To all the Smashers that have chosen not to wavedash, etc...

[JohnPants]

I've been playing Melee since the day it came out, yet I've never attempted to wavedash, shffl, L-cancel, etc. The people I play with don't either...we refrain from using techniques not originally intended to be used and regard them (personally) as exploits. Not in a bad, cheating way (we'd be taking the game too seriously if we looked down on wavedashers), but I do think there's something to be said about playing the game in the way the developers meant it to be played. I think the matches look much nicer as well.

But that's just my opinion. What's yours? Do you wavedash, etc? I've always wondered what % of the community does.

I was reading a topic regarding wavedashing in Brawl and it seems a good amount of people won't play it if wavedashing isn't present (due to, I assume, being so used to wavedashing/other techniques that it wouldn't be fun to go back to "normal play"). I, for one, am glad that I chose not to wavedash for that reason.

To the wavedashers: would you go back to being used to "normal play" if you could snap your fingers and forget the advanced techniques for Brawl? Or do you think playing Melee with them is a good substitute for playing Brawl without them (assuming they aren't there and not being able to pull them off will be a painful experience)?

 

[prettymanfairy]

I agree with you. I look down on it, but am not totally anal about it.

 

[JohnPants]

For me, personally, it doesn't seem as fun or "honorable" if you're using techniques such as, just an example, edgehogging. I see it a lot in youtube videos and it always makes me wince.

I'm glad I'm going into Brawl clean.

 

[Bassoonist]

Do we need another wave-dashing topic?

I know how to do it, but seeing as I never play with friends or go to tournaments I really have no use for it. However I don't have anything against it, and don't look down upon those that do.

 

[red stone]

lol good luck online.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

lol good luck online.

Melee isn't online and there is no proof Brawl will have it (WD)

 

[NES n00b]

I actually do all those things and have more fun with the game. You should give it a try for a little while and see how it goes. =D

More about the subject, fun is subjective so we are all entitled to our opinions about what is fun or not or what looks nicer. To me and many others, pro matches look cooler mostly because it has a faster pace (not to mention the combos :o).

I personally like wavedashing, but I could live without it. I just couldn't use the characters that specifically neeeded it due to them being too nerfed.

Side Note: There is more advance techs then just wavedashing.

 

[Wreked]

I never used any techs either. Why? I didn't know they existed.

I played with friends who didn't have gamecube so they didn't know about them either. And when I did find out about advanced techs, my melee disc was so scratched up that it was unusable. Yeah I could've bought a new one, didn't feel like it. I just thought I could wait until Brawl. And I new that there would be other games to keep me occupied. So I personally wouldn't care that much if wd was taking out. But a part of me wants to try it out.

 

[Kirby knight]

For me, personally, it doesn't seem as fun or "honorable" if you're using techniques such as, just an example, edgehogging. I see it a lot in youtube videos and it always makes me wince.

I'm glad I'm going into Brawl clean.

Oh please... I can see your stance on wavedashing as a somewhat reasonable one but "edgehogging" my gosh give me a freakin break.

I remember when I played Smash with my cousin he'd complain about me edge hogging him and you know what I told him "You know what you can edge hog too if you want". He got over it and started to edge hog me as well.

Lol good luck if you ever face a Metaknight, Pit, or any other person that glides if you refuse to edgeguard....

-Knight

 

[Aryman]

Its fine not to do advanced techs if you're not going to play competitively or against tougher opponents. But if you are, learning the techs are about the only way to take your game to the next level.

I agree that some of the techs seem like "cheating" (WD) or playing dirty (edgehogging) but if you don't do these things you stand at a disadvantage against people who do.

 

[red stone]

i play a mean link. with other characters i wavedash all the time, but link is played differently. there are different advanced techs for him. they can take wavedash, l-cancel, and a whole bunch of other advanced techs out. it won't matter. there will still be other things to learn. there will be people online who will use these to their advantage. there will be massive competition online. if you don't keep up, you will lose to everyone. or if they have a ranking system, you can have "fun" with the other lvl 2's

 

[Sir James]

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not an exploit. That's the way the game's mechanics work. Washdashing was discovered by the game testers before the game's release and it was kept in the game. L-Canceling was in the nintendo 64 version and returned in Melee.

The advanced techniques are there so advanced players can use them. If you want to play at a beginner/novice level, then that is your choice. Using advanced techniques just shows that you are a better player and you play the game to win.

As for Brawl, it doesn't matter to me one bit. If they took it out completely or eliminated the need for advanced techniques I really wouldn't mind. If they stay in the game and you need to use them to advance in skill and competitive play, I'll be using such techniques.

When I play videogames, I play to have fun. Over time, I get better and better from playing them and playing them against other people. That's part of the fun : getting better. I'll be using advanced techniques until there is no longer a need to do so.

 

[awesome]

...we refrain from using techniques not originally intended to be used and regard them (personally) as exploits....I do think there's something to be said about playing the game in the way the developers meant it to be played. I think the matches look much nicer as well.

For me, personally, it doesn't seem as fun or "honorable" if you're using techniques such as, just an example, edgehogging. I see it a lot in youtube videos and it always makes me wince.

That's actually a bit a contradiction; edgehogging was actually something the devs put in. They even give you a bonus for doing it and everything.


On topic, I never used any techniques like wavedashing and L-cancelling because i was quite isolated. and now its just too late for that.

 

[JohnPants]

lol good luck online.

Yeah, I assume I wouldn't be able to do much against an advanced techniquer, but I bet I could learn to adapt.

I actually do all those things and have more fun with the game. You should give it a try for a little while and see how it goes. =D

More about the subject, fun is subjective so we are all entitled to our opinions about what is fun or not or what looks nicer. To me and many others, pro matches look cooler mostly because it has a faster pace (not to mention the combos :o).

I personally like wavedashing, but I could live without it. I just couldn't use the characters that specifically neeeded it due to them being too nerfed.

Side Note: There is more advance techs then just wavedashing.

I guess I was mainly chucking a thinly veiled criticism at the people who will refuse to play Brawl if it doesn't have the advanced techniques (and yeah, I know there are many, many more, but wavedashing is a nice shorthand for the majority of them).

I still haven't personally played against an advanced techniquer, so I can't say how...hostile I would be towards the way they play But I don't mind those who have chosen to explore the game that...extensively, I just wanna know which way the opinion scale tips on this board.

 

[Justin Wiles]

I do wish certain people would remove the stick that is jammed up their rear when it comes to advanced techniques in the game.

If you can beat people without wavedashing, great! Go right ahead. But what's with these topics? Their nothing but condescending to the rest of us. Please get over it and play how you like.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

These Advanced techniques make the character look stupid as hell while doing most of them

 

[ToyzSoldier]

Meh, Mr. Pants, I think your just bringing your ethics to the game. I mean we're not living by the code of the samurai cause back then it was actually immoral to kill people, so its nice to have a code of ethics to spare some lives. But in video games, you're not really killing anyone. Although its still respectable the way you play, and to bring up a good quote, "You are not better than me nor are you worse than me. You do a certain style, I do a certain style. That is all."- NintendoKing

 

[Battousai780]

I love when people say that they play the game the way that the creators intended it to be played. The creators made it for US. They want us to have the most fun we can with the game, and I believe that I have the most fun WITH all the adv techs... for me, I believe the creators intended to me to play that way. I dont want to say that you guys are newbs or anything its just... realize that the creators didnt make the game for just one type of player, that being you.

 

[JohnPants]

Oh please... I can see your stance on wavedashing as a somewhat reasonable one but "edgehogging" my gosh give me a freakin break.
-Knight

I was wrong to classify edgehogging into the same category as wavedashing, but it's definitely playing dirty. I frown upon it and there's nothing you can do about that

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not an exploit. That's the way the game's mechanics work. Washdashing was discovered by the game testers before the game's release and it was kept in the game. L-Canceling was in the nintendo 64 version and returned in Melee.

The advanced techniques are there so advanced players can use them. If you want to play at a beginner/novice level, then that is your choice. Using advanced techniques just shows that you are a better player and you play the game to win.

I still don't buy the argument that the developers meant wavedashing to exist or intended people to play in that manner (many techniques included). There are lines you can draw and I don't feel the same way about every technique, but I bet if the Melee developers saw some modern tournament matches before they released the game they'd be shocked.

It's cool to explore the game to the max and use everything possible against your opponents, but when you're counting frames and memorizing hitboxes, I think that may (in my opinion) be a little much. At least for me...

And I'd **** you up in Melee.

 

[Circus]

I don't wavedash basically because I just don't find it as fun. The few people that I actually play with don't even know what it is, and I don't need it to beat them so there isn't a reason for me to practice with it and learn to use it effectively. Basically, it's just not worth the time and effort to master. In fact, if I got good enough with wavedashing and the like to use them right, my friends would probably stop playing with me. >___>

I don't think there's anything to look down upon though. If anything, I look up to people that use the techs effectively, because they clearly care more about the game than I do.

 

[Sir James]

Yeah, I assume I wouldn't be able to do much against an advanced techniquer, but I bet I could learn to adapt.

Sorry man, but I highly doubt it. I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but this explains why:

I still haven't personally played against an advanced techniquer,

Play an advanced fighter and see how hard it is. If you don't use the techniques yourself, you're in for a whoopin'.

And I'd **** you up in Melee.

lol

 

[DainBramaged]

O.o......advanced techs.... " exploits"...."dosen't seem as fun or "honorable" "

>_>

they take more skill to pull off......if anything, that makes them MORE honorable

also....IMO, matches with advanced techs are much more amusing......skill+fast paced+ combos > " regular play"

 

[bivunit94]

I don't use any advanced techniques. But...that's just 'cause I suck. I play Melee every day, but I'm not good. I CAN wavedash, but when I actually try to implement it into my game, my train of thought just freezes. So yeah, I'm preparing to get pwned repeatedly online in Brawl.

 

[Battousai780]

I don't use any advanced techniques. But...that's just 'cause I suck. I play Melee every day, but I'm not good. I CAN wavedash, but when I actually try to implement it into my game, my train of thought just freezes. So yeah, I'm preparing to get pwned repeatedly online in Brawl.

Maybe you're not good and can't do adv techs because you keep telling yourself that you cant? It isnt that hard, it just takes practice.

 

[Dark-Samus]

wow ur like me i never try to wavedash i feel its like cheating all my friends dont wavedash or edgehog and im proud of it

 

[JohnPants]

Meh, Mr. Pants, I think your just bringing your ethics to the game. I mean we're not living by the code of the samurai

"You are not better than me nor are you worse than me. You do a certain style, I do a certain style. That is all."- NintendoKing

Very true. But I can't help but feel like "playing dirty" makes the game less fun, so maybe there should be some sort of "honor code" in games. I'm not comparing the two at all, but you'd definitely be annoyed by someone wallhacking in Counter-Strike. There is honor in games, as sad as that is.

 

[Wreked]

I love when people say that they play the game the way that the creators intended it to be played. The creators made it for US. They want us to have the most fun we can with the game, and I believe that I have the most fun WITH all the adv techs... for me, I believe the creators intended to me to play that way. I dont want to say that you guys are newbs or anything its just... realize that the creators didnt make the game for just one type of player, that being you.

QFT

I don't see why Sakurai would take techs out of Brawl.
It's not like some ten year old kid is going to say hey, I wonder what's going to happen if jump and right before I hit the ground I air dodge diagonially into the ground.
So by leaving in techs, Sakurai would be making everybody happy. The "hardcore" but keeping their precious techs in. And the casual, they don't even know what Shffl is. They probaly think it's a dance or something.

 

[Kirby knight]

I was wrong to classify edgehogging into the same category as wavedashing, but it's definitely playing dirty. I frown upon it and there's nothing you can do about that

Why is edgehogging playing dirty in your mind? I mean it really doesn't make sense to my why someone would be so adamant against it.

Oh well all anyone has to do is pick Metaknight or Pit and you'd lose to them all the time. Maybe after enough losses you'll change your mind.

-Knight

 

[Battousai780]

Very true. But I can't help but feel like "playing dirty" makes the game less fun, so maybe there should be some sort of "honor code" in games. I'm not comparing the two at all, but you'd definitely be annoyed by someone wallhacking in Counter-Strike. There is honor in games, as sad as that is.

I think its much more fun, since adv techs usually result in ridiculous combos. When I do one against my friend I feel so awesome, and when they pull one off on me I congratulate them. It makes it more interesting. I also like "playing dirty" since I think its funny when Im coming back on the stage and I cant grab the edge. Im just like "DOH!!"

 

[JohnPants]

Sorry man, but I highly doubt it. I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but this explains why:

Play an advanced fighter and see how hard it is. If you don't use the techniques yourself, you're in for a whoopin'.

I mean, I've seen 'em, I know what to expect. And whenever I imagine playing against one, I usually can't get a hit in...however, I've read some topics where advanced techniquers play against people who have only played the game for a bit and have lost (much to their frustration). I'm hoping, if I ever do play against a pro (or the like), that they would be too used to playing against other pros and my play-style would throw them off.

My friend, who plays in the same style as me, went to a convention and, while he lost most of the time, the matches were much closer than you'd think, and he was even complimented for how he used the basic (non-advanced) techniques to pull off some pretty sick ****.

 

[Sir James]

Very true. But I can't help but feel like "playing dirty" makes the game less fun, so maybe there should be some sort of "honor code" in games. I'm not comparing the two at all, but you'd definitely be annoyed by someone wallhacking in Counter-Strike. There is honor in games, as sad as that is.

There pretty much is an honor code in games, but it relates to cheating. Advanced techniques do not = cheating. If I used an action replay on you in Melee...then yea, there should be some honor involved because I would be severly cheating the game. But using advanced combos and techniques in a fighting game? I can't see that as cheating.

 

[Battousai780]

I mean, I've seen 'em, I know what to expect. And whenever I imagine playing against one, I usually can't get a hit in...however, I've read some topics where advanced techniquers play against people who have only played the game for a bit and have lost (much to their frustration). I'm hoping, if I ever do play against a pro (or the like), that they would be too used to playing against other pros and my play-style would throw them off.

My friend, who plays in the same style as me, went to a convention and, while he lost most of the time, the matches were much closer than you'd think, and he was even complimented for how he used the basic (non-advanced) techniques to pull off some pretty sick ****.

If you played anyone who wasnt a ****** you would lose. Also, just because you know what to expect doesnt mean you can always avoid it.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

Melee isn't online

yes it is

though its hard to set up >_>


edit: honestly i just see it as this

you play your way ill play mine

whoever wins does

i mean do u think im supposed to let you get back on the stage for another chance to kill me?

uh...no thanks >_>

if u think edge guarding and edge hogging is cheap go play soul caliber or some crap =O

plus the fact wave dashing is not a glitch,its just taking 2 parts of the game and making them into a useful move that wasnt intended for the game

and stuff like l-canceling..just deal with it,dont be a nub and complain like "ohhh you cheater thats not fair" or some crap lol

 

[Wreked]

Very true. But I can't help but feel like "playing dirty" makes the game less fun.

I think that's so funny. How do you feel dirty.

It's like you and your girlfriend are playing melee and you wavedash. She turns to you and says did..did you just wave dash? Yes, yes I did*in a really sexy voice*. You dirty dirty boy! Bow chicka wah wah.

 

[JohnPants]

Why is edgehogging playing dirty in your mind? I mean it really doesn't make sense to my why someone would be so adamant against it.

Oh well all anyone has to do is pick Metaknight or Pit and you'd lose to them all the time. Maybe after enough losses you'll change your mind.

-Knight

I explained it already...I think it's lame and dirty. It looks lame and dirty too. If you play Smash Bros right, it can look elegant, graceful, and very cool...but stuff like grabbing onto an edge and then continually dropping and reattaching yourself repeatedly is not.

And that Metaknight comment is silly.

I think its much more fun, since adv techs usually result in ridiculous combos. When I do one against my friend I feel so awesome, and when they pull one off on me I congratulate them. It makes it more interesting. I also like "playing dirty" since I think its funny when Im coming back on the stage and I cant grab the edge. Im just like "DOH!!"

Yeah, I'm constantly impressed by youtube videos of some of the combos you guys can pull off, but that's not to say I don't have my own combo situations that are very similar But you're right, the advanced technique play type does allow for...some crazy combo action, definitely

 

[Ixninjax]

I don't know why ppl use the " the way developers intended" argument, it should be obvious that with all the customizable options that they intended for us to play the way that makes us the happiest. It should be noted that most competitive fighting games use some form of play that developers never foresaw. Whether or not they approve of the way we play doesn't matter because we are the one's playing the game, not them. I don't think that removing wavedashing is what worries everybody specifically, it's that developers might remove the depth of the game for the sake of simplicity. That's what us competitive smashers fear.

 

[Kirby knight]

Hmm maybe I should add " your not allowed to be me" to my honor code...

-Knight

 

[JohnPants]

There pretty much is an honor code in games, but it relates to cheating. Advanced techniques do not = cheating. If I used an action replay on you in Melee...then yea, there should be some honor involved because I would be severly cheating the game. But using advanced combos and techniques in a fighting game? I can't see that as cheating.

Yeah, I've tried to avoid, and have avoided, using the word "cheat" in any of these posts. You're right, it's not cheating and shouldn't be regarded as it. I was just defending my "honor" statement.

If you played anyone who wasnt a ****** you would lose. Also, just because you know what to expect doesnt mean you can always avoid it.

Maybe. I'll let you know.

I think that's so funny. How do you feel dirty.

It's like you and your girlfriend are playing melee and you wavedash. She turns to you and says did..did you just wave dash? Yes, yes I did*in a really sexy voice*. You dirty dirty boy! Bow chicka wah wah.

 

[Salaad]

Before I even knew about Adv. Techs, Melee was getting REALLY dusty. It wasn't any fun for me. After I learned there was more depth, I really got into Melee. Adv. Teachs FTW.

 

[Doggalina]

lol, honor