heeey! That's my exact same core wishlist for DLC too! What I like to refer to as the 'Nintendo All Star' lineup.

I hear you with the DLC. I didn't bother purchasing Lucas myself in the end. I'd already played him in Brawl and honestly he never did much for me. When I tell people I didn't buy the full roster I get weird looks. Crazy.
 
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God I hope so. I just want one DLC character I actually give a damn about this time. Smash 4's DLC none of them I cared about besides I guess Mewtwo but he wasn't a full blown newcomer. Lucas I could care less if he was here or there, Roy same as well (even though I enjoy playing as him), Cloud couldn't stand his inclusion, Bayonetta while I love as a character now having played her games on Switch at the time her inclusion pissed me off, Ryu was an extreme meh, and Corrin was an ad to add onto an already robust line-up of FE characters. I ended up buying all of them eventually just to complete the roster and make my friends (who didn't own Wii U's or 3DS's) happy. This time I don't plan on buying any characters I don't give a crap about because this time all my friends have Switch's and will be getting Ultimate. All I want is 1 of the following: Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, or Bandana Dee.
I agree! Not that it is a huge point, but I think having DLC that isn't known to just hardcore smash fans will help sell DLC as well. For example, if Captain Toad is well recognized by younger fans (in addition to those hardcore fans who do want Toad playable), it could help drive sales. Here's hoping that's something Nintendo considered when choosing the DLC!
 
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hey lay off lucas guys
I know he's had a hard life, but trust me...I wouldn't have purchased the Ice Climbers, Snake or Young Link either if they'd been up for DLC.

I agree! Not that it is a huge point, but I think having DLC that isn't known to just hardcore smash fans will help sell DLC as well. For example, if Captain Toad is well recognized by younger fans (in addition to those hardcore fans who do want Toad playable), it could help drive sales. Here's hoping that's something Nintendo considered when choosing the DLC!
Strong agree. One of Toad's best features is he's known by literally everyone, both old and new fans alike and the entire world over. That makes him more marketable than...well half the roster:

Roughly-this.png


This is a rough list of where I think Toad is on the Smash Roster recognisability chart.
You could argue Pokemon Trainer, Zelda, and the other two Links also belong above him and maybe Toadette is around Jr-Daisy tier, but overall c'mon. Only the super heavy weight stars are more famous than him. Toad would make BANK as DLC.

Oops, I picked on Lucas again.
 

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I know he's had a hard life, but trust me...I wouldn't have purchased the Ice Climbers, Snake or Young Link either if they'd been up for DLC.



Strong agree. One of Toad's best features is he's known by literally everyone, both old and new fans alike and the entire world over. That makes him more marketable than...well half the roster:

View attachment 177223

This is a rough list of where I think Toad is on the Smash Roster recognisability chart.
You could argue Pokemon Trainer, Zelda, and the other two Links also belong above him and maybe Toadette is around Jr-Daisy tier, but overall c'mon. Only the super heavy weight stars are more famous than him. Toad would make BANK as DLC.

Oops, I picked on Lucas again.
i dont think you can really say toad is more famous than cloud or megaman, or mewtwo, pokemon trainer is more of a representation of trainers themselves rather than red so in that regard hes as famous as pikachu and you cant really say one link is less famous than another link of course if you want to have them be separate on the chart then dr mario should be less famous and young link should probably be more famous due to how high regard everyone still hold oot in fact you should definitely have zelda and ganondorf up there as well


also lets just not go down the road of insulting any characters ok


well ill allow insults at daisy and the fake ballot winner
 
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i dont think you can really say toad is more famous than cloud or megaman, or mewtwo, pokemon trainer is more of a representation of trainers themselves rather than red so in that regard hes as famous as pikachu and you cant really say one link is less famous than another link of course if you want to have them be separate on the chart then dr mario should be less famous and young link should probably be more famous due to how high regard everyone still hold oot in fact you should definitely have zelda and ganondorf up there as well
I genuinely do think more people on the street would recognise Toad than Cloud or Megaman honestly.
Toad has merchandise everywhere and is one of the most famous faces in Mario to the point even if those don't know his name they'd recognise him as "the mushroom guy from Mario". Mewtwo? I'm not sure honestly of the two who'd get the most "Oh yeah that guy!" Charizard would for sure, as would Squirtle but not sure on Ivysaur as their line has never been pushed as much as the other two Kanto starters and being a middle evolution.

Like I said, I think you can put the Links together, albeit I'm not sure which face is most famous.

Ganondorf is definitely not as famous due to being in fewer games and having shared half his life with the pig form, Zelda having limited merchandise with his face on it and Zelda's look changes constantly so she may get mistaken for a different character which is the only reason I put her below our boy but as I said you could make a decent argument for Pokemon Trainer and Zelda to be put above.

Point is; Toad's definitely well known and more so than a lot of the cast giving him marketability for DLC.
 

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The only thing I would contest about Toad's recognizability is that Kirby might be more recognized than him. While his games don't sell as well as Mario titles do, everyone still seems to know who he is on sight. (Granted, probably some regional variation there.)

EDIT: Oh, and Miis + Wii Fit Trainer. Miis are more recognized than even Sonic, and Wii Fit is at least on Ryu's level.
 
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fogbadge

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I genuinely do think more people on the street would recognise Toad than Cloud or Megaman honestly.
Toad has merchandise everywhere and is one of the most famous faces in Mario to the point even if those don't know his name they'd recognise him as "the mushroom guy from Mario". Mewtwo? I'm not sure honestly of the two who'd get the most "Oh yeah that guy!" Charizard would for sure, as would Squirtle but not sure on Ivysaur as their line has never been pushed as much as the other two Kanto starters and being a middle evolution.

Like I said, I think you can put the Links together, albeit I'm not sure which face is most famous.

Ganondorf is definitely not as famous due to being in fewer games and having shared half his life with the pig form, Zelda having limited merchandise with his face on it and Zelda's look changes constantly so she may get mistaken for a different character which is the only reason I put her below our boy but as I said you could make a decent argument for Pokemon Trainer and Zelda to be put above.

Point is; Toad's definitely well known and more so than a lot of the cast giving him marketability for DLC.
toad is defiantly famous im just not sure if hed be more recognisable as some of the others, all the most well known zelda games usually feature all three of the triforce trio

of course toad (as a race at least) are in pretty much every mario game which certainly helps his familiarity and would certainly make him more recognisable than a lot of the others
 

Mariomaniac45213

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Ryu more popular/recognizable than Toad? I don't know about that one. I think people seriously overestimate the reach of the Street Fighter franchise to more casual people/players. I bet if you show a soccer mom a picture of a Toad she will either get his name or at least say something like "The mushroom guy from Mario", show her a picture of Ryu and I bet she goes "some karate guy".
 

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toad is defiantly famous im just not sure if hed be more recognisable as some of the others, all the most well known zelda games usually feature all three of the triforce trio

of course toad (as a race at least) are in pretty much every mario game which certainly helps his familiarity and would certainly make him more recognisable than a lot of the others
While you're right that Zelda games normally have Link, Zelda, and Ganon/dorf, Link is still undoubtedly the most recognizable...though that might be because his appearance is more consistent than Zelda's or Ganon's.
Ryu more popular/recognizable than Toad? I don't know about that one. I think people seriously overestimate the reach of the Street Fighter franchise to more casual people/players. I bet if you show a soccer mom a picture of a Toad she will either get his name or at least say something like "The mushroom guy from Mario", show her a picture of Ryu and I bet she goes "some karate guy".
Yeah, Ryu may be well-known, but he's not mainstream like Mario characters are. Have to agree with you on that one.
 
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All Gen 1 Pokemon should be in the "more famous" category. Pokemon Go was a bigger success than Super Mario Run.
 
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Its definitely strange that no one has been able to spot Captain Toad in any of the footage so far of New Donk City. There is a small possibility that Captain Toad might have been a beta element that got removed, or more likely, Captain Toad rarely makes appearances in the background to the stage (think about how rarely Ridley and King Dedede would make their cameos in the background to Planet Zebes and Dream Land respectively).

This is yet another question that might not be answered until Ultimate's release.


All I want is 1 of the following: Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, or Bandana Dee.
I feel very good on Bandana Dee's prospects. No spirit has been spotted for him yet, which is extremely bizarre considering there are multiple games for them to pull artwork of the character from. Dixie Kong might be already de-confirmed if having a spirit is a deconfirmation (yes, I know about the spirits of playable characters, those are fighter spirits, and are not able to be equipped like regular spirits). If Bandana Dee, Elma, and Pirahna Plant also show up with spirits in Ultimate, then Dixie Kong might actually be in the running to be DLC.
 

Arcadenik

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If, after all the DLC fighters are revealed, Toad is still not in... I hope Sakurai and/or Nintendo reveals the characters Nintendo suggested to Sakurai. I’d like to know if Nintendo suggested Toad to Sakurai.
 

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You know, I was rooting for Captain Toad before we saw gameplay of Ultimate and then along the way I'd figure he wasn't gonna be in it. But now, since Sakurai confirmed that Nintendo has decided the DLC or at least suggested DLC to Sakurai, it makes me think that perhaps Captain Toad is more plausible now.
 

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You know, I was rooting for Captain Toad before we saw gameplay of Ultimate and then along the way I'd figure he wasn't gonna be in it. But now, since Sakurai confirmed that Nintendo has decided the DLC or at least suggested DLC to Sakurai, it makes me think that perhaps Captain Toad is more plausible now.
well we're worried that sakurai would deliberate try to avoid him
 

Arcadenik

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well we're worried that sakurai would deliberate try to avoid him
Oh I believe Sakurai is already deliberately avoiding adding Toad as a playable fighter.

Peach’s Toad now punches and headbutts. Why did Sakurai suddenly change Peach’s Toad after three games?

I believe it was Sakurai’s way of throwing Toad fans a bone and saying “See? Toad can punch people. Happy now?” while giving Toad the biggest snub by adding a clone Echo Fighter with a blue Toad and a generic Mario enemy as an unique newcomer.
 

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Oh I believe Sakurai is already deliberately avoiding adding Toad as a playable fighter.

Peach’s Toad now punches and headbutts. Why did Sakurai suddenly change Peach’s Toad after three games?

I believe it was Sakurai’s way of throwing Toad fans a bone and saying “See? Toad can punch people. Happy now?” while giving Toad the biggest snub by adding a clone Echo Fighter with a blue Toad and a generic Mario enemy as an unique newcomer.
yeah its harder and harder not to believe hes not doing it on purpose
 
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But the Final Smash Direct said "While Rex didn't quite make the roster... Hopefully, this helps you feel like you're playing as him."

So... Sakurai is giving us Rex Mii costume as DLC so we can pretend we are playing as Rex instead of giving us Rex as one of five DLC fighters so we can actually play as Rex.

Just doesn't make sense to give us a Rex Mii costume as DLC when they could have given us Rex as a DLC fighter.
Because it takes a ton of time to develop a fighter. Sakurai brings forward the potential newcomers from the start, they decide who stays and doesn't, and spend the rest of the time that's focused on the roster on developing newcomers and tweaking veterans. The final roster was decided upon before XC2 was even finished, you can't blame Sakurai for Rex not being a fighter. If Rex was a fighter, the game would have been delayed for a few months.
 

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Because it takes a ton of time to develop a fighter. Sakurai brings forward the potential newcomers from the start, they decide who stays and doesn't, and spend the rest of the time that's focused on the roster on developing newcomers and tweaking veterans. The final roster was decided upon before XC2 was even finished, you can't blame Sakurai for Rex not being a fighter. If Rex was a fighter, the game would have been delayed for a few months.
whats that got to do with him as dlc?
 
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whats that got to do with him as dlc?
Because DLC has already been decided and they're not going to use up one of the extremely limited amount of spots they have to use with a character who's already well represented. I said this about ATs as well.

If Rex happens to be DLC, I'll eat my words and explode with hype.
 
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A Mii costume doesn't mean much to begin with. It was there simply because Rex couldn't be base roster.

It doesn't mean much for DLC. AT's are a lot different from costumes. However, Rex being a DLC costume makes me think he wouldn't be part of the Season Pass(the first one, possibly), so he might be a later character. He might not be.

Toad is in a weird position right now. The regular version is pretty clearly part of regular gameplay. The thing about the Chrom situation is he shows up for a quick cutscene otherwise. Mii costume should be meaningless, though, on its own. On the other hand, Captain Toad is just a small stage piece. He's about as interactive as Duck Hunt was, which is barely much at all. Or Tingle. I'd put both Captain Toad and Tingle among the "they have a pretty decent chance as DLC options, but may not get in as easily as those without gameplay appearances". And I don't mean Spirits or Costumes. I mean stage parts.
 
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I....I just don't get it.
I want to believe that Toad not being in the game is unjustified, I just can't see why it would mean Sakurai is biased against the character and not for any other reason. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone convince me I'm wrong, or has Sakurai said anything against Toad?
 
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I....I just don't get it.
I want to believe that Toad not being in the game is unjustified, I just can't see why it would mean Sakurai is biased against the character and not for any other reason. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone convince me I'm wrong, or has Sakurai said anything against Toad?
He's said nothing more than he can't think of a way to make him fight.

That's... it. There is no honest bias. He just hasn't been inspired yet. At the very least Toad is fighting in some way, so it's a start. In a later game, he could get inspiration. Who knows.
 
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He's said nothing more than he can't think of a way to make him fight.

That's... it. There is no honest bias. He just hasn't been inspired yet. At the very least Toad is fighting in some way, so it's a start. In a later game, he could get inspiration. Who knows.
I do not think Sakurai has ever talked about Toad at all in relation to playable status. I think the closest to a statement he had on Toad was that he remarked that Toad's Japanese name (Kinopio) is similar to Pinnochio.
 
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I do not think Sakurai has ever talked about Toad at all in relation to playable status. I think the closest to a statement he had on Toad was that he remarked that Toad's Japanese name (Kinopio) is similar to Pinnochio.
No, he talked about characters that he couldn't figure out how to make playable. Toad and Villager were among the same stuff at the time.
 

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Because DLC has already been decided and they're not going to use up one of the extremely limited amount of spots they have to use with a character who's already well represented. I said this about ATs as well.

If Rex happens to be DLC, I'll eat my words and explode with hype.
well a key difference is the costume is ready for launch while the dlc isnt so its perfectly reasonable to think he decided on the free costume before he decided on the 5 characters

I....I just don't get it.
I want to believe that Toad not being in the game is unjustified, I just can't see why it would mean Sakurai is biased against the character and not for any other reason. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone convince me I'm wrong, or has Sakurai said anything against Toad?
sakurai has never said anything about toad, but the fact that hes a major character in nintendo biggest franchise who is constantly looked over in favour of other characters it does begin to feel like hes trying to avoid him after a while
 

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Because it takes a ton of time to develop a fighter. Sakurai brings forward the potential newcomers from the start, they decide who stays and doesn't, and spend the rest of the time that's focused on the roster on developing newcomers and tweaking veterans. The final roster was decided upon before XC2 was even finished, you can't blame Sakurai for Rex not being a fighter. If Rex was a fighter, the game would have been delayed for a few months.
Actually yes, I can blame Sakurai for Rex not being a playable fighter. Sakurai himself said they haven’t even started development on DLC Fighters besides Piranha Plant. They will start working on DLC Fighters after the game comes out. So no, the game won’t be delayed for a few months just for Rex.

Oh, and the roster was decided upon before Sun and Moon were even finished. Sakurai himself admitted there’s a Pokémon slot when he was talking about Incineroar.
 

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I know he talked about Villager, but I definitely do no remember Toad. Do you have a link to back your claim? Because this is the first time I have ever heard anything about this.
It's very difficult to find it, but it was among the same thing that talked about why Villager wasn't playable. I'm still looking.

It's not the Famitsu column either. It was a page that had two pictures, one of Toad, and one of Villager. There was also something about Nintendogs, if I remember right.

And I must've misremembered it wrong. Welp, never mind. Closest thing was he knew people wanted Toad in from the Melee polls, at least. So it's not like he lacks knowledge. Same with others(like Banjo & Kazooie). Regardless, if Toad isn't playable yet... it just means he hasn't thought of him being playable as a feasible option or it means he has no ideas. There's no reason to believe he hates the character or anything. That's just silly.
 
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