To those who say characters are "Broken"

[Runawayfire]

i just dont like the fact that chars like DDD and Falco have turned smash into a wrestleling game.

What melee were you playing? The one without Sheik and Marth?

 

[Sosuke]

...If he gets out of hitstun fast enough to C4 recover, you didn't hit him hard enough. >.>

I was quoting people in above posts. >_>

 

[PK Hexagon]

People don't call him broken for being completely unbeatable, it's not a literal term. Broken is used when a character is noticeably unbalanced. You actually need a spike, a good projectile and/or good weight to have a fair match against him, which in my opinion, makes him at least a bit overpowered.

You do realize that this same formula could be applied to every character in the game, correct? For D3 you need to be small and have a good projectile, for Marth you need to have a spammable projectile and/ or a disjointed hitbox, for Meta-Knight you need to be Snake, etc, etc. A character with two hard counters, one soft counter, and a bunch of neutral match-ups isn't noticeably unbalanced. He's just noticeably good.

I personally think MK is not as overpowered, since he lacks range, weight and some strenght.

...Ugh. 6 months later people are still saying things like this. Lacks range? He outranges ****ing Marth. Weight is irrelevant for MK since he deals damage twice as fast as everyone else. By the time he's in the killing percentages he'll have already taken a stock. Same with strength. His two kill moves come out outrageously fast, so as long as they're not deteriorated he's perfectly fine. Of course, his gimping game is first class, so its not like he always has to depend on straight KOs anyway.

Someone tell me, Snake is always put above MK in the theory tier lists because of better tournament results and because he wins that particular matchup, correct?

 

[BentoBox]

The nado outprioritizes every single move in Peach's arsenal. Tell me how that isn't broken :[. </3

You may proceed to explain me how superior l33t mindgames will get me through. ramble ramble.

 

[AlexX]

I won 40 dollars using Snake on Monday. It was worth it, but hey, my opponent and I normally don't use who we used. He's normally a Toon Link and picked MK, I'm normally Olimar/G&W and picked Snake. We had a little laugh on it.

Considering G&W and Olimar are generally accepted to be really good, I somehow doubt you wouldn't have won that $40 if you had gone with either of them instead.

 

[DanGR]

I'd be willing to bet that MK has priority over life. Now tell me that's not broken.

 

[cutter]

- Akuma in SF2 is broken because he destroyed virtually all the fighting cast.
- Tolarian Academy in Magic the Gathering is broken because it generates ridiculous amounts of mana that fueled easy first turn kills.
- Raigeki in Yugioh is broken because it wipes out your opponent's entire army FOR FREE.

Snake and Metaknight however, aren't broken. They can be beaten just like any other character. They are REALLY good in the right hands, but for them to be broken it means anybody can pick them up and easily wipe out everyone else and get very very easy wins.

 

[rathy Aro]

Raigeki's not broken. =P Unless you're playing without traps. Actually it's a lot like snake. Really good, most people use it, but can be countered if you're expecting it.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

haven't u seen the power when Falcon Punches collide? I'll show a replay showing the epicness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CKE4XIe6qE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO5eewN3sF0

hehehe lol

 

[ChronoPenguin]

the first 1 stupid funny, I actually fell to the floor

 

[cutter]

Raigeki's not broken. =P Unless you're playing without traps. Actually it's a lot like snake. Really good, most people use it, but can be countered if you're expecting it.

Tell me then, why is Raigeki banned if you think it's not broken?
http://www.yugioh-cards.net/Merchant2/store/yugioh-banned-list.html

The exact same ability (nuke all your opponent's creatures) costs NINE mana (Plague Wind) in Magic the Gathering, which if you've played the game at all takes a very long time to obtain. Compared to MTG, Yugioh is a very imbalanced game.

Raigeki is an "oops I win" card that even a noob can pick up and dominate with it. You play Raigeki and your opponent is as good as lost if it resolves.

 

[Linkguy]

Brawl is both broken and not broken, depending on how you define broken. If everyones definition of broken was the same then there would be no argument. No one actually believes that its actually impossible to beat a Snake or a MK(unless you c. falcon that is). The people that call them broken dont mean it literally.

And Cutter is right. Yes Raigeki is totally broken. Not only does is clear your opponents monster card zone FOR FREE but it makes all other monster card destruction cards obsolete. If this card wasnt banned then it would be in absolutely every deck, replacing all other forms of monster card destruction.

 

[Super Mari0]

snake is broken so shad up

you cant do anything against a very good snake.
you cant

 

[rm88]

You do realize that this same formula could be applied to every character in the game, correct? For D3 you need to be small and have a good projectile, for Marth you need to have a spammable projectile and/ or a disjointed hitbox, for Meta-Knight you need to be Snake, etc, etc. A character with two hard counters, one soft counter, and a bunch of neutral match-ups isn't noticeably unbalanced. He's just noticeably good.

First of all, I don't want to sound like I'm stating my opinion as a fact >_< It' just that, my opinion, and is completely based on my personal experience. Snake has weaknesses like every character does, but I think they are few compared to the rest of the cast, and his strenghts really outweigh his weaknesses. If there's something remotely close to an overpowered character in SSB, I think Snake is by far the best example. I used to beat Fox/Falco with Kirby (the 3rd worst character) in Melee, and I never felt at such a disadvantage against any character while using him. Let me reiterate, this is just me.

About MK... I don't know, maybe I haven't faced a really good one yet. I do think his weight is relevant, I can actually KO him at low percentages, while I have to struggle both to rack up damage and to KO Snake before he outpriorizes my every move most of the time. I've been told I need to be less offensive against Snake, so it may just be me. MK's tornado is scary, but I'm more afraid of Snakes tilts anyway ~_~

 

[PK Hexagon]

snake is broken so shad up

you cant do anything against a very good snake.
you cant

You can be ROB, Olimar, or DK.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

easy way to beat a snake.

Pull out his Controller, thats the ol' fashioned way.

 

[samdaballer]

you can also you the so called "broken" character in the game, so stop *****ing

 

[Mewtario]

We need an easy way to beat Tabuu

He is B-R-O-K-E-N

 

[GoForkUrself]

We umm, what's the **** word... Oh that's right, we exaggerate. None of us think characters are broken in Brawl, we just exaggerate, a common human thing to do(that Uptilt was from 5 miles away!).

 

[Dyxnar14]

Yeah snake is sure being called broken everywhere but its true even the most brokeness characters have disadvantages. Rob has advantage against Snake and so does DK. and the point he cant be KOed quickly is because hes heavier then DDD and man DDD is hard to KO.

 

[iDizZzY]

let me repeat: you have to exploit their weaknesses. obviously there are better characters i than others. thats why people use them

 

[TWILTHERO]

let me repeat: you have to exploit their weaknesses. obviously there are better characters i than others. thats why people use them

Pretty much

 

[Testament27]

when people say a character is broken, they are only exaggerating. I would hope that when people make comments like "mk/snake is so brokens" that they dont actually mean the characters are unbeatable.

mk is actually a somewhat balanced char imo.

 

[El Frosty]

give it three months and one of three things will happen:

1: a glitch similar to wavedashing will be discovered and exploited to hell and back, completly changing the criteria for good and bad characters, shuffleing the tier list (who knows, even bowser might make god tier given the werdest game breaking "advanced technique" imaginable)
2: players will have finally got used to sanke and developed their own anti-snake and anti-MK strategies, and thus reduced the proliferation of snake & MK mains that do well in competitions. seriously, there are ways to counter the so-called broken tecniques, and in the case of snake a lot of these are *very* predictable. (his ftilt less so but hey, talkin theoretical here)
3: everyone gives up and plays either snake or MK, and the only strategies from the pros are snake vs MK and MK vs snake matchups, this goes on for the entire life of brawl and peiple start complaining of it same way people moaned about shiek, space furries & marth from melee. chaos rules and people hope for a new melee which addresses them, but instead removes footstool hopping, removes dashing altogether and makes you randomly fall asleep when stood still to prevent mindgames...

i have predicted it... so shall it be!

 

[Nintendo_lord]

Broken-A game object or facility that is too good to exist. It is so powerful that it is unbalancing and hence breaks the game. Every winning player has to use this to be competitive.

that is not true, a competative player DOES NOT need to use snake, Metaknight, GaW or D3 to win.
People have won with Wario, Lucario, Falco, and even Pikachu has won a few tournaments.
I even heard of a bowser and DK placing high in canada and the midwest

1. That isn't the definition of broken, broken means incredibly powerful, but not game-breakingly powerful. Snake is indeed in fact broken because he isn't campable because of his crouch by most characters, his recovery isn't gimpable if you know how to do it right, and honestly how big a target is Snake?!
2. Pikachu and Falco are amazing, how can you doubt it?

 

[Puddin]

snake outcamped?are you sure?

Ever use Snake against a good Olimar?

 

[PK Hexagon]

mk is actually a somewhat balanced char imo.

*facepalm*

 

[MookieRah]

1: a glitch similar to wavedashing will be discovered and exploited to hell and back, completly changing the criteria for good and bad characters, shuffleing the tier list (who knows, even bowser might make god tier given the werdest game breaking "advanced technique" imaginable)

Not very likely.

2: players will have finally got used to sanke and developed their own anti-snake and anti-MK strategies, and thus reduced the proliferation of snake & MK mains that do well in competitions. seriously, there are ways to counter the so-called broken tecniques, and in the case of snake a lot of these are *very* predictable. (his ftilt less so but hey, talkin theoretical here)

While this is partly true I very much doubt the anti-Snake/MK strats would cause a significant drop in their rankings. Just look at Shiek from Melee, she dropped a bit after people got used to fighting her, but she was still an excellent character. I think the things that make MK and Snake really good though are even harder to deal with than Sheik, so my bet is that they will become easier to beat, but they will still be at the top regardless.

 

[LavisFiend]

It was foretold long before the game was made that Snake and Metaknight would be godly.

After all, Snake IS Melee Captain Falcon without the techs; the captain falcon in Brawl is Rick Wheeler.

and Metaknight? Well, everyone wanted him, and MK is Sakurai's baby...

So naturally he would be insanely good.

 

[MarKO X]

If your definition of broken is a character that does breaks the generally rules of the game (by having technical abilities on the programming level, such as no lag, cancelled frame rates, intense speed of attack, no truly exploitable weakness, etc.), then no one in Brawl is broken.

If your definition of broken is a character that has certain abilities that makes him/her make the transformation from SSJ to SSJ2 or even SSJ3, then Snake and MK do qualify as broken. Hell, the only reason Fox isn't deemed "broken" in this game is because of the lack of combos. This ***** can still shine spike your ***, still has unnecessary power in his uair that eliminates at like 100% (which is pretty **** good for Brawl, but of course its more or less depending on the weight of the opponent), still has **** good priority (unless someone else can tell me otherwise), and is still pretty **** fast.

So my conclusion is this, if Snake and MK are broken, then so was Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth, Peach, and Captain Falcon from brawl. And Gil from Street Fighter 3: Third Strike and Shin Akuma and U. Rugal in Capcom vs. SNK 2 are little immortal drops from hell.

But do you wanna know what's the difference between Smash "broken" characters and Shin Akuma, U. Rugal, and Gil? Shin Akuma, U. Rugal, and Gil were designed to be broken.

 

[juki]

Take a look at my sig

 

[FBM]

You do realize that this same formula could be applied to every character in the game, correct? For D3 you need to be small and have a good projectile, for Marth you need to have a spammable projectile and/ or a disjointed hitbox, for Meta-Knight you need to be Snake, etc, etc. A character with two hard counters, one soft counter, and a bunch of neutral match-ups isn't noticeably unbalanced. He's just noticeably good.



...Ugh. 6 months later people are still saying things like this. Lacks range? He outranges ****ing Marth. Weight is irrelevant for MK since he deals damage twice as fast as everyone else. By the time he's in the killing percentages he'll have already taken a stock. Same with strength. His two kill moves come out outrageously fast, so as long as they're not deteriorated he's perfectly fine. Of course, his gimping game is first class, so its not like he always has to depend on straight KOs anyway.

Someone tell me, Snake is always put above MK in the theory tier lists because of better tournament results and because he wins that particular matchup, correct?

Ya I think that's basically it - being the worst matchup for the otherwise best character in the game goes a long way.

 

[ducky285]

Akuma was banned in Super Street Fighter II Turbo because he did massive damage and his air fireball was near impossible to counter. He is banned in the U.S. and I believe soft banned in Japan.

Speaking of soft banning, the Old version of Sagat is soft banned in Super Turbo due to his ridiculously fast recovering tiger shots. People can still pick him and no one will DQ them but it's something of an agreement NOT to pick him.

Gill is banned in 3S because he simply is not playable in the arcade. Even then, he's far too good to be using in a serious tourney. Same goes for Dizzy in Guilty Gear X, Justice on GG and GGXX and Kliff in GGXX.

The reason for banning such characters is to encourage variety in tournaments. If Akuma were allowed in ST, EVERYONE would use him. There would be no reason not to given that he's so much better than everyone else.

Brawl may see a situation similar to Old Sagat's if Snake continues to dominate. I don't think he's so good that he's unbeatable, but he might be so good that there leaves very little reason not to use him all the time. Might be a decision that could help the competitive game should it ever begin to falter.

Just a thought, but it has a decent chance of happening. I don't see it happening anytime soon, though.

 

[PK Hexagon]

Brawl may see a situation similar to Old Sagat's if Snake continues to dominate. I don't think he's so good that he's unbeatable, but he might be so good that there leaves very little reason not to use him all the time.

Fox, lol.

Anyway, no one's reading my replies. Once more with feeling: How does a character with 2 hard counters and 10 or so neutral matchups constitute a ban? Sometimes I really wish Snake didn't win that matchup vs MK. Then we wouldn't even be discussing this.

 

[Megavitamins]

Snake is possible to beat, but he's so much better than the whole cast, he has like 2 counters, but IMO they go just go even with. If you want, I can go in depth about why he is so unfairly broken in this game

 

[Sean²]

IC's alternating grabs are pretty broken IMO.

 

[Samuelson]

M2 is the most broken character in Brawl, they knew that if they added him that everybody would complain about how good he is

 

[Crank]

And thats a bad thing how?
discussing a simple truth like saying Snake > Falcon?

Lol, I'm sure theres no need to discuss the probable outcome of a match between the #1 Character in the game and the #39.

M2 is the most broken character in Brawl, they knew that if they added him that everybody would complain about how good he is

I Lol'd.

Meh, I don't really think anyone can be classified as a broken character as of yet, but Snake is pretty freaking close.

 

[PK Hexagon]

If you want, I can go in depth about why he is so unfairly broken in this game

There's no need. Most of us that are reasonable have already come to the conclusion that Snake isn't broken, at least in terms of traditional fighting games. You'd just be arguing that he is good, which I and everyone else concedes.

I'm simply challenging that he is the best character in the game.

 

[mc4]

obviously how good any character plays depends on the person, usually when someone says a character is broken perhaps they mean the person using that character if a person is really good then the character they use is called broken it seems. In my honest opinion from what i've seen the only characters that actually have a broken potential (unbeatable period) are the ic, once a person learns the timing for their chain grabs and all the other cute ice climber tricks (the ice climbers freeze locks for example) i do think they are the closest to broken.