To clear things up

[Deleted member]

I see that 200th post
Eliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[RvlvRBobcat]

Was that necessary? ._.

He hasn't really contributed anything knowledgeable, ignore him.

 

[bubbaking]

If someone beats you with your own character and they DON'T use that character in any way, you should feel like crap, it means you suck.

It's really hard to find top players who don't play a lot of characters "in any way". Otherwise, I'm pretty sure M2K could make a lot of actually decent players qualify as sucking. I'm pretty sure what Nipps meant is that Rolex is good with a lot of chars (whom he uses a lot in friendlies) and oftentimes, those chars will be the same char that you use.

 

[The Father]

I don't think using tournament results is a legitimate way of comparing the two. From what I know, they havn't competed in the same tourney and haven't played against the same people, so it's an invalid argument. If they attended the same tourneys, then yeah, it would be fine. Rolex lost to M2K, but Prof might have been able to beat him. Rolex might have been able to take 1st place in all the UK tourneys Prof attended. That being said, the Armada thing isn't too fair either, since Rolex didn't play him. I'd just compare their playstyles from what I see in their matches, and I'd say Prof seems to be a better player. He lands more stickies, he seems to have better movement and also a better combo game. The only good thing that Rolex does that Prof doesn't is the C4 - Uair combo, but that is easy enough to pull off. Until they actually play each other, their videos are the only thing we can fairly use to judge their skill. That's why I think Prof is better, not because I'm ignorant. Don't be so egoistic that you label those who oppose your opinion as "ignorant," lol.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Hopefully it won't be like WWII otherwise nothing will get resolved until someone flies to america and kicks Rolex in the teeth.

if this is a WWII analogy... well I'll let you figure out what happened after someone kicked America in the teeth. Let's just say it won't end well for the kicker.

Rolex lost to M2K, but Prof might have been able to beat him.

It's pretty hilarious that you think Professor Pro is one of the 5 players on the planet who can actually compete with M2K, based on absolutely nothing.

 

[Ijustbowserdyou]

Professor Pro would destroy you Rolex, and you know that.
If you were truly the better man, you would of took his call-out with a grain of salt, however you felt to make to thread to amplify the fact that your jimmies are rustled based on other people's comments.

Prof's Snake in terms of technical skills is actually way above yours.

 

[BlizzyWolf]

I remember when he started on Wolf, was epic
His playstyle flows through different characters (lol even Ness)
Now his Snake is something I always wanna see xD (Just not play against) :<
Once you have that C4 on you, you know you're gonna die D:

 

[Fortress]

PUT SOME ENGLISH ON IT, PROF.

My hype for this matchup knows no bounds.

 

[SHIP]

if this is a WWII analogy... well I'll let you figure out what happened after someone kicked America in the teeth. Let's just say it won't end well for the kicker.


It's pretty hilarious that you think Professor Pro is one of the 5 players on the planet who can actually compete with M2K, based on absolutely nothing.

I feel that drawing that parallel would only really work if Rolex were possessed of the same kind of vast resources as his country rather than simply embodying its reluctance to see to matters outside its own borders.

And on the other front he performed well (albeit in a friendly) against armada who then continued to defeat m2k. While it's hardly strong evidence, it is also not absolutely nothing.

 

[Fortress]

armada who then continued to defeat m2k. While it's hardly strong evidence, it is also not absolutely nothing.

Armada's Pit, mang... it's scary, disgusting. Hope I don't have to get no-scoped.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I feel that drawing that parallel would only really work if Rolex were possessed of the same kind of vast resources as his country rather than simply embodying its reluctance to see to matters outside its own borders.

And on the other front he performed well (albeit in a friendly) against armada who then continued to defeat m2k. While it's hardly strong evidence, it is also not absolutely nothing.

Considering the fact that Armada thought it was friendlies, and Professor Pro played it super seriously (inb4 he claims he didn't), and still barely went even, absolutely makes me think it means very little. It's certainly not proof of him being better than anyone.

Even if you believe that bull**** inui logic, Rolex still took M2K to game 5. Ya know, in tournament, where M2K was actually playing serious. Not bull**** friendlies. So don't kid yourself into thinking Rolex isn't on that level, but Pro somehow is.

 

[Fortress]

Wait, why are you guys arguing about that. You're not either of them.

 

[SHIP]

Wait, why are you guys arguing about that. You're not either of them.

Oh I'm just pointing out how the other guy is wrong (based upon stuff already stated) and making dumb WWII analogies for my own amusement.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Everyone shut up and let Prof and Rolex smack talk each other, those are the only posts worth reading.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

@ MikeHaggarTHAKJB you are the most ignorant and pathetic person i have ever spoken to in my life...theres a reason why no1 but a select few respect or listen to a thing you say. Stay free my friende

what ive said here will be proven right in time, like all of my other claims. if you had any clue about the history of me and my claims you would know that i am always right
stay butthurt

 

[#HBC | Joker]

what ive said here will be proven right in time, like all of my other claims. if you had any clue about the history of me and my claims you would know that i am always right
stay butthurt

didn't you say 2.6 Wario was complete trash, and that Lucario was easily top tier?

 

[Alpha Dash]

Was that necessary? ._.

It's a joke, this whole thread is a joke. Can't take the banter then you should be playing Lego Star Wars or Nintendogs or something.

@ Alpha Dash you live in the region of no1 good at smash besides 3 players lol.... if you came to the U.S. ud get embarrassed by 9/10 smashers here...no wonder why you guys never come to play where the real players are...

Don't you worry, I'll be embarrassing you soon that's all that matters. I can accept the fact that there are people better than me, I can still sleep at night

 

[Nguz95]

what ive said here will be proven right in time, like all of my other claims. if you had any clue about the history of me and my claims you would know that i am always right
stay butthurt

You also tried to use a political map to prove that the US was larger than Europe.
Stay butthurt.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Germany though. They have all the money. Gotta look to them to fix things too.

Give me PAL version and I will fix economy

 

[Heartstring]

By this logic you and every other player that can't go against the world's top players should always feel like crap and all suck because they could be beaten in a ditto by incredible players because using your character would not be prerequisite to them winning. Slightly off topic I know but especially for melee M2K alone could destroy 90% of players in dittos with every character in the roster. Brawl I know far less about but that is some horrid, horrid logic there GP

It's really hard to find top players who don't play a lot of characters "in any way". Otherwise, I'm pretty sure M2K could make a lot of actually decent players qualify as sucking. I'm pretty sure what Nipps meant is that Rolex is good with a lot of chars (whom he uses a lot in friendlies) and oftentimes, those chars will be the same char that you use.

what I MEANT was that if you get beaten by someone who doesnt use your character in any way, then you ought to re-evaluate whats going on with your fundamentals AND your character knowledge.
Besides, if you're not in the top 100 or so, then you can stand to improve a lot. Myself included of course!

 

[batistabus]

Rolex still took M2K to game 5. Ya know, in tournament, where M2K was actually playing serious. Not bull**** friendlies. So don't kid yourself into thinking Rolex isn't on that level, but Pro somehow is.

Most recent encounter: 0-3. 1st match = 2 stock, 2nd match = 1 stock low percent, 3rd match = 2 stock. Not exactly close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgqqZ8OuSHM

 

[NiPPs]

What I mean by rolexrs random characters is fox falco and meta knight lol. Youse are the random characters he plays against us usually I'd love too see you beat one of them. What gp said is completely true and simple facts no need to take that offensively. I'm not the one losing sleep at night lol. At the end if the day this is a game and without trash talk it can't be played to the fullest. Trash talk leads to the hype. I would love to play you alpha dash. I got nothing nothing to lose but a few bucks

To the above post: Rolex has taken m2k to game five at every local. Obviously he didn't do his best against him at apex but he made m2k stop playing falco since rolexes metaknight beat it pretty well.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

didn't you say 2.6 Wario was complete trash, and that Lucario was easily top tier?

i exaggareted on my opinion on wario, he's midtier.
lucario is easily top tier, especially now. if you think otherwise you're ********.

 

[Alpha Dash]

What I mean by rolexrs random characters is fox falco and meta knight lol. Youse are the random characters he plays against us usually I'd love too see you beat one of them. What gp said is completely true and simple facts no need to take that offensively. I'm not the one losing sleep at night lol. At the end if the day this is a game and without trash talk it can't be played to the fullest. Trash talk leads to the hype. I would love to play you alpha dash. I got nothing nothing to lose but a few bucks

$20 MM? Melee and PM? I'm going to try and make Genesis or the next Major event in the States. More Americans should attend European tournaments. Fair enough there are more better players overall but seems like Europe STILL have to go to America to prove their skill.

 

[Nguz95]

i exaggareted on my opinion on wario, he's midtier.
lucario is easily top tier, especially now. if you think otherwise you're ********.

Top tier implies that he is in the top 5 at the very least. It's strong language. I have a hard time thinking a character with such limited approach options can compete with Fox and Falco...

 

[Seagull Joe]

Rolex isn't the best in the world. Ally is the best in the world.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Pretty sure PM Snake would wreck Brawl Snake ^^

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

limited approach options

LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[NiPPs]

$20 MM? Melee and PM? I'm going to try and make Genesis or the next Major event in the States. More Americans should attend European tournaments. Fair enough there are more better players overall but seems like Europe STILL have to go to America to prove their skill.

sure man im down :D i dont play melee though haha so pm it is if you guys/ rolex and i can even attend this tourny whenever it is. cant see why we wont be able to though. like alpha said this thread is a joke based on **** talk. cant deal with it, leave.

 

[Matty89]

Most recent encounter: 0-3. 1st match = 2 stock, 2nd match = 1 stock low percent, 3rd match = 2 stock. Not exactly close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgqqZ8OuSHM

Clearly on his level.

 

[Heartstring]

What I mean by rolexrs random characters is fox falco and meta knight lol. Youse are the random characters he plays against us usually I'd love too see you beat one of them. What gp said is completely true and simple facts no need to take that offensively. I'm not the one losing sleep at night lol. At the end if the day this is a game and without trash talk it can't be played to the fullest. Trash talk leads to the hype

Mad props to NiPPs for getting it.
That said, I'm awful at P:M anyways, I pretty much play brawl exclusively

 

[Nguz95]

LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHA

Explain your reasoning. Here's a quote from Oro!?, who's most certainly better than you, to back up my claim. I'm expecting something more than a flip response.

The problem with Lucario is that his best approaches to get in are dash attack, downB, and cross up downB on someones shield. The funny thing being that you defend against all of those options at the same exact range. That leaves basically trying to poke with fair, and mixing up downB in/out as safe pressure. I'm sure someone can go ham with like fair->ASC->dair->ASC-> command grab on a shield, but that is a hell of a lot of buttons for a short hop. It's also likely not safe despite the cancels against things like Bowser/Snake. So basically, now that we have come to realize Lucario cannot approach unless someone is committing to options in some way in neutral, you probably have to use an aura charge to downB super cancel approach. Good thing you have one at the start of every stock. Don't waste it.

 

[NAKAT]

Sidebets!!!???

$25 on Rolex

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

who's most certainly better than you

don't be so sure

if youre miles away so you cant get hit by down b canceled into anything (canceled into grab if they shield) youre at a safe range to spam projectiles, or taunt, or take a ****
it is mentioned, but since 3.0 you have aura all the time. you start with aura and if a hit does not lead to death you suck, and if it does not get you enough hits to get new aura charge you should kill yourself

even without aura he still has a good approach, his fair has great range, very little lag, is always safe if it connects regardless of when you did it in your jump
the thing about lucario is that he gets grabs from hitting someones shield, his fair is fast and has great range, and it always leads to something

sure **** can still be dd grabbed, but hey welcome to melee (or pm in this case) where everything can get countered if used incorrectly

"that is a hell of a lot of buttons" is not an argument, by that logic spacies suck ****.

if you look properly at the potential of chars, it's VERY clear that lucario is top tier

 

[Xethos]

It's a joke, this whole thread is a joke. Can't take the banter then you should be playing Lego Star Wars or Nintendogs or something.

I actually like Lego Star Wars...

 

[Oro?!]

Maybe MikeHaggar or whoever he is playing with is better than me. All I know is that poking with fair and getting out dashdanced or outranged is very prevalent among good characters. Lucario also has pretty subpar oos options too, and a common theme among the best characters is applying and dealing with pressure. That or camping, which Lucario also sucks at.

Lucario's punish game when used correctly, is out of this world. Same with his pressure game if he actually gets in.

Edit: Yeah this thread really isn't the place to be talking about Lucario though. Carry on with your Snake chats.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

^This thread.

 

[Nguz95]

Spoiler

don't be so sure

if youre miles away so you cant get hit by down b canceled into anything (canceled into grab if they shield) youre at a safe range to spam projectiles, or taunt, or take a ****
it is mentioned, but since 3.0 you have aura all the time. you start with aura and if a hit does not lead to death you suck, and if it does not get you enough hits to get new aura charge you should kill yourself

even without aura he still has a good approach, his fair has great range, very little lag, is always safe if it connects regardless of when you did it in your jump
the thing about lucario is that he gets grabs from hitting someones shield, his fair is fast and has great range, and it always leads to something

sure **** can still be dd grabbed, but hey welcome to melee (or pm in this case) where everything can get countered if used incorrectly

"that is a hell of a lot of buttons" is not an argument, by that logic spacies suck ****.

if you look properly at the potential of chars, it's VERY clear that lucario is top tier

I'm glad you seriously considered Oro's points.
Here's a recent match between two players I think you will know:

I believe this set does an excellent job of showing Lucario's strengths and weaknesses. Fuzzyess often approaches with fair, and Pro counters him repeatedly by crouch-canceling and/or using up-b oos. While both of these options are very solid for Snake, they are not on the same level as Fox and Falco's cc shine or shine oos. On final Destination we see Fuzz repeatedly get punished for dash grabbing, dash attacking, and fairing in open space. Often, when he tries to initiate the interaction, he is punished for it. Prof developed a strategy to counter fair being safe on shield, which was to avoid letting fair hit his shield. In the instance he does get caught by one of Fuzz's strings, he crouch-canceled or he used up-b oos. Prof capitalized on Lucario's weakness and used his superb punish game to beat out Fuzz.

On another note, having one solid approach option does not mean the character's approach isn't limited. When character has one solid approach option, it becomes obvious how he will approach, making him predictable. Unless the character's approach is unreasonably safe (i.e. Fox and Falco), identifying a counter-strategy is not difficult.

Another thing I noticed about this set: Prof lived beyond 120% frequently. To me, this suggests that Lucario can have a difficult time killing, which isn't surprising since his highest knockback moves are not aerials. On the other hand, Prof had no trouble killing Fuzz at lower % because Lucario's shield is incredibly tiny, his falling speed is relatively low, and his weight allows him to be juggled rather easily.

None of these issues condemn Lucario to bottom tier, but they do, in my opinion, keep him out of top tier. The characters in the top tier can control space well, approach relatively easily, and can punish mistakes without having to over-extend themselves. Lucario lacks in some of those departments, which keeps him, in my mind, out of top tier. He's still probably a high-tier character, but the top tier has a pretty high bar.

 

[Alpha Dash]

Sidebets!!!???

$25 on Rolex

You're on mother****** I'll raise you to $50

I actually like Lego Star Wars...

See I weren't lying.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

**** yeah i love it when people be competitive and have confidence in their abilities as a player instead of taking the meek route. nowadays people are all humble and sensitive to each others feelings and junk with the "I respect ______ as a player and as a person" and even worse the "im pretty good but i think ______ is a better player than me and would probably beat me " pre john. **** outta here with that noise, as competitive gamers people need to stop being so pussyfied. Assert yourself, start a rivalry kick their ass and make them push themselves to be better players.
either way my money's on the american.
FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR$... in monopoly money